How to Make Music with Your Computer

[butter_hole]

Another fun tip? You know that awful (and super loud PING/POP) sound that happens when you adjust the volume with the F11 and F12 keys? If you're playing a live show and want to hit those (and not deafen your audience with a loud metronome hit), hold shift.

You can also remove that noise entirely in the settings. Also can change the increments in which it goes up and down with, I believe!

[DVYDRNS]

its silent by default in yosemite. which is nice.

[Jinsai]

its silent by default in yosemite. which is nice.

I know this is very late to respond, but I'm trying to figure out whether or not to update to Yosemite. Have you had any compatibility problems?

[DVYDRNS]

My mixer has had issues since the upgrade. but thats it. I'm running logic. I understand protools has massive issues with 10.10 @Jinsai

[elevenism]

So who else has a zoom r24 other than @Leviathant ?

I have drum polyphony issues...it thinks my beats are too complicated and can't play them right...it blows.
I have some solutions running through my head that i wanted to run by a fellow zoomer...and levi is a drummer, so he doesn't have this issue.

Also, who uses ACID (the daw, not the drug?)

i need a cheap software with a low learning curve that i can use to make nasty basslines, step recorded insanity, creepy noises, more drums, that sort of thing...i won't be recording onto it...i have my digital 24 track for that. the price is very attractive. I thought about buying a keyboard, but i don't intend to perform live with it, or like, play piano. I want it more for making loops. So i figured instead of dropping $500 on a synth, i'd try this out.

If not acid, does anyone have any other recommendations?
I'm looking for several voices and the capability of tweaking those voices...modulation changes, dubsteppy wubwubs, that sort of thing, the occasional synth line, pedal tones, and the ability to easily sequence this shit into loops that i can then record onto my 24 track.
I like to basically make electronic music and then play guitar and sing over it.

[Leviathant]

@elevenism Check out Reaper. Before there was Acid, there was Vegas, which is currently a video editor, but began its life as a multitrack audio editor. When Vegas went video, they re-purposed some of it into Acid, adding things like MIDI. But Acid didn't have all the bells and whistles that Vegas had. Enter Justin Frankel, who wrote Winamp, and was a Vegas user. Not happy with what happened to Vegas, he started writing Reaper as kind of a Vegas clone, and continued pushing it further. It's now my DAW of choice.

Re-reading your post, neither ACID nor Reaper are what you're looking for, necessarily. Have you ever looked into Reason? (BTW, "low learning curve" and "modulation changes, tweaking, wubs" do not really go hand in hand) Maybe dip your does into that world with Audiotool, which is an online program that's kinda like Reason. Orrr Caustic. Decisions, decisions!

[elevenism]

@elevenism Check out Reaper. Before there was Acid, there was Vegas, which is currently a video editor, but began its life as a multitrack audio editor. When Vegas went video, they re-purposed some of it into Acid, adding things like MIDI. But Acid didn't have all the bells and whistles that Vegas had. Enter Justin Frankel, who wrote Winamp, and was a Vegas user. Not happy with what happened to Vegas, he started writing Reaper as kind of a Vegas clone, and continued pushing it further. It's now my DAW of choice.

Re-reading your post, neither ACID nor Reaper are what you're looking for, necessarily. Have you ever looked into Reason? (BTW, "low learning curve" and "modulation changes, tweaking, wubs" do not really go hand in hand) Maybe dip your does into that world with Audiotool, which is an online program that's kinda like Reason. Orrr Caustic. Decisions, decisions!

well i don't need THAT low of a learning curve necessarily. i used things like goldwave and multiquence and such in the nineties, and am pretty well versed in step sequencing.

basically i just want something with a lot of voices and effects and filters with step recording and hopefully a lot of drum kits.

but i'm not going to record on the software...just create, say, a bass line, record out to the r24, trim, and loop.

so what do you suggest?

edit: "You will never run out of creative options with Reason’s vast collection of instruments and effects, all ready to be used in your music. They all look, feel and sound like their real-world counter-parts and are easy to understand with their simple layout, free of sub menus and cryptic interfaces."


that sounds like the hot ticket


edit again: ANNNNNNND fucksake, i can't afford $399 right now.
that's why i'm not getting a minovation and a dr rhythm.

[elevenism]

Sorry for the double post.

I used to use yamaha qy series sequencers.

I guess i'm kind of looking for a replacement for this.

I want to say, be able to input a bass line, note for note, you know? I would like to have several voices to choose from.

What software does this the best? maybe even fruity loops?

[Jinsai]

if you wanted a cheaper option that is incredibly powerful, maybe check out Renoise? You can download it and see if it works for you. Free to use, fifty bucks to own (and allows audio export and rewire at that point). It's got a tough learning curve, but there's a reason a lot of people use it. If you have the patience to sit through the tutorial videos, you will be rocking in no time. I can hook you up with some drum sample banks if you need.

[Jinsai]

Ok.... I really want this, right now. I just might need to do that.

[catiua]

Does anyone have experience with Pro Tools? I'm a Logic user and dabble into Live occasionally.. but have always been curious about Pro Tools. I know the idea of getting another DAW is redundant but I see that a lot of clients are used to Pro Tools.

[Jinsai]

Does anyone have experience with Pro Tools? I'm a Logic user and dabble into Live occasionally.. but have always been curious about Pro Tools. I know the idea of getting another DAW is redundant but I see that a lot of clients are used to Pro Tools.

If you want to record a traditional musical group in the traditional way, it is pretty much essential that you learn Pro Tools. It will be the main operating DAW in any pro studio you enter, and that's probably going to always be the case.

What does it offer that Logic does not? That's a tricky question, and it depends on the person and what they want to do with music, but the best answer I can come up with is: significantly less than Ableton Live. Or Reason. Or Renoise. Or even FL Studio. Those apps are all different enough from traditional DAWs and they excel at specific things.

Are you recording large sessions with lots of microphones?
Are you using a studio with a mixing desk and a lot of outboard gear?
Are you doing sound for film in any capacity? Do you want to?
Are you syncing analog tape to your session?

if you answered yes to any of those questions, you should probably learn Pro Tools. Just because. Just do it. Buy the software and learn it. You have to.

If not, stick with your primary DAW if it's working for you (Logic is great) and if you want to pick up another program, maybe go with something that offers incentives which would help you make the music you want to make.

If you want to work professionally in the music production world, you will have to learn Pro Tools though. The sooner the better. Personally, I love/hate Pro Tools, but you have to know how to use it, and be fairly proficient at it. There's some things to it that I like very much though... the grouping and organizational aspects are amazing and hard to do without. The full version of Pitch n Time is amazing and pretty much unbeatable. Audio editing workflow is fantastically optimized in Pro Tools, especially by comparison to Logic. Logic is simpler, more straight forward. PT is more clinical, confusing at first, but it's solid, reliable, and... and it's hard to explain the subtle ways that it is perhaps superior. If you learn the obnoxious shortcuts, you will start moving faster than Logic. Audio Suite's ability to instantly print effects onto a selected region is great. The tab-to-transient feature has Logic beat. It has a similar feature to Ableton, where you can just highlight a section of audio and gain/attenuate that portion non-destructively. This is the killer for me with Logic... having to worry about how so many of the basic features of audio editing are destructive. Similarly, the options with consolidating regions in PT is really awesome. Some of the other deeper features are great (the "fly-to" function is pretty amazing), and if you are fast on a number pad you can really start racing in PT, which is what people love about it. If you're doing conventional things with audio, Pro Tools can do it well, and if you're good at PT, it will be done faster and cleaner than it can be done anywhere else.

[catiua]

If you want to work professionally in the music production world, you will have to learn Pro Tools though. The sooner the better. Personally, I love/hate Pro Tools, but you have to know how to use it, and be fairly proficient at it. There's some things to it that I like very much though... the grouping and organizational aspects are amazing and hard to do without. The full version of Pitch n Time is amazing and pretty much unbeatable. Audio editing workflow is fantastically optimized in Pro Tools, especially by comparison to Logic. Logic is simpler, more straight forward. PT is more clinical, confusing at first, but it's solid, reliable, and... and it's hard to explain the subtle ways that it is perhaps superior. If you learn the obnoxious shortcuts, you will start moving faster than Logic. Audio Suite's ability to instantly print effects onto a selected region is great. The tab-to-transient feature has Logic beat. It has a similar feature to Ableton, where you can just highlight a section of audio and gain/attenuate that portion non-destructively. This is the killer for me with Logic... having to worry about how so many of the basic features of audio editing are destructive. Similarly, the options with consolidating regions in PT is really awesome. Some of the other deeper features are great (the "fly-to" function is pretty amazing), and if you are fast on a number pad you can really start racing in PT, which is what people love about it. If you're doing conventional things with audio, Pro Tools can do it well, and if you're good at PT, it will be done faster and cleaner than it can be done anywhere else.

Thanks, Jinsai! That was a very informative and detailed post. I do plan on recording local artists - a lot of people I met with in the past were only used to Pro Tools. My lack of experience with the DAW hindered the writing and production stages significantly. Also, personally I use a lot of outboard gear to record. I don't plan on doing any sound design for film or using analog tape, at least not anytime soon. To be honest, I avoided Pro Tools ever since I started making music and producing because it seemed overly complex. When I first got into music, I was only doing it to make music for myself, so I was drawn to Logic and Live. I love using Logic for producing and writing demos - Live for remixing and brainstorming ideas on the fly.

Your knowledge of all these DAWs is impressive. Thank you for your help! I plan on buying Pro Tools soon and learning. It's something I must adapt to since it's the most universal DAW.

[Substance242]

I'll put this here, interesting "Group Humanizer" instrument for Max for Live:
https://www.ableton.com/en/blog/jame...ableton%2Fblog

There's a scientific research that musicians playing together are affecting each other so each small timing "error" is influencing everything that follows, and we like listening to that more than e.g. to each track recorded to click track separately without interaction, or even worse, everything perfectly quantised. "(...) stark difference in (intangible) feeling between any bands' jammed-out breakthrough LP and their painstakingly-constructed-in-an-expensive-studio final LP"

[Jinsai]

apparently NI is doing a deal right now for a free cross grade to Komplete 10 if you buy a Komplete Kontrol S series controller... which is a pretty big deal, and I might just have to go for it.

[elevenism]

@Jinsai , can you tell me how the 0-127 CC74 Brightness values relate to cutoff, in terms of numbers?

i'm still losing my mind trying to enter shit into this sequencer without any damn knobs.

did you ever get that controller btw?

[ZRFTS]

Since I'm here, has anybody used Sytrus; I've recently mastered it and I find it to be the best synthisizer ever; I can create any sound with it, including drum snares, drum kicks and hi-hats. In fact I made an entire album with it, didn't go over well with certain people but it is an interesting release.

[Jinsai]

Since I'm here, has anybody used Sytrus; I've recently mastered it and I find it to be the best synthisizer ever; I can create any sound with it, including drum snares, drum kicks and hi-hats.

It looks nifty, but seeing as how it's PC-only, I probably won't be giving it a test drive any time soon... it looks similar in some ways to the FM8, which is a really great (but not very user friendly imo) plugin.

[elevenism]

i like sytrus.

i wish i had focused more on electronics instead of my guitar.

because i'm a DAMN good guitar player, but don't know midi.

i still make some dope ass patterns and such though.

[Jinsai]

i like sytrus.

i wish i had focused more on electronics instead of my guitar.

because i'm a DAMN good guitar player, but don't know midi.

i still make some dope ass patterns and such though.

I have a guitar to midi converter box and MIDI pickup on my guitar... just an idea. There's also that Jam Origin software. Not sure what happened with that...

[elevenism]

I have a guitar to midi converter box and MIDI pickup on my guitar... just an idea. There's also that Jam Origin software. Not sure what happened with that...

that is a damn good idea...i forgot about those things.
i used to love to fuck with them in the guitar store back when it was INSANELY revolutionary in the 90s

[Jinsai]

that is a damn good idea...i forgot about those things.
i used to love to fuck with them in the guitar store back when it was INSANELY revolutionary in the 90s

Yeah, now software is catching up, and hardware is maybe not even necessary soon at all. After all, if you play monophonic guitar lines into ableton, you can then reliably convert that to MIDI performance data.

[Archive_Reports]

Has anyone here snagged ProTools First? I downloaded/installed it but can't seem to get it up and running.

[Jinsai]

Has anyone here snagged ProTools First? I downloaded/installed it but can't seem to get it up and running.

I haven't heard of PT First before... I guess it's like a lite edition? I would assume (since this is Avid) that they still require the use of an iLok... but even then if the issue was iLok - related, you would get an error message about that? What happens when you try to boot it up, do you get an error message at least? Are you running on OSX or Windows?

[Archive_Reports]

I haven't heard of PT First before... I guess it's like a lite edition? I would assume (since this is Avid) that they still require the use of an iLok... but even then if the issue was iLok - related, you would get an error message about that? What happens when you try to boot it up, do you get an error message at least? Are you running on OSX or Windows?

All good questions. I'm running Windows and not getting any error messages. I thought it might be a PC performance issue but nothing else seems to be affected by it.

I open it up and go to start a new project and then nothing happens...it just sits there any all of the menu buttons are grayed out.

There are limitations but I have no idea what they are as I'm new to Pro Tools and Avid in general.

[Jinsai]

Pro Tools can be finicky to set up. A lot of other programs have a very friendly "here, let me do that for you" thing going on. Pro Tools just doesn't... so it can be hard to diagnose a problem. One of the first things to check is that your Audio I/O settings are proper and configured right... there's a core audio/midi application in Mac OSX that can help juggle Pro Tools into behaving better after you set up the PT aggregate audio. Are you using an audio interface?

Are you using an iLok? Does PT First require iLok?

I'm a little out of practice with Pro Tools (sad/embarrassing and I need to go back to it). But going in and setting up a new project I believe the shortcut was shift cmmd N. Then you tell it what kind of tracks you need and how many, and then it should open up the project.

[Jinsai]

any other Renoise users on here? I've finally set up a qwerty keyboard with sticker overlays for renoise shortcuts, and I've been trying to see how fast I can efficiently move around in here. The program is intimidatingly deep at first, but as I've gotten more familiar with it, I'm starting to see how it would be kind of hard to do without this.

[Leviathant]

any other Renoise users on here? I've finally set up a qwerty keyboard with sticker overlays for renoise shortcuts, and I've been trying to see how fast I can efficiently move around in here. The program is intimidatingly deep at first, but as I've gotten more familiar with it, I'm starting to see how it would be kind of hard to do without this.

I opened up Impulse Tracker for the first time in a very, very, very long time last week, and at first, I had no idea what I was doing. But slowly, the keyboard shortcuts came back to me.

Trackers provide ultimate control. You are writing assembly language for sound generation. The learning curve for the interface is definitely going to be even more steep if you don't have command line experience. However, once you've got the details worked out, there's really nothing else like it. I stopped working on trackers because Impulse Tracker's MIDI wasn't great, and the MIDI devices I used at the time weren't great either, and then softsynths came around. It wasn't until Reason came out that I felt like I had nearly the level of control over music creation that I had with trackers... still not as much by a good measure, but still, lots of control.

Renoise has been beckoning me from several different angles lately, and while I want to get away from the computer, I also feel like any hardware sampler I try to fit into my setup will just feel like a toy next to a proper tracker. And I haven't even used a tracker that supports VST, an API, MIDI, etc.

[Jinsai]

Renoise has been beckoning me from several different angles lately, and while I want to get away from the computer, I also feel like any hardware sampler I try to fit into my setup will just feel like a toy next to a proper tracker. And I haven't even used a tracker that supports VST, an API, MIDI, etc.

I would highly recommend it.

I just got a qwerty keyboard built for video game bashage as my Renoise controller, got the shortcut stickers for 6 bucks on Amazon, and I've been losing my mind ever since. Using it rewired into Ableton has completely changed the way I go about making music. It doesn't feel like there's a "computer" there, it feels like an instrument that you practice and perfect.

... with the added bonus of "if you're a really fast typist, then you've already been practicing this 'instrument' for thousands of hours"

Also, it's free up until the point where you want to bounce out your audio or rewire it... and even then the purchase price is 50 dollars. Everything about renoise has the right approach and is punk as fuck.

Also, it's the only application I've ever seen that allows you to use VST/AU plugins while it's in rewire mode. I don't understand why, but it's really interesting that so many "mainstream" applications cannot.

ALSO (in CAPS!) you can import your impulse tracker .it files into renoise! Just found this out, and have been digging through old tracker libraries.

[Archive_Reports]

Is there a product that can accurately mimic the microKorg sounds? I sold mine a while back but am in need of some of the patches and all I have is my trusty controller and Ableton.