Occupy Wall Street

[NIN64]

What are your thoughts? Do you support them or not?

[Zimbo]

They are too fragmented for their own good. There is not much in the way of an official stance beyond the banks having too much autonomy/power (which I can support). I think how the police and by extension the executive branch as a whole are treating them is indecent and insane. Humanity has slipped from these police.

[guilty]

Occupy Wall Street has no leadership, which provokes violence. It's like the media, the police and the banks are trying to randomly chop off the heads of a Hydra.

People are getting hurt, badly, but the violence is provoking outrage among the "middle class".

[DF118]

I agree with the principle however the execution has been undermined by a little hypocrisy. Did you know that the occupiers at Zucconi Park actually developed into a class system within the occupation? Like, the richer protesters crowded at the top of the park, with their larger living spaces and their iPads, while the poorer squatted huddled together at the bottom like sardines. That's pretty interesting from a sociological perspective. Occupiers even organised plan of action in the lobby of the Deutsche Bank.

The police brutality has been inexcusable, of course.

[theruiner]

I definitely support the movement, but I can't say I agree with everything they're doing. It does seem to have actually made a difference, though. Before the movement started, it seemed like the national discourse was focused on the deficit. After the movement, suddenly the focus is back on jobs.

And yeah, the police brutality is inexcusable.

[halloween]

My thoughts...it's something real and it's making people think about issues. That's enough for me!

It's revived my love/hate relationship with the news- want to know what's going on, but really feel sick of watching so many violent videos =[

[allegro]

In the past, the student movements were the galvanizing forces. I'm really proud of these students for standing up for what they believe in.

[konstantin]

how could anybody think it's not a good thing. there's no business interest to back it up, like in the case with the tea party, so it's doomed to develop "organically". not sure it's going to change anything, but it has certainly started a discussion.

[allegro]

Yeah. I'm not sure the Occupy protests are gonna get far, but I think the student movements may morph into something else.

These seniors are pretty pissed, too, and they all vote.

I would like to shove pepper spray up these cops' asses.

[theruiner]

I always kind of knew that the right-wing pundit/talk show host universe was completely full of shit (outside of being fundamentally opposed to everything they stand for), but holy shit. I've been addicted to Media Matters, Think Progress and just flipping around the dial and listening to what they have to say, and the misrepresentation of this movement, the blatant lies and the insane rhetoric is amazing.

[halloween]

Yeah, i was really shocked with Gringich's comment about the students needing to "get a job, after taking a shower".

Like really? Is that the smartest way you can respond to something like this?

[theruiner]

Yeah, i was really shocked with Gringich's comment about the students needing to "get a job, after taking a shower".

Like really? Is that the smartest way you can respond to something like this?

That's because he can't argue with what the movement actually stands for, so instead of actually debating the facts, he goes for the "well, you're all a bunch of smelly hippies so there" angle. And stupid people (and there are a lot in this country) just completely buy it.

Of course, what Gingrich conveniently leaves out is the fact that he was Freddie Mac's bitch for years.

[Wretchedest]

While agree with many of their philosophies, it seems like for every one or two guys with sound ideas and a level head, there's eight or nine preaching about chem trails and that bullshit. There's no game plan, no specifics, no clarity. It doesn't even seem like they come properly prepared.

I'd like to see them really pull together with a real sort of ideology.

[Highly Psychological]

Protesting is a fun social event. They are just having fun. Being all rebellious about something. They will get bored soon, having their little self righteous uproar.

Protesting became massive again here in London last year after a few years of them not being really being reported about. Through 2010 suddenly there seemed to be one every few months, therefore the media reported on it again, so more people then heard about it resulting in more vulnerable impressionable people joining and having a slice of the action.
Eventually this fad got so bad that this summer in 2011 there was a massive riot on a scale i have never seen before. It almost looked like civil war, it was because a drug dealer got shot dead. Started off a small protest involving family and friends then more people miles away saw it as an excuse to have some fun and have a protest, media reports on it, more people join, with recent protest's involving tution fee's and culture of young people joing in protest again they have this view that its acceptable to throw objects at police block cities and smash up the place. eventually it gets out of control and buildings are being burned down people are looting, People are dying. Young Naive 18 year old's spend 5 years in jail.

Its just something i noticed here, each protest got more intense, they occured more frequently and people starting behaving worse. Almost like they didnt know why they were protesting. It was like a fad, it started with middle class students protesting about tuition fee's, and this sort of mindset happened in people where they wanted to protest about everything. It got a bit violent and then everyone started joining in, then it went totally insane. Just an observation from here. Simply put i hope what happened here in London this summer does not occur in New York or anywhere else in the states.
But something about protesting is very contagious.

[DF118]

Almost like they didnt know why they were protesting.

That's because that wasn't a protest, it was a riot. Sure, it might have been triggered by the death of Mark Duggan, but ultimately there were no true motives behind the looting other than greed and general 'badness'. People wanted to wreck havoc for antisocial fun and profit, so they did. "Young naive 18 years olds" who wantonly incite that shit using social media, causing as much chaos as they can knowing full well it would become lethal, deserve to have the fucking book thrown at them.

[sublimaze]

Sorry, being subjected to pepper spray isn't fun. IMO. Calling the OWS movement a "fad" dismisses the very real problems they're protesting against--income inequality, unemployment, corruption in financial institutions, etc. I'm grateful that a good number of people are sticking their necks out for the benefit of all.

Also, what do you mean by "soon." OWS has been going for more than two months now.

[icklekitty]

These seniors are pretty pissed, too, and they all vote.

I'd like to hear more about what the seniors have to say. I don't think I've come across much since the first protest.

[konstantin]

Sorry, being subjected to pepper spray isn't fun. IMO. Calling the OWS movement a "fad" dismisses the very real problems they're protesting against--income inequality, unemployment, corruption in financial institutions, etc. I'm grateful that a good number of people are sticking their necks out for the benefit of all.

Also, what do you mean by "soon." OWS has been going for more than two months now.

agreed. i really don't understand where the "us vs them (OWS)" comes from. as if the members of this board (or the people who watch TV for that matter) are not from the 99%.

[heroicraptor]

Raid on LA group tonight.

[Baphomette]

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...,6248857.story

What cracks me up is that the city has no problem with children living on Skid Row a couple of blocks down from the Occupy LA camp.

[theruiner]

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...,6248857.story

What cracks me up is that the city has no problem with children living on Skid Row a couple of blocks down from the Occupy LA camp.

Yup. Just a bullshit and completely transparent excuse to shut down the local chapter.

What made me sick was listening to Tim Conway Jr. on KFI tonight casually throwing out that (paraphrasing) "there's probably going to be some ass kicking tonight at the Occupy L.A. site!" He's stated before that he thinks they're all idiots, so that doesn't surprise me. I really, really hate that station, but there was nothing else on, and I can actually pick it up out here at night. Needless to say, I couldn't stomach it for very long.

[M1ke]

I like the general principals, but without a specific plan to enact the change I feel it is doomed to fail.

That said, I believe they have the right to protest, and I feel that it's wrong that they're being kicked out of public places and their protests being broken up.

[PeedroPaula]

At 57, I'm a senior according to AARP (and taking advantage of those senior discounts whenever I can), and I'm all for the movement but dubious about the ability of OWS to formulate a coherent plan. That's why I'm supporting https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/ which intends to send delegates from each congressional district to a National General Assembly in Philadelphia next July to draw up an official list of grievances with which to petition the government for redress.

Thanks to a $10,000 donation from an angel, we have a commercial set to air during Keith Olbermann's show on Current TV at 8 and 11 pm EST beginning Monday 12/5 and we have raised $8000 as a deposit on a venue in Philly for the Assembly.



It is my firm belief that the ONLY thing that needs to be addressed is getting money and corruption out of politics by overturning the Citizens United decision by whatever means possible, reinstating Glass-Steagall, and banning corporate and union lobbying.

You can find read the declaration at https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/

More information is available at http://www.facebook.com/www.the99dec...on.org?sk=info and http://www.facebook.com/groups/the99declaration/

____

BTW (for those of you who don't know me) this is NOT spam. I'm a NINnie through-and-through and cofounder of NINarmy.

[jms]

David Weigel

Chris Moody, on the ground in Florida, writes up some of the advice that uber-pollster Frank Luntz gave to Republican governors. The challenge, surprisingly: Talking about the Occupy movement and its various angsts. Surprising, because snap polls on the protesters themselves have shown the public backing away from them, losing interest and sympathy for the camps-for-change strategy. And the protesters haven't exactly strategized a fightback; I'm noticing that most "mic checks" are targeting political figures, not because they enforce inequality, but because they break up camps. See: Philadelphia mayor Michael Nutter.

The take away: The public is souring on Occupy's tactics, not its message. But, as medium and message blurs, the distinction starts to mean less and less. "Mic checks" and references to "smashing the system" play into the ready-made narratives spun against the Occupy protestors and make it easier for a weary public to ignore a somewhat difficult message. The "camping" part of the movement needs to end, or everyone will just slide back into hippie-punching.

[sublimaze]

What tactics to use, then, to make a significant impact on public discourse? Everybody would ignore protestors standing there, playing by all the rules, not disrupting speeches by politicians. I disagree, that as the movement becomes more public, the overall OWS tactics (right to free speech and assembly) are more openly recognized as legitimate. Police brutality across the US is "viral" online. it'll be interesting to see how all of this shakes out.

[allegro]

I'd like to hear more about what the seniors have to say. I don't think I've come across much since the first protest.

Here's a recent local example. Video.

Here's an example in Boston.

Here's an example from IDAHO.

edit:

The "camping" part of the movement needs to end, or everyone will just slide back into hippie-punching.

Agreed!

[jms]

What tactics to use, then, to make a significant impact on public discourse?

Political action: Direct community involvement, volunteering, fundraising. Events that welcome the general public rather than protests most people would find unpleasant to actually attend. Instead of standing out on the campus and blocking people from getting to work, how about using one of those buildings on campus to host events that invite people from around the community to talk about these issues.

The initial protests were good; they got people interested. But camping out in public parks for 10 weeks is not going to appeal to the broad coalition needed to work on these issues. The Tea Party was able to transition from protest to movement. Occupy is not making that same jump.

Everybody would ignore protestors standing there, playing by all the rules, not disrupting speeches by politicians.

People were paying attention two months ago when the protests didn't consist of people acting like dicks. The story is stale now, and the protestors are tying to "shake it up" in the worst possible way; rather than graduating to the next level of action- something actually constructive- they're just trying to maintain attention. The protestors might be able to get coverage, but they are still being ignored- medium is message. When they ambush a politician or do stuff like this, the story being heard isn't "oh hey, we better start paying attention to their issues again", it's "look at these assholes", or "even Occupy hates the Democrats".

Occupy seems to have trouble distinguishing getting on camera and being heard.

As I said before, Occupy was getting attention, positive attention, exactly when you're saying they shouldn't: earlier in the movement when there were far fewer clashes with authorities, when there was less liberal in-fighting, and when they hadn't made Hoovervilles out of public squares. They are losing public support not because they aren't being in-your-face enough, but because they haven't built on their success. Most of America listened to Occupy, liked what they heard and then wanted to hear what was next. But they never got that.

I disagree, that as the movement becomes more public, the overall OWS tactics (right to free speech and assembly) are more openly recognized as legitimate.

This is not the case. Firstly, "free speech" isn't a tactic. Their tactics are to remain in public areas for months on end, to "mic check", and apparently to pull stunts like the one at the Democratic fundraiser I linked to above.

Secondly, public support for Occupy has dropped sharply. As support slided, protestors tried to keep in the spotlight with tactics that turn-off most voters. Indeed, what they're doing plays into the narrative that Highly Psychological pushed earlier- one of spoiled brats throwing a tantrum.

It's all just the same old back and forth chatter to most people now. That's a shame, because for a while there, Occupy had a unique voice that was resonating with a lot of people. It's not too late, though, since the issues themselves are still important to a lot of people.

[allegro]

Some of you may find this interesting:

Naomi Wolf speaks at Elmhurst College (my Alma Mater) the day after she was arrested at OWS.

[PeedroPaula]

Political action: Direct community involvement, volunteering, fundraising. Events that welcome the general public rather than protests most people would find unpleasant to actually attend. Instead of standing out on the campus and blocking people from getting to work, how about using one of those buildings on campus to host events that invite people from around the community to talk about these issues.

The initial protests were good; they got people interested. But camping out in public parks for 10 weeks is not going to appeal to the broad coalition needed to work on these issues. The Tea Party was able to transition from protest to movement. Occupy is not making that same jump.

That's what I've been arguing all along on Facebook. Look, I'm an old hippie myself and the camping out and drum circle bullshit is turning ME off! Concrete goals with suggested solutions would actually bring more people into the movement. My local OWS has weekly indoor GAs and demonstrates in front of major banks for a couple of hours each Saturday handing out flyers with information on credit unions and urging bank customers to move their money and support the local economy. We're much more about true outreach than just making a point. If you haven't, you really should check out the links I posted above.

[PooPooMeowChow]

Hating on OWS has become just as popular as taking part. IMO these protests are like the London riots a few months ago, no real aim just random anger. Every one knows they're being ripped off but not completely sure how. Which, to me is good. Peaceful protests go no where. but ows protesters are determined to stay peaceful and have the shit kicked out of them. So my guess is they'll hybernate for the winter and be back for the Spring.
Also it's just a matter of time until those checks the police get start to bounce.