Trump 2018 - Trump Foundation ordered to dissolve, Flynn Sentencing Delayed

[Demogorgon]

Ok.. so fair open floor Demogorgon... how do you feel about Trump bending over for Putin today?

I think all of this could have been avoided long before Trump if the US (and Europe) would have at least TRIED to work on things with Russia rather than decade after decade of the "Red Menace" enforced by crippling sanctions and embargoes and tariffs that have lead to Russia's struggling economy, which is one of the prime reasons they are such assholes to everyone around them. Russia was backed into a corner, and they compensated. Are they blameless? No. Are they guilty of staggering human rights abuses? Yes. Are they guilty of more underhanded destabilizing shit than i think anyone will ever know in this lifetime? Yes. Do i think it could have been avoided? YES. But this is all 20/20 hindsight and it's too late now, and most of the civilized world is having to deal with a growing, antagonistic power that they helped create. Remove Trump from the equation and the problem doesn't go away. Do i think we should give them a pass because of all of this? No. They should be held accountable for whatever they may have done behind the scenes, and if it all leads straight to Trump and his pals, fine, whatever. I'm not going to cry about it one bit. But the point is that if not Trump, it would be someone else. And someone else after that, and someone else after that. We can attack the point man all day, and it won't fix the underlying issue of our shitty relations with another world power.

[richardp]

It feels really great seeing so many Republicans this pissed at Trump but I can't help but feel like everyone will be cuddled up to Trump's nuts the moment he gets back into the states.

Today's summit was like if George W had a face to face with Bin Laden and then proclaimed to the world that "Bin Laden is a strong guy heh heh but he didn't do 9/11". What a fucking piece of shit.

[allegate]

[Exocet]

Im pissed off that he gave Putin exactly what he wanted and has always wanted..to be seen as equals..giving him a SUMMIT implies Russia is a superpower, people were treating this meeting as if it were of equals as if it were the 1987 Gorbachev Reagan meeting.
I did not agree with calling the meeting with Kim Jong Un a summit either.

Russia has a smaller economy than Italy, capital flight out of the country is huge they have a low birth rate and the amount of people leaving the country is a massive problem. it spent less on its military last year than UK or France.

I agree the meeting is big as the amount of toxic shit that has gone down between the two countries since the last ' summit' is immense. ive never seen them this bad, and there are a LOT of issues to resolve. but yeah ive never for a second bought into this Russian might bullshit. the US is offering to supply Europe with energy anyway.
the one exception is regards to its Nuclear stockpile, it has an immense nuclear stockpile, that is the one thing that misleads people into thinking its something its not.

its just behaved like a dick the past few years, but its out of an immense inferiority complex and sense of loss that Is why it has been behaving this way, its mostly going to backfire, Putin is the one who will go down as having truly lost Ukraine after hundreds of years.

[Jinsai]

It feels really great seeing so many Republicans this pissed at Trump but I can't help but feel like everyone will be cuddled up to Trump's nuts the moment he gets back into the states.

Today's summit was like if George W had a face to face with Bin Laden and then proclaimed to the world that "Bin Laden is a strong guy heh heh but he didn't do 9/11". What a fucking piece of shit.

Yep... like "well, I asked him if he told them to fly the planes into the buildings and he said NO, I didn't! So... I think there were good people on both sides of the steering wheel."

[Jinsai]

Because the fucking president of the United States just allowed an aggressive foreign power to reframe the discussion, acted submissively, then accused his own country of being the fucking problem, and then openly trusted their intelligence against our own when it comes to whether or not they strategically acted to manipulate our free elections?

Jesus, could it get worse? There's nothing "partisan" about this! Do we need a Cold War refresher course for everyone who doesn't see how bad this could get?!

[WorzelG]

I appreciate all the blood in the water right now, but can anyone explain WHY it’s there in a bipartisan way?

People are saying things like “almost treason” but Trump didn’t do anything beyond look bad. It’s an image thing. He didn’t do anything tangible that was illegal, etc. All the tangible stuff to suggest something nesting treason was on the table before this. The way he handled himself with Putin didn’t add anything to that table.

I thought treason included giving succour to the ‘enemy’ and the whole treason thing depends on whether you see these acts as being of ‘war’. Does war have to be an aggressive military thing or could cyber warfare be included in warlike acts?

[Swykk]

Y’all ready for President Pence?
Loads of Republicans are aaaaangry

Can I do a second take on this, because https://twitter.com/vp/status/1018932839927119873?s=21

This creep is all in. If he wasn’t, he’d either be staying away or paying some typical John McCain-like lip service.

[Jinsai]

I thought treason included giving succour to the ‘enemy’ and the whole treason thing depends on whether you see these acts as being of ‘war’. Does war have to be an aggressive military thing or could cyber warfare be included in warlike acts?

A lot of people cling to this definition as strict gospel for what can and cannot be deemed "treason," but the effective end-point remains: the true horror of the definition lies in that you aided a foreign power that is hostile to the nation you are intended to defend. Modern concepts like proxy wars and cyber warfare render a strict/literal interpretation of the word anachronistic, but that's up to constitutional lawyers to argue about I guess...

In the meantime, nothing means shit until Republicans either lose power or grow a spine.

[Louie_Cypher]

i still have a bizarre fascination with trump supporters, like how much they defend him, and why. he's really done nothing for anything considered his base. look i know people want to be different, people defend all kinds of things i feel are undependable, like nickle-back,or being involved in computers especially Linux and refusing to use a command line line language like bash or even vi, i just don't get it
-Louie

[ekrekel]

....Remove Trump from the equation and the problem doesn't go away........ But the point is that if not Trump, it would be someone else. And someone else after that, and someone else after that. We can attack the point man all day, and it won't fix the underlying issue of our shitty relations with another world power.

Agreed that as long as there is a perceived or actual threat from Russia the President will be tasked with running the relationship in public settings. The problem I have with the "if not Trump, someone else" argument is it implies that Trump and "someone else" are equally as capable of handling the task. It's hard not to exaggerate here, but I think almost anyone could have handled the presser yesterday better. 3 years ago, 10 years ago, 30 years ago I'd be pretty comfortable saying almost all politicians, particularly the President, would have had a harder stance or at minimum a non-confrontational but very neutral stance toward our long time rival. Yesterday we saw, at best, our President defending Putin/Russia against US intelligence agencies.

[Haysey_Draws]

If the last 2 years isn't enough to get people off their butts and voting at the next set of elections then nothing will!

[Kodiak33]

i still have a bizarre fascination with trump supporters, like how much they defend him, and why. he's really done nothing for anything considered his base. look i know people want to be different, people defend all kinds of things i feel are undependable, like nickle-back,or being involved in computers especially Linux and refusing to use a command line line language like bash or even vi, i just don't get it
-Louie

I've said this before (awhile ago), evangelical people think that the Republican party is the only one to vote for because of God and Israel. You cannot convince them otherwise. Democrats need to get their numbers up, and independents need to show up.

[allegate]

Im pissed off that he gave Putin exactly what he wanted and has always wanted..to be seen as equals..giving him a SUMMIT implies Russia is a superpower, people were treating this meeting as if it were of equals as if it were the 1987 Gorbachev Reagan meeting.
I did not agree with calling the meeting with Kim Jong Un a summit either.

Russia has a smaller economy than Italy, capital flight out of the country is huge they have a low birth rate and the amount of people leaving the country is a massive problem. it spent less on its military last year than UK or France.

I agree the meeting is big as the amount of toxic shit that has gone down between the two countries since the last ' summit' is immense. ive never seen them this bad, and there are a LOT of issues to resolve. but yeah ive never for a second bought into this Russian might bullshit. the US is offering to supply Europe with energy anyway.
the one exception is regards to its Nuclear stockpile, it has an immense nuclear stockpile, that is the one thing that misleads people into thinking its something its not.

its just behaved like a dick the past few years, but its out of an immense inferiority complex and sense of loss that Is why it has been behaving this way, its mostly going to backfire, Putin is the one who will go down as having truly lost Ukraine after hundreds of years.

I was thinking this weekend: What happens when Putin dies? As I understand it, his entire power base is that he knows everything about everyone and that's what keeps the oligarchs in line but if he's gone and they are no longer afraid of him...what happens?

Also what kind of power vacuum would that create?

EDIT:

Fox News: Former President Barack Obama wants to start Civil War 2!

[Louie_Cypher]

i find this commentary interesting
-louie

[eachpassingphase]

i still have a bizarre fascination with trump supporters, like how much they defend him, and why. he's really done nothing for anything considered his base. look i know people want to be different, people defend all kinds of things i feel are undependable, like nickle-back,or being involved in computers especially Linux and refusing to use a command line line language like bash or even vi, i just don't get it
-Louie

Have you ever seen the "Prayers to Trump" subreddit? It's fascinating, a lot of Trump supporters tweet at him like they know him and like he's gonna personally intercede on his behalf. It's so very odd.

A few examples of the prayers to Trump

[Jinsai]

why are these "prayers for Trump" blocking out the names of the posters? How is Trump going to know where to send the Chevy truck if he can't see who asked for it?

also... how is this tweet real?!?!
https://mobile.twitter.com/realdonal...112640?lang=en

[onthewall2983]

[allegate]

Trump Now Says He Accepts U.S. Intelligence Reports on Russian Election Meddling

WASHINGTON — President Trump on Tuesday said he “accepts” the conclusion of his own intelligence agencies that Russia interfered in the 2016 election, just one day after he appeared to believe President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia and Mr. Putin’s “powerful” denial during a summit in Helsinki, Finland.

Talks big when he's out of grabbing distance, I guess.

[Jinsai]

Even when reading that prepared walk-back statement he couldn’t stop himself from ad-libbing “it could be other people also”

[allegate]

Nope, he can't help himself.

[theimage13]

I. AM. NOT. A TRUMP SUPPORTER.

Okay? Really. This is the last time i'm going to say it. I facepalmed you because of your "stolen seat" comment. No, i will not discuss it with you, because as i learned the last time i tried to discuss anything with most of you, you've already tuned me out and stereotyped me. I facepalmed, and i moved on. Simple. No subtext, no snark.

One of my proudest moments was when I looked at Barack Obama in the eye and I said, "Mr. President, you will not fill this Supreme Court vacancy."

The American people should have a voice in the selection of their next Supreme Court Justice. Therefore, this vavancy should not be filled until we have a new President.

The latter was literally the day Justice Scalia died. Really. The day he died - over half a year before the election - Mitch McConnell said in black and white that he would not even consider allowing a vote for the next Justice.

So please, I ask you as one rational person to another, explain how the seat occupied by Neil Gorsuch was not stolen by Mitch McConnell and the Republican party. By what logic was that not theft?

[Bajoobatron]

The latter was literally the day Justice Scalia died. Really. The day he died - over half a year before the election - Mitch McConnell said in black and white that he would not even consider allowing a vote for the next Justice.

So please, I ask you as one rational person to another, explain how the seat occupied by Neil Gorsuch was not stolen by Mitch McConnell and the Republican party. By what logic was that not theft?

It was theft, plain and simple. Turtle McFucknuts (McConnell) had a severe problem with a Democratic President. I don't know if it was divisive politics or just that Mitch is a racist piece of shit, but his insistence from the get-go that his goal was to make Obama a "one-term President" speaks volumes. For him to deny even a hearing for Garland, in accordance with his very public statements, makes it abundantly clear that he wanted to hijack Scalia's replacement until after the election in the hope that Trump would prevail.

McConnell plays the game very well, but he is still a fucking asshole and there should be no doubt in anyone's mind that he alone stole a seat on the Supreme Court for the Republicans. I'm not sure how anyone with access to the facts could come to a different conclusion.

[theimage13]

It was stolen.

Holy crap, welcome back. We've missed you 'round these parts.

[Louie_Cypher]

Holy crap, welcome back. We've missed you 'round these parts.

ditto
-louie

[baudolino]

wow, just wow

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/07/17/p...utm_term=image
https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...=.0ca5647f9a0f

[Louie_Cypher]

It was theft, plain and simple. Turtle McFucknuts (McConnell) had a severe problem with a Democratic President. I don't know if it was divisive politics or just that Mitch is a racist piece of shit, but his insistence from the get-go that his goal was to make Obama a "one-term President" speaks volumes. For him to deny even a hearing for Garland, in accordance with his very public statements, makes it abundantly clear that he wanted to hijack Scalia's replacement until after the election in the hope that Trump would prevail.

McConnell plays the game very well, but he is still a fucking asshole and there should be no doubt in anyone's mind that he alone stole a seat on the Supreme Court for the Republicans. I'm not sure how anyone with access to the facts could come to a different conclusion.

just read an article that i failed to bookmark that he had been briefed on the extent of the russain hack and influence on the 2016 election but covered it up. which would make sense to block the seat because he knew a republican would win. also Kennedy maid a deal to retire. what scares me is the right has this win by any means necessary rob lie, cheat, steal. we are doing nothing about what happened or anything to prevent it from happening again.
-louie

[allegate]

Huh, there's no way these two things are related. That's just crazy talk.

[Louie_Cypher]

curious why you think that is a far reach?
-Louie

[allegate]

Sorry, dropped a tag there.

[/sarcasm]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegals_Program

Holy balls, I totally forgot that this happened. I wonder if they're related in any way?