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Thread: Trump 2018

  1. #151
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    that's true... Trump was the Rust Belt superstar. His prominence, as unlikely as it was, is largely why he won.

    We should probably consider, on a side note, that saying "hey, fuck you Rust Belt!!!" is going to backlash.

    Even if it's true.
    Last edited by Jinsai; 01-17-2018 at 02:21 PM.

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinsai View Post
    that's true... Trump was the Rust Belt superstar. His prominence, as unlikely as it was, is largely why he won.

    We should probably consider, on a side note, that saying "hey, fuck you Rust Belt!!!" is going to backlash.

    Even if it's true.
    Easy for you to say, coming from the cushy liberal confines of California. But these Rust Belt people have experienced financial hardship, unemployment, closing of factories, corruption, etc. AND, Clinton BARELY covered them; she spent more time in purple states like Nevada and Arizona than in Ohio or Michigan. She sent a message: "I don't care about you." BILL Clinton, a guy who WON (twice) as a populist candidate from the South, WARNED the DNC about their neglecting these areas of the country, but they told Bill to fuck off.

    Ultimately, the DNC and voters who didn't bother voting are why we have Trump.

    Obama AND the new Democratic Senator of Alabama were elected by black women.

    Present an ELECTABLE option and ... there ya go.

    Clinton lost due to her placing her focus on two incorrect areas: She's a woman, and Trump's an asshole.

    So she ignored all of the ways she could help people in need or without jobs or without healthcare, etc.

    We have to stop pointing at the Cheetoh in office as something we have to get rid of, and see, instead, how we got to this point and how to avoid it.

    Bernie Sanders should have run as an Independent. But, he still wasn't likely to get the minority vote like an Obama.
    Last edited by allegro; 01-17-2018 at 02:29 PM.

  3. #153
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    OK... I deleted my last post because I forgot to not make shit personal on here... but come the fuck on. The "coastal elites" fucking GET IT.

    We're not covering our ears when we hear about the things the rust belt is sad about.
    We hear it. All of it. Some is justified and some of it is RACIST AS FUCK.

    And Trump is the racist misogynist cheerleader.
    Last edited by Jinsai; 01-17-2018 at 03:07 PM.

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinsai View Post
    OK... I deleted my last post because I forgot to not make shit personal on here... but come the fuck on. The "coastal elites" fucking GET IT.

    We're not covering our ears when we hear about the things the rust belt is sad about.
    We hear it. All of it. Some is justified and some of it is RACIST AS FUCK.

    And Trump is the racist misogynist cheerleader.
    Look, I'M not saying you're Coastal Elite as a jab ... compared to the DEEP SOUTH you ARE. It is what it is. It's all relative.

    And the Rust Belt isn't racist as fuck. They didn't elect Trump because of racism; they elected Trump in the Rust Belt because:

    (a) They think politics is rife with elite corruption that only serves the top percentage of rich people and white collar and completely ignores blue collar;

    (b) To them, Trump is the epitome of "non-political." He doesn't play the game, he plays his own game. He isn't even playing the Republican game;

    (c) To them, Trump has started his OWN party, the Trump party. Which is separate from the Republican gamesmanship in Washington;

    (d) To them, Clinton was the epitome of corruption. But, bottom line, NO Republicans would EVER vote for a Democrat, even if Jesus Himself was the Democratic candidate, because:

    (e) GUNS

    Meanwhile, while they're watching the circus and taking the free bread, the Southern voters are missing the fact that the South has never recovered from the Civil War, economically. The true "shit hole" is the American South, which has HUGE swaths of wide open areas with lots of people and ZERO employment and generations of Southern white folks collecting Disability checks. That's the reality.

    Yet, who do they keep electing? People who want to take away "entitlements" and health insurance and Medicaid ... but, you can keep your GUNS.

    Plato may be ultimately right: Democracy doesn't work because most voters are too fucking stupid.

    EXHIBIT A

    Trump is Trump. He lives in his own world, from birth. He has never wanted for anything, and he's basically a rich Archie Bunker.

    There's a REASON why that show was so popular: it resonated with people because Archie Bunker represented a LOT of Americans. HE STILL DOES. And the worst part? They themselves don't see it. They swear they're "not racist" or "some of their best friends are black people" or their lawyer is a Jew or whatever, but they don't see that they are the problem.

    Last edited by allegro; 01-17-2018 at 06:06 PM.

  5. #155
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    that's the part that confounds me... they're "voting for their team but it's gotta be an outsider," but they want someone with their team's "R" but doesn't get along with their team... the "cuck" thing comes to mind too... it's fucking confusing.

    Guns?

    ...also, there's something kinda racist/sexist/super-stupid going on here.
    Last edited by Jinsai; 01-17-2018 at 03:18 PM.

  6. #156
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    @allego 2020

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by theimage13 View Post
    @allego 2020
    Why not...

    I just wish I could figure out what the fuck is going on here. Everything Allegro is saying is plausible... it just doesn't cover the racist/narcissist angle of appeal. Also, that the people voting for this guy are REALLY really really really REALLY fucking stupid.

    And does that mean, by large, Americans are dumb?
    Last edited by Jinsai; 01-17-2018 at 03:28 PM.

  8. #158
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    America has, for the most part, been a country made up of individualists, not collectivists. In for yourself and your own benefit, vs. the collective benefit of others. (See many Asian cultures for an example; "the nail that stands out gets hammered back down" vs we are a bunch of nails standing up)

    Selfies, Facebook, Snapchat, etc. are all examples of our individualistic (and even narcissistic) tendencies as a culture.

    In the age of YouTube stars, Social Media, the Kardashians, the Housewives of (insert here), Sister Wives, and parents gleefully posting 200 photos a day of their kids online as if each one is a special snowflake, it's no wonder the Commander in Chief is just a reflection of our own self-obsessed culture.

    Slowly, though, that is evolving into something more collectivistic. It may take a few generations but it's coming.

    Look at Henry Ford, for example. Innovative, but he also paid his employees a fair enough wage, and priced his automobiles at a fair enough price, for his own employees to be able to purchase the automobiles that they built.

    During WW2, we had the Works Progress Administration (or the WPA), which actually employed my paternal grandfather for a while during the Depression.

    Could we have something like that NOW?

    We SHOULD.
    Last edited by allegro; 01-17-2018 at 06:04 PM.

  9. #159
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    i still think this will be his save face way out of office. with bannon testifying new kakistan money laundering allegations good watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YexnrlGhNEY
    -Louie

  10. #160
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    I just read the David Foster Wallace essay about McCain's run against Bush Jr. in 2000. It reminded me of Bernie and Trump in the way McCain was galvanizing voters in ways that surprised people. Really interesting read with today's eyes.
    Last edited by allegate; 01-17-2018 at 04:17 PM.

  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinsai View Post
    Also, that the people voting for this guy are REALLY really really really REALLY fucking stupid.

    And does that mean, by large, Americans are dumb?
    Another dangerous generalization. Of the few people I know who (admittedly) voted for him, one is a top-of-their-class grad from an Ivy League school who went on to accelerated promotions in the armed forces before coming back, whizzing through law school, and being gainfully employed before they had even finished. Not exactly what I would called "really really really really really really really fucking stupid".

    Yes, a LOT of really stupid people voted for him. But guess what? A lot of really stupid people voted for Clinton, too. And a lot of really smart people voted for Trump. To act as though only some cartoon toothless rednecks voted him in is to ignore how he actually won the election, and that goes ahead and sets us up for four more years. The only real stupid thing to do here is underestimate his base and pretend that anyone with a pulse would handily beat him in the next election.

  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    During WW2, we had the Works Progress Administration (or the WPA), which actually employed my paternal grandfather for a while during the Depression.

    Could we have something like that NOW?

    We SHOULD.
    Jesus fucking christ, YES. We have infrastructure issues in this country. We have unemployment issues in this country. How is it that we haven't figured out a way to go "wait...why not give all these people a living wage to go out and fix things that need fixing"? I mean, I know it's not literally as simple as that. But the base concept is incredibly simple and I can't imagine a partisan reason to be against it. One of my favorite places in the world is a state park about an hour from here, and it wasn't until my 20s that I noticed one of the plaques in the park that noted that the bridge I was walking over - and frankly, just about the whole park - was the result of the WPA. So yeah, count me in as a huge fan of bringing back something like that.

  13. #163
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    Maybe we can have a Nixon/Agnew-redux--two for the price of one. Does Pence have some kickback scandal in Maryland we don't know about? Then we wait out President Ryan until Biden is sworn in in 2021.

  14. #164
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    Meanwhile, forget Stormy Daniels ...

    THIS is some crazy awesome shit!!!

    A DEMOCRAT wins a Wisconsin State Senate seat that’s been held by Republicans for nearly twenty years.

  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    Meanwhile, forget Stormy Daniels ...
    crossword puzzle......

  16. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by theimage13 View Post
    Another dangerous generalization. Of the few people I know who (admittedly) voted for him, one is a top-of-their-class grad from an Ivy League school who went on to accelerated promotions in the armed forces before coming back, whizzing through law school, and being gainfully employed before they had even finished. Not exactly what I would called "really really really really really really really fucking stupid".

    Yes, a LOT of really stupid people voted for him. But guess what? A lot of really stupid people voted for Clinton, too. And a lot of really smart people voted for Trump. To act as though only some cartoon toothless rednecks voted him in is to ignore how he actually won the election, and that goes ahead and sets us up for four more years. The only real stupid thing to do here is underestimate his base and pretend that anyone with a pulse would handily beat him in the next election.
    I'm not underestimating or diminishing anything, I'm asking "WHAT THE FUCK?!"

    Have you asked your smart friend that? I have family that voted for him, and their reasons are really dumb, and entirely related to hating Hillary. The psychology behind that is sadly transparent.

    I know some smart people who voted for Trump, and it was for selfish reasons that they're coy about admitting to.
    Last edited by Jinsai; 01-17-2018 at 09:29 PM.

  17. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sister Midnight View Post
    crossword puzzle......
    Lol lol !

    Meanwhile ... this DACA stuff is getting totally nuts, this is a really good read:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/power...=.beca33948f71

    @Jinsai re smart people for Trump: Republican tribal divide. They wanted a Republican President to obtain a Supermajority to get things like this tax bill.
    Last edited by allegro; 01-17-2018 at 09:36 PM.

  18. #168
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    Well now that Trump just held his "awards ceremony for dishonest media" can we ask our friends again, why the fuck did you support this motherfucker?

  19. #169
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    Ohhh yes we can’t forget to mention Jeff Flake comparing Trump’s language regarding the press (calling the press the “enemy of the people”) to Joseph Stalin:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...lin-annotated/

    “The enemy of the people,” was what the president of the United States called the free press in 2017.

    Mr. President, it is a testament to the condition of our democracy that our own president uses words infamously spoken by Josef Stalin to describe his enemies

  20. #170
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    Stalin, Goebbels... He's just like the best of the Josephs. Tremendous.

    It's just... how is this STILL acceptable to any intelligent person? OK, I can accept that a smart person would have voted for him, for whatever reason... how can an intelligent person STILL support him?

    The only "smart" person that I know who still supports him is my brother, and it's because he is an unabashed asshole who will tell you straight up to your face that he likes money more than your opinion. What he won't tell you is that he's kind of a dumbass when it comes to macroeconomics, and that he's a bigot.
    Last edited by Jinsai; 01-17-2018 at 09:52 PM.

  21. #171
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    Only the Republicans would attempt to blame the Democrats for a government shutdown when the Republicans control the house and senate and have a boob in the white house. As the media will pick up on this say around Friday, Trump will have to do some crazy shit to distract the voters and the news junkies from this reality. The problem is Trump is running out of grandiose things to do to get media attention, when the President of the United States pays a porn star $130,000 to cover up an affair and it basically gets no media attention. Trump is running out of things to distract people with. So as we head to a government shutdown on Friday, it is always fun to guess what Trump will do to distract attention from that.
    I think he is going to burn a cross on the white house lawn and hold a KKK rally at the White House, that should distract the public and the media, get your tiki torches ready.....

  22. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sister Midnight View Post
    Only the Republicans would attempt to blame the Democrats for a government shutdown when the Republicans control the house and senate and have a boob in the white house. As the media will pick up on this say around Friday, Trump will have to do some crazy shit to distract the voters and the news junkies from this reality. The problem is Trump is running out of grandiose things to do to get media attention, when the President of the United States pays a porn star $130,000 to cover up an affair and it basically gets no media attention. Trump is running out of things to distract people with. So as we head to a government shutdown on Friday, it is always fun to guess what Trump will do to distract attention from that.
    I think he is going to burn a cross on the white house lawn and hold a KKK rally at the White House, that should distract the public and the media, get your tiki torches ready.....
    This IS the problem. Sarah Huckabee Sanders might as well make a loud farting sound as a response to a question regarding any stupid shit Trump is doing, and it'll get the same traction. Republicans will hold the tiki torch until the mid terms, and then crucify him asap, because then shit's gonna get real and the free ride is over.

    In other news, Bannon just struck a deal to avoid having to incriminate himself through testimony.

    I don't want to sound dismissive of the points @theimage13 is making, but I really implore everyone to please listen to that testimony from the doctor. He claims he is .1 short of being obese. He claims he is six foot three and weighs 239 pounds.

    HE IS ALSO OBESE.

    This isn't like Trump denying global warming. I'm not denying science. Trump's doctor just told me he isn't crazy, and also he isn't overweight.

    If Trump isn't overweight, I'm crazy.
    Last edited by Jinsai; 01-17-2018 at 10:41 PM.

  23. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinsai View Post
    Some is justified and some of it is RACIST AS FUCK.
    I'm not going to sit here and tell you the rest belt isn't racist as fuck because they sure the hell can be. But to simplify the problems (re: elections) for this area as "some of their problems is that they're racist as fuck" grossly over-simplifies the problem as well as what we can do to get them to vote for people who aren't, well, Trump.
    And a big one BIG one that the DNC overlooks is this:

    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post

    (e) GUNS

    ...

    Yet, who do they keep electing? People who want to take away "entitlements" and health insurance and Medicaid ... but, you can keep your GUNS.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jinsai View Post

    Guns?
    Yes. Guns. It's a BIG deal in this region. Big enough that if you had a shit shitty shit shitter as a candidate who was pro-guns and literally Jesus Christ reborn but wanting a "common sense gun policy" as the other, they'd vote for shit-face. Because guns. The anti-Hillary yard signs came and left, but the "repeal the S.A.F.E. act" and other pro-2nd amendment signs (as well as bumper stickers, window clings, hats, shirts, tattoos, etc) have been around pretty much forever. Hell, on local government (city, county, state) surveys, there is always AT LEAST one question about gun laws.
    Guns are huge in the rust belt. Like, to the point where a literal tree-hugging hippie liberal snowflake bleeding heart fuck like me owns guns. Because GUNS.

  24. #174
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    Let me clarify... I'm not saying every Trump supporter in the rust belt is racist... I'm saying that there's a lot of racists who hear the dog whistle, and there's a lot of people in the rust belt who certainly don't have a problem with racism, its appeal, and even tacitly endorse it (despite not being racists) if it reaches a mutual goal.

    I don't even know if Trump is a racist. I know he LIKES racists.

  25. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinsai View Post
    This IS the problem. Sarah Huckabee Sanders might as well make a loud farting sound as a response to a question regarding any stupid shit Trump is doing, and it'll get the same traction. Republicans will hold the tiki torch until the mid terms, and then crucify him asap, because then shit's gonna get real and the free ride is over.

    In other news, Bannon just struck a deal to avoid having to incriminate himself through testimony.

    I don't want to sound dismissive of the points @theimage13 is making, but I really implore everyone to please listen to that testimony from the doctor. He claims he is .1 short of being obese. He claims he is six foot three and weighs 239 pounds.

    HE IS ALSO OBESE.

    This isn't like Trump denying global warming. I'm not denying science. Trump's doctor just told me he isn't crazy, and also he isn't overweight.

    If Trump isn't overweight, I'm crazy.
    Trump likely provided his height to the physician, likely to lower his BMI.

    Here’s the thing, though:

    This is what ALWAYS happens when it comes to a President’s health.

    Americans at the time did not know that JFK suffered constant pain from a back injury (PT boat) and was on constant pain drugs and swam in the WH pool to try to alleviate pain. JFK also had Addison’s disease.

    Americans did not know that FDR was confined to a wheelchair.

    Eisenhower had a heart attack while in office and it was kept top secret.

    Reagan had the beginnings of Alzheimer’s during the last two years of his final term, but it was kept secret.

    See this: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.f887773aa852
    Last edited by allegro; 01-18-2018 at 12:28 AM.

  26. #176
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    Okay, another question for you, @allegro

    I was reading last night that Cohen was pressed on the whole Stormy Daniels payoff thing. He was answering questions about it, until they got to "did you ever arrange a payment to this person," at which point he refused to provide an answer either way. Does that scream "yes, I arranged a payment" to you? I can't think of a reason not to say "no" unless he knows he'd be perjuring himself, but I know you generally have much more knowledge of/experience with that world than I do.

  27. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    Trump likely provided his height to the physician, likely to lower his BMI.

    Here’s the thing, though:

    This is what ALWAYS happens when it comes to a President’s health.

    Americans at the time did not know that JFK suffered constant pain from a back injury (PT boat) and was on constant pain drugs and swam in the WH pool to try to alleviate pain. JFK also had Addison’s disease.

    Americans did not know that FDR was confined to a wheelchair.

    Eisenhower had a heart attack while in office and it was kept top secret.

    Reagan had the beginnings of Alzheimer’s during the last two years of his final term, but it was kept secret.

    See this: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.f887773aa852
    But this is what we know about Trump so far.....

    He has a possible golden shower tape that he may be blackmailed for

    He likes golden showers

    He pays off porn stars for their silence

    and he non-consentially takes a cheeseburger to bed with him every night

    This sounds less like a medical health measure, and more like Motley Crue Behind The Music.

  28. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by theimage13 View Post
    Okay, another question for you, @allegro

    I was reading last night that Cohen was pressed on the whole Stormy Daniels payoff thing. He was answering questions about it, until they got to "did you ever arrange a payment to this person," at which point he refused to provide an answer either way. Does that scream "yes, I arranged a payment" to you? I can't think of a reason not to say "no" unless he knows he'd be perjuring himself, but I know you generally have much more knowledge of/experience with that world than I do.
    Who was questioning him? Was he under oath?

    I was watching MSNBC last night and they were discussing how a bunch of the Trump team, upon being questioned by Congress (Congressional Investigation Committee), are flat out refusing to answer, aren’t invoking executive privilege (probably isn’t grounds), just refusing to answer. And I guess forcing them to answer would require a “Contempt of Congress” procedure which is evidently drawn out and a pain in the ass. But they (legal experts and talking heads on MSNBC) said that it is likely that the Grand Jury or Mueller will talk with them and THEN they aren’t likely to pull that shit because then they WILL be forced to answer. So Congress has no teeth? But this refusing to answer appears to be an organized plan.

  29. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    Who was questioning him? Was he under oath?

    I was watching MSNBC last night and they were discussing how a bunch of the Trump team, upon being questioned by Congress (Congressional Investigation Committee), are flat out refusing to answer, aren’t invoking executive privilege (probably isn’t grounds), just refusing to answer. And I guess forcing them to answer would require a “Contempt of Congress” procedure which is evidently drawn out and a pain in the ass. But they (legal experts and talking heads on MSNBC) said that it is likely that the Grand Jury or Mueller will talk with them and THEN they aren’t likely to pull that shit because then they WILL be forced to answer. So Congress has no teeth? But this refusing to answer appears to be an organized plan.
    Alas, in the flurry of things I've heard/seen/read lately, I don't recall where this came from. I believe the general context was that Cohen was being questioned by reporters, so I'm assuming that wouldn't be "under oath" but could clearly be used later were he to say otherwise while under oath.

    And in regard to the rest of your post, I'm assuming that this is Mueller has allegedly handed Bannon a grand jury summons - as a way to either get him on record in a more meaningful setting than the congressional things, or as a bargaining chip to get him to speak more candidly in a face to face setting.

  30. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by theimage13 View Post
    Alas, in the flurry of things I've heard/seen/read lately, I don't recall where this came from. I believe the general context was that Cohen was being questioned by reporters, so I'm assuming that wouldn't be "under oath" but could clearly be used later were he to say otherwise while under oath.

    And in regard to the rest of your post, I'm assuming that this is Mueller has allegedly handed Bannon a grand jury summons - as a way to either get him on record in a more meaningful setting than the congressional things, or as a bargaining chip to get him to speak more candidly in a face to face setting.
    1) Refusing to answer a reporter's question (or anyone's question) doesn't really do much of anything, since you're not saying anything, right?

    2) I guess Bannon's team agreed to meet with Mueller, with Bannon bringing his own attorney (you can't have an attorney with you when being questioned by a grand jury), and Bannon's attorney is also the White House's attorney, so ....
    Note that the White House has an entirely separate attorney than the President, it's like the "White House" is its own entity, it's always this way. The WH attorney represents the office of the WH. Anyway, according to the talking
    heads I saw on MSNBC, this is being interpreted as a kind of "peace offering" from Bannon to the White House / President (after the stuff Bannon said in the "Fire and Fury" book), since now the WH attorney can be there to listen to
    the questions being asked of Bannon. Which wouldn't happen in a grand jury setting. So, this is just an initial questioning and kind of a recognizance mission.

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