Gun Talk - News, Laws, etc.

[DigitalChaos]

Actually, it's not. If we had less laws and more actual darwinism, that kid is the fittest. We'd all be toast.

And on a more serious note: I'm disliking your tendency to spin 'personal responsibility' as 'it's their own fault'.

it's not 100% perfect darwinism, but it's still darwinism. You don't have to be entirely eliminated from contributing to future life, just statistically impacted from doing so. The mother is no longer contributing additional children or parenting techniques. That child has massively limited his chances of doing either of those in the future as well.



Kid has intermittent explosive disorder
Kid has threatened to kill his mother but wasn't taken seriously
mother buys him a gun when he was 11
apparently gives him unrestricted access to the gun and ammunition
they buy him an incredibly violent game (rated for 18+)

They take away his game... his response is to try and rape his mother and then kill her.


Just think about the above for a second....

[DigitalChaos]

and here is a horribly tasteless joke for anyone who's played COD: Spoiler: the kid just wanted the ultimate comeback to the "i fucked your mother" comments that happen every 10 seconds

[Jinsai]

Wayne LaPierre wants to know "how many Bostonions wished they had a gun two weeks ago"

WHAT?!

[Elke]

Kid has intermittent explosive disorder
Kid has threatened to kill his mother but wasn't taken seriously
mother buys him a gun when he was 11
apparently gives him unrestricted access to the gun and ammunition
they buy him an incredibly violent game (rated for 18+)

They take away his game... his response is to try and rape his mother and then kill her.

I hope you're not basing this analysis of that Daily Mail tripe. In the Universe of the Sidebar of Shame, everybody's either an evil gay immigrant, or about to be raped and murdered by one.

But let me rephrase what you wrote, however inaccurate it probably is: a child is born with a brain deficiancy that makes him extremely unlikeable and difficult to raise, and a possibly incompetent but more likely poorly informed parent tries to pacify this child by giving it what it wants so it doesn't explode. This results in said child engaging in activities that make its condition worse, not better, and the death of its mother.

Recently, there was a highly mediatized trial in Belgium, where an adolescent was convicted for killing a number of toddlers and a caregiver, as well as a random old woman, in a killing spree. His parents had been begging for help since he was prepubescent, but he was never committed - as he should have been. He wasn't deemed mentally unfit to stand trial, or insane, and so he was convicted for several counts of murder.

There is plenty of blame to go around, and plenty of people who are not doing what they should do. The guilt in both these cases is not individual: these are not just two children doing something awful, they are products of this society. Personal responsibility is an extremely important concept, but it has to be tempered with a proper understanding of all the factors involved.

In other words: it's far too easy to mock these people and award them a Darwin award (which I still disagree with, btw), and disregard every person in this child's life who somehow, at some point, failed him.

[Satyr]

Wayne LaPierre wants to know "how many Bostonions wished they had a gun two weeks ago"

WHAT?!

If there were two heavily armed terrorists going around my home town blowing shit up and shooting at cops....I'd probably prefer to have a firearm than not?

[Elke]

And what you have done with it?

[DF118]

If there were two heavily armed terrorists going around my home town blowing shit up and shooting at cops....I'd probably prefer to have a firearm than not?

Go you, Rambo.

[Satyr]

And what you have done with it?

If they broke into my home while evading police....I'd consider shooting them?

[Satyr]

[Jinsai]

so, what the fuck am I supposed to be seeing in that picture exactly?

[Elke]

It looks like a big-ass fly. One would need a firearm to kill that, as well, I suppose.

[DF118]

It's Satyr going all John McClane.

[Satyr]

so, what the fuck am I supposed to be seeing in that picture exactly?

A person in an apartment building taking pictures of two terrorists shooting at police. The item in the red circle is the third pressure cooker bomb.

[Dra508]

Wayne LaPierre wants to know "how many Bostonions wished they had a gun two weeks ago"

WHAT?!

A gun in my hand would not have stopped a kid from putting a bomb on a busy sidewalk.

A gun in my hand would not have found the kid in a boat.

A gun in my hand would not have prevented or shortened this tragedy.

LaPierre is an idiot.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mike-w...b_3219807.html

What he said..

[DigitalChaos]

I love how people are mocking the "boston people which they had a gun" comment...
The biggest instance where this is true is during the lockdown and manhunt.

Here is a heavy libertarian interviewing his very liberal leaning brother who was one of the people in "ground zero" and got pulled out of his house:
http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/gr...massachusetts/
"I would have felt better if I had a weapon and been trained to use it"

[Jinsai]

I love how people are mocking the "boston people which they had a gun" comment...
The biggest instance where this is true is during the lockdown and manhunt.

Here is a heavy libertarian interviewing his very liberal leaning brother who was one of the people in "ground zero" and got pulled out of his house:
http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/gr...massachusetts/
"I would have felt better if I had a weapon and been trained to use it"

I'm not visiting a website with the word "libertarian" in the url.

The "Boston people wish they had a gun" comment is stupid for a lot of reasons, not least of which is that it is not illegal to own a gun in Boston
We could go into a further discussion about how owning a gun would not have protected anyone from being blown up by a bomb, and since there was no home invasion situation here where anyone could have actually defended themselves, the sentiment is really just gun-obsessed fantasy talk... but why bother when there is no law prohibiting the possession of a gun in the first place?

Wayne LaPierre's statement is sensationalism cashing in on a recent disaster, and it's more than a little ridiculous that it hardly even applies to a discussion about gun ownership. What makes it worse is the transparent hypocrisy of this asshole. In the same speech he admonishes the people lobbying for gun control for exploiting the Newtown shooting, and then he moves right along to exploit a recent tragedy to further his own agenda, even though it makes no sense.

[Satyr]

I'm not visiting a website with the word "libertarian" in the url.

The "Boston people wish they had a gun" comment is stupid for a lot of reasons, not least of which is that it is not illegal to own a gun in Boston
We could go into a further discussion about how owning a gun would not have protected anyone from being blown up by a bomb, and since there was no home invasion situation here where anyone could have actually defended themselves, the sentiment is really just gun-obsessed fantasy talk... but why bother when there is no law prohibiting the possession of a gun in the first place?

Wayne LaPierre's statement is sensationalism cashing in on a recent disaster, and it's more than a little ridiculous that it hardly even applies to a discussion about gun ownership. What makes it worse is the transparent hypocrisy of this asshole. In the same speech he admonishes the people lobbying for gun control for exploiting the Newtown shooting, and then he moves right along to exploit a recent tragedy to further his own agenda, even though it makes no sense.

You guys can call him an asshole idiot all you want. As long as he continues to do a great job defending 2A rights. I love the guy.

Continue to spew all the venom you want at him. It just serves to make the pro 2A crowd not want to compromise at all.

[allegro]

we don't need anybody to defend 2A rights. I know you THINK we do, because you don't know law and because people have convinced you that we do (based on unwarranted fear dished out by people who take advantage of people like you). Like @Jinsai said, there is no reason why everybody in Boston didn't have a gun and didn't shoot at those guys, nothing prevented that; but, they didn't. These opportunistic attention whores like LaPierre will spin anything to get attention. It's nothing more than sensationalism. Guns or 2nd Amendment rights have NOTHING to do with the Boston Marathon bombers.

What IS important is the FBI's complete lack of intelligence relating to this plot. They'd been warned, they dropped the ball. Also, fuck the guns; why did Boston citizens get placed on a lockdown, which ended up thwarting the attempt to find these guys? It wasn't until the lockdown was lifted that somebody noticed the bleeding dude in the boat. If you want to go all Libertarian on this shit, then ponder THAT shit. There were some serious civil rights violations, there.

[DigitalChaos]

This will be interesting...
An outspoken libertarian is trying to organize an armed march in DC (where it is illegal) with at least 1000 people: https://www.facebook.com/events/252728144871259/
At the time of this post, there are 2400 people who claim they will attend.

And it sure is creating a lot of drama in the libertarian circles: http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/is...a-for-liberty/

[Jinsai]

So courageous.

Whatever. Anyone who has actually used Facebook knows how much that attendance number means. Maybe twenty people will show up and be promptly arrested, and the rest of the world can go back to not giving a fuck.

[DigitalChaos]

So courageous.

Whatever. Anyone who has actually used Facebook knows how much that attendance number means. Maybe twenty people will show up and be promptly arrested, and the rest of the world can go back to not giving a fuck.

You kidding me? A small army of armed people marching DC could become a wet-dream for the gun-control people. It might actually breath life into the shriveled abortion that they already threw on the table. Worst case, you charge all of the people willing to do this with a felony and take away their access to guns.

I sympathize with them and their anger but this just seems like a bad idea that will result in the opposite of what they would like. They are going to need way more than 1000 people for this to have a chance to turn out positively for them. Maybe I am wrong... I just looked at their map and plan and they might actually be pull something off (who knows how the media will spin it though). It seems (without verifying legal boundaries) that they are marching through a "legal" area and stopping short of the "illegal" area. The leader plans to step over to test the waters. Maybe... just maybe... but they also just showed their entire hand to the DC law enforcement who knows exactly what they will do.

[miss k bee]

I cant believe they have children guns in America. Available in light pink and light blue, specially sized. Was reading an article at work where a 5 year old boy accidently shot his 3 year old sister. He had gun training. ffs

[DigitalChaos]

I cant believe they have children guns in America. Available in light pink and light blue, specially sized. Was reading an article at work where a 5 year old boy accidently shot his 3 year old sister. He had gun training. ffs

On one extreme side, you have people who are not very responsible. On the other side, you have people who are so over the top with safety that they produce poorly adapted children.

A gun is a tool. You teach it, you respect it. Pretending that they don't exist hinges on the naive concept that you can also control their entire world.

They made a book for people like you: http://www.fiftydangerousthings.com/

There are tons of kids who are given guns designed for children. It's a great way to start the learning process. Very few of them have issues (probably due to more responsible parenting).


You probably think it is insane to give a toddler a knife but there are plenty of cultures who do just that:

[Sutekh]

Yeah but is your culture as a whole capable of consistently producing kids with a well adjusted attitude to weapons?

You can't reject the UK gun control model because it's from a different state and then cite other culture's successes with dangerous objects. Well you can - but either you do or you don't!

[DigitalChaos]

Yeah but is your culture as a whole capable of consistently producing kids with a well adjusted attitude to weapons?

You can't reject the UK gun control model because it's from a different state and then cite other culture's successes with dangerous objects. Well you can - but either you do or you don't!

considering the incident rate is fractions of fractions of a percent... yes
Who knows how long that will last. We have a growing problem with individual responsibility falling out of popularity.

[Sutekh]

The incident rate may be fractions of fractions of a percent, - but why are you suggesting it doesn't signify a problem? It's still anomalously higher than other Western states. Your country does have a problem & it will do no good to phrase things in a way that plays it down

For the record I'm not anti-private ownership of deadly weapons, but kids don't need to know IMO. I know it's awful when Euros tell you what your problem is, but playing down the dangers of weapons is IMO part of the problem

[allegro]

"Children's Guns" are only for hunting, since children cannot legally own anything except a single-shot rifle. In rural areas, children go hunting with their parents. It's often for necessity, as they EAT what the hunt. In rural areas, this is viewed no differently than a fishing pole. Some children learn how to bow-hunt instead of hunting with a rifle.



@DigitalChaos : That march seems kinda impotent, since DC's "strict gun laws" ended with the Heller decision. Seems like stirring up the pot just to have fun, to me. While it's bullshit that this guy was allegedly arrested for "dancing in public," this seems more like a personal vendetta than a real issue. Concealed carry is of course a real issue but this isn't the way to get it done. MOST states have conceal carry laws, handed down by Federal appellate courts.

For the record: I am actually FOR concealed carry laws, for what it's worth.

[DigitalChaos]

The incident rate may be fractions of fractions of a percent, - but why are you suggesting it doesn't signify a problem? It's still anomalously higher than other Western states. Your country does have a problem & it will do no good to phrase things in a way that plays it down

For the record I'm not anti-private ownership of deadly weapons, but kids don't need to know IMO. I know it's awful when Euros tell you what your problem is, but playing down the dangers of weapons is IMO part of the problem

What @allegro just said but also: What is this "incident rate" you are referring to as it concerns children being given guns? Guessing you are lumping together the entire "gun problem" to make your point. I'd be willing to bet that kids who grow up with guns are much more likely to NOT become a statistic than gun owners who didn't grow up with them.

[allegro]

I'd be willing to bet that kids who grow up with guns are much more likely to become a statistic than gun owners who didn't grow up with them.

Wait, what?

My ex husband owned guns and my former step-children grew up with those guns. He took them to the firing range and had them fire the guns and taught them gun safety when they were young and they knew the guns were forbidden territory and messing with them came with dire consequences (the wrath of my ex husband was no light matter). And they fully understood that guns were dangerous and were to be respected, just like my ex-husband's motorcycles. And the kids grew up to have zero interest in guns. One of them became a doctor. It seems to me that the kids who happen upon a gun and shoot some other kid in the house with the gun or take the gun to Show-n-Tell in school weren't taught about guns? They don't know the difference between a real gun and a toy? That being said, hunting accidents happen all the time. The 5-yr-old who shot another kid isn't much different than other hunting accidents. But, neither is it much different than the thousands of children who are killed each year when their own parent runs them over with the car in the driveway. It's sad, sure. But, shit happens. If that 5-yr-old went to gun safety classes and still shot his sister, that kid was - sadly - not ready for hunting. I think FIVE is way too young for that shit but I don't live in the sticks and I don't hunt for food so don't ask me.

[DigitalChaos]

@DigitalChaos: That march seems kinda impotent, since DC's "strict gun laws" ended with the Heller decision. Seems like stirring up the pot just to have fun, to me. While it's bullshit that this guy was allegedly arrested for "dancing in public," this seems more like a personal vendetta than a real issue. Concealed carry is of course a real issue but this isn't the way to get it done. MOST states have conceal carry laws, handed down by Federal appellate courts.

For the record: I am actually FOR concealed carry laws, for what it's worth.

The guy isn't even from DC (nor are most attendees). It is definitely to draw attention. Its more of a national statement of "we wont give them up." I can sympathize with civil disobedience and extending as many middle fingers to authority but... chances of a net-positive seem slim.

I wish California had better CCW laws. Unless you live in a rural area you are out of luck. Such is the plight of a libertarian who lives around San Francisco