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Thread: Trump 2018

  1. #1381
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demogorgon View Post
    No, i don't think you do. But trying to have a discussion with any of you is like smashing my face against a brick wall. I can't believe i'm saying this, but i actually miss allegro's contributions here, because at least she'd engage in open conversation.
    You don’t actually want a discussion, though. You want your nonsensical way and you want to provoke your way into getting it. You’re far from the first to do this here. Your claim that Hillary is as bad as Trump was short sighted in 2016. It’s fucking crazy to say it now.

    The Supreme Court, immigration, alienating our allies, pardoning horrific people, “many sides,” destroying the environment, colluding and/or being compromised by Russia, starting a trade war, rolling back financial regulation, and so on. This isn’t difficult!

    I very publicly supported Bernie Sanders (voted for him in the primary), know that Hillary and the DNC fucked him and I STILL voted for her in the election because she’s STILL EONS BETTER THAN TRUMP.

    Not only do you not want a discussion but there’s none to be had here.
    Last edited by Swykk; 07-11-2018 at 12:12 PM.

  2. #1382
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    It's a fucking straw man. Get to the real point, Republicans want a conservative pick, they want it regardless, and YES, we don't want Trump to pick another seat, no matter what. That's cutting the shit, so cut the shit. McConnell admitted that he was proud of opposing Obama's SCOTUS pick, and now he wants to support Trump's ASAP.

    No amount of "look at this liberal with their makeshift sign" is going to distract from that reality.

    ALSO, are we watching this insane approach to the NATO summit? JESUS CHRIST!? Please, someone, tell me how much worse Hillary Clinton would be handling this?
    Last edited by Jinsai; 07-11-2018 at 12:16 PM.

  3. #1383
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    I'm having a hard time grasping your point here. I know what you're suggesting - and I think it's wrong. When you have a narcissistic, sociopathic serial liar running the show, you have every reason to think that his next move will be a disaster.

    If people had shown up to protest and Trump went "Merrick Garland," you think they'd blindly start shouting his nomination down? No. A *few* idiots might, but there will always be idiots of all political orientations.

    But you're talking about a pick that will very likely have severe detrimental consequences for literally decades to come - decidedly more so if yet another justice leaves / dies before he's out of office. I think people who have seen Trump's operations as both a horrible politician and a worse businessman / human being are wholly justified in being preemptively concerned for whatever far-reaching moves he's been mistakenly allowed to make.

    I get that to you it feels extreme - but given the precedent thus far, I'm not so quick to agree.

  4. #1384
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinsai View Post
    It's a fucking straw man. Get to the real point, Republicans want a conservative pick, they want it regardless, and YES, we don't want Trump to pick another seat, no matter what. That's cutting the shit, so cut the shit. McConnell admitted that he was proud of opposing Obama's SCOTUS pick, and now he wants to support Trump's ASAP.

    No amount of "look at this liberal with their makeshift sign" is going to distract from that reality.
    So, a redirect to republicans. Got it.
    Well, I am glad that the panic machine is no longer dominated by the white, cis, patriarchy of Fox News. We have now achieve proper diversity within that political apparatus. All of the left is on that dick now.

  5. #1385
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    So, a redirect to republicans. Got it.
    Well, I am glad that the panic machine is no longer dominated by the white, cis, patriarchy of Fox News. We have now achieve proper diversity within that political apparatus. All of the left is on that dick now.
    Libertarians = Republicans, with this look on their face when they're called out on it.


  6. #1386
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swykk View Post
    You don’t actually want a discussion, though.
    If i wanted to make statements and not provoke discussion, i'd have kept my twitter account.

    You want your nonsensical way and you want to provoke your way into getting it.
    Wrong. I want to discuss things without it devolving into apopleptic "FUCK TRUMP SHIT DAMN IT TRUMP ARGH!!" every other post, because that is not constructive, and yet it seems like the only thing many people here are interested in doing.

    Your claim that Hillary is as bad as Trump was short sighted in 2016. It’s fucking crazy to say it now.
    Wrong again. We are involved in 5 actual combat situations across the globe and at least 2, maybe three Cold Wars that, judging by her statements and voting record, Hillary had no intention of pulling us away from. She also would have made ZERO civil rights progress with a Republican majority in Congress, and so she would resort to executive orders like Obama, and these would then be torn apart and ruined just like the ACA. All of the things Trump is doing can be (and have been many times) legally challenged, and if there wasn't a Republican majority spurring him on, he would get nothing accomplished at all.

    The Supreme Court, immigration, alienating our allies, pardoning horrific people, “many sides,” destroying the environment, colluding and/or being compromised by Russia, starting a trade war, rolling back financial regulation, and so on.
    Immigration is broken, and it needs fixed, and nobody was going to fix it. People needed to see how bad it really was, and even though it took a slimeball doing slimeball shit to do it, people are finally waking up and taking action. People are engaged like never before. Under Hillary, we would have the same level of apathy we've had for decades, and the suffering would continue. And if you think a Republican majority in Congress would have accepted ANY Supreme Court nomination from Hillary, then maybe you should remember Obama and how we ended up with Gorsuch. None of this is cut and dry, and reducing it to "well, things would be better under so-and-so" is refusing to actually address the problems.

    Not only do you not want a discussion but there’s none to be had here.
    Not with you, apparently. But fine, whatever. Just like any time someone posits an outlier opinion, obviously that person is just trolling and deserves a good ol' group beatdown. You folks enjoy your Trump bashing pity party. Don't forget to vote in the midterms, because your opposition definitely will.

  7. #1387
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    So like I said, nonsensical. Topped with weak whataboutism sauce.

  8. #1388
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    Quote Originally Posted by theimage13 View Post
    I get that to you it feels extreme - but given the precedent thus far, I'm not so quick to agree.
    It's not the extreme that I am pointing out. It's the indiscriminate outrage. Everything and anything is immediately the end of the fucking world, and its to the point they are prepped in advance to catch any possibility to cast that type of light on it. It's the same bullshit we saw from Fox News, and it absolutely waters down any legitimate gripes people DO have.

  9. #1389
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swykk View Post
    So like I said, nonsensical. Topped with weak whataboutism sauce.
    In other words, "TL;DR, i think demo is a troll so fingers in my ears neener neener neener you're so dumb haha look at this dummy".

    Guess i expected too much, again.

  10. #1390
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    Yeah for some people it could be the ďend of the worldĒ. Issues like immigration and abortion access affect the poorest of people. Decisions by the SCOTUS affect lives. It is urgent.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  11. #1391
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    It's not the extreme that I am pointing out. It's the indiscriminate outrage. Everything and anything is immediately the end of the fucking world
    MAN, shit is REALLY BAD. This is bad. This is fucking insane. I didn't like Bush Jr, Sr, or Reagan, but this IS FUCKING DIFFERENT.

  12. #1392
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    Itís always ďdifferentĒ and just about everything the govt does is life impacting. Nominating this SCOTUS candidate is not measurably different from any recent history.

  13. #1393
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    It's not the extreme that I am pointing out. It's the indiscriminate outrage. Everything and anything is immediately the end of the fucking world, and its to the point they are prepped in advance to catch any possibility to cast that type of light on it. It's the same bullshit we saw from Fox News, and it absolutely waters down any legitimate gripes people DO have.
    But everything you're pointing out is directly related to the SCOTUS pick, which is a huge deal and people were (and are) justified in being worried about it. That's not "anything and everything". People were simply preparing for a very specific piece of bad news - which, unsurprisingly, is exactly what they got.

  14. #1394
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    Quote Originally Posted by theimage13 View Post
    But everything you're pointing out is directly related to the SCOTUS pick, which is a huge deal and people were (and are) justified in being worried about it. That's not "anything and everything". People were simply preparing for a very specific piece of bad news - which, unsurprisingly, is exactly what they got.
    Iím pointing at it because itís one of the most blatant examples of a pattern Iíve been watching. If you all really want to go 0-100% on everything, go for it. But everyone would be a lot better off if the focus was reserved for specific things.

  15. #1395
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demogorgon View Post
    In other words, "TL;DR, i think demo is a troll so fingers in my ears neener neener neener you're so dumb haha look at this dummy".

    Guess i expected too much, again.
    I read it and summarized. Never called you dumb. Say, did you read what I wrote?!

    I expect way too much too; like reason, for example.

  16. #1396
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    Look: I know that taking one single still photo can remove context. But this just feels too perfect a symbol of the entire world political climate right now.


  17. #1397
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    Before anyone asks: It's backwards because it's in French.

    The North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO /ˈneɪtoʊ/; French: Organisation du Traitť de l'Atlantique Nord; OTAN)

  18. #1398
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    It’s always “different” and just about everything the govt does is life impacting. Nominating this SCOTUS candidate is not measurably different from any recent history.
    but it's NOT always fucking insane. This is "different " in a way that feels fucking insane, and to have to explain that difference (even in superlative but vague terms) makes me feel even more fucking insane

  19. #1399
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinsai View Post
    but it's NOT always fucking insane. This is "different " in a way that feels fucking insane, and to have to explain that difference (even in superlative but vague terms) makes me feel even more fucking insane
    Try getting feedback from people who have a lot of knowledge on a specific panic item AND who are also a variety of strong independent, (not party-leaning flavors).

    Current party alignment has created this fucked up political ďautotuneĒ that gates almost everyone into an extreme rhetoric.

    Iíve pretty much given up on everyone and have to watch people burn their lives down. I sure wish these people didnít have an eventual influence on my life though. It results in a level of helplessness for me that you are nowhere near yet. Trust me.

  20. #1400
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    Digitalchaos, a reality tv Star with no idea what he's doing is president and he's now telling our closest allies to fuck off. I dunno... this seems kinda "new and exciting " yeah? It's also terrifying but if that's your thing...

  21. #1401
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    I mean, I absolutely agree that the hyperbole the left gets into is dangerous and bad. I think we're already really fucked without getting even more worked about extra possible shades of being fucked.

  22. #1402
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    At this point, freaking out is NOT hyperbole

  23. #1403
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    Quote Originally Posted by playwithfire View Post
    I mean, I absolutely agree that the hyperbole the left gets into is dangerous and bad. I think we're already really fucked without getting even more worked about extra possible shades of being fucked.
    I'm pushing back on this only because I'm guilty of this myself -

    A lot of us got really complacent from 2008-2016 and we're 100% paying for that now. We showed up for elections every four years instead of really paying attention to Congress, and we ended up letting a lot of this come to fruition because Obama was president. It wasn't enough. We made progressivism reliant on Obama vetoing efforts to repeal Obamacare and giving the presidency too much power. They had a 30 year plan and it's now hitting it's ultimate goal. I still don't think enough people are freaking out enough, honestly.

  24. #1404
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    Hey I was freaking out about the president being given way too much power. But Obama made killing children great again. You wanna talk about feeling crazy, immediately after the Bush years.

    The GOP was complaining about it too. Now they are loving that their president gets to use it. Goddamned hypocrites.


    But for real, no sarcasm, itís cool of you to point it out. Thatís a rarity. But how does it get fixed? Whoís going to reduce power? Youíd have to vote in a fucking libertarian or anarchist to get that kind of change right now. Or the party platform needs significant change... but by the time they get elected in itíll be Obama myopia all over again.

  25. #1405
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinsai View Post
    At this point, freaking out is NOT hyperbole
    No, I mean literal hyperbole. Like, "Roy Moore is a pedophile" and "the cake ruling is a huge blow for gay rights" and parroting summaries that prioritize emotional impact over accuracy. Because shit is bad enough without needing hyperbole. I said what I said.

  26. #1406
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    I try not to get into it too much these days, because pedantry is a tool of fascists. So while I find people copping to a lot of strategies they get butthurt about the bad guys utilizing, like hyperbole and doxxing and playing telephone with headlines, I do recognize that overall impact matters and I don't want to detract from shit too much.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lt. Randazzo View Post
    I still don't think enough people are freaking out enough, honestly.
    I think shit is really bad. I don't think taking stuff seriously and being loud about it is equivalent to bad hyperbole.

  27. #1407
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    ... or maybe itís the panic machine thatís got you worn out? Itís weird watching all the lefties go full Fox News and not even recognize it. Itís gonna make for a wonderful future. Especially when they completely refuse that reality when presented with blatant evidence.
    So here's some context that might help you understand where I'm coming from, I hope you don't hear hostility in my words here because that's really not what I'm trying to go for.

    My youngest child is severely disabled. She had a stroke right before she was born, a severe one that normally results in death, but she survived with profound physical and intellectual disabilities. It just happens sometimes, and there's nothing you can do about it. My pregnancy was perfectly healthy up until that point, so nobody could have predicted it. There are some very serious, personal implications for our family depending on how things pan out politically over the next few years.

    My husband and I both had good jobs with health insurance when she was born, we had ZERO debt, savings, and a retirement fund. A lucky coincidence was that my career was in managing group homes for adults with developmental disabilities, so despite the shock, I was well-prepared emotionally for this. If any family should have been able to handle this situation without worrying about what the government does, it should have been ours.

    However, nobody is ever really prepared for a situation like ours. Our lives changed pretty rapidly, and now we depend on certain laws, organizations, and institutions that our current administration is openly opposed to and attacks. We have no other options, and people with far more power and influence than we do get to make calls that directly affect us.

    What our government does as it pertains to health care is scary for us, because our daughter can die as a result of those actions. What our government does as it pertains to education is scary for us, because our daughter can be mistreated in school (or just be denied an education) as a result of those actions. That fear isn't the result of kneejerk responses on our end: I've seen this play out. Many of my former clients grew up in a time when people with disabilities were denied basic care and dignity. I've seen what happened when some of these protections don't exist for people like my daughter. The laws that we have now have changed things for the better, and I don't want them to return to the way they were before. But when the secretary of education can't affirm her support for things like IDEA, and other politicians are talking about dismantling the ACA, that's scary. I don't think it is irrational to be afraid of those things.

    What reality am I refusing? Show me the evidence that my daughter is better off with this administration in power than she would have been with Clinton and I'll believe you. Seriously, I'm not being facetious and I'm not trying to be unkind to you. I would love to know that my daughter is better off with Trump as president so that I could stop worrying. I have plenty to worry about without that. If you can show me proof that my family has nothing to be afraid of from Trump, his friends, and other Republicans, then that would be a weight off my shoulders.

    I agree that Hilary Clinton was not a politician I believed had a ton of integrity, and I wasn't happy with her nomination. But my family doesn't have the luxury of taking a stand on principle.

  28. #1408
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    Quote Originally Posted by eachpassingphase View Post
    So here's some context that might help you understand where I'm coming from, I hope you don't hear hostility in my words here because that's really not what I'm trying to go for.

    My youngest child is severely disabled. She had a stroke right before she was born, a severe one that normally results in death, but she survived with profound physical and intellectual disabilities. It just happens sometimes, and there's nothing you can do about it. My pregnancy was perfectly healthy up until that point, so nobody could have predicted it. There are some very serious, personal implications for our family depending on how things pan out politically over the next few years.

    My husband and I both had good jobs with health insurance when she was born, we had ZERO debt, savings, and a retirement fund. A lucky coincidence was that my career was in managing group homes for adults with developmental disabilities, so despite the shock, I was well-prepared emotionally for this. If any family should have been able to handle this situation without worrying about what the government does, it should have been ours.

    However, nobody is ever really prepared for a situation like ours. Our lives changed pretty rapidly, and now we depend on certain laws, organizations, and institutions that our current administration is openly opposed to and attacks. We have no other options, and people with far more power and influence than we do get to make calls that directly affect us.

    What our government does as it pertains to health care is scary for us, because our daughter can die as a result of those actions. What our government does as it pertains to education is scary for us, because our daughter can be mistreated in school (or just be denied an education) as a result of those actions. That fear isn't the result of kneejerk responses on our end: I've seen this play out. Many of my former clients grew up in a time when people with disabilities were denied basic care and dignity. I've seen what happened when some of these protections don't exist for people like my daughter. The laws that we have now have changed things for the better, and I don't want them to return to the way they were before. But when the secretary of education can't affirm her support for things like IDEA, and other politicians are talking about dismantling the ACA, that's scary. I don't think it is irrational to be afraid of those things.

    What reality am I refusing? Show me the evidence that my daughter is better off with this administration in power than she would have been with Clinton and I'll believe you. Seriously, I'm not being facetious and I'm not trying to be unkind to you. I would love to know that my daughter is better off with Trump as president so that I could stop worrying. I have plenty to worry about without that. If you can show me proof that my family has nothing to be afraid of from Trump, his friends, and other Republicans, then that would be a weight off my shoulders.

    I agree that Hilary Clinton was not a politician I believed had a ton of integrity, and I wasn't happy with her nomination. But my family doesn't have the luxury of taking a stand on principle.
    I cried the day after the election thinking about what he would do to healthcare. Iím so sorry you are dealing with so much. I really wish empathy was a conservative value. I really wish it wasnít this way.


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  29. #1409
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    Quote Originally Posted by eachpassingphase View Post
    I agree that Hilary Clinton was not a politician I believed had a ton of integrity, and I wasn't happy with her nomination. But my family doesn't have the luxury of taking a stand on principle.
    For the record, the post of yours I replied to was about the SCOTUS nomination and a general comment about being worn down. So that was the scope of my reply.

    To address your specific ACA issue: there are absolutely people who will be harmed more by one president over the other. There are lots of deaths that Hillary would have caused by now that didnít happen with Trump (ex: droned children). But back to ACA, there are no easy answers anymore for a lot of things weíve gotten ourselves into. My biggest opposition to ACA before it happened was that it gave govt another thing to hold over our heads. They now get to threaten to take it away if you donít vote a certain way... this is NOT heathy democracy for exactly the reason in the portion of your post I am quoting. And it sucks.

  30. #1410
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    Where are you @allegro ?

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