The Trayvon Martin killing

[littlemonkey613]

Did I say that was the reason? Stop saying something I didn't. I didn't name race in any shape or form when it comes to that. I'm talking ANY anon criminal I've seen videos of.

I was saying MY reasoning! I know you were only addressing the hoody aspect and I was saying why it is BULLSHIT to separate the two.

[theruiner]

Even if it is a trend among robbers to wear hoodies, they are the vast, VAST minority of people who wear them. Most people wear hoodies- millions and millions of them- because they like the style and/or it keeps them warm and/or for when it rains. So, again, this is a case of some people stereotyping an entire group based on a small, small, tiny minority of people.

And NONE of that changes the fact that George Zimmerman shouldn't have been following Trayvon, ESPECIALLY NOT WITH A GUN. Period. So we have a guy following someone because they were African American or they were wearing a hoodie or he was looking around (a guy in a hoodie looking around in MY neighborhood?! Not on my watch, bub!) Even if he was doing something suspicious, Zimmerman did all the wrong things here. And he was following- and ended up shooting- a kid who was walking home to watch a basketball game with his dad. If he had just called the cops with his (most likely stupid, based on the 50 other calls he made to law enforcement earlier in the year over things that weren't necessary) assumptions, none of this would have happened.

[Space Suicide]

I was saying MY reasoning! I know you were only addressing the hoody aspect and I was saying why it is BULLSHIT to separate the two.

The way it came off threw me off. Apologies.

Even if it is a trend among robbers to wear hoodies, they are the vast, VAST minority of people who wear them. Most people wear hoodies- millions and millions of them- because they like the style and/or it keeps them warm and/or for when it rains. So, again, this is a case of some people stereotyping an entire group based on a small, small, tiny minority of people.

I don't agree with it but it is a common thing people judge on, even if it is falsely.

I'm a perp. I wore one this morning.

[littlemonkey613]

We all know there are fucking reasons for people thinking a hoody made him more suspicious, we are not saying there aren't, seeing as THAT IS OUR POINT. Zimmerman is full of prejudice which is inherently irrational! If anything this hoody argument proves it! All prejiduce has a "reason" for existing as do all stigmas. We know that! All you are doing is re inforcing the idea that Zimmerman was irrational with prejudice because even if it was just the hoody WHICH IT WASN'T that is still thought based in prejudice and preconceived nonsense!

[50 Volt Phantom]

Ruiner, your post with the little kid was fucking stupid, and you know it was.

Littlemonkey, you're immediate response of "black plus hoodie = suspicious" in response to a post that said absolutely NOTHING about race completely exposed you and is exactly why I could give a shit less about responding to your points. You see racism because you seek it out even when it is explicitly not there.

[littlemonkey613]

I was making a POINT. And no! I do not ask for racism do you think I want this? Really? Really? YOU ASKED WHY PEOPLE CANT CELEBRATE BEING WHITE. And you think YOU are more informed about how much racism actually exists?

Way to cop out of my best points made on here as well, you still haven't addressed them. I don't refuse to address anything you say. Coward. Go ahead and try to argue against what I said before concerning white privilege. It will be kind of hard to argue against fact though.

[50 Volt Phantom]

Ya, you're point was bullshit, a white person in a hoodie in that situation would have been just as suspicious to me. Plus Zimmerman didn't seem to even be sure the kid was black until he got closer, how does that work into your little "point?"

[littlemonkey613]

No, not that , argue against THIS:
"White is not skin color! It is a socially constructed pan ethnic group in which its members share ONE thing in common. Their dun dun dun! PRIVILEGE over minorities. In the same way brown people and black people of different cultures and backgrounds have NOTHING in common except dun dun dun their oppression at the hands of the white majority. But your're right, its not fair that white people cannot come together and celebrate the thing they share in common, especially when its something so wonderful. The only thing that even makes them a group is the fact that they have power. You can go and celebrate that all you want. Groups that weren't considered white in the past joined your awesome club when society granted them the privileges of the majority. But you're right, its not inherently racist to celebrate this. Acknowledging reality does not create that reality."

I refuse to move on until you admit it is idiotic and inherently racist to celebrate being white, just as its inherently ableist to celebrate being not disabled, and inherently homophobic to celebrate the fact that you are heterosexual. We cannot even have a conversation about race on this board while you refuse to acknowledge this reality. It's like talking to a junior high student.

[theruiner]

Well, we know 50 Volt stereotypes people. That's a shock.

Ruiner, your post with the little kid was fucking stupid, and you know it was.

Not even a tiny bit. If anything, it proves that stereotyping people based on the jacket they wear is incredibly stupid, and so are the people who make those assumptions.

Let me get this straight-

Assuming someone is a criminal because they're African-American because a tiny, tiny percentage of people with the same skin color have committed crimes=racist

Assuming someone is a criminal because they're wearing a hoodie because a tiny, tiny percentage of people who wear hoodies have committed a crime wearing them=perfectly fine.

Wow. Glad we got that sorted out.

[50 Volt Phantom]

Ya, not going to happen, especially after your response to Suicide.

[littlemonkey613]

Ya, not going to happen, especially after your response to Suicide.

Are you kidding? There is NOTHING that you have said that would keep me from answering you and there is nothing you can say that would make me refuse to have discourse with you.

I think its safe to say you literally can't argue against my point. I have a sneaking suspicion it is because everything I stated above is factual but I'm not sure...
Care to prove me wrong with words or will you continue to act like a child?

[50 Volt Phantom]

Well, we know 50 Volt stereotypes people. That's a shock.


Not even a tiny bit. If anything, it proves that stereotyping people based on the jacket they wear is incredibly stupid, and so are the people who make those assumptions.

All it proves is that comparing a child to an out of place 17 year old kid in a neighborhood with a history of robberies at night is absolutely stupid, especially considering the negative connotation that wearing a hood up carries.

[theruiner]

Are you kidding? There is NOTHING that you have said that would keep me from answering you and there is nothing you can say that would make me refuse to have discourse with you.

I think its safe to say you literally can't argue against my point. I have a sneaking suspicion it is because everything I stated above is factual but I'm not sure...
Care to prove me wrong with words or will you continue to act like a child?

You know, as frustrating as this is, I wouldn't worry too much about it. 50 Volt has made it quite clear where he stands. We don't even have to say anything, and his words in this thread will speak for themselves. There is no logic to be found here, no matter how many different ways we make the same point.

[50 Volt Phantom]

Are you kidding? There is NOTHING that you have said that would keep me from answering you and there is nothing you can say that would make me refuse to have discourse with you.

I think its safe to say you literally can't argue against my point. I have a sneaking suspicion it is because everything I stated above is factual but I'm not sure...
Care to prove me wrong with words or will you continue to act like a child?

Whoopety doo to you, I know when it's better to not waste my time. Like I said, you were exposed as far as I'm concerned. You'll continue to see racism everywhere because you can't help but find it.

[littlemonkey613]

Whoopety doo to you, I know when it's better to not waste my time. Like I said, you were exposed as far as I'm concerned. You'll continue to see racism everywhere because you can't help but find it.

So you didn't even read what I said? 50, YOU ASKED WHY PEOPLE CANT CELEBRATE BEING WHITE.

You don't think maybe there is a better chance that you are ignorant of racism, since you were stupid enough to ask that?

You don't think someone who asks why men can't celebrate being men would be a tad ignorant of the reality of sexism?

[50 Volt Phantom]

Ya, in a society where a group like La Raza or NAACP can exist without complaint, such a group that might be associated with people of white skin color would be considered racist right off the bat. Why is it that Spanish speakers and black people can have a group and it be socially acceptable but not white people? That in itself is racism as far as I'm concerned. I have no problem with La Raza and the NAACP existing, where I have a problem is the uproar that occurs when similar groups are considered for representing lighter skinned people, like Europeans.

[50 Volt Phantom]

Let me get this straight-

Assuming someone is a criminal because they're African-American because a tiny, tiny percentage of people with the same skin color have committed crimes=racist

Assuming someone is a criminal because they're wearing a hoodie because a tiny, tiny percentage of people who wear hoodies have committed a crime wearing them=perfectly fine.

Wow. Glad we got that sorted out.

It's not perfectly fine, it's just not at all shocking. White, black, brown, whatever, a lot of people commit crimes wearing hoodies to hide their identity or to be intimidating.

I know you're really trying to sell this stance hard, but I have a feeling that you have similar subconscious reactions to situations in which someone wearing a hoodie might be doing something unusual.

[littlemonkey613]

Ya, in a society where a group like La Raza or NAACP can exist without complaint, such a group that might be associated with people of white skin color would be considered racist right off the bat. Why is it that Spanish speakers and black people can have a group and it be socially acceptable but not white people? That in itself is racism as far as I'm concerned. I have no problem with La Raza and the NAACP existing, where I have a problem is the uproar that occurs when similar groups are considered for representing lighter skinned people, like Europeans.

Okay. Good your speaking to me again.
Dude, people with white skin color can have groups, you can have an Irish group, you can have a Dutch group, you can have a golf and business group that happens to be all white. However, as I explained earlier the ONLY thing that unites white people of different backgrounds is their privilege and station of authority within society over minority groups. The sole purpose of a "black group" is to gain power in a society which sees you as a second class citizen. This is why women's groups exist and the like.


If you were to have a group "celebrating whiteness" it would LITERALLY mean you are celebrating your position in society as being the oppressor because it is the only thing that all whites have in common.......Just as the only reason black groups exist is because the individuals are united under their oppression....

Now if you still disagree, are you prepared to defend that if people with disabilities are allowed to group up and have pride over it, then people should be able to have pride specifically over not being disabled?

That is what a white group inherently would be...because the only thing that makes you white is the fact that you are in your position of societal advantage in opposition to all others....You would be celebrating NOT being a minority.

[50 Volt Phantom]

So you didn't even read what I said? 50, YOU ASKED WHY PEOPLE CANT CELEBRATE BEING WHITE.

You don't think maybe there is a better chance that you are ignorant of racism, since you were stupid enough to ask that?

You don't think someone who asks why men can't celebrate being men would be a tad ignorant of the reality of sexism?

I think men and women should be able to celebrate their specific sex, what in the hell is wrong with that?

[littlemonkey613]

I think men and women should be able to celebrate their specific sex, what in the hell is wrong with that?

Men have been celebrating being men for all of human history........do I need to paint you a picture of the results? Anyways my above post explains so just replace white with the gender which oppresses the most...

[50 Volt Phantom]

Okay. Good your speaking to me again.
Dude, people with white skin color can have groups, you can have an Irish group, you can have a Dutch group, you can have a golf and business group that happens to be all white. However, as I explained earlier the ONLY thing that unites white people of different backgrounds is their privilege and station of authority within society over minority groups. The sole purpose of a "black group" is to gain power in a society which sees you as a second class citizen. This is why women's groups exist and the like.


If you were to have a group "celebrating whiteness" it would LITERALLY mean you are celebrating your position in society as being the oppressor because it is the only thing that all whites have in common.......Just as the only reason black groups exist is because the individuals are united under their oppression....

Now if you still disagree, are you prepared to defend that if people with disabilities are allowed to group up and have pride over it, then people should be able to have pride over not being disabled?

See I disagree with your stance of all white people having privilege in common and all black people having oppression in common. This is why we never move forward, I mean as much as I dislike the guy's policies, America did elect a black president, I think we can move on from this privilege-oppressed system, because as long as you decide that it's there it's there. I personally don't see anyone, no matter sex or skin color as second class, and that's exactly why I disagree with your attitude on the subject.

[50 Volt Phantom]

Men have been celebrating being men for all of human history........do I need to paint you a picture of the results? Anyways my above post explains so just replace white with gender...

I take a similar stance here as I do with race I guess, both should be able to celebrate presently, discouraging one over the other just keeps sexism alive in my opinion.

[littlemonkey613]

See I disagree with your stance of all white people having privilege in common and all black people having oppression in common. This is why we never move forward, I mean as much as I dislike the guy's policies, America did elect a black president, I think we can move on from this privilege-oppressed system, because as long as you decide that it's there it's there. I personally don't see anyone, no matter sex or skin color as second class, and that's exactly why I disagree with your attitude on the subject.

See this is just unfair. If what you are saying is true, then that means the overt sexism and racism I have experienced my entire life is all my imagination. Have you ever stopped to think that maybe the reason you haven't experienced discrimination is because you are the majority on many fronts?

Obama is an EXCEPTION, not the rule.

So you mean to tell me that I am not verbally harassed and hollered at every time I go to school by men driving by? Do you mean to tell me that last week a car full of men didn't come up to me 3 times and tell me to get in their car? Do you mean to tell me that I didn't pull a guy trying to drunkenly hump my friend last month? Do you mean to tell me that I haven't been called slut and hoe for simply walking outside dozens of times since I hit puberty? Do you mean to tell me that people aren't constantly saying "you act so white for a black girl" for years and years? Do you mean to tell me that when my dad got in a car accident last year with me in the car that I didn't hear the lady who hit us say "What is someone like you even doing over here?" Do you mean to tell me that complementarianism is not a fast moving and huge movement across the U.S.? Do you mean to tell me that women now make up half of the government?


You are mistaken. To ignore the problem makes the problem worse.
You keep forgetting that the existence of white and black IS an oppressive - oppressed system inherently! Race is not ethnicity! You are expressing a sentiment that says that black people and white people both happen to exist and the white people just happened to oppress the other in recent history. This is incredible seeing as black and white was constructed IN ORDER TO keep power away from those not deemed worthy! Don't you understand? White and black are social constructs BASED on a distribution of power. It is not a natural divide!

No, I do not decide if its there, because I didn't use to be all that aware of my own subjugation. It exists whether I noticed it or not, because I can give you examples in retrospect...unless you want to argue that the things I tell you didn't actually happened I suggest you stop trying to argue that I am the one keeping those privileges alive.

I am not "deciding" something is there. I am experiencing something and then acknowledging that it happened.....THATS IT.

I'll take your advice though. Next time I get a best friend who tells me that wives should submit to their husbands I'll just plug my ears and then it will cease to exist!

Thats all fine and dandy that YOU don't see or treat people as second class but you do not make up the freaking world or this freaking country END OF STORY. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist! This is all to real for some people and I think you should listen to us. I mean jesus, if someone who was deaf was telling me about ableism and how they are treated as second class a lot of the time I wouldn't be like you and say "ugh by complaining you are keeping up the divide"......

[chris]

Do you think it was fine that Zimmerman disobeyed the police order not to follow him? Can you also stop referring to the crimes in the neighborhood as robberies? They were burglaries and there is a difference.

[Conan The Barbarian]

How many states currently have this law?

[littlemonkey613]

24 currently. Wow I had no idea it was that many. How troubling.

[Conan The Barbarian]

Then I think it is time for everyone in those 24 states to start putting in effort to get those laws erased.

I am more shocked about this killing that another kid got murdered. I am shocked that this law pretty much gives anyone a free ride when it comes to killing.

a hate driven crime, maybe. But the media is giving this case the wrong kind of attention. Only way to justify all the victims, is to start taking on getting these laws out.

[littlemonkey613]

More attention needs to be given to the laws and gun control, the topic that NO ONE wants to touch. I'm so disapointed that the Democrats refuse to ever bring this issue up. How many people have to be killed by these things for us to actually create sensible gun regulation?

[Conan The Barbarian]

Its the season of elections, so dems wont touch issues like guns because those who believe in the amendment will flock to the wrong side. I mean, I dont blame them as I really dont want someone like Santorum or Mitt Romney take office.

[Jinsai]

Its the season of elections, so dems wont touch issues like guns because those who believe in the amendment will flock to the wrong side. I mean, I dont blame them as I really dont want someone like Santorum or Mitt Romney take office.

I'm fairly certain that the hardcore 2nd amendment people already believe the democrats want to take their guns away, and they already flock to the right when it comes to who they vote for.