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Thread: Don't be a shithead in threads about sexual assault.

  1. #31
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    From now on, I refuse to acknowledge or respond to anything he posts. In fact, I'm going to rid myself of it entirely ...

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by eskimo View Post
    Victim blaming isn't even OK here. Fuck off, nobody has time for this shit.
    I'm not fucking victim blaming. I'm saying if someone has a chance to STOP the assault from happening, then do it. Don't be passive.

    I understand that someone might feel terror or frozen........ what can they do? ..but if someone has any way of stopping it from happening, then go for it. Of course what the other person is doing is despicable.

    For example: someone is trying to kill me. I will try my fucking best to prevent them from doing so.

    Again, I understand some people cannot act because of terror....... however, if you can act, act. if you can say no, say no. better not being assaulted than being assaulted. WE ALL AGREE THE PERPETRATORS ARE DESPICABLE AND THEIR ACTIONS ARE UNACCEPTABLE. I'm talking about prevention from the potential victim's side.

    As for the perpetrators... eversonpoe has rightly pointed out that education is of absolute importance.... once people KNOW..absolutely know that it's unacceptable, less people will do it.. ALSO, it might help to make punishments for these crimes MORE SEVERE.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by cashpiles View Post
    I'm not fucking victim blaming.
    And that's where I stopped reading.

    If you won't acknowledge that what you just posted was victim blaming, then fuck you.

    Also, I didn't just say fuck you.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by cashpiles View Post
    I'm not fucking victim blaming. I'm saying if someone has a chance to STOP the assault from happening, then do it. Don't be passive.

    I understand that someone might feel terror or frozen........ what can they do? ..but if someone has any way of stopping it from happening, then go for it. Of course what the other person is doing is despicable.

    For example: someone is trying to kill me. I will try my fucking best to prevent them from doing so.

    Again, I understand some people cannot act because of terror....... however, if you can act, act. if you can say no, say no. better not being assaulted than being assaulted. WE ALL AGREE THE PERPETRATORS ARE DESPICABLE AND THEIR ACTIONS ARE UNACCEPTABLE. I'm talking about prevention from the potential victim's side.

    As for the perpetrators... eversonpoe has rightly pointed out that education is of absolute importance.... once people KNOW..absolutely know that it's unacceptable, less people will do it.. ALSO, it might help to make punishments for these crimes MORE SEVERE.
    you're still not listening. you're not learning. you just keep reiterating the same, unhelpful points over and over. shut up and actually try to understand what people are telling you.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by eversonpoe View Post
    you're still not listening. you're not learning. you just keep reiterating the same, unhelpful points over and over. shut up and actually try to understand what people are telling you.
    I have clearly pointed out that being in terror would prevent someone from fighting back or preventing it. I feel great sadness for that kind of situation of helplessness.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    From now on, I refuse to acknowledge or respond to anything he posts. In fact, I'm going to rid myself of it entirely ...
    I keep telling everyone his gimmick has been stale since he ran out of fake NIN news to post but that stuff was at least amusing.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by cashpiles View Post
    are you “white”? Because in social justice there is a hierarchy, and black people will always be seen as bigger victims than white people.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aladdinsanity View Post

    There are feminists and social justice warriors that definitely fucking follow a hierarchy of victimhood. You can watch hundreds of videos on youtube and read countless articles that support my claim. So fuck yourself.

    my point about “are you white” directly ties to that bias with certain feminists and sjws.

    My other question about what the content of the sexual assault was was a question I wanted to know the answer to. THE ANSWER to that question might help explain why the director of the transgender support group and the other leaders DID NOTHING about the sexual assault claim.

    Your reaction to my initial questions makes me sick. I see that that thread is not about explanations or investigation now... only support and sharing of experiences. GOT IT. Fully understood. But I think my questions are valid and worthy of answers... It’s funny...how intolerant some of you are who claim to fight against intolerance.
    Last edited by cashpiles; 11-03-2017 at 09:42 PM.

  9. #39
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    Hey if someone does not want to relive their trauma for all to see, that is their choice. You do not get to be a shithead while attempting to bully it out of them.

  10. #40
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    Right, and this isn’t a court of law, we aren’t here to question anything because it is NONE OF OUR BUSINESS.

    But I’ve seen this many times, from HR, from various organizations: they protect members and your complaint is considered an exaggeration, a hassle, frivolous, nothing important, they were just kidding around, just being friendly, etc.

    Until the lawyers arrive.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarah K View Post
    Hey if someone does not want to relive their trauma for all to see, that is their choice. You do not get to be a shithead while attempting to bully it out of them.
    2 questions... that's bullying? if they don't want to answer, they don't have to. obviously.

    as for the hierarchy of social justice.
    @eversonpoe probably wasn't believed by some people when he told people about his experience.... but some SJW's will say... only women get it..never men..which is bullshit. it's people. some people do terrible things.

    I had a "psychotic" roommate.. that would not let me sleep. she wanted to have sex with me and I wouldn't let her. I literally had to fight her for an hour...and not just once... I didn't hit her..I just kept pushing her away forcefully. she kept coming at me trying to wrestle me to the bed. I threatened to call the police because I told her I didn't want her as a roommate anymore and she refused to move out.. I left the country I was in to get rid of her. this was about 1 months of non-stop harassment at night when I was trying to sleep. luckily I was physically stronger than her.

    on the other hand, I have done some super shady things. I have pushed sexual activity on 3 women. they had to tell me to stop for me to stop.. and they were upset. I did stop when they told me to stop though.. however I carry this guilt.. I know now what I did was wrong... not just on a mental level. I partially blame all the pick up artist shit I used to follow. But ultimately it was me.
    Last edited by cashpiles; 11-03-2017 at 11:29 PM.

  12. #42
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    Yes. Asking invasive personal questions about someone's experience, and then repeating them after the person has clearly stated that they do not wish to answer, is bullying.

    As someone who has been victimized in this manner yourself, it seems extremely weird how you always come into these threads and troll. It is extremely shitty that this type of abuse is so commonplace and accepted - none of us should have to deal with this.

    It sounds like your familiarity with social justice is viewed through the lens of online trolling. If anything, we push that *anyone* can be a victim of these types of crimes. "Rape is rape". Where it gets more gendered is when we discuss the steps we can take to address it. Yes, anyone can be raped, and yes, sometimes women are rapists. But the vast majority of the time, men are the ones carrying out these assaults. And until we discuss the culture that has created this mess, which includes discussing gender roles and the harm they do, then nothing will be accomplished. When addressing a societal issue, first discussing the biggest source of that problem is what makes the most logical sense. "Yeah, but" just distracts from making progress.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by cashpiles View Post
    I have pushed sexual activity on 3 women. they had to tell me to stop for me to stop.. and they were upset.
    Do you ever wonder if there were others who were scared to tell you to stop?

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    Quote Originally Posted by playwithfire View Post
    Do you ever wonder if there were others who were scared to tell you to stop?
    Good point.

    Based on that, what’s the solution to that problem? Maybe keeping man from taking the initiative and instead letting women do it? Honest question, I can’t think of another answer.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by tremolo View Post
    Good point.

    Based on that, what’s the solution to that problem? Maybe keeping man from taking the initiative and instead letting women do it? Honest question, I can’t think of another answer.
    the solution is open communication, coupled with no longer teaching men that they're allowed to do whatever they want and take what they don't have.

    sexual assault is about power, and many men feel like they have the power to do anything because our societal structures are set up to imbue them with that sense. it's the same reason that the idiots in the government right now are trying to make it impossible to get birth control, impossible to get an abortion, and they're trying to take away the adoption tax credit. do they actually care about children? clearly not. they simply want to control women's bodies.

  16. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by tremolo View Post
    Good point.

    Based on that, what’s the solution to that problem? Maybe keeping man from taking the initiative and instead letting women do it? Honest question, I can’t think of another answer.
    The solution is to never - in his own words here - PUSH sexual activity on anyone. EVER. PERIOD.

    There have been two times in my entire dating history where something as simple as a first kiss happened smoothly, because I wasn't positive it was welcome. I go full on Hollywood-geek-level awkward and literally fumble out some words about how I'm not sure if I should kiss them or not if I don't actually know they would want it. That's generally been received as endearing, and I *think* (only speculating) that it's because my dates have seen, in that moment, that I'd rather risk looking like an idiot than make an unwanted advance.

    The solution to avoid unwanted sexual activity isn't to just tell men to never ever initiate anything and leave it up to women. That's just dumb for a number of reasons, including the fact that it ignores numerous problems, and that yes, women can rape men (although it is far, far, far, far, far less common). The solution is open communication between parties as well as an education system that stresses the ability to read and interpret cues that can tell you whether someone is fully willing, mildly hesitant, or unwilling but afraid to say so. But what it really boils down to is this: if you're not 100% clear, DON'T DO ANYTHING.
    Last edited by theimage13; 11-04-2017 at 12:57 PM. Reason: realized I wrote part of that backwards

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    Quote Originally Posted by theimage13 View Post
    But what it really boils down to is this: if you're not 100% clear, DON'T DO ANYTHING.
    We shouldn't have to stress this, but ... that also means "if they are so drunk that they couldn't legally drive, or they're so drunk or high they are unconscious, don't do anything; because they can't legally consent."

  18. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by eversonpoe View Post
    the solution is open communication, coupled with no longer teaching men that they're allowed to do whatever they want and take what they don't have.

    sexual assault is about power, and many men feel like they have the power to do anything because our societal structures are set up to imbue them with that sense. it's the same reason that the idiots in the government right now are trying to make it impossible to get birth control, impossible to get an abortion, and they're trying to take away the adoption tax credit. do they actually care about children? clearly not. they simply want to control women's bodies.
    That is not my point.

    How do I know that whoever is agreeing to my “advances” is doing it because they actually feel that way and not doing it because they feel they can’t say “no” for whatever reason?

  19. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by theimage13 View Post
    The solution is to never - in his own words here - PUSH sexual activity on anyone. EVER. PERIOD.

    There have been two times in my entire dating history where something as simple as a first kiss happened smoothly, because I wasn't positive it was welcome. I go full on Hollywood-geek-level awkward and literally fumble out some words about how I'm not sure if I should kiss them or not if I don't actually know they would want it. That's generally been received as endearing, and I *think* (only speculating) that it's because my dates have seen, in that moment, that I'd rather risk looking like an idiot than make an unwanted advance.

    The solution to avoid unwanted sexual activity isn't to just tell men to never ever initiate anything and leave it up to women. That's just dumb for a number of reasons, including the fact that it ignores numerous problems, and that yes, women can rape men (although it is far, far, far, far, far less common). The solution is open communication between parties as well as an education system that stresses the ability to read and interpret cues that can tell you whether someone is fully willing, mildly hesitant, or unwilling but afraid to say so. But what it really boils down to is this: if you're not 100% clear, DON'T DO ANYTHING.
    Define “push”. Define “sexual advances.”


    People insist on seeing this as black and white, when there’s actually a huge grey area where the limits of what’s ok and what is not ok can’t be rigidly defined because it changes constantly on a case to case basis.

  20. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by tremolo View Post
    That is not my point.

    How do I know that whoever is agreeing to my “advances” is doing it because they actually feel that way and not doing it because they feel they can’t say “no” for whatever reason?
    Check your self at the time? No use of threatening or scary body language, and providing the other party with the ease and ability to decline the invitation? And, ask and give them the option of declining? It's not as complicated as it sounds. I know in some people's heads, they think this is an invitation to some kind of "trick," like "omg, if I don't get a signed contract that's notarized I could be sent to jail." No, it's not complicated. Not unless, of course, the other person is a minor or is under the influence enough to not be able to provide consent. Or, you're so focused on getting laid that you don't take inventory of your own behavior relative to the other person. Consensual acts between two consenting and caring adults isn't hard to figure out?

    The long-held narrative of "no means no" has been replaced with "yes means yes." This is to counter many long-held laws that require a victim to prove that s/he "fought" the attack, by biting, kicking, screaming, etc., thereby putting the entire responsibility on the victim to prevent the attack and whether or not the victim put up "enough" of a fight. Also, again, really drunk or high people can't consent or say no or fight, especially if their are semi-conscious or unconscious. That person ain't necessarily able to say "no."
    Last edited by allegro; 11-04-2017 at 01:49 PM.

  21. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    Check your self at the time? No use of threatening or scary body language, and providing the other party with the ease and ability to decline the invitation? And, ask and give them the option of declining? It's not as complicated as it sounds. I know in some people's heads, they think this is an invitation to some kind of "trick," like "omg, if I don't get a signed contract that's notarized I could be sent to jail." No. Not unless, of course, the other person is a minor or is under the influence enough to not be able to provide consent.
    It is complicated when everything you are mentioning leads to a “yes” and the next day it happens that said “yes” wasn’t honest because the person wasn’t comfortable saying “no”.

    I insist, it’s not black and white as some people want to make it look.

    I’m talking about a regular situation “boy meets girl” scenario, not a boss inviting his assistant to stay late and go for dinner.

  22. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by tremolo View Post
    It is complicated when everything you are mentioning leads to a “yes” and the next day it happens that said “yes” wasn’t honest because the person wasn’t comfortable saying “no”.

    I insist, it’s not black and white as some people want to make it look.

    I’m talking about a regular situation “boy meets girl” scenario, not a boss inviting his assistant to stay late and go for dinner.
    No, honey, I'm in my 50s and have done plenty of dates, I've been married twice, I've had lots of experience, and no, it's not that complicated. It's not.

    People consenting to sex and then feeling remorseful later and declaring it a sexual assault is a narrative portrayed on TV or online or whatever, but it's very very very rare and it's not too difficult to figure out.

    Yes means yes is black and white, people with experience know this, they feel good about saying yes, enthusiastic, and the assaulter KNOWS this stuff but just doesn't care.

    If a "too scared to say stop" instance happens, that's likely involving a weapon or strong physical overpowering; it's simple, what would make somebody THAT scared? Sex, itself? Not likely. Although, that's the narrative that held for a LONG time, up until probably the 60s, where it was assumed that all females are "afraid" of sex because it's dirty, etc., so it was expected that all girls will say "no" but somehow they REALLY mean "yes."

    Here, I think this is a pretty good article. For what it's worth, I'm glad you're asking this question if you mean it as a serious question and not just playing Devil's Advocate. "Enthusiastic Consent" is a pretty easily-understood thing, especially when you're in the heat of the moment. Being turned-on shouldn't turn off a person's compassion and empathy and respect for other people.

    in the case of Harvey Weinstein, even THOSE victims were saying "NO." He didn't listen. He didn't care.

    Listen to this verbal exchange. Does this sound like consent?

    Last edited by allegro; 11-04-2017 at 02:17 PM.

  23. #53
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    Don't be a shithead in threads about sexual assault.

    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    No, honey, I'm in my 50s and have done plenty of dates, I've been married twice, I've had lots of experience, and no, it's not that complicated. It's not.

    Willingly consenting to sex and then feeling remorseful later and declaring sexual assault is a narrative portrayed on TV or online or whatever, but it's very very rare and it's not too difficult to figure out.

    Yes means yes is black and white, people with experience know this, they feel good about saying yes, and the assaulter KNOWS this stuff but just doesn't care.

    If a "too scared to say stop" instance happens, that's likely involving a weapon or strong physical overpowering; it's simple, what would make somebody THAT scared?

    in the case of Harvey Weinstein, even THOSE victims were saying "NO." He didn't listen. He didn't care.

    Listen to this verbal exchange. Does this sound like consent?

    I do not care about your personal experiences, they are as meaningless as mine in the great scope of things and by no means they can be used as a set of rules to define behaviour and human interactions.

    The problem is that in today’s world yes doesn’t necessarily means yes.

    Again, it’s not black and white.

    Edit: i’m not playing devils advocate. There is no way to justify abuse. My point has more to do with how society is trying to establish a set of strict rules about something that is not black and white. For you it might be different because you grew up, dated, got married in different times. Same applies to me. For the young ones it is a very different story.

    And to make it clear, I’m not talking about situations where there is a clear problem in the power balance, so the Weinstein thing doesn’t apply, because that is a power issue that is not present in the scenario of 2 strangers meeting/having sex.
    Last edited by tremolo; 11-04-2017 at 02:38 PM.

  24. #54
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    The law has very clear definitions. We can’t cover every single scenario so we focus on the most common.

    Teaching young people that consensual sex isn’t black and white therefore there is no way to define consentual sex or assault; is that the goal, then?

    That maybe strangers should not have sex because there is no way to really define enthusiastic consent? It’s so “gray” that it’s too risky to have?

    Experience is what informs us; gives us perspective. A person with zero or limited experience is taught (or should be, anyway) that “enthusiastic consent” is a thing.
    Last edited by allegro; 11-04-2017 at 02:46 PM.

  25. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    The law has very clear definitions. We can’t cover every single scenario so we focus on the most common.

    Teaching young people that consensual sex isn’t black and white therefore there is no way to define consentual sex or assault; is that the goal, then?

    That maybe strangers should not have sex because there is no way to really define enthusiastic consent? It’s so “gray” that it’s too risky to have?

    Experience is what informs us; gives us perspective. A person with zero or limited experience is taught (or should be, anyway) that “enthusiastic consent” is a thing.
    No, that’s not the goal and you are taking the whole point to the absurd.

    I asked a question that hasn’t been answered considering our reality today in 2017.

    I do understand your point, but it doesn’t apply to the here and now. Truth is that what you mention as consent doesn’t apply anymore as you think it does (i’m thinking university/college students).

    As important as our experiencesare to ourselves, we cannot build a case and generalize based on them, since they represent a miserable % of the reality that is out there.

  26. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by tremolo View Post
    No, that’s not the goal and you are taking the whole point to the absurd.

    I asked a question that hasn’t been answered considering our reality today in 2017.

    I do understand your point, but it doesn’t apply to the here and now. Truth is that what you mention as consent doesn’t apply anymore as you think it does (i’m thinking university/college students).

    As important as our experiencesare to ourselves, we cannot build a case and generalize based on them, since they represent a miserable % of the reality that is out there.
    We actually had a HUGE (multi-page) discussion here about this topic before, I’d dig it up in the Headlines forum but I’m on my iPhone and not home, but it linked the below article and stemmed from the Stubenville trial and then the California Law (which was specifically aimed at college students), anyway I was in this discussion 4 years ago so I’m out, nothing more I can say that hasn’t already been stated (human sexuality has not changed, this is about rape culture).


    Edit, here is the prior discussion:
    http://www.echoingthesound.org/commu...-culture/page5


    http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/03/living...icy/index.html
    Last edited by allegro; 11-04-2017 at 04:14 PM.

  27. #57
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    If you cannot communicate clearly and effectively enough to gather if you have affirmative verbal consent, then don't fuck anyone.

  28. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by tremolo View Post
    I asked a question that hasn’t been answered considering our reality today in 2017.
    It really has, actually.

    Have you ever thought about asking someone "If you're having a good time, what will I see and hear?" and the reverse "If you're having a bad time, what will I see and hear?" or "What does a bad time look like for you?" or "What do you like?" or "How will you let me know if you aren't enjoying things?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by playwithfire View Post
    It really has, actually.

    Have you ever thought about asking someone "If you're having a good time, what will I see and hear?" and the reverse "If you're having a bad time, what will I see and hear?" or "What does a bad time look like for you?" or "What do you like?" or "How will you let me know if you aren't enjoying things?"
    It doesn’t apply to me.

    And having that kind of dialogue, besides being unnatural and ridiculous, doesn’t guarantee anything.

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    I don't know why you think it is unnatural and ridiculous unless you can't fathom the idea of having conversations with the people you have sex with where what is good/bad for them is something you may give a shit about.

    "Hey I'm going to sit on this person's face but god forbid I ask them how they might let me know they don't want to keep going or if they enjoy facesitting"

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