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Thread: Fragility 1.0 Tour Projections Source Tape

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    Fragility 1.0 Tour Projections Source Tape

    Didn't see this mentioned anywhere, and it obviously needs it's own thread. I was searching on eBay the other night and came across this:

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/David-Carso...s/112812769239

    It's a PAL VHS Tape that appears to be the projection design for the middle section of the Fragility Tour. I don't think I've heard of this being leaked out or available. I figured Levi or someone might want to organize a pool so we can liberate this as we have on some other rare things through the years. I know I'd definitely like to see it. I doubt someone is going to bite at the current $1200 price tag, but there has to be some middle ground the seller would accept.



    "Rare find, found in Storage Unit Auction.
    This is an RARE original PAL Video Cassette Tape of "NIN" THE NINE INCH NAILS "Projection" designed and directed by DAVID CARSON DESIGN STUDIOS.


    songs included:

    "La Mer"
    "The Great Below"
    "The Way Out Is Through""

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    Quote Originally Posted by trollmanen View Post
    Didn't see this mentioned anywhere, and it obviously needs it's own thread. I was searching on eBay the other night and came across this:

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/David-Carso...s/112812769239

    It's a PAL VHS Tape that appears to be the projection design for the middle section of the Fragility Tour. I don't think I've heard of this being leaked out or available. I figured Levi or someone might want to organize a pool so we can liberate this as we have on some other rare things through the years. I know I'd definitely like to see it. I doubt someone is going to bite at the current $1200 price tag, but there has to be some middle ground the seller would accept.



    "Rare find, found in Storage Unit Auction.
    This is an RARE original PAL Video Cassette Tape of "NIN" THE NINE INCH NAILS "Projection" designed and directed by DAVID CARSON DESIGN STUDIOS.


    songs included:

    "La Mer"
    "The Great Below"
    "The Way Out Is Through""
    Oof, that price tag is steep. I would be interested to see them though. What an odd/incredible find. I always enjoyed the "AATCHB" DVD, and wish they would reissue it on Blu Ray, but sadly, I don't think that will happen. Reznor himself has stated that he was a mess for most of that tour and if i recall, stated that it is very hard for him to watch. Wishful thanking.

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    Ill donate.

    Dont want this to end up like the PHM demo tape.

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    The AATCHB dvd features projections by Bill Viola, so I would absolutely love to see what Carson set up for this tour!

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    I've been wanting to see these more clearly for almost twenty fucking years. I'm good for $100.
    We should move fast on this people...

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    Also, in case we don't want to pay some rando $1200, someone from ETS could reach out to Carson's studio (phone number is right there in the picture, if it still works all these years later) and just tell them about this unofficial sale of his work. Maybe he'll just donate the footage to us?

    Although I met him at a gallery in New York years ago and he's a prickly bastard, he could just have the thing taken off of Ebay.
    Could be risky.

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    I'm personally leery of putting together a pool to pay someone a ridiculous amount of money for concert visuals. Yes, this is the source of those visuals and NIN history, but I'd much rather help someone leak this in an open-sourced way instead of rewarding someone for selling someone else's work. That's just me, though.

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    These are the projections we're talking about BTW

    https://youtu.be/fkGIL_IRz2c?t=31 TWOIT
    https://youtu.be/fkGIL_IRz2c?t=811 The Great Below

    The Way Out Is Through is fucking awesome.
    Last edited by fillow; 02-14-2018 at 11:21 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lt. Randazzo View Post
    I'm personally leery of putting together a pool to pay someone a ridiculous amount of money for concert visuals. Yes, this is the source of those visuals and NIN history, but I'd much rather help someone leak this in an open-sourced way instead of rewarding someone for selling someone else's work. That's just me, though.
    I'm 100% with you. That's why I tossed out the idea of narcing on the seller to Carson to see what happens. But that could end this whole thing real quick.

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    Or Reznor could make Deviations 2 an all video release with the original projections included.
    Or whatever.

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    Wow, I love Carson's work for The Fragile, it would be amazing to see the full videos that he made for these projections.

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    Quote Originally Posted by trollmanen View Post
    It's a PAL VHS Tape that appears to be the projection design for the middle section of the Fragility Tour.
    It should be pointed out that this is U-Matic. Makes sense given the history of DV.

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    Let me know when unleaked professionally shot footage of an entire concert the Fragility tour leaks..otherwise...pass

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    Quote Originally Posted by ItsChrisRoss View Post
    Oof, that price tag is steep. I would be interested to see them though. What an odd/incredible find. I always enjoyed the "AATCHB" DVD, and wish they would reissue it on Blu Ray, but sadly, I don't think that will happen. Reznor himself has stated that he was a mess for most of that tour and if i recall, stated that it is very hard for him to watch. Wishful thanking.
    A blu ray that didn't require switching discs would be a cool upgrade. For AATCHB on the discography page on nin.com says "ALSO A VIDEO WHICH IS PROBABLY OUT OF PRINT WORKING ON IT." so maybe it's a possibility.

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    This is a neat find, but $1200 is insane for a 3/4" reel, especially in this condition.



    The actual videotape would need to be cleaned by hand to remove the mould before it's gets transferred (assuming it wasn't bulk erased before it fell into the seller's hand). I'm guessing this would be an added expense to the transfer, but I have no idea how much it would cost.

    Most dub houses still have 3/4" decks, so it shouldn't be too difficult to get an actual transfer to a digital file. That said, I'm not sure if it would need to go through Standards Conversion since the transfer won't be played in an analog format.

    It might be easier to reach out to DC first and see if he could release the footage for free.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fillow View Post
    These are the projections we're talking about BTW

    https://youtu.be/fkGIL_IRz2c?t=31 TWOIT
    https://youtu.be/fkGIL_IRz2c?t=811 The Great Below

    The Way Out Is Through is fucking awesome.
    Off the top of my head I can't think of where I got this notion, but I was under the impression that the visuals in Europe, particularly for The Way Out Is Through, might have been Peter Christopherson's work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leviathant View Post
    Off the top of my head I can't think of where I got this notion, but I was under the impression that the visuals in Europe, particularly for The Way Out Is Through, might have been Peter Christopherson's work.
    I think Christopherson contributed some images to the "Hurt" projections.

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    I just reached out to Rob about whether he has the original projections somewhere or a line on Carson or if he has any ideas about what the community should do here. We'll see what he comes back with, I guess.

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    I doubt Rob or David Carson are going to share any of this with us. I'm sure that TR owns the footage that Carson created, as he was surely paid for that work, so he's not in a position to give away or share what he doesn't own the rights to. Rob doesn't work for NIN anymore, and thinking he's going to start leaking things from the vault is foolish, as I'm sure he'd be breaking contracts in doing so, and burning a bridge he likely has no interest in burning. On the other hand, if this material came out in another way, I doubt TR is going to be mad about it.

    I agree, it's a lot of money the seller is asking for, and even more when you consider the cost of properly transferring and digitizing the tape. He's not going to get that much for it, but for 60 or 70 % of that cost, it might be worth it if enough people want in. I agree that it's not the best option to pay that kind of money, but for it to be leaked in an open source way would require someone having access to the tape, and in this case, I don't think the seller is interested in giving it away, and they probably can't even watch the thing.

    Also, from what the listing says, it was found in a storage locker. Presumably, the person selling it obtained it legally, so they can sell what they own. Now I do remember watching an episode of Pawn Stars where someone brought in a 16mm reel of Beatles footage from some early 60's appearance on a show of sorts. The Pawn Stars shop didn't end up buying it because while the person who had it could legally sell the reel, they couldn't legally do anything with what was on the reel, meaning they didn't have the rights to sell or exhibit what was on the reel.
    Last edited by trollmanen; 02-14-2018 at 11:09 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by paul_guyet View Post
    I just reached out to Rob about whether he has the original projections somewhere or a line on Carson or if he has any ideas about what the community should do here. We'll see what he comes back with, I guess.
    I bugged Rob on and off for over a decade about the Fragility 1.0 tape, and I eventually ended up purchasing the only known promo copy from nincollector.com, and used that to track down the digital betacam copy from the production studio that worked on the tape. Rob's a great dude, but an archivist he ain't. When he's had something right in front of him, he's been very cool about sharing, but if you're like, "Hey, remember that thing from a couple of years ago?" -- it's just this thing that I've noticed happens with folks who create a lot. They're so focused on making something new, they don't have time to catalog past works.

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    Also, $1200 is a fuckton of money, that, frankly, could go to better things. If we were talking directly to David Carson or someone else involved in the creation, I'd be more considerate of a price tag like that, but fuck this profiteering garbage. I'd do $250 max for the tape, and it'd probably be another $50 to rip it to a digital format (at the place in Philly I went to for the Fragility 1.0 and Sydney BDO tapes) and as FULLMETAL pointed out, the physical tape may require some level of restoration.

    I would absolutely love to have the original projections like this, but $1200? What we pitched in for the CD that eventually became Uncoiled and Recoiled was less than that by no small figure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leviathant View Post
    I bugged Rob on and off for over a decade about the Fragility 1.0 tape, and I eventually ended up purchasing the only known promo copy from nincollector.com, and used that to track down the digital betacam copy from the production studio that worked on the tape. Rob's a great dude, but an archivist he ain't. When he's had something right in front of him, he's been very cool about sharing, but if you're like, "Hey, remember that thing from a couple of years ago?" -- it's just this thing that I've noticed happens with folks who create a lot. They're so focused on making something new, they don't have time to catalog past works.
    what about what paul_guyet mentioned about contacting DC? your thoughts on that?
    asking because you and a few others in the community have managed to get a respectful dialogue going about some of these tapes with people who have these in the past (i think?), depending on who asks, might make a difference?

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    Wow, the seller has now added a $5,000 Buy It Now option. After seeing that, I'm inclined to agree that giving this person money is not worth it. We can only hope that whomever buys it, whenever the price is more realistic, will share it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leviathant View Post
    I bugged Rob on and off for over a decade about the Fragility 1.0 tape, and I eventually ended up purchasing the only known promo copy from nincollector.com, and used that to track down the digital betacam copy from the production studio that worked on the tape.

    you know you're a NIN fan when....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leviathant View Post
    Off the top of my head I can't think of where I got this notion, but I was under the impression that the visuals in Europe, particularly for The Way Out Is Through, might have been Peter Christopherson's work.
    I believe his name was in the credits for either the "Fragility 2.0" special on MTV or in the tour program sold at the American (and European?) shows. He may have been working out of David's studio, or at least working in collaboration with David.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leviathant View Post
    Aas FULLMETAL pointed out, the physical tape may require some level of restoration.
    Yeah. This bit me in the ass awhile back. Let's just say that I received a very interesting Betacam tape that a lot of NIN fans would love to see. Unfortunately, even after taking the tape to a place that specializes in difficult transfers, the tape snapped about halfway through. I suppose I could've spent a fortune and tried my luck with some firm in Hollywood that handles even more difficult transfers. As is, the tape was stored in a shed for many years. Not ideal in the least.

    (Regarding the tape's contents, I'll just say it's kinda like the older brother of the tape we're discussing. I'd have to dig it out of a box...somewhere in order to provide proof of my story. In any event, the intention was to share the goods. Next time....)

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    Quote Originally Posted by flashback8 View Post
    the tape's contents, I'll just say it's kinda like the older brother of the tape we're discussing. I'd have to dig it out of a box...somewhere in order to provide proof of my story. In any event, the intention was to share the goods. Next time....)
    I just wanted to say man, thank you for having that mindset. Even though it didn't come to fruition, I still appreciate the thought. Just curious, is it the younger brother of Hate yet older brother of Fragility? Even the mention of something like that is cool.

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    Quote Originally Posted by trollmanen View Post
    Wow, the seller has now added a $5,000 Buy It Now option. After seeing that, I'm inclined to agree that giving this person money is not worth it. We can only hope that whomever buys it, whenever the price is more realistic, will share it.
    Fuck this guy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by flashback8 View Post
    I believe his name was in the credits for either the "Fragility 2.0" special on MTV or in the tour program sold at the American (and European?) shows. He may have been working out of David's studio, or at least working in collaboration with David.



    Yeah. This bit me in the ass awhile back. Let's just say that I received a very interesting Betacam tape that a lot of NIN fans would love to see. Unfortunately, even after taking the tape to a place that specializes in difficult transfers, the tape snapped about halfway through. I suppose I could've spent a fortune and tried my luck with some firm in Hollywood that handles even more difficult transfers. As is, the tape was stored in a shed for many years. Not ideal in the least.

    (Regarding the tape's contents, I'll just say it's kinda like the older brother of the tape we're discussing. I'd have to dig it out of a box...somewhere in order to provide proof of my story. In any event, the intention was to share the goods. Next time....)
    I'd throw in the pot for helping you get whatever this is restored.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leviathant View Post
    Off the top of my head I can't think of where I got this notion, but I was under the impression that the visuals in Europe, particularly for The Way Out Is Through, might have been Peter Christopherson's work.
    Quote Originally Posted by flashback8 View Post
    I believe his name was in the credits for either the "Fragility 2.0" special on MTV or in the tour program sold at the American (and European?) shows. He may have been working out of David's studio, or at least working in collaboration with David.
    I just looked at the Fragility 1.0 TV special credits, and for Live Projections, it's credited to Trent Reznor, Gary Westcott, David Carson, and Peter Christopherson.

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    Forgive me, but I took the opportunity to e-mail David to see if he'd respond. Alas, it's not good news.

    It turns out he had a bunch of NIN tapes & reels stolen from his house (someone recently tried to sell him back some stolen works for 20k) & this is one of the stolen items. To quote him, "That price is crazy. U aware thats its all a bunch of underwater footege, a first version/edit
    With the 3 songs just added from the album? It wasnt used for anything as trent changed it all before it was ever used?"

    He was in contact with the seller who said they bought it from a third party instead of a storage locker. What blows is that he seemed open to getting the footage out if he still had the reels.

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