Likes: 
Faceplams: http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politi...ays/ar-AAuMO4O For reference.
Also, try not to assume I'm saying Trump is a super genius or I'm defending him, because I'm not.
Too Privileged to Get It
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politi...ays/ar-AAuMO4O For reference.
Also, try not to assume I'm saying Trump is a super genius or I'm defending him, because I'm not.
24.24.1.1397
Yeah, what a test.
"Drumpf answered all 30 questions correctly, Jackson said."
"The test includes asking a patient to name several animals, draw a clock with the hands at a certain time, copy a cube and recall a short list of words"
Well then, surely Trump has no mental issues. I feel much better about his mental stability.
Active Member
The whole medical community hasn't conducted any tests on the man. The doctor who performed this physical has been the White House Physician since 2013, when Barack Obama was president.Originally Posted by Jinsai
So are you insinuating that he was also eating Obama's ass and is a bipartisan soothsayer who just says "everything's peachy" about anyone who gives him a job? Because frankly, I think that is unbelievably insulting to Admiral / Dr. Jackson.
Look, you have a choice here. You can accept the fact that a HIGHLY skilled medical doctor announced that the President is not a cheeseburger away from a heart attack like many people desperately want him to be, or you can become one of those pathetic people who suddenly "disagree with" science when it doesn't support their pre-conceived notions about something anymore.
Active Member
Look, I don't like Trump. But I have *some* understanding of medical tests, and the things that mentally healthy people might see as silly are things that people with cognitive disorders would potentially struggle with. There's a huge difference between having a mental disorder and being a racist fucking asshole with an ego the size Jupiter. The former isn't required in order to be the latter.
Alt-Left Leaning Cunt
tempus est umbra in mente
I obviously do not like Trump, but give me some credit on my ability to say "what the fuck." This doctor said that he didn't see a reason to question his sanity.
Fuck this guy. He's a professional ass kisser. Even if the president is sane, like Obama, or fucking crazier than fuck, like Trump. NO medical professional would say "hey, this guy is acting super normal!"
Last edited by Jinsai; 01-17-2018 at 02:06 AM.
Active Member
Yeah, have to agree with this post. It still doesn't mean that Trump isn't unfit and could possibly have a mental/personality disorder.
Last edited by GulDukat; 01-17-2018 at 02:54 AM.
Bite me
This doctor performed a standard physical examination and conducted a standard test of the President’s cognitive abilities. I watched my elderly mother undergo the same tests. The standard cognitive test is to determine signs of dementia or Alzheimer’s.
It’s not the WH physician’s job to diagnose any personality disorders. There is not enough evidence to question the President’s “sanity.” There is NO respectable psychiatric physician out there who is willing or able to determine a personality disorder without a proper examination. It’s unethical. It also violates the Goldwater Rule.
See also this: https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...ic-personality
We really have to stop focusing on how to get rid of this guy and focus, instead, on the future of American politics.
Personally, I see the demise of the two party system in the next 20 years, maybe sooner.
Trump is a RINO, Democrats are like Eisenhower Republicans, the GOP is a mess and being overrun by Tea Party nut jobs and religious zealots, and Millennials hate all of them and trust none of them.
Last edited by allegro; 01-17-2018 at 03:26 AM.
Active Member
Of course it's not his job to diagnose any sort of personality disorder. I didn't say it was.
But plenty of headshrinkers question Trump's mental health. And maybe it is time to rethink the Goldwater rule.
https://www.politico.com/magazine/st...l-state-216266
Last edited by GulDukat; 01-17-2018 at 03:53 AM.
Active Member
I'm going to repeat this just to be clear, and then I'm going to drop it. If this doesn't make more sense, then I just don't know how to get my point across.
There is a very large, and very significant difference, between having a horrible personality / generally being a terrible person, and having a physical neurological disorder that has damaged your brain. The bipartisan White House doctor conducted a standard medical test and concluded that the president does not suffer from the latter. HIS opinion is the one that matters, not the one of armchair practitioners who are making speculations from the sidelines.
You're acting the way Trump acts when he denies climate change. You've been given sound scientific evidence, it doesn't fit your desires, and so you're making baseless claims against it. You're making the "we can disagree with the facts" argument that everyone blasted the administration for last year. It's not a good approach and all it does is damage your own credibility. Please, learn to accept that not everything is going to fit the narrative you want it to, and as @allegro mentioned, focus your attention on real actions you can do to make things better in the future instead of pounding your fists on the table and demanding that someone find an excuse to drag the man from office.
Active Member
Anyone catch THIS interview?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...=.a7637b5bd4e8
tempus est umbra in mente
I understand what you and Allegro are saying, but did you actually LISTEN to this guy? Did you listen to him with ears? You can't tell me this doesn't sound like an apologist.
He acts like there was no reason to even evaluate his sanity! Yes, I know you cannot diagnose someone remotely, but just because Trump can count backwards from 7 on a good day means absolutely jack shit. Any real psychiatrist would tell you that this is an evaluation that goes on for an extended period of time, not insinuate that there was no reason to even do the evaluation.
Covfefe
Last edited by Jinsai; 01-17-2018 at 10:20 AM.
FATUM NOS IUNGET
FWIW Lifehacker posted an article today with a link to the actual MoCA test, and fuck me in no way should that be the only cognitive test. One of the questions on it is if the test subject can recall FIVE basic words in order. Fuckssakes...
tempus est umbra in mente
Pretty much... just because Trump passed a test where he can identify a drawing of a rhino does not mean he isn't exhibiting seriously demented shit.
Bite me
Guys guys guys, listen, that test is used by NEUROLOGISTS!! I’ve SEEN neurologists conduct the test. A MAYO CLINIC NEUROLOGIST. It’s proven to be more than 94% effective in detecting dementia. It’s not about the stupid pictures or how many animals you can see at a zoo; it’s actually about how dementia robs you of your ability to recall even a few pics of farm animals or the time on a clock after you’ve been distracted or time has passed.
Read the article I linked, above, interviewing the guy who wrote the book on personality disorders. The WH doctor is actually attempting to calm a concerned public that is fearing that (based on the contents of the “Fire and Fury” book) Trump has short term memory loss and therefore dementia and is in his position of power.
Look, I can’t stand Trump; but these assertions that a rich egotistical guy should be required to undergo psychiatric testing (by a doctor totally unqualified to conduct said tests) is just whining. When and if Trump does something that ACTUALLY exhibits a Constitutional crisis, then maybe a hearing will be conducted.
Last edited by allegro; 01-17-2018 at 12:18 PM.
Administrator
I feel the same. Putting so much emphasis on his physical condition is gross imo. There are plenty of reasons to impeach him. We don’t need to weigh him publicly like a pig at the fair.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Bite me
Also, note that THERE IS NO OTHER WAY to detect dementia other than (a) this standard neurological test or (b) an autopsy. Even Alzheimer’s can’t be 100% positively diagnosed without an autopsy. An MRI can sometimes detect certain changes, but even THAT is not a reliable test to detect dementia or Alzheimer’s.
My Mom’s issues were ultimately deemed to be a side effect of her STATIN meds (Zocor).
Dementia (any form) not only affects memory, it affects language skills, coordination, balance, etc. The standard test assesses all of these things. Dementia, even in the early stages, stands out to qualified physicians in ways we can’t see.
The only thing I’m wondering about, given that Trump is overweight and gets very little sleep, is whether or not he has sleep apnea, which can cause mental fogginess (at any age). This would require a sleep study, which may have actually been ordered but is not necessarily public data. Trump may already be using a CPAP and we don’t know it. The WH doctor said the President occasionally uses Ambien (which isn’t the best choice for an elderly patient).
Last edited by allegro; 01-17-2018 at 12:42 PM.
Stubby Member
What do you have in mind ?
Bite me
Ha ha.
See how football and hockey players are donating their brains after death? Plenty of Alzheimer’s patients’ families do this, too. The stats are interesting, showing more Alzheimer’s MISdiagnosis than suspected. Dementia is a symptom with many origins.
The WH doctor DID discuss proper diet with the President. Alzheimer’s is now known as “Type 3 Diabetes” due to relatively recent studies linking it to sugar. Alzheimer’s (except for the genetic early-onset variety) is preventable.
See how all this LEADS TO DRIFT??
Last edited by allegro; 01-17-2018 at 12:34 PM.
tempus est umbra in mente
Allegro, the problem is that it's the WRONG test, and if we're testing for dementia, it's not exhaustive enough.
The larger problem here is that regardless of whether or not he passed it with flying colors, it's now being used as proof positive that he's not crazy, which is bullshit. He wants the test to make the claim go away, and it doesn't. I'd rather he never have taken it if this was supposed to "settle the matter."
I think we do... he won't show regular protocol. No tax returns, fine, we weigh you like a pig... but we don't let you weigh yourself and then declare the matter settled.
Last edited by Jinsai; 01-17-2018 at 12:43 PM.
Bite me
BULLSHIT. That IS the fucking dementia test! That's IT. There IS NO FUCKING OTHER TEST. Trust me, I've been down this road a bunch of times with elderly family members, many times (and you got it coming, too, buddy). Neurologists from fucking MAYO CLINIC know what they're doing, and they're doing THIS TEST. We ain't living in Star Trek. We do not have any special Dementia Decoder Scanner. We have barely scratched the surface of neurology, relatively speaking.
SEE THIS. The physician who conducted this (voluntary) test is not qualified to determine "mental" fitness from a "psychological" point-of-view; he is only qualified to test Trump from a neurological point-of-view, looking for standard markers of dementia or cognitive abilities.
And, no, NOBODY is comparing Trump's standard dementia test to "crazy."
That's just TOTALLY disrespectful to people with actual mental illness.
READ THIS ARTICLE:
The psychiatrist who wrote the guide to personality disorders says diagnosing Trump is “bullshit”
Allen Frances is a psychiatrist who wrote the rules for diagnosing personality disorders in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. The DSM is the No. 1 tool mental health professionals have for making diagnoses.
Frances, a professor emeritus at Duke, doesn’t mince words about what he thinks of mental health professionals who are now using the DSM to diagnose President Donald Trump with a mental disorder. “What’s going on is bullshit,” he says.
[...]
“Everyone has a personality,” Frances says. “It’s not wrong to have a personality; it’s not mentally ill to have a personality. It’s only a disorder when it causes extreme distress, suffering, and impairment.”
Trump’s willingness to lie and endless self-promotion are traits that have, so far, worked out largely to his advantage. He’s president of the United States, after all.
But people who have a true narcissistic personality disorder, Frances explains, experience a crash of some sort, even if they can’t see it for themselves. They’ll lose their jobs, their spouses and children will abandon them, and their “bubble of grandiosity [will] burst,” he says. “They feel absolutely miserable, can’t function, can’t face the world.” (Research has found that a narcissistic personality can, to an extent, help you move up in the world.)
[...]
I called Joshua Miller, a psychologist who directs the University of Georgia’s clinical training program and studies the differences between personality and disorder, for a third perspective. He says that in many cases, it can be hard to tell where personality ends and illness begins.
That’s because these days, most mental illnesses exist on a spectrum. “Even disorders we thought ... you either had it or not — categorical things like schizophrenia — we now know are much more like spectrum disorders,” he says. “You can have some schizophrenic traits, but not all.” And that’s especially true of personality disorders, which he says are all just extreme manifestations of otherwise “normal” personality traits.
The question What is a mental disorder? he says is “probably one of the most intractable debates that exists. And it’s playing out with Trump now.”
The DSM is meant to standardize treatment and care of mental illness. It’s meant to decrease the subjectivity of making a diagnosis. And it’s the best tool the profession has.
But the human brain avoids standardization. The truth is, Miller says, “there is no magical point where you go from having sub-threshold narcissism to a disorder. We can make a cutoff, but we should acknowledge it is arbitrary. ... There is no sharp divide between ... a shitty personality and a disorder.” All of our personalities cause us and others harm every now and then. It takes an extremely clear and consistent pattern of harm to reach the level of a diagnosis.
Many people make bad or immoral decisions and do not suffer from any malady. As psychologist Cedar Riener wrote for Vox, calling Trump’s behavior an illness may be an easy escape from answering hard questions about politics today:
Efforts to label Trump with a mental disorder let us off the hook in thinking about the kinds of personalities our culture rewards — and about the state of our politics. The very traits that many claim are toxic and dysfunctional have not only failed to harm him but have contributed to his success.
STOP trying to remove this fucker. DO YOU NOT REALIZE that a President Pence would be like a fucking RELIGIOUS HORROR SHOW?
Last edited by allegro; 01-17-2018 at 01:07 PM.
tempus est umbra in mente
I've already thrown my two cents into why I think this is bull, and that the threat of Pence is a limp contingency plan. He would be a lame duck. By the time he'd be in office, he'd be powerless.
Also, the only reason he hasn't had a crash of some sort is because he has a golden parachute. To declare that someone with a narcissistic personality disorder would have crashed by this point when they're also a trust fund baby with enough inherited cash to withstand multiple bankruptcies... COME ON.
He WILL crash, and at that point, will the doctor say it was fair to speculate that he might have narcissistic personality disorder?
Bite me
Look, this is the UNITED STATES, we don't do things without, literally, an "Act of Congress." This stuff all requires OFFICIAL PROCEDURES determined by our CONSTITUTION.
See this.
Also, I live right next to Indiana (Pence's former state of Governance) and I know LOTS of Indiana residents who would rather have Trump than Pence and they could spend hours explaining why.
See this article.
“If Pence were to become President for any reason, the government would be run by the Koch brothers—period. He’s been their tool for years,” he said. Bannon is equally alarmed at the prospect of a Pence Presidency. He told me, “I’m concerned he’d be a President that the Kochs would own.”NO President has EVER been removed from office in our 242-year history. Bill Clinton committed PERJURY and STILL wasn't removed from office. Reagan had ALZHEIMER'S for TWO FUCKING YEARS and his wife Nancy was pretty much running the country, but Reagan wasn't removed from office. Nixon wasn't removed from office, he resigned before a Senate hearing occurred.In the spring of 2015, Pence signed a bill called the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, which he presented as innocuous. “He said it protected religious freedom, and who’s against that?” Oesterle recalled. But then a photograph of the closed signing session surfaced. It showed Pence surrounded by monks and nuns, along with three of the most virulently anti-gay activists in the state. The image went viral. Indiana residents began examining the law more closely, and discovered that it essentially legalized discrimination against homosexuals by businesses in the state.
“The No. 1 challenge we face in Indiana is the ability to attract and retain talented people,” Oesterle said. “If the state is seen as bigoted to certain members of the community, it makes the job monumentally harder.” The Religious Freedom Restoration Act, Oesterle said, “was not an issue of Pence’s creation”—it had “gurgled out” of the far-right fringe of the Indiana legislature. But, he added, “there was a lack of leadership.” In his view, Pence should have prevented it and other extreme bills from moving forward. “You can see it happening in Washington now,” Oesterle said. “He’s not that effective a leader, or administrator. Extremists grabbed the initiative.”
The outcry over the Religious Freedom Restoration Act was enormous. Gay-rights groups condemned the bill and urged boycotts of the state. Pete Buttigieg, the young gay mayor of South Bend, who is a rising figure in the Democratic Party, told me that he tried to talk to Pence about the legislation, which he felt would cause major economic damage to Indiana. “But he got this look in his eye,” Buttigieg recalled. “He just inhabits a different reality. It’s very difficult for him to lay aside the social agenda. He’s a zealot.”
Here's what I think, though: If Trump is going to go down, it will be due to MONEY LAUNDERING. This per Steve Bannon, whoa this is getting interesting.
Last edited by allegro; 01-17-2018 at 01:34 PM.
tempus est umbra in mente
We enact repeated travel bans via executive order... Trump can say crazy shit on Twitter that can be treated like official statements... it can piss off foreign countries with nuclear bombs.... if the nuclear bombs are first strike thrown at America, they'll hit the part he cares about the least.
I know we have due process and shit, but the KLAN is back. The fucking KKK is a real thing again! It's all because of this guy and his dog whistle.
The president has power, outside of regular procedure. He can tweet. He has a supermajority.
Also, he's basically rolling out everything Pence wants anyway.
Last edited by Jinsai; 01-17-2018 at 01:34 PM.
Trollhunter
@Jinsai @allegro You know I got love for both of you and oddly enough, I am somewhere near the middle of where you both are standing.
I also believe that test to be simple (not to mention Trump could easily have been coached on it). It’s a lot easier to say he’s not physically healthy. You can point to his diet or just the obvious—he isn’t 6’3” nor does he look near 239lbs. He’s pulling from his friend Vince McMahon’s playbook on wrestlers exaggerating height and weight.
However, to allegro’s point about Pence—Hello, I’m Dave and I’ll be playing the role of “Indiana resident who doesn’t want Pence to be President EVER.” He left a lot of problems in my unfortunate state (financial and social). Where Trump attacks his would be allies in the Republican Party as well as intelligence communities, Pence would not, and would be more efficient at passing horrid policies.
Ive mentioned it before—my hope is that both of them (as well as everyone involved) goes down hard in the Mueller investigation. It’s clear Pence lied about what he knew and it makes me wonder how involved he was.
Last edited by Swykk; 01-17-2018 at 02:17 PM.
tempus est umbra in mente
I agree, and respect both of you.
Pence's a monster. The biggest fear would be if he were to be reelected.
To me anyway. I also think he'd never in a million years get reelected.
I fucking hate the idea of president Pence.
I also think the impeachment of Trump would be a step in the right direction.... and if it happened, while congress turns blue, he would be told to sit the fuck down
Bite me
Dude, the Klan has never gone away. It's always been here. The Obama administration caused the racists to uprise and be more vocal and obvious to mainstream media. https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/...s-in-33-states
Trump is a marketing person; he sees an untapped group and waves a giant neon sign attracting their attention; see also Richard M. Nixon's Southern Strategy which has been in effect ever since.
This past Monday having been the birthday of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., we can also reflect on this.
My husband thinks that we are ultimately headed toward a revolution, much like what the French and the Russians and the Cubans experienced, not only due to racial inequality but also due to vast economic disparity.
Last edited by allegro; 01-17-2018 at 01:54 PM.
tempus est umbra in mente
oh come on, we all know visibility for Klan shit is getting out of control... we know racists are there, but now they think they can grandstand
Bite me
The Klan barely scratches the surface, they aren't even the real threat, anymore. That Charlottesville incident was conducted by the new Alt-Right, and its leaders are college-educated preppies hell-bent on making this country all-white.
They are FAR more dangerous than the Klan.
And it was all stirred up even more by a Black Guy being in the White House. I am horrified by the TONS of comments I see online BLAMING Obama for "racism." Like, what the fuck.
However, they are still a minority. Trump isn't courting only them; he is MOSTLY courting Americans addicted to reality television who worship at the alter of the cult of personality.
I know a lot of Trump voters online, and when Trump says shit that pisses everybody ELSE off, they applaud, "yup, that's our boy! He's fucking with all of them, he says what he wants, he's not a puppet!" etc. They are CONVINCED that he is a brilliant rich businessman and pretty much a Rock Star to them. He's their Trent Reznor, cussing and throwing shit and nothing he does is wrong. And a lot of these people hadn't even bothered voting Republican (or voted at ALL), before. They see him as the anti-politician. He doesn't play by the Rules. And they like that. So we can't really fix that, other than present somebody who is electable by the OTHER people out there.
Ultimately, this blatant racism rising to the top will serve as a good thing, because it's out in the open, it's no longer hidden; we have ripped the bandage off of this wound and we are airing it out for all to see; these people coming out in visible numbers means they aren't hiding, and we cannot move forward and heal and fix these things until we SEE that racism still visibly exists in this country.
The SCOTUS reversed a huge important aspect of the Voters Rights Act because the majority of the justices (naively) believed that we are no longer racist and it isn't necessary. We are now showing that it never really went away, and will likely always be necessary.
Last edited by allegro; 01-17-2018 at 02:07 PM.
tempus est umbra in mente
that's true... Trump was the Rust Belt superstar. His prominence, as unlikely as it was, is largely why he won.
We should probably consider, on a side note, that saying "hey, fuck you Rust Belt!!!" is going to backlash.
Even if it's true.
Last edited by Jinsai; 01-17-2018 at 02:21 PM.
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