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Thread: God Break Down the Door - first single

  1. #601
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    Quote Originally Posted by polski View Post
    The characters could believe different things about what The Presence is than you do.
    true.
    Let me say this. Look at the time period of YZ. We're talking early sobriety for the artist, right? All the 12 step programs and most rehabs are based on spirituality. They CLAIM that they aren't religious, but 6 of the 12 steps mention "god" if I'm not mistaken.
    I went into that shit vehemently anti Christian and got a serious fucking dose of spirituality. But there is no dogma in it. It's more of a "spirit of the universe" or " higher power. "
    Still, I would argue that MOST people who go through recovery are like, for instance, praying at least at the meetings.
    They do that. They have group prayer and then claim they aren't a religious organization.

    So okay, this recovery works and you're told that it's the work of "god."

    And I think a lot of people then start looking at the hypocrisy of organized Christianity and see a sort of disconnect there.

    I REALLY think that this may have partially informed Year Zero: it's this idea that there IS a higher power, but people have it wrong (like the church of plano.)
    In fact, a lot of what is claimed to be "Christian" is the DIRECT OPPOSITE of what it's really supposed to be about.

    so I think there is this kind ... I think a big part of the YZ story is about THAT. It's about people being self righteous and judgemental (god given) while the ACTUAL higher power is right there and it's PISSED (the warning.)

    As to the nature of the presence and whether or not it's aliens: I have no fucking idea what the physical nature of god is but it COULD be something that seems very alien. I feel pretty certain that The Warning is about SOME kind of higher power.
    It's hard to find people who have been through recovery who don't have some degree of spirituality.
    The few that don't came up in specifically atheist programs like Rational Recovery (Albert Ellis, based on RET,) and S.M.A.R.T., but those people are pretty fucking few and far between.

    THEN, you've got the metaphor idea that @streetman mentioned. I could be TOTALLY wrong and GBDTD could just be that.
    Last edited by elevenism; 05-27-2018 at 02:17 PM.

  2. #602
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    I really like the idea that a "god" is so pissed at all us fuckers and religions he just reaches through the clouds and fuck us up by putting the whole of humanity into a simulation to think for a while about all this bullshit, like Trent is doing.
    Last edited by StockAvuryah; 05-27-2018 at 02:28 PM.

  3. #603
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    Quote Originally Posted by elevenism View Post
    true.
    Let me say this. Look at the time period of YZ. We're talking early sobriety for the artist, right? All the 12 step programs and most rehabs are based on spirituality. They CLAIM that they aren't religious, but 6 of the 12 steps mention "god" if I'm not mistaken.
    I went into that shit vehemently anti Christian and got a serious fucking dose of spirituality. But there is no dogma in it. It's more of a "spirit of the universe" or " higher power. "
    Still, I would argue that MOST people who go through recovery are like, for instance, praying at least at the meetings.
    They do that. They have group prayer and then claim they aren't a religious organization.

    So okay, this recovery works and you're told that it's the work of "god."

    And I think a lot of people then start looking at the hypocrisy of organized Christianity and see a sort of disconnect there.

    I REALLY think that this may have partially informed Year Zero: it's this idea that there IS a higher power, but people have it wrong (like the church of plano.)
    In fact, a lot of what is claimed to be "Christian" is the DIRECT OPPOSITE of what it's really supposed to be about.

    so I think there is this kind ... I think a big part of the YZ story is about THAT. It's about people being self righteous and judgemental (god given) while the ACTUAL higher power is right there and it's PISSED (the warning.)

    As to the nature of the presence and whether or not it's aliens: I have no fucking idea what the physical nature of god is but it COULD be something that seems very alien. I feel pretty certain that The Warning is about SOME kind of higher power.
    It's hard to find people who have been through recovery who don't have some degree of spirituality.
    The few that don't came up in specifically atheist programs like Rational Recovery (Albert Ellis, based on RET,) and S.M.A.R.T., but those people are pretty fucking few and far between.

    THEN, you've got the metaphor idea that @streetman mentioned. I could be TOTALLY wrong and GBDTD could just be that.
    From what I've read, TR's sobriety started in earnest around 2002. Whether that's "early" is your call.

    I can't speak to how faith may have informed his process, and neither can you. Plenty of programs operate outside of religious faith, or are inclusive or specific to any faith. I've been sober 15 years myself, started in AA but left after a year due to incompatibilities that had nothing to do with religion, another thread's worth of a subject.

    I'm not trying to take your interpretation away from you, I just think it's a little gauche to project motives towards someone's work w/r/t their personal sobriety process from outside of it.

  4. #604
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    Quote Originally Posted by polski View Post
    From what I've read, TR's sobriety started in earnest around 2002. Whether that's "early" is your call.

    I can't speak to how faith may have informed his process, and neither can you. Plenty of programs operate outside of religious faith, or are inclusive or specific to any faith. I've been sober 15 years myself, started in AA but left after a year due to incompatibilities that had nothing to do with religion, another thread's worth of a subject.

    I'm not trying to take your interpretation away from you, I just think it's a little gauche to project motives towards someone's work w/r/t their personal sobriety process from outside of it.
    it's just a thought

    also, i had my dates off. i was thinking that with teeth came out later than it did and that the man's recovery happened later.
    still, i would argue that MOST drug and alcohol treatment has at least SOME spiritual aspect that can often stick with people.

    And it doesn't change my interpretation of Year Zero. I don't think it's anti-god, i think it's against the people who claim to be of god yet are the furthest thing from it.

    as for the impetus for the whole thing, i may well be projecting my own experience onto it a bit too much

    i also feel like i need to say that i realize that i could be way, WAY off on all of this. this is just personal interpretation and speculation.

    i guess the simplest answer about the lyrics to "god break down the door" is that god is SUCH an insanely broad term that it wouldn't be a strange lyric even without FMW and such.
    Last edited by elevenism; 05-28-2018 at 07:21 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by streetman View Post
    Well, I wonder if the video will be for Ahead Of Ourselves... It's interesting that it hasn't been released yet since it was available at the listening station and there was a crappy leak. The 2nd track off AV was released 5 days after Less Than. So I wonder if they're holding off on releasing AOO because they may be finishing up a video for it. Either way, can't wait!
    Less Than was also released a week before Add Violence. If they end up releasing two songs before Bad Witch (which I think is likely given Ahead of Ourselves being in the album teaser) I don't think we'll get the second one until early June to keep hype up for the album release.

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    This is such a weird conversation. God is mentioned in Pretty Hate Machine, Broken, The Downward Spiral, The Fragile, With Teeth, Year Zero, and Hesitation Marks, yet you guys are acting like it's notable that the word "god" is said in this new song. Like, he's talked about God constantly his whole career. Where have you guys been?

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    Quote Originally Posted by zecho View Post
    This is such a weird conversation. God is mentioned in Pretty Hate Machine, Broken, The Downward Spiral, The Fragile, With Teeth, Year Zero, and Hesitation Marks, yet you guys are acting like it's notable that the word "god" is said in this new song. Like, he's talked about God constantly his whole career. Where have you guys been?
    Damn good point.

    For the record, I get the impression that @Buzz threw this out there so as to create an interesting topic for conversation.

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    God Break Down the Door - first single

    Quote Originally Posted by zecho View Post
    This is such a weird conversation. God is mentioned in Pretty Hate Machine, Broken, The Downward Spiral, The Fragile, With Teeth, Year Zero, and Hesitation Marks, yet you guys are acting like it's notable that the word "god" is said in this new song. Like, he's talked about God constantly his whole career. Where have you guys been?
    It's more a debate between people like me, who see the narrator of the songs as being a faithful/religious person struggling with or just affirming their faith, and those that would argue that every mention of God is somehow metaphorical, which makes very little sense in almost all of the songs. The basis for the God as metaphor is due to Trent's subversive early 90s image, despite the fact that he's recently affirmed his belief in God without subscribing to a particular religion.

    So, yeah, we know. But there's a debate over what he means by "God." I don't see any of the recent mentions of God being at all antagonistic, mocking or confrontational, and I don't get how or why an atheist would bother talking about something they don't think is real that often, but some think Trent is a Marilyn Manson level anti-spiritualist based on the bitterness expressed in songs from the late 80s or early 90s. Shrug.
    Last edited by Pbgut; 05-28-2018 at 12:19 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by leftshoe18 View Post
    Less Than was also released a week before Add Violence. If they end up releasing two songs before Bad Witch (which I think is likely given Ahead of Ourselves being in the album teaser) I don't think we'll get the second one until early June to keep hype up for the album release.
    I'm wondering if we'll get a "proper" video and then a live video to accompany GBDTD. We got "Burning Bright" and "She's Gone Away" and then the live video of "Branches/Bones", then we got "Less Than" and "This Isn't The Place" followed by the live video of "The Lovers". Don't know if it's coincidence or a formula, but I hope it keeps up.

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    Trent Reznor, like most intelligent people with a high IQ, know that god doesn't exists. Unfortunately, only a minority of humans today have the reasoning skills to understand reality. Humans today believe in/and worship almost 5,000 different gods. And I can assure you that most of these people believe that their god is the real one, and all the rest are fake. If you believe in god, do you find it unusual that you happen to believe in the one "real" god (s), while everyone else is wrong? Do you find it unusual that you probably believe in the god that your family believes in? And that you believe in the god that's popular based on were in the world you live and what time in history you live in?
    Science has been around for only a short amount of time (in human history). Our brains evolved to their complex state before learning how the universe really works. We had questions. We made up the answers in the forms of thousands, upon thousands of religions. But we have science now. It can answer most questions. Today, there is no need for belief in the supernatural, as it will never really help you understand reality. Unfortunately, most people don't value education, and real knowledge. As long as there is ignorance and people not willing to learn how the universe really works, there will always be religion and conspiracy theorists.
    If you need a placebo in the form of a "god," go for it. It's your brain....

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    Quote Originally Posted by atomobile View Post
    Trent Reznor, like most intelligent people with a high IQ
    some of the most intelligent and influential people in history were religious. Ranging from artists, inventors, scientists, whatever.
    Last edited by HWB; 05-28-2018 at 01:12 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HWB View Post
    some of the most intelligent and influential people in history were religious.
    To be religious you have to be inherently ignorant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pbgut View Post
    Trent has clearly stated he believes in God, though he is not associated with a religion. I am an atheist myself so I'm not trying to proselytize. But when asked if he believes in God (not "a god" or a "higher power" but just plain ol' God), his answer is simply "I do." He then details that he is not affiliated with a particular religion. If you want a guy who's explicitly anti-religion AND anti-spirituality, Marilyn Manson is more your guy. There are way too many references to spirituality in NIN's lyrics AND interviews to twist Trent Reznor into being an anti-spirituality poster boy, especially in his later days.

    You can't really point to any evidence that God is being used as a metaphor on his earliest songs. Terrible Lie is explicitly a protest against the betrayals and broken promises of Christian God himself, not against some other metaphor. Heresy is railing against the perversion of Christian principles by right-wing evangelicals. And Trent grew up with the church, which itself is not evidence of him being still religious, but does provide more than enough evidence that he is very familiar with the concept. Why would he release so many songs protesting the cruelty of God if it was just a metaphor? This is a stretch at best, and makes no sense.

    I have no desire to paint him as a Sunday school-goer, but I think people have a real desire to paint him as this raging atheist when he's more a skeptic of religion itself, but not the spirituality behind it. If you want that, Manson is probably more your guy.

    And Trent is not the same angry dude he was at 25; all you need to do is read the lyrics of "Find My Way" to see that. Again, he doesn't talk about God on that song - he references "dear Lord," which is basically never used as a metaphor the same way "god" colloquially is. You're really, really stretching it if you want to read a song that is entirely framed structurally as prayer as somehow metaphorically a prayer, when in the same year he unequivocally says he believes in God, in an interview.

    If you want to ignore all of this stuff, I can't really reason you out of it, but I think a lot of people heard burned by religion heard the chorus to Heresy without thinking about the context of it and haven't really re-evaluated their position. It's always curious to me that atheism and anti-religious sentiment can lead some people to the same kinds of misinterpretations that see as endemic to religious thought, when it's just a basic aspect of humanity.

    And you're gonna keep missing the point of pretty straightforward prayer songs like Find My Way and GBDTD, and think it's mocking the idea of faith, when there is simply absolutely no evidence that it's anything but a humble expression of a more personal faith.
    Spirituality and religion are two separate things. Also, Trent never said "I do". He said he believes there's some higher power out there. Again, that could be anything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by streetman View Post
    To be religious you have to be inherently ignorant.
    Again, "god" is a broad term.
    It gets into metaphysics.
    I believe in god but I certainly don't believe that God is a "man in the sky."
    I call myself a Christian but I suppose I'm more of an altruistic pantheist.

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    Also, this thread is turning into something that has nothing to do with the song. People have strong feelings about this shit and I'm afraid this could turn into a shitshow.

    We need a religion/anti religion thread. Perhaps I will make one in the near future.
    Last edited by elevenism; 05-28-2018 at 01:32 PM.

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    It’s kinda already there imho

    At least god doesn’t seem to get a mention in halo 1. Just everything since. And he’s clear in HLAH that god is a wad of bills. It’s a strange god but I’ll let it pass.

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    Quote Originally Posted by elevenism View Post
    Again, "god" is a broad term.
    It gets into metaphysics.
    I believe in god but I certainly don't believe that God is a "man in the sky."
    I call myself a Christian but I suppose I'm more of an altruistic pantheist.
    Christianity is responsible for some of the most heinous events in history. So you just blindly call yourself a Christian because you happened to be born into it??????? That is the very definition of ignorance. No offense but that's just the way it is. These so called religious nut bags (no matter what religion) all believe 100% in their own religion while delegitimizing all the others (My religion is the right one!) only because of geography and the family they happened to be born into. The whole thing is bafflingly silly.

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    God Break Down the Door - first single

    Quote Originally Posted by streetman View Post
    Spirituality and religion are two separate things. Also, Trent never said "I do". He said he believes there's some higher power out there. Again, that could be anything.
    Streetman, I don't wanna go back and forth on it. His literal first two words in that interview, in response to the question, "Do you believe in God?" are "I do." He then goes on to detail the nature of his faith in God. Apparently you have a huge issue with the simplicity of this answer, or you wouldn't be twisting yourself in knots about it. No atheist would bother talking about God in as many songs as Trent has. Although I'm not religious at all, I avoid calling myself an atheist due to fanatics like you, who can't even accept other people's beliefs to the extent that you sound exactly like the zealots you're protesting against. You're reading your own beliefs onto a straightforward prayer. Go listen to Marilyn Manson, dude.

    Again, it seems like people on here are rejecting Trent's professed spiritual beliefs based on their own biases, which is, y'know ... dumber than what they're protesting against in the first place. I'm not religious or spiritual at all, I just wish people were fucking literate at a sixth grade level. Nothing I can do about it.

    Anyway, I don't wanna get the thread locked, so if Sam Harris and co. is gonna continue to rant I'll just shut up about it.
    Last edited by Pbgut; 05-28-2018 at 01:41 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pbgut View Post
    Streetman, I don't wanna go back and forth on it. His literal first two words in that interview, in response to the question, "Do you believe in God?" are "I do." He then goes on to detail the nature of his faith in God. Apparently you have a huge issue with the simplicity of this answer, or you wouldn't be twisting yourself in knots about it. No atheist would bother talking about God in as many songs as Trent has. I avoid calling myself an atheist due to fanatics like you, who can't even accept other people's beliefs to the extent that you sound exactly like the zealots you're protesting against. Go listen to Marilyn Manson, dude.

    Again, it seems like people on here are rejecting Trent's professed spiritual beliefs based on their own biases, which is, y'know ... dumber than what they're protesting against in the first place. I'm not an atheist, I just wish people were fucking literate at a sixth grade level. Nothing I can do about it.
    Because he says "some higher power". Pull the quote and you can read it. SOME means anything. He doesn't say yes, I believe in a bearded man in the sky, does he? No.

    PS. Also, let's not pretend Trent isn't ignorant for just believing in some higher power based on absolutely nothing. That's a bit ignorant, too. Maybe Trent needs to believe in some higher power because of the issues he had in the past. If so, that's great. But again there's ZERO evidence to believe any of this crap. If there's physical objective evidence bring it forth. If not, it's all profound ignorance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by streetman View Post
    Because he says "some higher power". Pull the quote and you can read it. SOME means anything. He doesn't say yes, I believe in a bearded man in the sky, does he? No.

    PS. Also, let's not pretend Trent isn't ignorant for just believing in some higher power based on absolutely nothing. That's a bit ignorant, too. Maybe Trent needs to believe in some higher power because of the issues he had in the past. If so, that's great. But again there's ZERO evidence to believe any of this crap. If there's physical objective evidence bring it forth. If not, it's all profound ignorance.
    The question is "Do you believe in God." Not "a god" or a "higher power." And his answer is "I do."

    You claimed he does not say "I do," when it is the first two words out of his mouth. He then goes into detail that he does not consider himself part of a particular religion. You then posted several poorly punctuated rants about Christianity. I don't care about Christianity. I care about what the guy said. I'm not responding to you anymore because we're gonna get the thread locked.

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    And here's the entire quote:

    Brody Dalle: T-Dog, do you believe in God?

    “I do. I take comfort in thinking there’s some purpose and higher power of some sort. I’m not affiliated with any particular religion but that gives me some sense of comfort. I’ve had some dark days through the years and been through some shit that makes me think there is some reason here and it’s beyond just physics and biology.”

    Notice how many times "some" is used. Also confirms the fact that he thinks there's something based on his past dark experiences. Everyone needs to believe in something beyond themselves to get through, especially if they've had hard times. But this is hardly any statement of belief or endorsement of god. People should know the difference.

    http://www.theskinny.co.uk/music/int...s-trent-reznor

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pbgut View Post
    The question is "Do you believe in God." Not "a god" or a "higher power." And his answer is "I do."

    You claimed he does not say "I do," when it is the first two words out of his mouth. He then goes into detail that he does not consider himself part of a particular religion. You then posted several poorly punctuated rants about Christianity. I don't care about Christianity. I care about what the guy said. I'm not responding to you anymore because we're gonna get the thread locked.
    My god dude, he elaborates on it right after "I do". Read the quote - I just posted it in its entirety.

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    we have this exact same discussion every single time trent says the word "God"

  24. #624
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    Quote Originally Posted by streetman View Post
    Christianity is responsible for some of the most heinous events in history. So you just blindly call yourself a Christian because you happened to be born into it??????? That is the very definition of ignorance. No offense but that's just the way it is. These so called religious nut bags (no matter what religion) all believe 100% in their own religion while delegitimizing all the others (My religion is the right one!) only because of geography and the family they happened to be born into. The whole thing is bafflingly silly.
    Jesus fuck. I didn't want to do this here (see above.)
    I call myself a Christian because Christ is the ultimate symbol of altruism.
    I don't take any of it literally.
    I live my life according to the sermon on the mount.
    For me, Christianity is NOT about John 3:16 (free gift of eternal life as long as you believe the story or whatever.)
    It's about love and how we treat each other.
    For me it's about feeding the hungry and taking in refugees and going the extra mile and basically loving and taking care of each other.

    I HATE the ideology of 95% of "christians." Again, they missed the point, Imho.

    It doesn't make a fuck what people did in the name of Christianity. This is mentioned in the gospels: Christ says that people will come to him in the end and Christ will say "piss off, I never knew you."

    Also, this has NOTHING to do with the family or region I was born into. I'm 49% Hare Krisna. I get a lot from Buddhism. I study Jewish mysticism and Kabbalism. I appreciate Islam. I feel Gnosticism. and I was a Celtic pagan for 10 years of so. Spirituality is important to me, and it's also a hobby.

    I don't think that ANY religion is exactly right.
    But again, I'm a HARDCORE altruist. And Christ's words were the most altruistic shit I've ever read (Matthew 5, 6, 7.)
    I'm damn sure not saying that I believe that Jesus is the "one true path." And I'm certainly not sure that he "died on the cross for our sins" and came back from the dead .
    But the existence of "god?" Again, it's about metaphysics . I don't believe that everything sprang into existence from nothing. And I believe that "god" is the spirit of everything. We are all part and parcel of it.

    I'm not the kind of "Christian" you think I am.

    and I'm not clogging this thread up with anymore of this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zecho View Post
    This is such a weird conversation. God is mentioned in Pretty Hate Machine, Broken, The Downward Spiral, The Fragile, With Teeth, Year Zero, and Hesitation Marks, yet you guys are acting like it's notable that the word "god" is said in this new song. Like, he's talked about God constantly his whole career. Where have you guys been?
    Got a lot of song titles with the name "God" in it ? No ? Well there you go. I appreciate the conversation even if it's not "real" the subject of the track specifically though. Weird is good.

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    Did you know that God is dead???




























    And no one cares?!?!?!?!

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    So I went on a long road trip and when I got home this thread had devolved into exactly what I was afraid of. Look, I'm not religious, but militant atheists are the worst. Look, you can not believe in god, but don't try to twist Reznor's words into supporting your weirdly aggressive stance.

    Christianity has been a source of many bad things, but it was also an early source of science and math. From Galileo to Newton, many scientists did what they did in the name of religion, and for the most part, the church endorsed them. Even Richard Dawkins has spoken about how much good early Christianity has done for the human race.

    And coming in here and insulting a VERY large amount of people based on a singular and common belief doesn't show their ignorance, it shows your lack of tact and tolerance.

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    Maybe god is just an anagram for dog. He really likes dogs.

  30. #630
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    I don't believe in a god.
    Come and hate me, bro.

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