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Thread: Twiggys abuse/rape allegations

  1. #1
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    Twiggys abuse/rape allegations

    Let’s talk about the allegations here.

    https://pitchfork.com/news/marilyn-m...cused-of-rape/

    Admin edit:
    Jessicka Adam's facebook essay for reference

    I have lived with the overwhelming shame and guilt of being raped for well over 20 years now. Like many survivors, I unknowingly hid an abusive relationship in a most unhealthy way, masking it behind a fun loving, creatively artistic facade I struggled to wear on the outside world. Since I roamed in similar musical circles and shared many friends with this rapist, the shock of bumping into him in social situations would leave me sick to my stomach. I’d sometimes find myself drinking too much to pretend he was not there. These unbearable occurrences often tested my own limits or my strengths, yet I found my own weakened behavior seemingly sickened me every unfortunate time I found myself in the same room as him. I did not want him to own the power I assumed was his in every unwarranted encounter, so I eventually compartmentalized the recurring nightmares of running into my rapist, Jeordie White.In 1997, I was warned by my band’s record company that if I revealed my story publically, there would be a very good chance that my band Jack Off Jill would be black balled by concert promoters, radio programmers, and other bands and their managers. Jack Off Jill was also warned of running the risk of losing our coveted record deal (which they gave us!!,) as they were certain no one would ever take a rape victim in this male dominated music business seriously, nevermind a ferocious, disenfranchised, outspoken overweight front woman such as myself! The label blatantly feared the big machine behind Marilyn Manson would use their power to destroy not only Jack Off Jill, but my name, Jessicka, as well. The pressure and guilt of the inevitable repercussions of my rape story affecting my band’s livelihood, happiness and success kept me silent for years.

    In 2015, while playing some reunion shows with the original line up of Jack Off Jill, Alternative Press Magazine asked me in an interview “What would older, wiser Jessicka tell her wilder, 19-year-old self?” My reply was:
    “Don't allow anybody—especially your current boyfriend—to verbally ridicule you, psychically abuse and rape you, fat-shame you, break your spirit, make you second-guess yourself and ultimately steal your identity. Don't worry: He’ll get trapped in the green dress he stole. It becomes his curse rather than a gift, trust me."
    https://www.altpress.com/…/legendary_riot_goths_jack_off_ji…

    This statement may have seemed vague to most, but to many Jack Off Jill fans, they understood my words loud and clear. I began to receive an enormous amount of emails of support and love. And unfortunately, the stories started to unspool. Women (even young girls) revealed their horror stories, and all of a sudden I was not alone. I was not the only one who was a victim of my rapist. Others had also been abused by the man I was referencing.


    As all of these women were reaching out to me, I had been recovering from a near death illness. The amount of guilt I felt for not reporting him when my rape initially occurred really began to eat at me. Even with my incredibly supportive husband at my side, the compunction of not speaking my truth hit me like a freight train. The bitter tears of self reproach made my chances of my own recovery feel …unattainable.


    In all this dismay, I made another vague reference on July 19 of this year on Facebook. This post, like my emotions, was all over the place. I was upset. I was angry. I had had enough, and was still dealing with pain, both psychical and visceral. Who is anyone to say what a survivor should or should not have done? Or should or should not have said? There was no playbook for me to read to navigate the right way to tell my story. I just survived on rage an unfocused instinct. Is there a time limit on telling the truth or does it expire with age? Is there a right way to say it? It being the truth. 20 plus years of hiding this shame and rage, so I wouldn’t rock anyone’s boats, or roll any heads? Time was running out for me. I’d had enough.

    After much needed therapy, and long mindful and emotional discussions with my closest friends and family who kept my secret “safe” for me all these years, I have finally made the right decision. To tell MY STORY.

    I met Jeordie White when I was 18 years old. I was not experienced in healthy relationships, and up until meeting him I assumed all relationships were that women’s role was to act subservient. Unfortunately, this was all I knew, as I had grown up with an abusive father who conditioned me this way.

    We moved in with each other rather quickly, much to my mother and Aunt's dismay. We lived with a roommate named Pete. Pete was kind, caring, and treated me like a younger sister. He often protected me when Jeordie's temper began to show itself. In some warped way, this became my unhinged make-believe 2nd family.

    Once our band Jack Off Jill started to gain a following locally, abuse and mild violence between Jeordie and I began to escalate. He got increasingly jealous when I hung out with male friends. He jumped into the New River as a protest to me giving a male friend a ride home. He began to body shame me. He slashed my tires. When I came home late one night, he put one of the stuffed animals he bought me into the burning oven in the kitchen. But, I stayed, because I was conditioned since a child to endure my abuser. And this for me… was love at 19.

    The physical abuse did not start until a few months later when Jeordie took a cage full of our pet white mice and dumped them into my mother's car that I was borrowing at the time. That is the first day I can remember him hitting me over me over and over as the mice scattered. He later apologized profusely and said it would never happen again.

    But it happened again, and again, and often. He stacked junk yard TVs in front of my car so I could not leave as he did not have a car or could drive at the time. Everything he did was in order to control me or fat shame me. I fought back, but I was never able to find the courage to leave. I was broken. He was able to take my power away while still projecting that he cared for me.

    On Christmas Eve of 1993, my friend Brad Stewart aka Gidget Geinof (bass player and co-founder of Marilyn Manson) was hospitalized after overdosing on heroin. While hospitalized, Brad received a message from Marilyn Manson's lawyer via FedEx that he was fired due to his drug use. Brad was replaced by Jeordie White, who Manson renamed Twiggy Ramirez. In order to cement his spot and further humiliate Brad and myself (who he thought I was having an affair with), Jeordie adopted Brad's colorful dreadlocks, moppet persona, and stripped tights with shorts look. He also began to wear my thrift store dresses and put on his make up like mine. He eventually would get dresses made to look exactly like the ones I wore. Jeordie overnight went from dressing like he was in Metallica to unabashedly wearing dresses in Marilyn Manson within weeks. Not only did he abuse me, but he also managed to unapologetically take an identity that I created for myself, and run with this as his own.

    Trent Reznor was in South Florida around this time and we all went out on night. Trent and I struck up a conversation and Jeordie became so enraged he demanded we leave immediately. He began driving my car erratically on the highway, all the while punching me the chest several times,knocking the air out of my lungs. He proceeded to rip off the rear view mirror and threw it out the open window. Throughout the madness, this was a rather poignant moment. He just couldn’t bear to face himself in that mirror. So he proceeded to destroy it. Perhaps after everything he had done to somebody he claimed he loved was the sick reason he needed to become somebody else.

    I feared for my life that night. I stayed awake while he slept. At this point I wanted to leave him, but at this time most of my friends who had not moved away were also too enmeshed in the Manson camp to find a way to do the right thing and stand up for me. No one was comfortable speaking about it, let alone thinking of exposing to the world the horror I was dealing with.

    During a short break on tour opening for Nine Inch Nails,
    Jeordie returned home to what was just Pete's apartment, as I was now staying with friends. I knew at that point that Jeordie had not been faithful on tour, including being with women whom I to this day respect and considered my musical contemporaries. All this led to an argument I never saw coming. He forced me on to the floor with his hand around my neck. I said NO. I said NO. I said it so loud enough, that Pete came rushing in from the other room to get him off of me. But I had been raped. I had been raped by somebody I thought I loved. That night I slept in Pete's bed and cried myself to sleep. Neither of us discussed it until years later as we both had our own shame about not reporting it.
    It's never easy to tell the truth when you know how much backlash you'll receive.

    But feeling guilt and shame about now knowing I am not my rapist’s only survivor has been an even worse albatross to bear.

    I saw Jeordie throughout the 90's. I even toured with Manson in 99' after being convinced by my label it was best for our band. After that I was tired of being told what was best for me by people who did not care if these decisions were painful or put me in harms way.

    Some of you reading this may know Jeordie White. You might know him as the funny guy who you shared a moment with. Or the guy who held the door for you when you left the gig. Or the cool guy who played on your last album. I know first hand that Jeordie, but I also have lived with and survived the other, less known Jeordie White.

    For women to own our power we must stand up for each other. It's the only way we can confront and combat men who think they hold power over us. I am thankful to know that there are men out there who do not share this gross ideology and stand with us. This is an intersectional uphill battle for women and the men who are scared for their reputation with other men to defend us.

    To those of you who are reading this and it has allowed you to come to terms with your demons, I am sending you all of the love in my heart, the support I can offer, and the respect you all so deserve.

    Jessicka Addams











    Last edited by tony.parente; 10-21-2017 at 03:39 PM.

  2. #2
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    I think this belongs in the News forum.

    Also, I am disappointed to see how many rape apologists there are on ETS. For shame.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aggroculture View Post

    Also, I am disappointed to see how many rape apologists there are on ETS. For shame.
    Lmao everyone who disagrees with you is not only alt-right, but also a rape apologist now? You're absolutely ridiculous
    Last edited by Airbornefeline; 10-21-2017 at 05:37 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aggroculture View Post
    I think this belongs in the News forum.

    Also, I am disappointed to see how many rape apologists there are on ETS. For shame.
    This forum used to HATE Twiggy. Because he had sexual relations with a former Admin’s gf. As depicted in a few Meathead animations.

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    @allegro Wasn't aware of that. My only knowledge of Twiggy is he plays bass and he is very strange. that's about it.

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    Twiggy makes some good music, but I mean... He's not amazing enough to get away with rape, battery, and having sex with 12 year olds like John Lennon, David Bowie, Jimmy Page, et al. You don't get to have your deviancy excused without putting in the work it seems.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Airbornefeline View Post
    Lmao everyone who disagrees with you is not only alt-right, but also a rape apologist now? You're absolutely ridiculous
    Please let’s try not to turn this into yet another polarized and antagonistic shitfest.
    Last edited by botley; 10-21-2017 at 06:15 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by botley View Post
    Please let’s try not to turn this into yet another polarized and antagonistic shitfest.
    Why are you quoting that and not the post above it calling people rape apologists?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfkiller View Post
    Why are you quoting that and not the post above it calling people rape apologists?
    Well, because someone in the Manson thread basically said "don't lynch Jeordie" (as if anyone would) and cast doubt on Jessika relating traumatic events that happened to her because "it's just words without any proof". Apparently we "have to keep an open mind" and not let "feminism" tarnish our perspective. The idea that rich, famous people's lives are ruined by rape allegations is... bizarrely unfathomable to me, considering how many powerful men get away with it for SO FUCKING LONG. Also, "you think anyone who disagrees with you is xyz" is a rhetorical framework designed to divide up the discussion about this into warring sides. So, yeah, please let's not do that.

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    Calling people rape apologists for not blindly believing/taking sides in sexual assault allegations isn't designed to divide the discussion? Okay. ETS as usual, carry on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by botley View Post
    Also, "you think anyone who disagrees with you is xyz" is a rhetorical framework designed to divide up the discussion about this into warring sides. So, yeah, please let's not do that.
    Okay genuine question because I must be missing it, but literally where are the members of alt-right and rape apologists that are apparently so rampant here? He started calling people "alt-right" as soon as some dissenting opinions were put out there. Then came the "rape apologists" comment despite literally NO ONE doing or saying stuff like that at all. That's not attempting to polarize and divide up the discussion but me pointing out how ridiculous to say shit like that without merit is?

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    Quote Originally Posted by botley View Post
    Well, because someone in the Manson thread basically said "don't lynch Jeordie" (as if anyone would) and cast doubt on Jessika relating traumatic events that happened to her because "it's just words without any proof". Apparently we "have to keep an open mind" and not let "feminism" tarnish our perspective. The idea that rich, famous people's lives are ruined by rape allegations is... bizarrely unfathomable to me, considering how many powerful men get away with it for SO FUCKING LONG. Also, "you think anyone who disagrees with you is xyz" is a rhetorical framework designed to divide up the discussion about this into warring sides. So, yeah, please let's not do that.
    Bull fucking shit. I'm bluer then The Blue Man Group covering the fucking Blue Da ba De song, and I did not ONCE say that I was defending a rapist, but dude, this is the fucking real world, shit like this DOES happen. People HAVE lied about this before, just because it's rare doesn't mean it can't happen. I keep an open mind because this is all still fresh and fairly new. Equal rights doesn't just disappear when a woman accuses someone of rape, that is not how it works.

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    can we just split this discussion off the manson thread before it gets locked for the 4th time?

    also add a trigger warning to this thread cuz people are going to get heated about this

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    Sorry sorry, im done, carry on

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    I have always loved and respected Jeordie. I don't know enough about this story to comment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dryalex12 View Post
    Sorry sorry, im done, carry on
    I'm with you on this. I can no longer discuss this. Especially in light of this: http://www.indiewire.com/2017/10/rom...on-1201889717/

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    Quote Originally Posted by thevoid99 View Post
    I'm with you on this. I can no longer discuss this. Especially in light of this: http://www.indiewire.com/2017/10/rom...on-1201889717/
    This is a good read:

    http://dailysignal.com/2017/10/20/im...e-too-hashtag/

    I’m referring to those who, without an ounce of empathy, callously dismiss stories shared under the #MeToo hashtag. The ones whose arguments can be fairly characterized as: “If you were really assaulted, you would have gone to the police. You would drop names and raise hell until you got justice. But you either weren’t victimized or you are complicit in all the other assaults that came after you. Most of these women posting ‘me, too’ are exaggerating for attention or because they want to demonize men. There is no rape epidemic, and women sometimes lie, so most of these women are lying, too.”

    Stop.

    No, really. Just stop.

    Yes, there is a difference between sexual assault and sexual harassment (although both are unacceptable) and sometimes the #MeToo hashtag has blurred that distinction. But that shouldn’t overshadow the larger picture of how many women are still affected by these issues.

    And yes, it is difficult to bring the hammer of justice down on perpetrators when victims do not feel comfortable coming forward with names. (And I would urge women if they can to report incidents of sexual assault.) But a cold-hearted presumption of culpability or exaggeration only makes it harder for them to break their silence.

    When someone confides in you that they were roofied, assaulted, molested, raped, or harassed, they have rendered themselves the most vulnerable they will likely ever be to you. Do not presume to sit in judgment of a person’s reaction to a horror you can never understand until you have lived it.

    And no, I promise you, you do not understand. I did not understand, either.

    [...]

    You don’t understand the sickening internal debate over whether and how and when and to what extent you should tell your parents. You don’t understand the utter humiliation of being unable to recall any interactions you’ve had in the past 12 hours. You don’t know how incredibly small you feel when your first real memory is of a doctor you’ve never seen before accusing you of smoking crystal meth because your ADD medication showed up as amphetamine on a toxicology screen, and you can barely find words to ask where you are, much less to explain you’ve never done drugs.

    And the flood of questions. You cannot comprehend the flood of questions. What if the detective thinks I was just drunk? What if I WAS just drunk? What if the urine analysis can’t detect any substances because the four IVs and 13 hours of delay diluted the sample? Will anyone believe me then, if there’s no proof? What if there are pictures or video I don’t remember? Do I even want to see any evidence that could point to a suspect? Would I rather just never know if it protects me from knowing something awful? How I am going to pay these medical bills? Why can’t I move my wrist? Where is my wallet? Has anyone fed my cats? Was I raped? What if I’m pregnant? How I am going to get home?

    You. Don’t. Understand.

    You can’t.

    Last edited by allegro; 10-21-2017 at 08:17 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SM Rollinger View Post
    can we just split this discussion off the manson thread before it gets locked for the 4th time?

    also add a trigger warning to this thread cuz people are going to get heated about this
    Haha we did. You’re in that thread now lol

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    The "false allegations" stance is just so bizarre to me. I understand that cognitively, it is easier to accept that someone is lying over someone who people admire(d) is a piece of shit. However, the FBI estimates that the false reports of rape are statistically on par with false reports of all other violent crimes. So I think a good exercise for people who automatically jump to "false allegations" would be to examine why that is their initial reaction. Is this how they react when any other crime is reported? Why or why not? What is the difference?

    And we all know that the criminal justice system in the US is an absurd joke. These types of crimes are basically the only ones where the victims are put on trial and torn apart. For MOST, having to risk re-traumatizing themselves is a an emotional burden that they are not willing to take on, which is completely understandable. And that doesn't even touch on the possible financial burdens.

    It would be more shocking to hear tales of a woman never being harassed or assaulted in any way, because that just simply does not happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarah K View Post
    The "false allegations" stance is just so bizarre to me. I understand that cognitively, it is easier to accept that someone is lying over someone who people admire(d) is a piece of shit. However, the FBI estimates that the false reports of rape are statistically on par with false reports of all other violent crimes. So I think a good exercise for people who automatically jump to "false allegations" would be to examine why that is their initial reaction. Is this how they react when any other crime is reported? Why or why not? What is the difference?
    Withholding judgement =/ accepting that Twiggy's innocent. The only people here jumping to conclusions are the ones saying a woman is always right. No one here has made the claim that this is definitively a false allegation. You're arguing against a stance that no one has taken
    Last edited by Airbornefeline; 10-21-2017 at 08:57 PM. Reason: mispelled twigie

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    Bizarre indeed! It's bizarre to downplay false allegations by using a small handful of studies that only account for REPORTED false allegations, while at the same time arguing that so many assaults go unreported. Not to mention the OMG WHY WOULD ANYONE LIE ABOUT THIS!! reaction. News flash, being a shitty person is gender neutral!

    Also, I didn't see a single person accusing/accepting that Jessicka was lying. Unless you have a narrative to push, you shouldn't be picking either side based on an allegation with zero evidence.

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    I just mean in general when it comes to this topic. Not this case specifically.

    I don't think the FBI falls under "a small handful of studies".

    Until given a reason not to, I stand with and support the victims of sexual assault. It is an uncomfortable truth in our culture, and we have to be willing to have conversations that confront that. Ignoring it and hoping it goes away hasn't worked, so I think trying a new approach is worth exploring.

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    Ok i know i said i was done but i have one more thing i wanna say. I am not calling her a liar. I am not defending him. I truly believe her story.....but that's all its been so far....her story. I am not ignoring this, i read everything she wrote. I think its horrible from what i read really is true. All im saying is that it being a lie COULD happen it's NOT what it is right now. Ive been accused of sexually harassing a minor that was proven to be false and it really fucked with me....all because i told him what a fetish was....also had no idea how old he was either, it was a damn free mmorpg.

    Long story short, im not choosing any side but i do believe her story

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    Are you trying to say that in general, the accuser is always seen as a liar and the accused is seen as innocent? If so, what reality are you living in? Seems like every time something like this happens, reactionary idiots balance each other out pretty equally.

    You say you're standing with and supporting victims of sexual assault, but that's not what you're doing here. You're assuming she's a victim and automatically taking her side. That attitude, and the demonization of anyone not agreeing with it, is what we have a problem with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfkiller View Post
    Are you trying to say that in general, the accuser is always seen as a liar and the accused is seen as innocent? If so, what reality are you living in? Seems like every time something like this happens, reactionary idiots balance each other out pretty equally.

    You say you're standing with and supporting victims of sexual assault, but that's not what you're doing here. You're assuming she's a victim and automatically taking her side. That attitude, and the demonization of anyone not agreeing with it, is what we have a problem with.
    I didn't say that at all

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dryalex12 View Post
    I didn't say that at all
    Responding to Karah S, not you. Sorry for the confusion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfkiller View Post
    You say you're standing with and supporting victims of sexual assault, but that's not what you're doing here. You're assuming she's a victim and automatically taking her side. That attitude, and the demonization of anyone not agreeing with it, is what we have a problem with.
    This, thank you.

    Certain people on here act like others are accepting of a culture where rape/assault is acceptable. Couldn’t be farther from the truth.

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    A good number of assaults go unreported because of fear of being believed. Saying it could be a lie is problematic because you are still questioning whether she deserves to be believed, whether you mean to or not. No one has to take sides but you should believe her.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by sweeterthan View Post
    A good number of assaults go unreported because of fear of being believed. Saying it could be a lie is problematic because you are still questioning whether she deserves to be believed, whether you mean to or not. No one has to take sides but you should believe her.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I was trying to say this from the start but i guess i failed epically...but i still stand by my innocent until proven guilty stance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sweeterthan View Post
    A good number of assaults go unreported because of fear of being believed. Saying it could be a lie is problematic because you are still questioning whether she deserves to be believed, whether you mean to or not. No one has to take sides but you should believe her.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    ”No one has to take sides but you should believe her.”

    ??

    I should hear and listen, like anyone’s side of a story.

    I don’t automatically believe a side of a story (take a side) before I have had the chance to hear at least one more side of a story, especially here, where I know neither party involved personally.

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