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Thread: Twiggys abuse/rape allegations

  1. #31
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    Ok...

    I don't know enough about this particular story, and I'm honestly not personally invested enough to really delve into the details...
    But some people seem to be missing an important part here in the "who do we believe" aspect of this story. The problem is that women have traditionally been doubted, and that the vast majority of the time that is a contributing factor to why women don't even come forward or report sexual assault. The idea that their story would be shrugged off and dismissed is, I imagine, a terrifying insult to injury.

    So sure, it's possible the allegations are false, but introducing that possibility into a scenario where the cards are already stacked towards that conclusion is just unhelpful. Yes, it happens with celebrities. There was that case where a woman accused Bright Eyes of rape, and he counter-sued for defamation. That's exactly what I'd do if I was falsely accused of something like this, and I don't give a shit about the music Bright Eyes makes, but his decision to fight back conclusively made me immediately believe he was probably innocent.

    So until Twiggy takes some kind of action like that, I'm inclined to at least listen to the accusations of the accuser and take her at her word.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dryalex12 View Post
    I was trying to say this from the start but i guess i failed epically...but i still stand by my innocent until proven guilty stance.
    And of course it’s impossible to prove that he’s guilty. Hence why she didn’t say anything for so many years. The only reason she’s saying something now isn’t necessarily to vilify White, as that is actually what she fears most (the wrath of his fan army).

    The #metoo movement is helping victims in being in this together and to educate people that you can be sexually assaulted even while in a relationship. She (like most victims of sexual or emotional assault or abuse or harassment) knows that many won’t believe her or will side with him; that’s why most victims don’t tell anyone; victims (and perpetrators) know there’s rarely any evidence and that most people will disbelieve the victim.

    So, whether or not you believe her doesn’t matter. Nothing will happen. There will be no legal trial, except the court of public opinion.

    Meanwhile, many of us know she was very brave to finally tell. She told so she can stop hiding a secret. She can now try to begin healing. That’s all that matters. It DOESN’T MATTER if we on ETS believe her or not.
    Last edited by allegro; 10-21-2017 at 11:44 PM.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dryalex12 View Post
    @allegro Wasn't aware of that. My only knowledge of Twiggy is he plays bass and he is very strange. that's about it.
    Word was rampant back then that he was giving out STDs, was a running joke around here.

    http://www.theninhotline.net/meatpers/html/mp050407.htm

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lB7WWGel_7k
    Last edited by allegro; 10-21-2017 at 10:55 PM.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    And of course it’s impossible to prove that he’s guilty. Hence why she didn’t say anything for so many years. The only reason she’s saying something now isn’t necessarily to vilify White, as that is actually what she fears most (the wrath of his fan army).

    The #metoo movement is helping victims in being in this together and to educate people that you can be sexually assaulted even while in a relationship. She (like most victims of sexual or emotional assault or abuse or harassment) knows that many won’t believe her or will side with him; that’s why most victims don’t tell anyone; victims (and perpetrators) know there’s rarely any evidence and that most people will disbelieve the victim.

    So, whether or not you believe her doesn’t matter. Nothing will happen. There will be no legal trial, except the court of public opinion.

    Meanwhile, many of us know she was very brave to finally tell. She told so she can stop hiding a secret. She can now try to begin healing. That’s all that matters. It DOESN’T MATTER if we on ETS believe her or not.
    Guess your right. I guess i was still in the mindset that it was going to get police attention and it was gonna go to court. I feel like all this forum crap was my fault since i kinda lit the fire. I still stand by my statements in regards to when it does land up in court.

    I guess i kinda was missing the point. The damn devil's advocate in me just kinda took over without really understanding the point of all of this.

    I honestly don't know how i feel about this, i feel strange listening to With Teeth and Year Zero now...

    I feel like crap and im sorry to everyone I pissed off

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dryalex12 View Post
    Guess your right. I guess i was still in the mindset that it was going to get police attention and it was gonna go to court. I feel like all this forum crap was my fault since i kinda lit the fire. I still stand by my statements in regards to when it does land up in court.
    Get police attention? For something that happened over 20 years ago? She doesn’t even indicate that she WANTS any court action, criminal or civil. If so, she’d have already filed a police report or a lawsuit; the chances of anything proceeding with either is a snowball’s chance in Hell. But, you go ahead and reserve judgment. She won’t care, our approval isn’t something she’s seeking; she’s seeking her own healing.

    I think the biggest problem people have with her story is how it’s making them feel about Jeordie and the revision of his myth in their history; and that’s not her problem. Anymore.
    Last edited by allegro; 10-22-2017 at 12:45 AM.

  6. #36
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    Don't think i didn't notice what you said to me before you edited it out, that really hurt and almost got me pissed off. That being said, no, for me, its not because my opinion of twiggy is in jeopardy, im like this to everyone, for me that is. I have no problem with thinking that Twiggy is fucking scum

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dryalex12 View Post
    Don't think i didn't notice what you said to me before you edited it out, that really hurt and almost got me pissed off. That being said, no, for me, its not because my opinion of twiggy is in jeopardy, im like this to everyone, for me that is. I have no problem with thinking that Twiggy is fucking scum
    Well, I meant what I edited out. Don’t care if it pisses you off, as you are some anonymous pern online in a band forum. It was true. I edited to not drift this thread.

    But you DID comment that you don’t know if you could listen to With Teeth again. Why? That’s a Nine Inch Nails album.

    Reading a woman’s story about physical, emotional and sexual abuse should wake us up to the realities of the record company convincing a very young woman that they’d wreck her career if she went to the police, that White’s fame would squash her and she’d lose everything. We should think about these scum record execs, the sexist industry, not “how can I listen to With Teeth?”
    Last edited by allegro; 10-22-2017 at 02:11 AM.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    Well, I meant what I edited out. Don’t care if it pisses you off, as you are some anonymous pern online in a band forum. But it was true. I edited to not drift this thread.

    But you DID comment that you don’t know if you could listen to With Teeth again. Why? That’s a Nine Inch Nails album.
    Twiggy joined the live band that era

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dryalex12 View Post
    Twiggy joined the live band that era
    Twiggy has as much to do with the songs on With Teeth as you...thats a Trent Reznor album..Dont throw Trent into the fire because Twiggy might be a scumfuck...NOW if you wanna burn your Manson records that Twiggy wrote and played on, thats a dif story

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helpmeiaminhell View Post
    Twiggy has as much to do with the songs on With Teeth as you...thats a Trent Reznor album..Dont throw Trent into the fire because Twiggy might be a scumfuck...NOW if you wanna burn your Manson records that Twiggy wrote and played on, thats a dif story
    When the fuck did i say that? All i said was it made things a little awkward. Twiggy just happens to be on the list of people i only like as a musician but not as a person. Im not burning anything

  11. #41
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    I saw about 12 live shows during the With Teeth tour and even stood next to Jerome and Jeordie for about 2 minutes at Exit in Chicago when they suddenly appeared then split.

    I was with a shitload of people here on ETS watching the web cam when With Teeth was recorded.

    And none of it came to my mind at all when this woman’s FB story was circulated. She implied that Reznor was nice to her. It’s not apparent that Reznor had any idea about White’s abusing women.

    Again, we are shifting this woman’s story to ourselves. It’s such a social media thing to do.

    We are missing the larger point of her story.


    In 1997, I was warned by my band’s record company that if I revealed my story publically, there would be a very good chance that my band Jack Off Jill would be black balled by concert promoters, radio programmers, and other bands and their managers. Jack Off Jill was also warned of running the risk of losing our coveted record deal (which they gave us!!,) as they were certain no one would ever take a rape victim in this male dominated music business seriously, nevermind a ferocious, disenfranchised, outspoken overweight front woman such as myself! The label blatantly feared the big machine behind Marilyn Manson would use their power to destroy not only Jack Off Jill, but my name, Jessicka, as well. The pressure and guilt of the inevitable repercussions of my rape story affecting my band’s livelihood, happiness and success kept me silent for years.

    After much needed therapy, and long mindful and emotional discussions with my closest friends and family who kept my secret “safe” for me all these years, I have finally made the right decision. To tell MY STORY.

    It's never easy to tell the truth when you know how much backlash you'll receive.

    But feeling guilt and shame about now knowing I am not my rapist’s only survivor has been an even worse albatross to bear.
    Last edited by allegro; 10-22-2017 at 01:28 AM.

  12. #42
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    And btw Allergo, don't fucking bring up my family and tell me to "remember what i said when it happens to them". That was too fucking far for not agreeing with my opinion.

    Im done and im going to bed now

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dryalex12 View Post
    And btw Allergo, don't fucking bring up my family and tell me to "remember what i said when it happens to them". That was too fucking far for not agreeing with my opinion.
    I said IF it happens to them. If it did, I sincerely doubt you’d be waiting to see what a jury says, that’s the point; because it’s someone you love, not some chick in a band accusing a favorite bass player, neither of whom you know personally at all. When or if things happen to friends or family, we get fiercely defensive (as you have so deftly demonstrated), not doubtful.

    I don’t even know what your “opinion” is, all I see is defensive language regarding someone you do not know; this type of attitude is known as transference.

    I don’t disagree or agree; I’m just correcting the erroneous legal info inferred in this discussion, and stating that the mere fact that we don’t KNOW any of these parties (they are not acquaintances, let alone family or loved ones) disqualifies us from any involvement.


    People are way too emotional in this thread. It makes no sense. THIS IS A MESSAGE BOARD FILLED WITH ANONYMOUS NOBODIES.
    Last edited by allegro; 10-22-2017 at 02:09 AM.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    I said IF it happens to them. If it did, I sincerely doubt you’d be waiting to see what a jury says, that’s the point; because it’s someone you love, not some chick in a band accusing a favorite bass player, neither of whom you know personally at all. When or if things happen to friends or family, we get fiercely defensive (as you have so deftly demonstrated), not doubtful.

    I don’t even know what your “opinion” is, all I see is defensive language regarding someone you do not know; this type of attitude is known as transference.
    Was going to bed.

    And Thats still a fucking low blow, and two, he isn't my favorite bass player. I said it before, im like this to everyone.

    Now if this did happen to my family, I wouldn't just .....you know what, this is off topic and not even worth it anymore...i said what ive said.

    Now im going to bed

  15. #45
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    Whatever.

  16. #46
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    10/10 would read again.

  17. #47
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    So, I was right?

    Quote Originally Posted by october_midnight View Post
    Just like anything else the past year or so, the people who do awful things know that just by the news of it coming out, there's still a chance that both sides will undoubtedly start arguing endlessly...and that hopefully it'll just fade away. See: pretty much anything else in 2017.

  18. #48
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    What a fucking mess, all this fucking arguing and bitching and most of us completely missed what was important. Her.

    She is a brave women to suddenly just out of the blue tell us about their abusive relationship. And what did i do? I spent the last day and a half trying to prove that "it might not be real".

    I guess that's what i get when i care too much but i do deserve all those back arguments against me (except for you allergo, that was still too far).

    Im still gonna listen to the manson and nin stuff that has twiggy on them....but that's all i want to be associated with twiggy....just the music.

    Im sorry again for my bickering

  19. #49
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    Take it for what its worth since he hates Manson and his band, but Pogo is on fb basically saying its the truth and how he was friends with the girl and its about time she came forward and how he knows all about Twiggy etc....Looking back at the 2005-2007 live era of NIN, Between Twiggy and North, Trent really had a freak show of a band during that era

  20. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dryalex12 View Post
    What a fucking mess, all this fucking arguing and bitching and most of us completely missed what was important. Her.

    She is a brave women to suddenly just out of the blue tell us about their abusive relationship. And what did i do? I spent the last day and a half trying to prove that "it might not be real"
    that's why so many of us have been so upset about this. it's about her and what she went through, and all the people saying "well, why should we believe her?" just add to the culture that perpetuates the kind of behavior where men think they can get away with anything, and women are terrified to come forward when they're assaulted for fear of not being believed.

    you know what's worse than being falsely accused of rape? being raped. and what's worse than being raped? having no one believe you when you reach out for help. trust me, i know firsthand.

  21. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helpmeiaminhell View Post
    Looking back at the 2005-2007 live era of NIN, Between Twiggy and North, Trent really had a freak show of a band during that era
    Aaron North was an incredible performer who had personal demons and was imploding on himself. Jeordie White was going about his usual behaviour of being an uncharismatic wanker.

  22. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dryalex12 View Post
    What a fucking mess, all this fucking arguing and bitching and most of us completely missed what was important. Her.

    She is a brave women to suddenly just out of the blue tell us about their abusive relationship. And what did i do? I spent the last day and a half trying to prove that "it might not be real".
    And reactions like this are why we have these discussions, no matter how tiring and draining they are... To get people to see the bigger picture is always worth that emotional labor, in my opinion. Growth is awesome.

  23. #53
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    I feel disgusted with myself...im better than this.

    Screw you twiggy and not in the kinky way either

  24. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helpmeiaminhell View Post
    Take it for what its worth since he hates Manson and his band, but Pogo is on fb basically saying its the truth and how he was friends with the girl and its about time she came forward and how he knows all about Twiggy etc....Looking back at the 2005-2007 live era of NIN, Between Twiggy and North, Trent really had a freak show of a band during that era
    I see that you've been dragged for this already, but I wanted to point out that a person with mental health issues is NOT the same as someone who rapes someone and hands out STIs like candy.

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    No one has said being falsely accused of rape is as bad as being raped, but both can absolutely ruin lives. How would any of you feel if you were falsely accused but because of some weird societal rule some people live by (Women accusers should be automatically believed) you would be thrown in prison, ostracized by your friends and family, in general your life could be totally ruined. It's really not worth considering that possibility just because it's statistically insignificant and not as bad as being raped? Even if literally only 2% of accusations are false, that's still a bunch of people who had their lives at least partially ruined because public opinion deemed their accuser to be telling the 100% truth and the accused's opinions not worth listening to. Alleged victims should be listened to and encouraged to speak out as soon as possible so that any possible evidence can be gathered and some kind of an objective verdict can be reached, but to take automatically take their word as 100% truth and ruin the accused's life solely based on that is incredibly dangerous.


    anticipating facepalms from my usual buddies for not towing the line. this NIN forum is serious business

  26. #56
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    lollllllll @ "getting thrown in prison". I don't know where you live, but in the United States, it is rare for people who rape people to see any prison time, let alone the make believe world where false accusations are running rampant and resulting in a criminal conviction. Lol.

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    I never claimed false accusations are rampant, literally said the opposite. Things that are rare don't matter and shouldn't be considered?
    Lol.

  28. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Airbornefeline View Post
    No one has said being falsely accused of rape is as bad as being raped, but both can absolutely ruin lives. How would any of you feel if you were falsely accused but because of some weird societal rule some people live by (Women accusers should be automatically believed) you would be thrown in prison, ostracized by your friends and family, in general your life could be totally ruined. It's really not worth considering that possibility just because it's statistically insignificant and not as bad as being raped? Even if literally only 2% of accusations are false, that's still a bunch of people who had their lives at least partially ruined because public opinion deemed their accuser to be telling the 100% truth and the accused's opinions not worth listening to. Alleged victims should be listened to and encouraged to speak out as soon as possible so that any possible evidence can be gathered and some kind of an objective verdict can be reached, but to take automatically take their word as 100% truth and ruin the accused's life solely based on that is incredibly dangerous.


    anticipating facepalms from my usual buddies for not towing the line. this NIN forum is serious business
    This sounds perfectly reasonable until you remember that powerful men already have a leg up in this situation. Woody Allen, Roman Polanski, Lars von Trier and Harvey Weinstein have been able to still make movies and be critically lauded for them YEARS after people started whispering about sexual abuse and allegations were made. Bill Cosby still enjoys a healthy fanbase that supports him. Julian Assange is still relevant and has a healthy following. Jameis Winston still has a long NFL playing career ahead of him after sexual assault accusations were made against him in college. Ben Roethlisberger has a revered career behind him and is regarded as an elite QB in the league... even though he has multiple sexual assault accusations against him for 2009 and 2010. Ezekiel Elliot keeps playing even though the NFL is trying to uphold a suspension because of sexual assault accusations that the police decided not to follow up on.

    And best of all - a person I know who I considered a friend actually raped someone staying at his house and was convicted.

    He had to serve one year in prison. ONE.

    Maybe it's just men who have a leg up and power has nothing to do with it.

    So yeah, let's think of the people being accused and how hard they have it. Sure.

  29. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lt. Randazzo View Post

    He had to serve one year in prison. ONE.

    Maybe it's just men who have a leg up and power has nothing to do with it.

    So yeah, let's think of the people being accused and how hard they have it. Sure.
    Yes, those men you mentioned are pieces of shit who abused their power and essentially got away with it because the system generally fucking sucks. Would me posting a few links of men who actually got life in prison for rape negate those examples though? No, so you bringing those up doesn't negate the fact that there are men who had their lives ruined by being falsely accused of rape. Why not think of those people? I seriously can't understand this idea of "If it isn't prevalent, it doesn't matter and shouldn't be brought up"
    Last edited by Airbornefeline; 10-22-2017 at 01:33 PM.

  30. #60
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    Y'all seem to always forget that false rape accusations are a crime (with a rate that sits well below 10% no matter what statistic you pull, also remember the majority of people who are raped do not even *go* to the police so think about just how small that number is) that when provable is pursued and leads to conviction in some cases.

    Y'all are doing the equivalent of visiting a town that has burned to ashes and acting like now is the time to talk about the two people that drowned in the next town over. "Oh hey I know this particular case seems highly probable given the enormous amount of bad reports that exist about this fuckass, specifically this one that is especially verifiable and damning." but rape accusations RUIN LIVES so I'm just gonna be REAL FOCUSED ON THAT because I'm HELPING
    Last edited by playwithfire; 10-22-2017 at 01:44 PM. Reason: waaaah waaaaaaaah

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