Trans Rights

[sick among the pure]

If you've identified as a woman since you were a child then this 3 year wait should not be a problem, I believe in some safeguards to help protect TRANS-CURIOS people from making the wrong decision.

no. Just flat out fucking no. Just because people who are uninformed and unaffected think we should have to wait multiple years after a diagnosis to be allowed to start treatment doesn’t mean it’s a good stance. What do medical professionals with DECADES of research, study, and a much fuller understanding of the situation than you somehow have wrong? Oh that’s right, they’re trying to actually help us, not eradicate us. That’s what they have wrong.

Listen, I know you know yourself and your medical needs more than I do, but I think you should wait 3 years to get that medicine. I think you should wait 3 years after a diagnosis to get that growth removed. I think you should wait 3 years to get those corrective eye lenses. I think you should wait 3 years to get that filling. I think you should have to wait 3 years to get that tattoo. To get that piercing. To wear that shirt. To go to that concert. To buy a car. I think you should have to wait 3 years to do literally anything with your own life. Because I don’t like the idea of it.
That’s what this argument of “if you really do need this, you can just wait a few more years!”

[theruiner]

If you've identified as a woman since you were a child then this 3 year wait should not be a problem

Fuck off into the sun

[decadent]

When I see how unstable and hysterical some of the replies in this thread are 3 years really seems like a good period. To calm down and get a little bit of perspective.

[theruiner]

Your attempt at trolling is really pathetic

[sweeterthan]

When I see how unstable and hysterical some of the replies in this thread are 3 years really seems like a good period. To calm down and get a little bit of perspective.

hey there @decadent , this comment isn’t supportive or even necessary to the discussion. i would rethink posting in this thread if this is all you have to offer.

[decadent]

hey there @decadent , this comment isn’t supportive or even necessary to the discussion. i would rethink posting in this thread if this is all you have to offer.

Hey there, I am not sure why you are picking on me here.

You call this discussion:

Fuck off into the sun

And also in the same discussion someone is comparing changing your gender through surgery to getting a tooth filling or eye correction.

I mean seriously?

snaapz and I are arguing that 3 years are not too long for such a life changing decision.

Some people here are saying waiting 3 years is genocide and sharing hysterical tweets. This is what I mean with unstable and hysterical.

Did all of you know what you want in life when you were for example 14 years old? Looking back now, is it the same things that you imagined now? Some people here want to make it possible the teenagers to make such a huge decision immediately, no wating, lets just go for it. We have here some total extremism and there is no discussion from these same people that claim to be for freedom etc. Just attacks and hate towards me, snaapz and whoever dares to have a critical thought.

[cdm]

Please spare a thought for the stupid uneducated ignorant fucks out there wanting to legislate the lives of other people based on feels. So yes, really, fuck off into the sun.

[theruiner]

Hey Decadent? We don't owe bigots discussion or debate. Fuck off.

[Toadflax]

Did all of you know what you want in life when you were for example 14 years old? Looking back now, is it the same things that you imagined now? Some people here want to make it possible the teenagers to make such a huge decision immediately, no wating, lets just go for it. We have here some total extremism and there is no discussion from these same people that claim to be for freedom etc. Just attacks and hate towards me, snaapz and whoever dares to have a critical thought.

Answer me this simple question: why do you think you (or I) should get to have any say whatsoever in how someone else lives their life?

[sick among the pure]

When I see how unstable and hysterical some of the replies in this thread are 3 years really seems like a good period. To calm down and get a little bit of perspective.

Hey bud, fuck off into the sun.

[BRoswell]

I'm not trans, but I have friends who are, and unless you've seen the physical and psychological toll that gender dysphoria can have on a person, you don't get to lecture people on what an appropriate amount of time is for gender affirmation care. Saying someone should wait three years is basically the equivalent of shrugging your shoulders and saying "you'll get over it".

[sweeterthan]

Hey there, I am not sure why you are picking on me here.

You call this discussion:



And also in the same discussion someone is comparing changing your gender through surgery to getting a tooth filling or eye correction.

I mean seriously?

snaapz and I are arguing that 3 years are not too long for such a life changing decision.

Some people here are saying waiting 3 years is genocide and sharing hysterical tweets. This is what I mean with unstable and hysterical.

Did all of you know what you want in life when you were for example 14 years old? Looking back now, is it the same things that you imagined now? Some people here want to make it possible the teenagers to make such a huge decision immediately, no wating, lets just go for it. We have here some total extremism and there is no discussion from these same people that claim to be for freedom etc. Just attacks and hate towards me, snaapz and whoever dares to have a critical thought.

I wasn't talking about any other posts in thread but the one of yours I quoted. no one has attacked you but there are a few people in this thread who are sick of your backhanded insults that you're posting as opinion. your post is an ad hominem attack and yeah I have no problem with them telling you to fuck off. especially since you can't seem to find your lane without being demeaning. Maybe that's not your intent but you directly called people in this thread "hysterical" about the topic at hand.

[Swykk]

@decadent and @snaapz : You aren’t allies. You’re transphobic.

And now you’re on my ignore list. Your continued nonsensical harassment is unacceptable. Your inability to read the helpful advice provided here speaks volumes. Get lost.

[decadent]

Answer me this simple question: why do you think you (or I) should get to have any say whatsoever in how someone else lives their life?

Where do you see me having a say how others should live their life? I am asking questions and discussing why the mentioned period could make sense in some cases. Where do you see me critisizing how people here or eslewhere should live their lives?

[eversonpoe]

When I see how unstable and hysterical some of the replies in this thread are 3 years really seems like a good period. To calm down and get a little bit of perspective.

Where do you see me having a say how others should live their life? I am asking questions and discussing why the mentioned period could make sense in some cases. Where do you see me critisizing how people here or eslewhere should live their lives?

uh...see your first quoted post?

you have literally contributed NOTHING to the discussion other than insults toward me and the trans community, as well as to those in here standing up for us. you have repeatedly spouted thinly veiled transphobic rhetoric and treated this issue of LITERAL LIFE AND DEATH as a trivial matter on which people WHO AREN'T TRANS OR MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS should have an opinion for some reason.

so i'm going to ask the same of you that i asked of snaapz, and that's to leave this thread. this is a place for SUPPORTING trans people, not questioning us. there is no debate to be had. you either think we deserve rights or you don't, and the fact that you can't understand that there are people calling for our extermination SIMPLY FOR EXISTING is abhorrent. please leave.

[eversonpoe]

This video appropriately came out yesterday. It talks about Anita Bryant, a woman who was championed and then finally ostracized for telling gay people they could be gay as long as it wasn't at anyone—and how that's exactly what is happening to trans people today.

It also talks about the motte-and-bailey argument, which is when someone says something fairly innocuous and then layers another argument on top that's far harder to defend. Then, when challenged on the second argument, they instead fall back on the first one as if that's all they were saying.

I don't know why, but it seemed appropriate to share...

there's some good stuff in here but there's also some iffy stuff. there's been a lot of talk about it on "trans twitter"

[Toadflax]

Where do you see me having a say how others should live their life? I am asking questions and discussing why the mentioned period could make sense in some cases. Where do you see me critisizing how people here or eslewhere should live their lives?

Um, in the post I directly quoted where you support a 3 year waiting period for gender reassignment. And in the previous post where you said people who are seeking reassignment should take 3 years "to calm down."

Also in the sports discussion from the other day where instead of suggesting ways in which trans people could compete in competitive sports, you heavily suggested that they shouldn't be allowed to participate full stop. Your words: "So you all honestly believe that it is fair that trans women should participate in womens sport even though they have an advantage as proven by two different scientific researches?" These are exclusionary words, not inclusionary ones. And to be clear, the point here is not to rehash the advantage thing; it's that you came from a place of keeping trans people out of sports (read: having a say in how other people live their lives). You could have made your case about advantages and then suggested ways to address it, i.e. using body type / physicality to determine athletic classes instead of gender, but instead you posted 10+ posts focusing exclusively on why trans people should be kept out of sports.

Again, I don't think it's valuable to go down the sports rabbit hole again. I just want you to see from our perspective why your posts have been hurtful to some of us on here. You've shown very little support of the trans community, instead taking the side of people in a restaurant having a transphobic conversation loud enough for other people to hear, suggesting trans people shouldn't play sports without offering ways in which they might be included, telling people seeking reassignment they need to "calm down" and wait 3 years, etc. Do you see how every one of your posts has either been negative or dismissive towards the trans community?

[Toadflax]

there's some good stuff in here but there's also some iffy stuff. there's been a lot of talk about it on "trans twitter"

Interesting! I was specifically just citing those two examples as being reflective of the behavior of certain people in this thread.

I also hadn't watched the whole video yet, but I have now. I'm curious about what the iffy stuff is if you don't mind sharing.

[eversonpoe]

Interesting! I was specifically just citing those two examples as being reflective of the behavior of certain people in this thread.

I also hadn't watched the whole video yet, but I have now. I'm curious about what the iffy stuff is if you don't mind sharing.

suggesting taking koffler down (who honestly has very little reach/influence) but to "just block" rowling is a weird stance, people are freaking out about her criticizing vaush (i don't even know who that is, really), idunno. overall it's a great video with a LOT of good info and points. i personally don't really have a problem with it other than that first bit about koffler/rowling.

[snaapz]

Fuck off into the sun

If you've identified as a woman since you were a child then this 3 year wait should not be a problem

What I mean is the 3 year requirement has already been met since nearly all transgender people have been this way since they were born. It's very common in the community for people to say "I've been this way since I was 4 years old". If you have never raised this with your family doctor or a therapist then yes, it might be difficult to "ensure" with documentation. But my point is that TGs have far exceeded this 3 year requirement.


(C)Fails to ensure that,for at least the 3 most recent consecutive years,the patienthas exhibited a medically documented, long-lasting, persistentand intense pattern of gender dysphoria


Seriously the volume of abuse I get here is unreal.

You want me dead now and everyone likes that? (f off into the sun) --> sweeterthan, cdm, sick among the pure, Swykk, eversonpoe and 1 others liked this post

[BRoswell]

Why is everyone so angry and defensive?

Maybe because you keep telling everyone how much you support trans people, yet you keep bringing up transphobic talking points? Paradoxes tend to frustrate people.

[snaapz]

Maybe because you keep telling everyone how much you support trans people, yet you keep bringing up transphobic talking points? Paradoxes tend to frustrate people.

Trans Rights are the discussion here, I'm responding to posts and highlighting some of the reasons why things are happening. Such as safeguards before certain treatment is given, and why books are banned from some libraries.

My argument is that things are getting much worse and if they continue down this path then support and acceptance will continue to get worse and worse. I never said give up, i said let the dust settle and reexamine.

For example, some CIS women have a problem with sharing a change room for sports and being forced to undress with a person who has a penis. Based on feedback here the approach is to keep fighting and never give an inch. My suggestion is to pause and think of other solutions.

I said some TG wear tampons in their anus, it's true. Why are people angry at me for mentioning it? Be proud of TGs who choose to experiment and do whatever it takes to fulfill their gender dysphoria.

[eversonpoe]

If you've identified as a woman since you were a child then this 3 year wait should not be a problem

What I mean is the 3 year requirement has already been met since nearly all transgender people have been this way since they were born. It's very common in the community for people to say "I've been this way since I was 4 years old". If you have never raised this with your family doctor or a therapist then yes, it might be difficult to "ensure" with documentation. But my point is that TGs have far exceeded this 3 year requirement.


(C)Fails to ensure that,for at least the 3 most recent consecutive years,the patienthas exhibited a medically documented, long-lasting, persistentand intense pattern of gender dysphoria


Seriously the volume of abuse I get here is unreal.

You want me dead now and everyone likes that? (f off into the sun) --> sweeterthan, cdm, sick among the pure, Swykk, eversonpoe and 1 others liked this post

the volume of hate and abuse you get here...you mean the valid criticisms people are leveling at you for being a hypocrite and spouting transphobic rhetoric?

how about the ACTUAL death threats i've gotten for over 20 years, the harrassment i suffer nearly every day on public transit, the very real fear i have of being MURDERED if i go anywhere alone right now? do you have ZERO empathy? people talking to you with frustration because you are speaking (falsely) about issues on which you have NO AUTHORITY TO SPEAK is NOT abuse.

the three year requirement to which you're referring depends on a LOT of factors, and it's not something that can just be universally applied to all trans people and have it not be a big deal.

also, do you have ANY idea how many trans adults there are who don't come out in any way until their 30s? 40s? even 50s?

i knew i was trans when i was 8, finally had the language for it when i was 14, but didn't actually DO anything about it until my mid-30s because i was stuck in one abusive relationship after another. if i'd had to wait ANOTHER three years after finally ending my marriage before being able to begin medical transition, i wouldn't be able to start until NEXT SPRING. and if that were the case, i would likely be dead, because the dysphoria that i was experiencing every day, and the lack of support that i was receiving from my ex-wife was so devastating, that i didn't want to live like that.

THAT is what you are arguing for, and THAT is why we are (rightly) calling you transphobic.

also, you have been asked to leave MULTIPLE TIMES. if you feel you are being "abused" in this thread, WHY ARE YOU HERE?

[BRoswell]

Your ignorance and lack of empathy is not everyone's problem to solve. It's YOUR problem, and it's one that you don't seem to have any interest in solving.

And why do you keep bringing up the tampon thing? Who gives a damn what someone does with their own asshole so long as it's not hurting anyone?

[cdm]

You want me dead now and everyone likes that? (f off into the sun) --> sweeterthan, cdm, sick among the pure, Swykk, eversonpoe and 1 others liked this post

I have you ignored but since you tagged me...it's called hyperbole. I'd settle for you just leaving and never coming back. Stop acting like you're a victim. You're not a victim, you're an asshole.

[eversonpoe]

Trans Rights are the discussion here, I'm responding to posts and highlighting some of the reasons why things are happening. Such as safeguards before certain treatment is given, and why books are banned from some libraries.

My argument is that things are getting much worse and if they continue down this path then support and acceptance will continue to get worse and worse. I never said give up, i said let the dust settle and reexamine.

For example, some CIS women have a problem with sharing a change room for sports and being forced to undress with a person who has a penis. Based on feedback here the approach is to keep fighting and never give an inch. My suggestion is to pause and think of other solutions.

I said some TG wear tampons in their anus, it's true. Why are people angry at me for mentioning it? Be proud of TGs who choose to experiment and do whatever it takes to fulfill their gender dysphoria.

is "TGs" short for "transgenders"? because if so, that's a fucking slur. i'm not "a transgender" i'm a "transgender woman" which can be shortened to "trans woman" but don't call me "a TG"

second, NO, trans women do NOT "wear tampons in their anus[es]", that is fear-mongering misinformation. if a trans woman who has not had bottom surgery has tampons in her purse, it's so that if someone who menstruates needs one, she can help out.

and yeah, you keep repeating the same thing about "things are getting worse" but not realizing that they're getting worse BECAUSE OF TRANSPHOBES, NOT BECAUSE OF TRANS PEOPLE.

the "dust" that needs to "settle" is blatant fascism, and if we let that take even greater root, we are literally going to be exterminated.

[sweeterthan]

I said some TG wear tampons in their anus, it's true. Why are people angry at me for mentioning it? Be proud of TGs who choose to experiment and do whatever it takes to fulfill their gender dysphoria.

you tried to clarify what you were saying in your previous post in a way that almost seemed genuine but then you post this. i have no idea why you keep bringing this up. no one else is talking about this except you. you just brought it up again. what does anyone sticking anything in their bum have to do with being nice to people who don’t fit into one of two checkboxes? i’m seriously at a loss as to why you brought this up again like it has any validity.

[sick among the pure]

If you've identified as a woman since you were a child then this 3 year wait should not be a problem

What I mean is the 3 year requirement has already been met since nearly all transgender people have been this way since they were born.

Even if that is genuinely what you mean (and it’s doubtful as hell after what all else you’ve been saying, but benefit of the doubt to explain why this is a problem) and you believe “oh, you’ve known since you were a young child, that totally meets the 3y criteria!” the problem is that’s only your interpretation and not what is actually being pushed as law.
When I finally came out as trans and started seeing the multiple medical professionals (both physical and psych) about it, there was a one year rule. Knowing since I was a kid, having distinct memories of moments linked to it, having “dressed” the part most my life without the label attached… that doesn’t mean anything toward the one year. The medical gatekeeping we ALREADY FACE is extreme, but yeah I had to go through another year after I began seeing professionals before I could do much more than “socially transition” (which is really all that minors are able to do, but I was in my mid 20’s). The three year period is AFTER diagnosis. It’s an arbitrary pause on treatment, with cruelty as the only reasoning behind it. They hope we die, one way or the other, or face loss of insurance due to loss of job it’s tied to due to legislation they’re trying to pass to make it legal to refuse hiring or fire someone for being trans. It’s something that some centrists will think is just reasonable enough they can get it passed (alongside those who want active harm against the community already supporting such legislature). It started with just kids can’t get medical treatment. It moved very quickly to adults, after 3 years. What benchmark you think they’ll push next? Because they’re not going to stop. If you genuinely can’t see the attempts at eradicating trans people, especially after this fucking political party stood together behind a speech that actively called for it in those very terms, then that’s on you.

[eversonpoe]

I can't stop laughing at the phrase "fulfill their gender dysphoria" and how it shows a fundamental lack of understanding around anything having to do with the trans community. dysphoria is not something you fulfill, it's something you attempt to eliminate, or at least minimize.

[marodi]

Trans Rights are the discussion here, I'm responding to posts and highlighting some of the reasons why things are happening. Such as safeguards before certain treatment is given, and why books are banned from some libraries.

My argument is that things are getting much worse and if they continue down this path then support and acceptance will continue to get worse and worse. I never said give up, i said let the dust settle and reexamine.

For example, some CIS women have a problem with sharing a change room for sports and being forced to undress with a person who has a penis. Based on feedback here the approach is to keep fighting and never give an inch. My suggestion is to pause and think of other solutions.

I said some TG wear tampons in their anus, it's true. Why are people angry at me for mentioning it? Be proud of TGs who choose to experiment and do whatever it takes to fulfill their gender dysphoria.

That's it, I just can't anymore.

First: I am a CIS woman and I'd rather undress in a changing room full of trans women (with penis or without) than in a room full of other CIS women. Ever seen Carrie? Go watch that shower scene again.

Second: you want to know why people are angry at you for the stuff you're mentioning? It's because it looks like you are doing your best to get the most extreme examples to support you points. Before you started posting in this thread, I've never heard about trans people putting tampons in their anus. As a CIS woman who had to deal with tampons for a couple decades, I can tell you that they are a bitch to wear in a vagina; they don't just slide in there by themselves. They are irritating and highly annoying. I freaking celebrate when I had a hysterectomy at 33. SCREW YOU, TAMPONS!!! But if some people want to wear them in their anus... good for them; it's a free world.

Another example you brought was a trans person saying: "I'm your Daddy, you came from my tummy." Tell me, since I am a CIS woman, was this supposed to offend me? Because it didn't. Why would it? It doesn't take anything away from me. Why should I care?

I guess the real question I have is this: do these fringe examples bother you? I think they do more than you let on.

Hi! My name is marodi. My pronouns are she/her. I am a CIS woman and I am proud of my trans friends. And I will fight with them and for them against everything.