Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 45

Thread: Toronto Van Attack

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    320
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)

    Toronto Van Attack

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/fede...dent-1.4631909

    9 dead, 16 injured.

    Suspect was apprehended, appeared to try to incite police to shoot him, which they did not do. The suspect's identity has not been released at this point. No motive has been released yet.

    This was literally within a 2 minute walk of my friends apartment (they're OK, I've talked to them, they were not home when it happened).

    Lots of questions to be answered still.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Smyrna, GA
    Posts
    6,400
    Mentioned
    68 Post(s)
    I heard the news a few hours ago. What the fuck?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    9,828
    Mentioned
    755 Post(s)
    This maybe has something to do with G7? Wtf this is horrible.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    san fransisco
    Posts
    1,117
    Mentioned
    37 Post(s)
    i find the police restraint commendable imagine if it was America and he was black. stephon Clark was shot 20 times so bad his family had to have a closed casket. he had a cell phone and was in his grandma's back-yard. land of the free? free to die in a hail of police bullets
    -Louie
    Last edited by Louie_Cypher; 04-23-2018 at 06:01 PM. Reason: plurals are fun

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    320
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    This maybe has something to do with G7? Wtf this is horrible.
    It's possible, but no motive has been released yet.

    I've seen a name thrown around on some news sites, but I don't want to repeat it because it's unconfirmed at this point and could very well be wrong.

    The only thing we know for sure is that he yelled "kill me" at the officer after he got out of the van, and appears to be miming a gun pointed at the arresting officer, although he may have had something else in his hand.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Ontari-ari-ario
    Posts
    3,286
    Mentioned
    133 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    This maybe has something to do with G7? Wtf this is horrible.
    Mmmm, this happened about 8 miles north of the University campus where those meetings were being held. Toronto is huge.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Right here
    Posts
    1,740
    Mentioned
    117 Post(s)
    Even if he gives away a motive, it will seems ridiculous and pointless to us reasonably sane people. Nothing in the world justifies this. It's horrible and heartbreaking.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Hell's Bells
    Posts
    375
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    It's been a terrible month for Canadians. We're still reeling from what happened in Humboldt. Also, a shop owner at our local mall was beaten to death last week.
    Last edited by Boots; 04-23-2018 at 08:49 PM.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    320
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    A name has been released, Alek Minassian.

    Appears to have worshiped Elliot Roger. Basically a misogynist who was rejected by women, so he decided to run over 25 people. 10 are now dead, 15 more injured.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toront...sian-1.4632435

    It's still early, but that's what the initial reports are saying.
    Last edited by eskimo; 04-23-2018 at 09:55 PM.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Ontari-ari-ario
    Posts
    3,286
    Mentioned
    133 Post(s)
    "Not connected to known organized terror groups"... hmm, or maybe a dude with Armenian family name (ie. Christian, Caucasian) is simply by definition "not a terrorist" and "not a national security threat".

    I'm really angry and sad about all of this.
    Last edited by botley; 04-24-2018 at 07:15 AM.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    274
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by botley View Post
    "Not connected to known organized terror groups"... hmm, or maybe a dude with Armenian family name (ie. Christian, Caucasian) is simply by definition "not a terrorist" and "not a national security threat".

    I'm really angry and sad about all of this.
    I guess weíll have to wait until we have a clearer idea of his motivations before jumping to conclusions about terrorism, discrimination, privilege, misogyny, etc.

    Although the act in itself is an act of terror.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Ontari-ari-ario
    Posts
    3,286
    Mentioned
    133 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by tremolo View Post
    I guess we’ll have to wait until we have a clearer idea of his motivations before jumping to conclusions about terrorism, discrimination, privilege, misogyny, etc.

    Although the act in itself is an act of terror.
    Does this ring any bells?

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    320
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    I've seen that post. News outlets I'm reading are being hesitant to confirm that he posted, saying it may be set up by someone else to distract, but it fits with everything else I've read about him.

    Charges were filed today. Only thing he said in court was hid name.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    320
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by botley View Post
    And it's been confirmed now, he posted this right before he started his rampage.

    Makes it pretty clear what was going through his mind at the time.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Ontari-ari-ario
    Posts
    3,286
    Mentioned
    133 Post(s)
    So this would be the second case of a domestic-born terrorist with ties to alt-right groups committing senseless mass murder, after last year's horrific Quebec City shooting. Truly a disturbing pattern, and I hope this wakes people up from "we're not as bad as USA" complacency. Our isolated, frustrated young men are lashing out to make themselves heard and snuffing out or ruining lives in the process. It's horrendous.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    9,828
    Mentioned
    755 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by botley View Post
    "Not connected to known organized terror groups"... hmm, or maybe a dude with Armenian family name (ie. Christian, Caucasian) is simply by definition "not a terrorist" and "not a national security threat".

    I'm really angry and sad about all of this.
    Come on, Botley, is it really fair to mention any kind of "terrorism" in this or assume that people are automatically ruling it out due to his non-Muslim name? The guy publicly stated that he admired Elliot Rodger, who was a guy who was pissed off that he couldn't get a date. Read Rodger's manifesto, he came from a very well-off family, his Grandfather was the British photojournalist George Rodger, who is famous for photographing the Bergen-Belsen death camp in 1945; Elliot Rodger was "mixed race," had very low self-esteem, was totally narcissistic (like, NPD levels), and was quite possibly more fucked up due to social media and the "men's rights movement" but also about his white privilege and his position in the upper class and why he wasn't being treated like an Elite Citizen.

    I agree that no country is "immune" to this type of horror, particularly the influence of social media and it's twisted "heroes." These days, it appears that growing up "ordinary" and anonymous is a fate worse than death to some.
    Last edited by allegro; 04-24-2018 at 12:56 PM.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    5,450
    Mentioned
    344 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by botley View Post
    Holy fuck... I feel like my brain is stuttering...

    I can't even process this sort of insanity, and the problem that's screaming out in my mind is "this kind of psychological malfunction is aided by the technology powering modern discourse, and otherwise would never be tolerated, let alone be allowed to flourish in a functioning society."

    It's sort of like when that whole "cuck" thing showed up... but as fucked up as that was, and the way that it seemed to (chicken/egg?) infest pornography, it felt more like a continuation of something... an alpha-male dominance fantasy to bolster bad self esteem.

    This is like the weird inverse of that... a culture of psychos finding power in their shared repulsiveness, and solidarity in that there are other people out there who are just as crazy.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Ontari-ari-ario
    Posts
    3,286
    Mentioned
    133 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    Come on, Botley, is it really fair to mention any kind of "terrorism" in this or assume that people are automatically ruling it out due to his non-Muslim name?
    Yes. It is. Incel groups have endorsed terrorism, and are cheering this act today, and calling for more. They cheered when the first name released of those confirmed dead was a woman's. I assure you my city is grieving and terrorized by this politically-motivated act.

    Also, people saying the Toronto Police Service is some kind of amazing example for others to follow are wrong. They didn't get this right. They horribly botched a long investigation into the serial killer who was targeting our LGBT village. For every perp they apprehend without killing, there are others not so lucky because they're Black or Indigenous.
    Last edited by botley; 04-24-2018 at 01:34 PM.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    274
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by botley View Post
    So this would be the second case of a domestic-born terrorist with ties to alt-right groups committing senseless mass murder, after last year's horrific Quebec City shooting. Truly a disturbing pattern, and I hope this wakes people up from "we're not as bad as USA" complacency. Our isolated, frustrated young men are lashing out to make themselves heard and snuffing out or ruining lives in the process. It's horrendous.
    Thereís a big difference in proportion to the violence going on in the US. Of course that doesnít make these events in Canada any less terrible.

    My concerns are the motivations and the perspective we choose to aproach these devastating events. Do mental health issues have any room here? I think it is too early to judge.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    9,828
    Mentioned
    755 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jinsai View Post
    Holy fuck... I feel like my brain is stuttering...

    I can't even process this sort of insanity, and the problem that's screaming out in my mind is "this kind of psychological malfunction is aided by the technology powering modern discourse, and otherwise would never be tolerated, let alone be allowed to flourish in a functioning society."

    It's sort of like when that whole "cuck" thing showed up... but as fucked up as that was, and the way that it seemed to (chicken/egg?) infest pornography, it felt more like a continuation of something... an alpha-male dominance fantasy to bolster bad self esteem.

    This is like the weird inverse of that... a culture of psychos finding power in their shared repulsiveness, and solidarity in that there are other people out there who are just as crazy.
    Most people who are mentally ill are victims of crimes, not committing crimes. We have to stop blaming mental illness for things when we can't wrap our minds around hate.

    Look at this guy at the Waffle House in Tennessee, who goes in there naked except for a shirt and an AR-15 and kills 4 people, all of color, and you'd THINK it was race motivated, but when you go into the guy's history, he has stuff in there like he thought he was being stalked and harassed by Taylor Swift and she had hacked into his Netflix account and he met her at the Dairy Queen, and he'd been at the White House declaring his right to "inspect the grounds." And his dad had taken the guy's guns away, but then gave them back! And now dad is in trouble (rightfully so!)

    But, the site screenshots from the link that @botley linked above are, in effect, potential hate crimes. Plain and simple. They're full of hate.


    Last edited by allegro; 04-24-2018 at 02:10 PM.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    9,828
    Mentioned
    755 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by botley View Post
    Well, that one was a pretty understandable mistake, actually. (compare to Philando Castile being pulled over - and killed - because he matched the description of a robber, although his car didn't - he was black and had a "wide-set nose")

    Toronto sure enough ain't perfect, but I think a few remarks in here are only from the perspective of police brutality and the crazy stupid fuckups we see here, of which you aren't always privy, they aren't intended to mean that your police are perfect or beyond reproach, or that Canada is immune to brutal acts of violence, etc.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Northern Minnesota
    Posts
    1,188
    Mentioned
    23 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by botley View Post
    So this would be the second case of a domestic-born terrorist with ties to alt-right groups committing senseless mass murder, after last year's horrific Quebec City shooting. Truly a disturbing pattern, and I hope this wakes people up from "we're not as bad as USA" complacency. Our isolated, frustrated young men are lashing out to make themselves heard and snuffing out or ruining lives in the process. It's horrendous.
    I think this is a huge part of the issue that doesn't seem to get talked about nearly enough. I would say you could also swap out "USA" from above and replace it with "THEM," as to me it seems like a strong motivator for many of these sorts of situations from shooters to bombers, etc. There is a huge sense of disillusionment that is growing coulped with what i see as a need for inclusion in something that is driving much of this behavior.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    274
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    Most people who are mentally ill are victims of crimes, not committing crimes. We have to stop blaming mental illness for things when we can't wrap our minds around hate.

    Look at this guy at the Waffle House in Tennessee, who goes in there naked except for a shirt and an AR-15 and kills 4 people, all of color, and you'd THINK it was race motivated, but when you go into the guy's history, he has stuff in there like he thought he was being stalked and harassed by Taylor Swift and she had hacked into his Netflix account and he met her at the Dairy Queen, and he'd been at the White House declaring his right to "inspect the grounds." And his dad had taken the guy's guns away, but then gave them back! And now dad is in trouble (rightfully so!)

    But, the site screenshots from the link that @botley linked above are, in effect, potential hate crimes. Plain and simple. They're full of hate.


    I think that if you take the time to research enough psychos, serial killers, mass murderers, and even just plain abusers or violent people, there is a pattern of fucked up childhoods.

    Does that mean that everyone with a fucked up childhood is likely to willingly hurt others? Of course not, and it doesnít work the other way around either.

    Iím not sure what qualifies as a mental illness and what doesnít, but itís clear that their messed up behaviour is rooted either in a chemical imbalance in their brain, or unhealthy behaviour patterns that they were exposed to or taught during formative years.

    I canít imagine what it must be like to be so disconnected from human emotions (even if temporarily) that killing others seems like the right thing to do.

    So far this doesnít seem to be connected to an organized terrorist group, but more like a damaged person who didnít have the tools to find a healthy way out of whatever made him make that decision.

    I feel for the relatives and friends of those who were killed or injured, it must be devastating and painful.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    9,828
    Mentioned
    755 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Pillfred View Post
    a need for inclusion in something
    I totally agree with this, it seems like even the NRA is filled with a bunch of people searching for some kind of "identity."

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    320
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    I'm all out of patience for hateful bigots.

    I don't care anymore if they're seeking acceptance, or identity, or what lead them down this vile path.

    I talk to my girlfriend, who keeps telling me that telling bigots to fuck off online doesn't accomplish anything, but I don't care anymore. She advocates for trying to find common ground and trying to include these asshats in collaborate problem solving, but quite honestly fuck it, I don't care anymore.

    Look at this:
    https://www.reddit.com/r/IncelTears/...astes_no_time/

    And tell me that this is trying to find an identity? And tell me why I should have anything but scorn for someone like that?

    Look at this shit:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/IncelTears/..._here_yet_but/

    This is what the terrorists in the accused's community are advocating.


    Fuck this shit. I love pirating movies and all, but fucking hell it's time to turn the goddamn internet off. Censor the fuck out of this thing, lets go back to the stone age. I don't give a shit anymore.

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    320
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Free speech can go fuck itself.

    These idiots would never find support without the goddamn internet. They would have become social outcasts, probably hit rock bottom, figured out that they were fucking up, and turned themselves around.

    Now, they don't have to face the fact that they're acting like assholes, and instead can find a whole online community full of assholes who want to support them in their quest to remain assholes and advocate for shit like this.

    Fuck it, I'm done with it all. Let's shut the fucking internet down so that these pieces of shit can't find each other anymore.

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    1,081
    Mentioned
    12 Post(s)
    Just so I'm getting this right. The solution is to shut down the internet and watch the "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" method apply it self?

  28. #28
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    9,828
    Mentioned
    755 Post(s)
    @eskimo , for the record, by saying these (hateful psychopathic) people are joining these groups seeking an “identity,” I didn’t intend to be sympathetic; I was simply pointing out a cultural phenomenon, like the rise (and fall) of the popularity of things like vampires, space aliens, Satanism, the Confederate flag, or whatever the fuck new cultural phenomenon floats past their screen. Pre-Internet, this wasn’t as likely to happen, it took a hell of a lot more work. Now, with a few mouse clicks, sociopaths can be exposed to their new savior.

    I was just talking with my husband about this the other day: back in around 1986, censorship was a big no-no “online” but “online” was pretty much entirely made up of intelligent people who self-governed, self-policed; sure, we did see the occasional troll come into the Gay Conference and say shit like “I think all gay people are fucked up” but we knew that behavior amounted to "Troll" and 99% of us called for the Troll to get banned and then we called for certain areas of the board to have elected Moderators who could delete posts and ban people, and the users WANTED this and this was DESIRED CENSORSHIP in 1986.

    We all learned, in those pioneer days: Uncensored free for all = dangerous. There is no benefit to totally free speech.

    This doesn’t mean “shutting down” the “Internet.”

    It does mean expecting social media providers and forums etc. to properly monitor discussions. And that the governments probably need to monitor sites for this hate stuff.
    Last edited by allegro; 04-25-2018 at 11:30 AM.

  29. #29
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    320
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    @allegro , I was a bit upset, my post wasn't directed at you, and I apologize if it came out sounding like it was.

    I'm just tired of not knowing what to do with this. Reddit had already shut down some of the subreddits that these people gather on. If twitter started to police their site properly, and facebook's policies got better, those would be positive steps, but 4chan will never censor. They thrive on crap like this. And even if they did, something else would just pop up in it's place.

    I recognize my suggestion is extreme, and unlikely to ever happen, but what else is there to do? As long as the internet exists, these people are going to find communities that encourage these attacks. Horrid ideas are finding communities that support them, and echo chambers that are escalating the hatred. In the past, if someone came home angry because they got rejected, what happened? If they turned to a member of their community, that person would have likely had enough sense to not tell them to commit mass homicide.

  30. #30
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    274
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)

    Toronto Van Attack

    I have to push the button to stop those who want to push the button. If I donít do it someone else will!
    Last edited by tremolo; 04-25-2018 at 09:26 AM.

Posting Permissions