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Faceplams: Ok, thanks. The tweets by the radio person stated “underage”, and I imagine “child rape” as “under 16” or something. Hell, the age of consent in Brazil is 14.Originally Posted by Ruined
Throbbing Member
Ok, thanks. The tweets by the radio person stated “underage”, and I imagine “child rape” as “under 16” or something. Hell, the age of consent in Brazil is 14.
Throbbing Member
Yeah, it can get confusing regarding statutory rape in the States. IMO it should be the same in every state to avoid confusion. But, again, only speaking to statutory rape and not sexual assault. I know age of consent is different for other countries, adding to the confusion for non-U.S.A. residents.
Active Member
I think Tool are a band where MJK is just one part of the whole and I think separating the art from the artist would be quite easy especially when as people say, he hides in the back and just sings and isn’t creating massive energy. Trent on the other hand. Would be impossible to separate him from the music or NIN, especially live.
I find it difficult to believe though, especially after reading Kennedy’s book where she’d say things like his bed was a ‘safe bed’. I think women get intuition about when someone is really creepy and though she didn’t approve of stuff going on in the tour I didn’t get the impression any was non consensual
Active Member
https://twitter.com/furiesrus/status...008606208?s=21
Dont know what to make of that.
24.24.2.2866
For someone who had the same experience, doesn't sound like it effected them all that much.
Who would go through that and still want to listen to the guy's music? https://twitter.com/FuriesRUs/status/985631938328387584
Banned
That’s the problem with trolls and the internet.
I post in another forum where some users have a few fake facebook and twitter accounts, usually pretending to be girls. They’ve had these accounts for years, with followers, more or less regular activity, and use those accounts to stir shit up and troll different causes.
It’s mindboggling how some people can put so much time and effort to do that kind of thing, it speaks volumes of how immature and/or damaged they are.
I’m not saying this is the case, but it’s a possibility, specially if you consider it is very likely that those kids at 4chan might be behind this whole thing.
The internet is a fucked up place and can certainly bring out the worst in some people.
Throbbing Member
I’ll bite:
1- Pedophilia is about children. Not 17 year olds.
2- Her pinned tweet is about Roseanne. She claims to be a “lifelong Roseanne fan”.
3- WTF?
Active Member
No, but "innocent until proven guilty" is like bordering on becoming coded language at this point for victim blaming and being shitty and dismissive when people come forward.
Yeah, all of those famous men who have had their lives ruined by rape or abuse accusations. Polanski, Allen, Gibson, Depp, Von Trier, Penn, etc have all had a terrible time with their multiple awards and huge quantities of success.Anyone here, or an angry/fucked-up-in-the-head ex could go to twitter (or even worse, go to your workplace) and falsely claim you raped/sexually assaulted her/him 10 years ago, without any proof, just her/his words against yours. That could get you fired, or at the very least destroy the perception your friends/acquaintances/co-workers have of you. In your case (or anyone who isn’t famous), the solution might be “easy” (but still a pain in the ass (switch jobs, for example, which would still be unfair). In the case of someone famous, they’re fucked, their reputation and ability to make a living would take such a strong hit that it would be hard to shake off those claims even if proven innocent in court.
People whose lives are ruined by rape accusations are the exception, not the rule. Most people do not make false accusations.Take the case of Steven Galloway... his life got destroyed, his ability to make a living is pretty much gone, he’s sunk deep into depression and is living through hell because of this.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/arts...er-ubc-payout/
There is a reason there is this thing called due process.
The legal system more often than not rules against victims. Rape is a very hard thing to prove. The system is broken. Holding up a broken system as our like, way through this shit is ineffective. I do think, for someone falsely accused, it's their best bet. For a lot of reasons.
I actually in many cases am super for restorative justice, but we have a broken system and I understand why survivors don't subject themselves to it.
Banned
How is that victim blaming? That doesn’t make sense to me. Real victims have all the right to expose their abusers. Fake victims should be held accountable for the damage they inflict to the accused and to thereal victims.
The fact someone had a chance (and took it) to make a living and lots of money and get recognition doesn’t mean having their lives and reputations destroyed is ok or acceptable (I am talking about false accusations here). The fact that false accusations are the exception doesn’t mean they don’t cause any damage and can destroy people’s lives.
Again, due process. Turning this whole thing into a mob hysteria doesn’t help anyone, and might eventually backfire, hurting the credibility of real victims in the process.
And sure, rape is hard to prove 15 years later, but not right after the fact. That is why victims should be encouraged to act FAST. I agree that the system is broken, but I don’t think that shifting the balance the other way is the way to go if you want to make it a fair and just system. Sadly, as humans, we seem incapable of dealing with power. Shifting from taking all power and credibility from men and giving it to women is the most absurd way to go. Haven’t we learned yet that extremes are bad?
Last edited by tremolo; 06-30-2018 at 09:35 AM.
tempus est umbra in mente
I was actually more or less in agreement with what you were saying up until this point, where you suddenly made it sound like you don't understand the reasons which contribute to why it sometimes takes victims so long to come forward, and that's not even when we're talking about accusations against powerful people. I don't think there's anyone out there encouraging rape victims to "hang on and think about it for a while."
Active Member
A woman replied to that thread with some ridiculous story about the band Behemoth (I don’t think I’ve heard any of their songs so I’ve no love for them) and a ritual drug rape in a venue with the lighting which would have implicated so many people including venue staff that was obviously not true and you have people replying to her saying ‘I’m so sorry this happened to you’, it makes a mockery of the whole me too movement
Banned
I do understand the reasons, the trauma of the situation must be too much to handle with right away, plus the shame associated with it, the (unfair) sense of guilt, etc. But the proof is there, the fluids, the torn tissues, etc. That’s what I’m talking about, and since the longer you wait, the harder it becomes to gather evidence/proof, it is extremely important that people are taught get ingrained in their heads that they MUST go to the police ASAP. That should be taught and stressed by parents and in schools from very early on to once and for all end the stigma. Set up a support system that supports the victims and encourage them to act.
I didn’t say or imply that it’s the victim’s fault for not acting sooner or that I don’t understand why. My point is that we have to move towards ending that stigma in order to reduce the number of cases of unreported rape.
Last edited by tremolo; 06-30-2018 at 03:31 PM.
tempus est umbra in mente
Here's the problem though... of course, if you want to preserve evidence to back the claim, of course "the sooner the better," but this suggestion lands a little tone deaf... especially because a frequent rationale for dismissing an accusation is "well if she's telling the truth why'd it take her so long to come forward?" If we're going to work to combat stigma, that kind of derision is overdue for a shutdown
Alt-Left Leaning Cunt
Everyone deals with personal trauma in their own way and time. There is no rule for how people cope, and trying to implement any won't be successful.
Active Member
I think that's a valid suggestion and I'm pretty sure we're on opposite ends of the conclusion.
tempus est umbra in mente
Of course false accusations happen @DigitalChaos , although that consideration is increasingly being used as a red herring distraction rather than what seems like genuine concern. For all it's worth, I think the evidence is indicating that the claims against Maynard seem false... and I'm not a fanboy so I'm not siding on that due to personal investment. Yes, you can make anonymous claims, but they need their day in court with the masks off, and I actually do think it should be a greater crime than it is to falsely accuse someone of assault, public figure or not.
Administrator
if you're worried about false accusations, how about contributing to the end of rape culture? Then no one would believe false accusations because there would be no rape.
We can do it!
https://www.thenation.com/article/te...-rape-culture/
Alt-Left Leaning Cunt
And also, we've had this discussion time and time again... But in the US, false accusations of rape occur at exactly the same rate as other violent crimes. And yet, victims of sex crimes are still the only ones put on trial. This alternative reality of people running around and making false claims is just simply not accurate, despite what the internet would lead you to believe.
Dis-member
I’ll bring up the Duke Lacrosse case as great example of NOT jumping to conclusions.
EDIT: @sweeterthan - not sure what the facepalm is for. Just pointing out that there’s always two sides to every story and not jumping to the easy conclusion that everyone is guilty just because the internet says so. The Duke men’s lacrosse case is an unfortunate example of this.
Last edited by Krazy; 06-30-2018 at 10:44 PM.
i'm too thin
I feel like the argument (discounting the incel/men's rights crowd) is less about implying that false rape claims are being thrown around with higher frequency and more about the disproportionate effect a rape claim can have on the accused's life, whether it turns out to be true or false, compared to accusation of other crimes. The reason we've had this discussion time and time again is because this topic is perceived differently than most other crimes. Because, like I said before, it's a topic where people respond very passionately as a sort of reflexive reaction to a lifetime of social power imbalance so people are just primed to destroy the life of an abuser without entertaining the idea that a story might be false because they feel like that's questioning the victim.
Active Member
Does it, though? I can imagine selling drugs, robbing someone, hurting an animal, assaulting someone non-sexually, killing someone, could also have incredibly negative consequences to someone and I think in may instances could even be worse than sexual assault. It's not like the comparable crimes for false accusation is like... pretending you have a co-op membership.
Alt-Left Leaning Cunt
Right. Sexual assault is just normalized and perceived to be the victim's fault. Fuck. Even the few people who get found guilty of rape hardly ever see an appropriate punishment for it.
Active Member
I don't consider anonymity (at least, publicly facing anonymity) to be as significant an arbiter of what makes a claim of being sexually assaulted credible as other factors. If the approach is binary, I'd far prefer to refuse to dismiss anonymous allegations than to wholly write them off on those grounds.
Last edited by playwithfire; 06-30-2018 at 10:22 PM.
Active Member
I think a lot of issues with rape / assault victims not giving physical evidence is perhaps due to not wanting to go to the police and feeling compelled to give a statement or take things further. Maybe there should be ‘no pressure’ agencies set up who will store this evidence (if it’s possible) in case the victim wants to take it further. Although having dna evidence in this case wouldn’t matter because it still wouldn’t prove the consensual or not nature of the act
i'm too thin
You can't possibly believe this with most of those crimes, right? You think a celebrity would have such a huge public dent in their career if somebody made a Twitter account anonymously accusing them of selling drugs, robbing somebody, or assaulting somebody, i.e. getting into a fight? There's no way. You can't really believe that there isn't a different perception of overall behavior for this topic. There isn't a generation-wide social awakening and revolution of anger from past drug users that would destroy somebody's career with nothing more than an anonymous Twitter saying a singer sold them a joint after a show once.
Administrator
as mentioned multiple times by multiple people, the amount of false rape reports versus the amount of actual (and mostly non reported) assault crimes isn't even comparable. you and @Krazy are literally like "yeah but what about these two known examples?"
I don't have the answers there. I don't know how to solve it but I do believe if that if we as society work on making it not normal to be harassed or assaulted, both of these types of incidents would go down. Sure, its naive at worse and optimistic at best. Dismissing it as immature tells me you don't think you have any part to play in ending rape culture. But we all do. Please contribute. Thanks!
i'm too thin
The main point I'm really trying to make is that the approach is so very much not binary. A lack of belief for allegations does not require an inherent dismissal of those allegations, nor does a lack of dismissal require belief.
Administrator
are you forgetting about the damn sex offender president? are you trolling?
the unchecked power is the rape culture that allowed president pussy grabber to happen.
i'm too thin
A criticism of a specific method of checking power doesn't equate to a criticism of checks on power.
Active Member
Well, in the context I wasn't really considering anonymous/celebrity but more like "My boyfriend hit me" vs "My boyfriend raped me" and I certainly didn't mean something as benign as a joint. But that said, yes, I absolutely believe that accusations other than rape can be equally life-destroying, if not more so, because people will believe them more readily.
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