How to Make Music with Your Computer

[DVYDRNS]

Aalto is pretty sweet indeed. I'm using it on a track for War Widow right now.

[wizfan]

The full version has patches from mr. cortini with it, so you can half fulfill those dreams of being in nin and staring at the back of trent's head.

Or make a SONOIO tribute album. Thanks!

[wizfan]

jBridge frustrated the hell out of me. I used it to bridge 32-bit VSTs into the 64-bit version of Ableton 9. They did work, but it was impossible for me to record automations, or even tweak them inside the project with envelopes. In the end, I had to install both 32-bit and 64-bit versions of Ableton.

[Jinsai]

I've been getting into embracing different workflows into various stages of assembling a song, but with the end limitation that each step can only take two hours before I move on... it's been a little difficult with the start because I'm most unfamiliar with the program, but I've been doing 1. Renoise -> 2. Live w/ Renoise rewired -> 3. Live w/ Reason rewired -> 4. Logic w/ Live rewired -> 5. hardware + plugin synths into Logic -> 6. Final mix and production in Logic

The hardest part I think will be to not cheat on the last step and spend a week meticulously messing with things. Anyone else in here have experience w/ tracker programs like Renoise? It's such a different way of thinking about things.

[Leviathant]

Renoise is a complete, expandable Digital Audio Workstation (DAW) with a refreshing twist. It lets you record, compose, edit, process and render production-quality audio using a tracker-based approach.

Oh man. I've pretty much lost all of my tracker chops, but I'm still happy to see something like this come about. I've never felt more in control of the music I was writing as I did using Impulse Tracker. Reason came close, but still wasn't quite there. (Everything else about Reason made up for that, mind you).

[Jinsai]

Oh man. I've pretty much lost all of my tracker chops, but I'm still happy to see something like this come about. I've never felt more in control of the music I was writing as I did using Impulse Tracker. Reason came close, but still wasn't quite there. (Everything else about Reason made up for that, mind you).

After I got over the initial frustration and started to learn how the whole program/approach was laid out, I've been finding myself newly inspired. I've had friends recommending trackers to me for years, and it's always seemed counterintuitive to me, but finally I think I'm a convert.

I'd recommend Renoise to anyone. The software is free, and if you want to be able to rewire it or render your audio it's 50 bucks to own it... and while there's shortcomings, you can really do some insane things here.

[Fixer808]

Reason came close, but still wasn't quite there. (Everything else about Reason made up for that, mind you).

I love Reason, but for some reason it refuses to work on my new computer. Windows 8 issue, maybe...?

[Pillfred]

Anyone recommend a good starting point for nearly a total noob? I'm looking to maybe broaden my hobby base and im thinking maybe this is something i could try and get back into. I have very limited experience in sound editing etc. I did some basic editing a few years back when i was doing a radio show and around that time played a bit with fruity loops, acid, and a couple others audition i think is what i settled on for basic mucking about. I tried to get into some of the other facets but as i didn't know wtf i was dong i quickly became lost in a sea of plugins and filters. I did however spend a fair bit of time working on a janky remix of With Teeth after the samples were released for Garageband however many years ago. Basically what i am looking for is perhaps some helpful resources and maybe a couple programs that a newby like myself may be able to use. I do still have some older version of stuff but they are all for windows and my pc is currently not up and running.

[Jinsai]

Anyone recommend a good starting point for nearly a total noob? I'm looking to maybe broaden my hobby base and im thinking maybe this is something i could try and get back into. I have very limited experience in sound editing etc. I did some basic editing a few years back when i was doing a radio show and around that time played a bit with fruity loops, acid, and a couple others audition i think is what i settled on for basic mucking about. I tried to get into some of the other facets but as i didn't know wtf i was dong i quickly became lost in a sea of plugins and filters. I did however spend a fair bit of time working on a janky remix of With Teeth after the samples were released for Garageband however many years ago. Basically what i am looking for is perhaps some helpful resources and maybe a couple programs that a newby like myself may be able to use. I do still have some older version of stuff but they are all for windows and my pc is currently not up and running.

I would actually recommend Ableton Live, but I guess it depends on what your budget is?

[Pillfred]

Don't really have a budget in mind, the cheaper the better i suppose but ill look into it for sure.

[jmtd]

DIVA - Dinosaur Impersonating Virtual Analog Synthesizer

http://www.u-he.com/cms/diva

I don't know if this is hokum but in another context I heard a little about circuit simulation in software and things like the virtual 6502 simulator - http://www.visual6502.org/JSSim/ - apparently the DIVA thing uses that sort-of approach and this is kind-of new for these things. I haven't fired it up yet - never tied a VST before - but going to give it a go. Anyone tried it?

[Jinsai]

DIVA

I've never used it before, but U-he makes quality stuff.

[Jinsai]

Ok, my mind is officially blown. I just finished up a master class on Ableton, and this changes everything. I'd never really understood the greatness of Max for Live until today, and now I'm going through how to write scripts to add further customizable control of the session view. How did I not know about this stuff until now?

[Jinsai]

btw, a recent shortcut to OSX that I just discovered, if you hold option and click on the "speaker icon" in the top right (what you usually go to to adjust volume), you can quick-swap select your audio interface.

This little feature has made my everyday life experience better.

Another fun tip? You know that awful (and super loud PING/POP) sound that happens when you adjust the volume with the F11 and F12 keys? If you're playing a live show and want to hit those (and not deafen your audience with a loud metronome hit), hold shift.

[jmtd]

btw, a recent shortcut to OSX that I just discovered, if you hold option and click on the "speaker icon" in the top right (what you usually go to to adjust volume), you can quick-swap select your audio interface.

This little feature has made my everyday life experience better.

It's a god send. (Oh man I remember what a nightmare this is on Linux)

Another fun tip? You know that awful (and super loud PING/POP) sound that happens when you adjust the volume with the F11 and F12 keys? If you're playing a live show and want to hit those (and not deafen your audience with a loud metronome hit), hold shift.

That's awesome, thanks. One day I might look into changing that noise.

[Jinsai]

so, are there any Pro Tools users in here? I've finally decided to sit down and learn this thing, and I don't see why it's so "objectively better" than Logic. Maybe the first thing I need to know is WHAT CAN IT DO that Logic cannot? Outside of the "fake consolidating" feature (which is awesome) and the ability to print effects to selected segments, and the "fly to" function, I'm not entirely sold.

I keep hearing that Pro Tools has a more "transparent" sound, and that Logic (and other programs) "color" the sound of your projects. Is there any... science behind this claim?

[Leviathant]

There have been threads on gearslutz about pan law and summing algorithms, but that's more about mixing levels and less about color. Given the effort behind writing plugins that DO color your sound, if there were any truth to "ProTools sounds better than more affordable DAWs" I would count on there being subtle built-in DSP in ProTools, with the newer DAWs being completely uncolored, because in the digital domain, being transparent is the easier programming choice. But there isn't any truth to ProTools sounding better than more affordable DAWs. If you want to tumble down that path, I'd probably start with doing mixdown in something like a Phoenix Nicerizer... another one of those things that is pricey enough and seemingly subtle enough that cursory searching didn't yield me any A/B audio tests, only people gushing about the magic it works when you use it to mix rather than mixing ITB. It's intriguing to me, but not $3000 intriguing, not unless my music makes me $6000. Which it doesn't.

When I tried ProTools, I was pretty astonished at how limited it was, not to mention how convoluted and user unfriendly it was. Of course, this is the software that just a few years ago, shot an ad with some of their users exclaiming about how great it was that they could finally put ProTools on their laptops and work on their mixes while not being in the studio. (This was 2-4 years ago). What you get with a ProTools pedigree is the possibility of working in a professional field. Big movie studios don't use Reaper. Big music studios don't use Logic. ProTools cornered that market and spoke to it on its terms before there was anything else like it. You used to need expensive dedicated hardware to do what modern, sub-$1000 DAWs do.

[bgalbraith]

Just wanted to say I *finally* used my Akai MPK-25 to create audio for a song we are working on. I still don't really know how to use Ableton Live Lite properly, and ended up running the initial bass riff through a loop pedal because I couldn't figure out how to create a MIDI loop on the fly, but it sounded nice. At this point I use Reaper for recording/downmixing, Guitar Pro for scoring and arranging, and now Abelton Live Lite for MIDI, all on an older MacBook Pro. All cheap and powerful enough for where we currently are as a band.

[Mantra]

You used to need expensive dedicated hardware to do what modern, sub-$1000 DAWs do.

Yeah, when I worked at a recording studio (roughly 9 years ago) this was the primary advantage that Pro-Tools had over other DAWs. Sure, when it came to small/home studios you could just pick whichever DAW felt more inspiring or easy to use, because at that level the interface and programming abilities of any particular DAW were just a matter of personal taste. But for a huge professional studio that needed to track 30-something audio inputs in a single take, it just seemed like Pro-Tools (and the hardware it worked with, of course) was the only product that could reliably deliver what was needed. Or at least that's the way it seemed to me at the time based on what others were saying (I wasn't exactly an expert on the subject, to be perfectly honest).

I drifted away from the music production world a long time ago, and I've only loosely followed the DAW scene, so I really don't know much these days. But my suspicion is that with each passing year the stories about Pro-Tools' superiority becomes less of a technical reality and more of a loyalty to brand name tradition.

[Jinsai]

I drifted away from the music production world a long time ago, and I've only loosely followed the DAW scene, so I really don't know much these days. But my suspicion is that with each passing year the stories about Pro-Tools' superiority becomes less of a technical reality and more of a loyalty to brand name tradition.

This seems to pretty much sum it up for me so far. I've found a handful of features that PT has which are pretty nice and are obvious time savers, and then I run into a workflow obstruction that seems completely ridiculous, and only probably still exists because "that's the way it's always been, and if they change it they'll piss everyone off." I've run into some strange assertions lately though... people who literally scoff at the idea of mixing down a track in Logic or Sonar or Cubase or DP or whatever. The attitude almost implies that it "cannot be done" properly in other programs, which is just all kinds of bullshit.

Now, practically every major DAW can handle tons of tracks simultaneously recording in a single take if you have the right hardware.

So far, what I like about Pro Tools:
- you can create "fake" consolidated group regions without actually having to create a new audio render... though with logic you have folders etc, and these can accomplish sort of the same thing.
- you can apply a greater range of printable effects and processing to individual portions of audio.
- the "fly to" function is nifty. It's not like the same thing can't be achieved otherwise, but it's cool.
- you can freely and independently organize your mixer and arrange windows... though many programs offer similar organization features. Logic is bizarrely behind the times on this one, I'll admit.
- ummmmmmmmmm... the batch fade function is cool? The non-destructive strip silence function is pretty nifty...? The ability to be able to run the full 800 dollar version of pitch and time is cool, if I had that money? Similarly, I'm sure it'd be fun and cute to own an HD rig, but...

On the flip side, it cannot:
- allow you to freely configure it any way you want that works best for you and set up your own hot keys
- its shortcut hotkeys are convoluted and strange, and seemingly for the most part based in absolutely no intuitive assignment
- it has no real modes for immediate quick load settings for simple routing outside of template arrangements. you have to set up everything manually
- no AU or VST support, where on the other hand, EVERY developer makes both the PT and AU/VST versions, but sometimes not the PT version
- work without a fucking dongle. This, in my opinion, makes it somewhat UNRELIABLE for sessions. My iLok has screwed up on me. What now?
- setting up your audio interface configurations is a total bastard, and Pro Tools fails to remember your preferences here for some unthinkable reason.
- the mouse scroll/swipe zoom feature is set up so stupidly. Hold option and slide one way, it zooms left and right. Slide the other way, it increases/decreases waveform view! Hold control up/down, it zooms vertically. There's no other way to do this. Hold control right/left, it does NOTHING. This is INSANE.
- You can't change your sample rate in a project and have Pro Tools up-convert current audio. lame, and completely unnecessary.
- It's lacking an endless slew of creative sequencing features that other programs offer.

I admit, I don't know it well enough to fully appreciate the ins and outs of what it excels at, but I also get the impression that a lot of people who tout its awesomeness don't know the full ins and outs of the competition. But, it's the industry standard, so....

[Mantra]

I also get the impression that a lot of people who tout its awesomeness don't know the full ins and outs of the competition. But, it's the industry standard, so....

Absolutely. I still hang out with the guys I used to work with and sometimes I'll ask them about other DAWs, and they usually know suprisingly little. They might dabble in them a little bit or read some stuff on gearlsutz, but that's mostly it. I've also found that a lot of engineers can be insufferable nerd-bros, so even if they don't know shit about the program they'll front like they know it inside and out, because they can't stand to admit that they're out of the loop. They gotta be an expert on everything, which is maybe why you hear all those weird claims about other DAWs.

That said, it's not really their fault that they're mostly unfamiliar with all the different DAWs out there. You'd think they would know more given that they're professionals, but their work hours are fucking brutal, at least 90 hours a week, sometimes well over 120. They barely have time to take a piss, let alone experiment with some cool new DAW. It's weird, but I'll bet that the casual hobbyist types are much better informed about the strengths and weaknesses of all the various DAWs, because they actually have free time to explore them. Pro engineers are sort of stuck on this Pro-Tools track, just because it would be kind of a nightmare to switch over, both in terms of the time it would take to learn a new DAW and because it would totally fuck up the standardization that helps make things run smoother.

[Jinsai]

is anyone in here interested in collaborating online on a project? We should make a gobbler ETS account (or a dropbox) and everyone who wants to should chip in.

[DVYDRNS]

Native Instruments Komplete Ultimate just got delivered. I had to pull the trigger on the cross grade purchase. Because I already have a Maschine, it only cost me 375.

Installing now. And very excited about it.

[Jinsai]

Native Instruments Komplete Ultimate just got delivered. I had to pull the trigger on the cross grade purchase. Because I already have a Maschine, it only cost me 375.

Installing now. And very excited about it.

I've been on the fence about upgrading to KUltimate. Right now there's a sale going on, and I can get the upgrade for 200 bucks (plus a student discount). Skanner XT, Razor, The Mouth, the Lexicon verb emulations, Driver, and all the orchestral sample banks make it tempting...

[DVYDRNS]

Yea I couldn't say no anymore Its awesome.

[screwdriver]

I've been on the fence about upgrading to KUltimate. Right now there's a sale going on, and I can get the upgrade for 200 bucks (plus a student discount). Skanner XT, Razor, The Mouth, the Lexicon verb emulations, Driver, and all the orchestral sample banks make it tempting...

I just did it
its pretty rad

[screwdriver]

is anyone in here interested in collaborating online on a project? We should make a gobbler ETS account (or a dropbox) and everyone who wants to should chip in.

totally in

[Conan The Barbarian]

So my drums seem to be buried in my mix. Any advice?

[DVYDRNS]

So my drums seem to be buried in my mix. Any advice?

Turn everything down. Then turn the drums up. Don't just crank the drums. And then add compression to the drums.

[Leviathant]

I typically mix my drums down to a stereo bus, compress to taste, try out some convolution reverbs because the rooms I'm stuck recording in have no drum sound (and ), then bring the volume of the other channels up until I find a good balance. For recording rock, I do tend to make the kick and snare notably louder, which in turn gets tamed when the master channel is limited. If your kick drum is fighting against your bass (synth or otherwise) you can do some creative EQing, boosting a band in the kick and cutting that band in the bass, or side-chaining a compressor on the bassline to the kick drum.

There's also this Google search. A whole lot of crap, but a few good tips are there to be unearthed.