Likes: 
Faceplams: Up next: Enzo Amore http://www.prowrestlingsheet.com/enz.../#.WmZmaWJMGEc
Check the Twitter of the accuser, @missgucciwitch, if you want her entire story.
Trollhunter
Up next: Enzo Amore http://www.prowrestlingsheet.com/enz.../#.WmZmaWJMGEc
Check the Twitter of the accuser, @missgucciwitch, if you want her entire story.
Member
Well, I'm actually not surprised about this. The guy always seemed like an asshole as he did get kicked out of the bus by Roman Reigns of all people for talking about all the money he's making and shit.Originally Posted by Swykk
Active Member
She says she was in a mental hospital, yet she somehow got to keep her phone and keep tweeting?
She is the same woman who faked a pregnancy to get back together with her ex, though she (who - once again - faked a pregnancy) says she wouldn't fake a rape story. (The video: - she claims her boyfriend/ex raped her as well, jump to 5:09)
Here's her apology about using the "N word":
Her tweet from 8 hours ago: "I just got cocaine in my eye & imgonna die?"- haha, not a junkie btw
The price of her dignity is 40$ if anyone's interested : https://twitter.com/missgucciwitch?r...Ctwgr%5Eauthor
Now, I'm not concluding anything, but if "Enzo always seemed like an asshole, so it's believable he raped someone", then I wonder what your assumption about this lady would be.
One thing is for sure: unless other people step out with similar stories about Enzo, she stands no chance in a trial.
edit: she just tweeted 10 mins ago about the holes in her hospital story: "BTW the treatment stay was supposed to be 45 days long but I started using my roommates phone around day 20 to get on social media & I left the center against medical advice around 26 days" - even if it's true, it still means she lied initially, + how could she use someone else's phone when they are supposed to take everyone's? I don't know whether you can leave a medical ward on your own, I know that when my mother was sent there, there was no way in hell she could've just said "I'm done, bye", but different countries so I don'T know.
Either way, she has to be the unluckiest person on Earth if among all her lies and trickery, this Enzo story is actually true. I doubt we will ever know.
Last edited by Volband; 01-22-2018 at 05:54 PM.
24.24.2.2866
So what exactly would you call that Minnie Driver tweet? sure seems like equating an indecent exposure to something like rape to me.
EDIT: I'm pretty sure most people with a brain would agree that it's ALL bad behavior, that wasn't really what was being disputed and i don't really think Bill was talking specifically of the Me Too or Time's Up movements. It's that there's these people out there seemingly ready to hang people for petty shit.
EDIT 2: What happened to a regard for maybe letting the punishment fit the crime?
Last edited by thelastdisciple; 01-22-2018 at 06:51 PM.
Administrator
Indecent exposure is traumatic for the victim. The perpetrators want their victims to be horrified. When I was 11, it happened to me (me too! See how that works?!) and my 10 year old sister in the parking lot of our apartment complex. For almost a year, I had nightmares about him and men like him. I was scared they were in the parking lot. Right outside my bedroom window. My badass mother chased him with a taser and we never saw him again. But I was still scared because I was traumatized. That’s how trauma works. It isn’t always logical but it is real.
What punishment has Minnie Driver asked for? She just said how some asshole made her feel with their shitty fucking actions. And what does Bill Maher do? Use her experience that he knows nothing about to basically say “I don’t give a fuck about her feelings, I has opinions.”
Really, all people have to do is not be shitty to each other and then no stories about their shitty actions would come out.
24.24.2.2866
I'm sorry that happened to you and your sister especially at the ages you both were and you have my empathy, look I completely understand the psychological element involved in experiences like this. Trauma is an entirely subjective thing that can hit anyone in a variety of different ways but is there absolutely zero objectivity toward a distinction of these matters anymore? We can lump it all together as being entirely shitty absolutely and we absolutely must educate others as a society so we can avoid any of it even coming up at all as a discussion in the first place. Good grief i just think there's something really wrong or tone deaf when you can have a person who was completely terrorized both mentally and physically against their will left to feel like their pain is exactly the same as someone who had another person flash them their genitals or be sent an unsolicited picture. Perhaps you haven't seen this kind of thing going on at all but i have and it's sickening.
Administrator
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand he's gone. https://deadspin.com/wwe-releases-en...ion-1822343420
Looks like he may have been released more for not reporting the word of his investigation to WWE than having actually committed it, but buh-bye Enzo.
Throbbing Member
If a woman makes the same points, is it still mansplaining?
Administrator
What’s the point of trying to quantify it if someone has always ready expressed that they feel violated? To make Bill Maher feel better about his problematic jokes?
The only reason to separate assault into degrees is for crime and punishment in the judicial system. The court of public opinion doesn’t need degrees. Nor do we need people like Maher speaking over people like Minnie driver. Has Bill Maher ever been sexually assaulted or harassed? If not, I don’t think he should speak on the subject at all. He should shut the fuck up and listen to the conversation presented by people who have lived through it.
It’s so good we are talking about it but Maher’s opinion is stupid and offensive. He considers himself a progressive but to me, he sounded like he’s living in the dark ages. I’ve been a massive fan of his since I was teenager but between this and the Christie fat jokes tribute, I feel like I’m done with him. I’ve always loved his ability to present different sides to every issue but he’s on the wrong side of this one.
Administrator
A woman did say these things. Caitlin somebody in response to Aziz Ansari's anonymous accuser. She's wrong too. But no, that's not called mansplaining. What is your point?
Throbbing Member
Just wanted to know if you would use a special, magical-seeming word to describe a woman making the same points and espousing the same thoughts/perspective. Judging from your other post above re: the "court of public opinion" not needing degrees and that you feel there is no point in trying to quantify suffering for pragmatic, social purposes, I feel like we wouldn't get very far in exchanging deeper disagreements right now.
Last edited by joplinpicasso; 01-24-2018 at 10:07 AM.
Administrator
‘Mansplaining’ is a necessary word.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MansplainingLily Rothman of The Atlantic defines it as "explaining without regard to the fact that the explainee knows more than the explainer, often done by a man to a woman",[5] and feminist author and essayist Rebecca Solnit ascribes the phenomenon to a combination of "overconfidence and cluelessness".
Isn’t this exactly what Bill Maher does in this segment? Glosses over Minnie Driver’s experience (and other’s experience) despite the fact the a) he’s never experienced it and b) wasn’t there.
If my use of that term offends you, then yes by all means, do not engage. However, i am using the term correctly.
Re: what I said about the court of public opinion. People who have been victimized don’t need their experience questioned and judged by random ass people who have no experience with assault and trauma. It isn’t helpful or supportive to say “at least you didn’t get raped”. Ranking or degree doesn’t make the thing that happened to them any less shitty. Like at all. Degrees only matter for punishment so that the sentence fits the crime.
What purpose could social ranking of assault serve? All that does make shitty people like Louis CK feel better about themselves and think their actions are less shitty than they actually are. “At least I’m not a rapist”.
Active Member
I feel like you're missing the situation in which a woman A.) totally wants to go back to an apartment on a first date and do sexual stuff and B.) may not want to do have penis-in-vagina intercourse, and still have her pleasure treated like it matters, and have her consent respected. It is possible to have casual sex wherein people are treated with respect and their consent is respected, and being down for casual sex doesn't mean someone doesn't deserve that!
Active Member
re: mansplaining. My wife is a professor with 2 phds and she tells me guys mansplain shit to her all the time. Randos will tell her basic 101 shit about her topic even after hearing she's a specialist in that field like they're imparting some special knowledge to her that she doesn't already know. It's cringeworthy to hear what guys tell her and it happens all the fucking time. The term was coined because we need a word for a phenomenon that is very very real, and which guys are often completely unaware of or oblivious to: that's the point. I think one of the most valuable lessons of feminist theory is the deconstruction of this idea that there is some objective social reality we all share and agree on: actually no, there are huge swathes of human interaction and activity that privilege (white, male, able-bodied, etc) completely obscures; banal example: I had no idea how ableist subways, sidewalks, or campuses are before I started pushing a stroller through them and got a glimpse of what it might be like for someone in a wheelchair.
Throbbing Member
Thanks for linking the Wiki page on mansplaining and including that very nice and academic definition for posterity (I'm guessing). My disagreement with the term doesn't come from an unfamiliarity with it. It's a silly term which is analytically and philosophically reductive, not to mention conversationally toxic, IMO. You're using the term correctly but I think the term is not correct.
As for your other thoughts, I do think there is a deeper disagreement here on the philosophy of suffering. It's been historically difficult to measure pain, suffering, etc., obviously, and create some kind of taxonomy of it as we could never agree on the parameters, and yes, it may not be psychologically helpful to a victim of harassment to say, "Hey, at least you didn't get raped." But the fact that you already distinguish between "random ass people who have no experience with assault and trauma" and those who have experienced assault and trauma means that there are degrees and it doesn't "only matter for punishment so that the sentence fits the crime." It isn't with the goal of making people like Louis CK feel better but rather not flattening out the wide and varied experiences of pain felt by those who have been sexually wronged.
EDIT: Re: Aggroculture- very unfortunate for your wife to deal with shitty, condescending people, and, if they are condescending to her because she's a female professor, even worse! I think the term and the idea of deconstruction is not accurate because it only goes so far and then retroactively tries to explain social dynamics, and the models which come out of those critique-based schools of thought aren't themselves open to deconstruction and critique. For instance, a male boss can say the same snooty remark to a male employee and a female employee; it may be labeled as toxic masculine competition in the former and mansplaining in the latter, but true intersectionality (which does has many social benefits) would always require you to go deeper into the boss's psyche and social influences (not to mention neurological and genetic), so why stop there? It's reductive and retroactive on large scale and I think counter-productive on a small scale.
I'm sorry for having hijacked this thread in this way.
Last edited by joplinpicasso; 01-24-2018 at 12:06 PM.
Active Member
And re: would you use the same word if it's a woman saying these things? No, of course not, because that's not the phenomenon we're talking about. The phenomenon is gender-based, hence the term "mansplaining". That's the key difference between "treating someone like they're an idiot and explaining things to them in a condescending manner" and "mansplaining". My better half is also a PhD (just one though) and she gets this regularly as well. Same with one of my dearest friends, who is an MD and PhD.
In other news, Nassar was just sentenced to 40-175 years. Good riddance.
Active Member
Sure, but what exactly is the outrage here? We all deserve respect, yet people shoulder us on the streets, cashiers can't even force a hello/bye out of their mouth, waiters are rude, people are jumping ahead of lines... and yes, two people in a situation where they non-verbally agreed to step on the next level (whether that level is kissing through the night on the couch or have intercourse) can be impatient or rude, and they can even misinterpret each other.
There is a line however between sexual assault (a very strong expression) and being a dork, and no one helps their case with stuff like "I blew him, BUT..." "He let me go as soon as I told him I wanted to go, BUT..." "He apologized later for misinterpreting the situation BUT..." But what? I totally see how a gentlemen would have behaved a lot differently, but so what? Should we really publicly condemn everyone who doesn't act as the nicest guy on the block? I think this is more of a lesson for women, than men. If you don't feel that you are getting the amount of respect you deserve, then don't feel bad about leaving - maybe they come around the next day, maybe they don't, but you preserved your integrity. This story is a sad representation of how - for some reason - some women think: "I'm gonna blow him, because he wants it and I'm just a woman, but the way he is treating me right now makes me not want to do it at all. Still, I am going to do it, because I guess that's what I worth." No, respect yourself the same way Aziz should have respected you. The more women do this, the more men (who are in need of a realization) will realize that it's pointless to force the macho shit as it leads to nothing but being alone with pornhub. But as long as it works, they will hardly give a damn.
Active Member
We should absolutely condemn people who do bad things. What?
Also, Aziz repeatedly ignored her verbal requests to slow down and stop. He'd agree, she'd stay, and then he'd try again. If you are criticizing the woman BEFORE you criticize him, if you are criticizing her MORE than you are criticizing him, and you are doing both of those things, you are wrong.
Member
INDEED. I hope he becomes someone's bitch in prison and I love the fact that the judge had no sympathy for him and told him "I just signed your death warrant". That's fucking awesome.
Active Member
Administrator
I included it for you. Because you think it’s a "a special, magical-seeming word“, i wanted to make sure we’re on the same page as to what it is. You are welcome. You quoted me and asked a question. I answered you despite how stupid and loaded I thought the question was. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt to make your point. I’m still not sure what that is, other than to say that you think the word mansplain is silly and special and magical. You also say it’s conversationally toxic but add no other information as to why you feel the need to express that in response to me and my post about Bill Maher’s mansplaining.
What is the disagreement? You’re making my point by saying it difficult to measure someone’s pain. That’s why its wrong for Maher to speak like he did about any woman’s personal experience. It’s disrespectful to assume we know anything about another person’s pain and questioning the severity of their experience possibly adds to their trauma.
You’re almost making a point here. “not flattening out the wide and varied experiences of pain felt by those who have been sexually wronged” No one is doing that tho. If you have examples of that, please share them.
Have you even watched the Bill Maher video? Have you read the interview with Minnie Driver? The reason it has gone this way is because you posted a snarky question without contributing to the discussion in even a slightly meaningful way. You don’t like my word choice. You don’t agree. Ok. Thanks for posting.
Member
I'm not really surprised by this considering that she took money from Harvey Weinstein all of these years. I guess she is crooked.
Active Member
I mean, I know Hillary is not responsible for the actions of her husband but also she was realllll chill about being married to a rapist. And the Weinstein shit, and just, color me utterly unsurprised.
Banned
But she is a woman , so this won’t be a big deal in the public eye.
Active Member
Yeah, obviously that's the part of this to focus on. Not Hillary's actions. Not the behavior of the man she shielded. But "she is a woman so this won't be as big of a deal" -- good take, dude.
Banned
I never said that should be the only focus. Can’t a subject be addressed from different angles?
Apparently not.
Trollhunter
Your “angle” is short-sighted.
CNN (the Clinton News Network to Trumpites) ran that story front and center on its website yesterday (I don’t have cable so I don’t know if it was as prominent on TV or not). It’s being covered.
Last edited by Swykk; 01-27-2018 at 10:05 AM.
Active Member
It's the only thing you brought up, which speaks volumes about your priorities.
If you don't in fact internally go "but double standards" when seeing reporting about a politician being shitty and protecting an abuser, and instead actually think about the actions of the people in power, and feel empathy for the person who had to experience the harassment, then I'm sure you appreciate being given a heads up that your choice to comment instead on Hillary's gender making this less of a big deal in the public eye shows a big lack of empathy, so you can course correct in the future. You're welcome!
Administrator
There isn’t a page in this thread where women aren’t blamed for the shitty actions of men.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Member
Here's a new one and.... I'm not surprised by this considering that he's a real piece of shit.... Scott Baio: https://www.thewrap.com/scott-baio-n...les-in-charge/
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