Charlie Rose: https://www.washingtonpost.com/inves...=.efb1770c8c3d
Charlie Rose: https://www.washingtonpost.com/inves...=.efb1770c8c3d
This is just endless now. I don't know who's next tomorrow. It could be anybody.
Gene Simmons, surprise surprise, tried to get someone to grab his penis. He also allegedly claimed that he had done that to other women before. What he allegedly said to the second woman does not surprise me at all. Simmons is a Trump supporter, so Fox News banning him pretty much solidifies this as legit.
http://www.metalinjection.net/metal-...ual-harassment
I work with a lot of people who have done KISS tours through the decades. I could fill an entire separate thread on the things I've heard about him from people who have worked either for him directly or had encounters with him while working with the band. It makes me sad that people like that EVER achieve success in the first place while decent people live in abject poverty. It really is depressing beyond words to me.
I was a GIANT Kiss fan in the 70s, and this is NO surprise at all. If you look up "misogynist dick" in the dictionary, Gene's picture is in there.
I watched "Family Jewels" and even his long-suffering GF (now wife, I guess) Shannon Tweed LEFT him for his shit, and his KIDS were really pissed at him. He is NOTORIOUS for VOLUMES of photos of his female conquests, he has ZERO respect for women.
Exhibit A is his NPR Terry Gross interview.
Paul Stanley: "I can see Gene's ego from my house!"
Gene is like a perpetual 7th Grader with a boner and a wig.
Last edited by allegro; 11-20-2017 at 09:32 PM.
Wow, I'm totally surprised..... LMAO..... who didn't see this coming? Of course I knew all of his shenanigans with women was going to finally catch up with him. He is the poster-child of misogyny. Shit, I'd bet you if someone did a sex tape with his daughter. He'd find a way to make money off of that. He is an immoral piece of shit.
a little perspective AL frankin accused by three women asked to resign Trump accused by 16 women
-Louie
And Trump has threatened to SUE all of them, hence why we aren’t hearing from them, anymore (and Trump isn’t suing them, probably because depositions would make things worse).
A Senator hasn’t resigned in over 100 years.
Senator John McCain was one of the Keating Five and he didn’t resign.
It pisses me off that these assholes keep doing whatever they want, but I’m not sure what the “punishment” should be.
Resigning usually means that NOTHING happens to them.
Last edited by allegro; 11-20-2017 at 11:18 PM.
Last edited by allegro; 11-20-2017 at 11:14 PM.
Dear god. Charlie fucking rose?
^The thing about that is that I've sometimes seen people argue that this shit is "natural," and that assertion usually comes packaged with the logical fallacy that everything which is supposedly "natural" is automatically moral or at the very least something that needs to accepted as an unchanging fact of life.
If there's one thing that concerns me about the whole me too movement and all this post Weinstein stuff, it's that this will inadvertently flip things back to being "just how things are." I mean, if it's like 70% of men do this shit (not just rape, but stuff like Franken), then I almost wonder if it'll become a strength in numbers thing. "Look, what are we supposed to do, ostracize one third of our entire society? This is obviously just how most men are, and yeah it's not nice, but what can anyone do about it, ya know?" If one year from now we've seen like 300 celebrities and politicians lose their careers, I worry that it'll stop being shocking or controversial because we have become desensitized and overwhelmed by it all, and therefor end up feeling like there's nothing to do, no way to change something so widespread and ingrained.
Which is NOT to say that I'm against this stuff coming out, I'm all for it. I'm just speculating because, honestly, I don't have a lot of faith or trust in American culture to draw the correct conclusions and respond in a good way. I'm trying to remain positive and optimistic about all this, and I'm enjoying it all, but I also wouldn't be terribly shocked if the eventual outcome of this moment ends up being depressing as fuck.
Not just rapes, pretty much anything involving control and power. This isn't *really* just about sex. If they needed sex, they could pay for a high-priced call girl. It's about their position of power, and their ability to make women squirm, and assuming that their power is attractive, and assuming that they can get away with anything, because they are in a position of power; many of them have very little (actual) respect for women. This is a demeaning act, not a sexual one.
Charlie Rose, "I thought it was consensual." (bullshit)
Dude ... if they are WORKING with you, it can NEVER BE consensual, it's the WORK PLACE. NO NO NO NO NO NO NO. Work is not a bar or a place to pick up women. IT'S WORK. Just stop. This isn't even a good EXCUSE, since that excuse is also UNETHICAL AND ILLEGAL. IT'S WORK. NOOOO.
If anything comes out of this, it will be all of these women standing up -- en masse -- for themselves, making this kind of behaviour VERY RISKY for the harassers and abusers in the future.
The Downward Spiral was pretty much written ALL ABOUT this power and seeking this power; we had a 50-page thread in here discussing "Reptile" and the power struggle, the hate/redemption factors and Eve/Serpent biblical references.
Last edited by allegro; 11-21-2017 at 01:30 PM.
What really pisses me off right now are people comparing which is "worse" in all of this, and Dems saying that Roy Moore should be yanked ("because he's a pedo!") but Al Franken is okay ("at least he's not a pedo, that's not the same thing").
They're BOTH WRONG. THEY'RE BOTH BAD.
They both committed UNETHICAL AND ILLEGAL ACTS OF POWER OVER SOMEBODY ELSE.
No "but this one is worse" ... where does that end?
"At least Roy Moore didn't anally sodomize them with the bloody stump of a dismembered fetus!"
Stop comparing unethical and illegal acts to support your own stance or your own tribe. It's a bunch of shit, it does NOBODY any good.
"But he didn't assault me."
WHO FUCKING CARES??!! He did harass and assault others!
Bill Cosby was supported by Phylicia Rashad, too. That doesn't mean HE DIDN'T DO IT. She should have STFU.
Like the woman working for Charlie Rose, and women came to her to complain .. did she DO anything? No, she said "that's just Charlie being Charlie." Now she says she failed those women. Yes, yes you did.
For people who think that sexual harassment "isn't as bad" as sexual assault, no, that's the WRONG view of this shit. IT'S ALL BAD. And, many sexual harassers will move to the next step of sexual assault.
It's like thinking "emotional abuse isn't NEARLY as bad as physical abuse." Except nobody who's experienced it or anyone who works with the victims agrees with that. IT'S ALL BAD.
Hey, re the title of this thread: SEXUAL MISCONDUCT is actually an all-encompassing legal term.
Last edited by allegro; 11-21-2017 at 01:43 PM.
Only if there are criminal charges; this isn't a legal thread, we aren't discussing individual state laws and associated punishment, right?
Law looks at ALL of these things as 'bad,' not as "well, it was robbery but at least it wasn't ARMED robbery." The Courthouse isn't divided into 'bad' and 'not so bad' crimes.
And in the work place, sexual harassment or discrimination is often a violation of EEO rules or a violation of policy, and it would require a victim to file a civil suit for relief. Or, the company enforces its policies (not as common as people think) and does an investigation, etc. But, it's far more common for this behavior to be so intimidating (or a potential loss of revenue) that it's hidden, kept secret, swept under the rug.
Look how many cases of sexual harassment were brought up against Roger Ailes and Bill O'Reilly, because there was a hostile work environment where the women weren't supported at all or just paid to shut up.
Now, Fox News has established a Workplace Culture Panel.
Yes, apologists applying their own criteria for the own benefit (progressives, conservatives, whatever) is just slanting the reality to match your own tribal views. This includes Republicans and President Trump, and Liberals and Al Franken.
I've seen a LOT of Progressives saying that Franken needs to go.
edit: Love the new thread title, btw!
Last edited by allegro; 11-21-2017 at 02:10 PM.
you keep insisting it’s mostly about power. They don’t go for prostitutes because prostitutes are a sure thing... there’s no uncertainty. It’s like why some people get more excitement about cheating on their partners... it’s novelty, and rule-breaking, and uncertainty... power COULD be involved... but I insist it isn’t power as the main driver in a large portion of cases
The Law and experts disagree with you.
The uncertainty is based on the power.
It's why "rape" is now known as "sexual assault" in nearly all jurisdictions.
They don't do this to people of equal or more power.
Cheating on a partner is NOT the same thing as doing this shit at work or sexual assault. Adultery isn't even illegal, anymore; you don't even need to cite it as a cause of divorce in most counties and states.
Last edited by allegro; 11-21-2017 at 02:55 PM.
All of the above. Any of the above.
Here's a good article: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...b00705db52c340
See also this. http://www.sexualharassmenttraining....-Dynamics.html
Sexual harassment really comes down to power. Whether it's Quid Pro Quo or Hostile Workplace Harassment, the perpetrator is exerting a form of power when they sexually harass. In Quid Pro Quo sexual harassment, the perpetrator is in a position of power at work and is exerting this power to get sexual favors in exchange for a workplace benefit. In Hostile workplace sexual harassment the perpetrator is deliberately making the workplace a hostile, uncomfortable environment for a coworker. This is also a power play. The perpetrator is saying I will do what I want whether it is disturbing you or not.
Stopping Harassment is also about power. Both managers and management have the power to stop sexual harassment. The power in an organization lies with managers and supervisors who have been given power within the organizational structure, so that the organization can operate effectively. This power needs to be used for business productivity and not for personal gain. This positive power can come in the form of no tolerance sexual harassment policy and from the example of individual managers.
A company's sexual harassment policy should be very specific and cover all aspects of sexual harassment. It should be signed by every employee and every employee should be thoroughly trained on appropriate behavior. They should know unequivocally what steps will will be taken if they engage in any type of sexual harassment.
Managers and supervisors can exert power over Sexual Harassment by their example. They need to take the policy seriously and never joke about it or allow behavior to occur contrary to it. The manager is the most powerful force in stopping harassment.
Whether it is Hostile Work Environment or Quid Pro Quo, harassment is about power. Make sure your organization is exerting its power for the good of the company and not for personal gain.
Last edited by allegro; 11-21-2017 at 04:05 PM.
Yeah, this stupid excuse doesn't even hold up to the most basic scrutiny. He said...
Oh, you sincerely thought all of this was totally consensual and a-okay. So then what's up with this shit..."I always felt that I was pursuing shared feelings, even though I now realize I was mistaken."
Why fire someone just because she told her friend about a (supposedly) perfectly consensual, ethical, appropriate, relationship? If you're doing nothing wrong, you should have no reason to silence her, bully her, get rid of her, etc. That's the behavior of someone who is fully aware of his own wrong doing and is actively working to protect himself. His claim that he thought it was all consensual is pure bullshit.when Rose learned she had confided to a mutual friend about his conduct, he fired her.
he was doing something that clearly violated the policies of his employers (CBS and PBS), see this.
See page 11 of the above-linked document where the company's policies are clearly set out.VI. HARASSMENT-FREE WORKPLACE ENVIRONMENT
CBS has a “zero tolerance” policy for sexual harassment or harassment based on race, color, sex, religion, national origin, ethnicity, age, marital status, sexual orientation, gender identity, gender expression, disability, veteran status, height, weight, genetic information, or any other basis proscribed by applicable law. Discriminatory treatment, including sexual harassment and harassment based on a person’s race, age, or other protected status, is strictly prohibited. Unlawful harassment may occur not only as a result of conduct by supervisors, but also due to conduct by directors and/or fellow employees, and, under some circumstances, conduct by customers, vendors, consultants, visitors, and independent contractors. Unlawful harassment can take place in the office or in work-related settings outside the workplace, such as during business trips, business meetings, and business-related social events. This Statement applies with equal force to conduct in all such settings.
So I guess he is Lotso.... oh boy...
Sweet Jesus. Men are pigs. I feel embarrassed to be a straight White guy sometimes.