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Thread: Harvey Weinstein

  1. #31
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    Harvey Weinstein

    I just tried to read Mayim bialik's op ed and I can barely see straight. What's wrong with her? What is the point of her piece? I don't get it at all.

    https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/10/1...m.facebook.com


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    Quote Originally Posted by thenorthwood View Post
    Absolutely. Sexual assault and harassment can also be sneaky and escalate over time and not as blatant as Weinstein’s actions. I can think of two instances in my late teens and early 20’s, one at work where my manager became increasingly inappropriate and suggestive in comments and behavior. Another instance involved a massage that went way too far from my friend’s boyfriend’s father while my friend was in the same room! Sometimes as it happens you are just frozen in place from shock. It was mostly in retrospect that I realized how fucked up these situations became.

    Why these women didn’t speak up sooner is irrelevant to Weinstein’s abhorrent actions, and I am also suprised at the number of people/women that are asking that question.
    Why so surprised at people asking that question?

    It's not a matter of how relevant it is to this scumbag's actions, but to someone who hasn't been in that situation it doesn't make sense.

    What I don't get is why are we all expected to react in the same way and show nothing but 100% sympathy, without being allowed to wonder and ask questions, not even with the purpose of putting the victims word in doubt, but just because some people don't get it.

    Myself, yeah, I don't get why they didn't speak out sooner. I get the fear factor (he's powerful in the industry, not being able to get a job after this, etc). I do understand that right in the moment it is a different story, but at some point one must ponder what is more important. Besides, it was those long years of silence that made it possible for him to continue doing the same shit to who knows how many more people. Silence is an accomplice.

    And no, this doesn't mean I blame the victims, and it doesn't mean that the guy's actions were not as bad. This is just horrible, and I really hope that if anything comes out of this, is that victims of any kind of abuse find the courage to speak out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sweeterthan View Post
    I just tried to read Mayim bialik's op ed and I can barely see straight. What's wrong with her? What is the point of her piece? I don't get it at all.

    https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/10/1...m.facebook.com


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    The point is making this about herself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sweeterthan View Post
    I just tried to read Mayim bialik's op ed and I can barely see straight. What's wrong with her? What is the point of her piece? I don't get it at all.

    https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/10/1...m.facebook.com
    She’s saying that Harvey Weinstein is an exhibited symptom, not the disease. The disease is our entire culture; Hollywood feeds the culture what it wants; Hollywood doesn’t drive or create the culture; Hollywood has been a giant mirror of our culture, a magnification of our worst aspects; a guy like Weinstein isn't preying on the ugly girls; there is no shortage of pretty girls in Hollywood (what "America wants") but it's not a real world; Hollywood itself is promoting and protecting predators in the interest of profit. Putting HW in charge in Hollywood is like a pedo in charge at a Catholic grade school.

    See also this prior post: http://www.echoingthesound.org/commu...953#post380953

    Bialik says:
    I believe that we can change our culture, but it won’t be something that happens overnight. We live in a society that has treated women as disposable playmates for far longer than Mr. Weinstein has been meeting ingénues in luxury hotel rooms.

    One major bright spot: We are seeing more women taking on prominent roles behind the camera. Women like Jenji Kohan and Jill Soloway are showing the kinds of female characters on their shows that we all know in real life but never got to see on TV. And more women and men are waking up to the fact that it is on us all to sound the alarm on unacceptable behavior.
    Trump said "when you're a star, you can do whatever you want and they let you."

    Due to FEAR of power and money. Not always due to reverence.
    Last edited by allegro; 10-15-2017 at 11:44 AM.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by tremolo View Post
    Why so surprised at people asking that question?

    It's not a matter of how relevant it is to this scumbag's actions, but to someone who hasn't been in that situation it doesn't make sense.

    What I don't get is why are we all expected to react in the same way and show nothing but 100% sympathy, without being allowed to wonder and ask questions, not even with the purpose of putting the victims word in doubt, but just because some people don't get it.

    Myself, yeah, I don't get why they didn't speak out sooner. I get the fear factor (he's powerful in the industry, not being able to get a job after this, etc). I do understand that right in the moment it is a different story, but at some point one must ponder what is more important. Besides, it was those long years of silence that made it possible for him to continue doing the same shit to who knows how many more people. Silence is an accomplice.

    And no, this doesn't mean I blame the victims, and it doesn't mean that the guy's actions were not as bad. This is just horrible, and I really hope that if anything comes out of this, is that victims of any kind of abuse find the courage to speak out.
    It takes a LOT of courage to do something about sexual (and emotional) abuse, harassment or assault. And reporting it doesn’t necessarily lead to a solution (other than knowing you’ve done the right thing); you have to be “strong” for a really extended time, through accusations and embarrassment and blaming and re-living the experience.

    It took me YEARS to finally do something (in my case, gathering my evidence and walking through the door of the police department and asking to speak to a detective). When my family found out what I’d been secretly enduring, they were shocked. But, sometimes it requires logistics, planning, escape routes, Plan Bs, all kinds of strength-gathering, a team of legal advocates and emotional support.

    Lots of the HW victims DID do something; it fell on deaf ears. Nobody helped. People were too afraid to stick their own necks out. Power is in numbers.

    I agree that it’s okay to ask, because it helps to tell why because it explains the difficulty and maybe even helps others to plan a strategy.

    But the narrative needs to be changed: From “Why didn’t you tell?” to “Why does this HAPPEN and then why does it CONTINUE to happen?” The CULTURE needs to change.

    Right now, the victims are expected to “do the right thing” and immediately quit and report the offender, etc. But if you are a single mother with young children at home and you need that factory job and the boss is demanding blow jobs or he’ll get you fired and swears he’ll give you terrible references, and he’s handing you extra money to feed your kids ... this is all FAR more common than people realize. I’ve KNOWN women who endured this. So, we (as a society) say: “Why didn’t SHE stop him or just quit?”

    But that puts all the hardship on her and her kids, and zero on him.

    The better question is: Why can’t we have a society where that is UNHEARD OF? Or where that woman can get help and that guy gets fired and has no power to do that?

    You all should know right now: HUMAN RESOURCES DOES NOT WORK FOR YOU. IT WORKS FOR THE COMPANY.

    I have a female friend who had a boss who was RELENTLESSLY abusing her, not sexually but emotionally, calling her too old, telling her he wished she’d get HIT BY A CAR, all kinds of awful shit. HR did nothing, they TOLD THE GUY what she’d reported. They refused to remedy the situation. Her only recourse would be to quit. Who wins and who loses, then? In this job market?

    I used to work in an office full of sole-practitioner attorneys and one of these guys was OBVIOUSLY accepting blow jobs as payment in lieu of legal fees from a woman going through a divorce who had two really little kids at home. The dinosaur guys in the office laughed it off as the woman wanting a sugar daddy attorney guy. We women knew otherwise, that this attorney was using his power, he had something she needed (a divorce attorney) and he was using that to get oral sex because he knew she didn't have enough money. This isn't some kind of rare animal near extinction. These are the guys who openly joked about how, in the "good old days," they'd provide booze and hookers to insurance adjusters at swank downtown hotel rooms. Women are currency used to get something else.
    Last edited by allegro; 10-15-2017 at 12:27 PM.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    It takes a LOT of courage to do something about sexual (and emotional) abuse, harassment or assault. And reporting it doesn’t necessarily lead to a solution (other than knowing you’ve done the right thing); you have to be “strong” for a really extended time, through accusations and embarrassment and blaming and re-living the experience.

    It took me YEARS to finally do something (in my case, gathering my evidence and walking through the door of the police department and asking to speak to a detective). When my family found out what I’d been secretly enduring, they were shocked. But, sometimes it requires logistics, planning, escape routes, Plan Bs, all kinds of strength-gathering, a team of legal advocates and emotional support.

    Lots of the HW victims DID do something; it fell on deaf ears. Nobody helped. People were too afraid to stick their own necks out. Power is in numbers.

    I agree that it’s okay to ask, because it helps to tell why because it explains the difficulty and maybe even helps others to plan a strategy.

    But the narrative needs to be changed: From “Why didn’t you tell?” to “Why does this HAPPEN and then why does it CONTINUE to happen?” The CULTURE needs to change.

    Right now, the victims are expected to “do the right thing” and immediately quit and report the offender, etc. But if you are a single mother with young children at home and you need that factory job and the boss is demanding blow jobs or he’ll get you fired and swears he’ll give you terrible references, and he’s handing you extra money to feed your kids ... this is all FAR more common than people realize. I’ve KNOWN women who endured this. So, we (as a society) say: “Why didn’t SHE stop him or just quit?”

    But that puts all the hardship on her and her kids, and zero on him.

    The better question is: Why can’t we have a society where that is UNHEARD OF? Or where that woman can get help and that guy gets fired and has no power to do that?

    You all should know right now: HUMAN RESOURCES DOES NOT WORK FOR YOU. IT WORKS FOR THE COMPANY.

    I have a female friend who had a boss who was RELENTLESSLY abusing her, not sexually but emotionally, calling her too old, telling her he wished she’d get HIT BY A CAR, all kinds of awful shit. HR did nothing, they TOLD THE GUY what she’d reported. They refused to remedy the situation. Her only recourse would be to quit. Who wins and who loses, then? In this job market?

    I used to work in an office full of sole-practitioner attorneys and one of these guys was OBVIOUSLY accepting blow jobs as payment in lieu of legal fees from a woman going through a divorce who had two really little kids at home. The dinosaur guys in the office laughed it off as the woman wanting a sugar daddy attorney guy. We women knew otherwise, that this attorney was using his power, he had something she needed (a divorce attorney) and he was using that to get oral sex because he knew she didn't have enough money. This isn't some kind of rare animal near extinction. These are the guys who openly joked about how, in the "good old days," they'd provide booze and hookers to insurance adjusters at swank downtown hotel rooms. Women are currency used to get something else.
    I understand your point, but I completely disagree with the logic of your examples.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tremolo View Post
    I understand your point, but I completely disagree with the logic of your examples.
    This isn’t about convincing anyone or agreeing or disagreeing. It’s about fixing the problem. Blaming the victims for the problem isn’t a solution.

    The linked article proposes fixing the problem, which is linked back to our culture of accepting this as something that is only perpetuated due to the victims not fixing it.

    There are few legal resources to protect people unless something illegal happens; sexual assault is a crime but most go unreported due to fear that the system will side with the perpetrator. Sexual harassment requires civil legal action, and that’s even worse “my word vs. theirs.” One of the HW victims IMMEDIATELY went to the NYPD; the cops put a wire on her and HW is recorded admitting that he did what she said he did. But Vance did nothing.

    I was sexually harassed at work when I was 18, and I immediately quit. But I was privileged at the time, my father owned a company and I went to work for him; my career went unscathed; I didn’t have to support a family; I had people to pay my bills if needed; but that doesn’t mean I judge people who didn’t handle it the way I did because they weren’t in my situation; changing focus to why the victim didn’t act a certain way takes the focus away from who did it and why it’s an epidemic.
    Last edited by allegro; 10-15-2017 at 03:29 PM.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    This isn’t about convincing anyone or agreeing or disagreeing. It’s about fixing the problem. Blaming the victims for the problem isn’t a solution.
    Nobody is blaming the victims. At least I am not.

    I'm not trying to fix the problem either, it is way beyond my powers to do so. All we are doing here is sharing opinions and points of views.

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    just more proof that the "casting couch" still exists. we'd like to think that we've matured as a nation. with sexism, racism. but we really haven't. the republican's and the Taliban are a lot closer than they each think. you look at the last week with birth control abortion. careful or you'll be asking you brother for a ride to the bank to use his account to cash your check. to buy the latest fashionable burka. When the president can't be caught on tape, spouting the shit he did and fox news, this is condoning this behavior. this whole "i grew up in a different generation". we did a lot of stupid shit in the past. you recognize the errors of your ways correct and move forward. you don't. pretend it never happened, shrug your shoulders and say "that's just the way it is". I don't consider myself an "sjw" but daily i feel pushed in that direction.
    and "don't take any guff from the swine"
    -Louie

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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    She’s saying that Harvey Weinstein is an exhibited symptom, not the disease. The disease is our entire culture; Hollywood feeds the culture what it wants; Hollywood doesn’t drive or create the culture; Hollywood has been a giant mirror of our culture, a magnification of our worst aspects; a guy like Weinstein isn't preying on the ugly girls; there is no shortage of pretty girls in Hollywood (what "America wants") but it's not a real world; Hollywood itself is promoting and protecting predators in the interest of profit. Putting HW in charge in Hollywood is like a pedo in charge at a Catholic grade school.

    See also this prior post: http://www.echoingthesound.org/commu...953#post380953

    Bialik says:


    Trump said "when you're a star, you can do whatever you want and they let you."
    Her opinion seems very victim blame-y. Saying she's never experienced harassment due to her looks and because she doesn't go to hotel meetings. To me, this is a terrible sentiment to portray. Going to a hotel party isn't an invitation to rape. These women should know better than to go to a hotel party and not expect to put out, right? HORRIBLE. the problem isn't just hollywood. It's everywhere. I know you know that. Bialik's opinions have previously offended me (she's anti vax) so i think i'm looking at it hyper critically but insinuating that her luck in not being harassed or assaulted has to do with her looks is problematic. It contributes to the "ugly" girls not being believed and taken seriously.

    Due to FEAR of power and money. Not always due to reverence.
    A family friend that i've known forever basically said these women were more motivated by money than integrity since they didn't warn everyone about Weinstien. Like really you don't understand who's motivated by money? It's not the rapist with the money? NO? This person is a male. I responded that the issue is more about teaching our sons about consent and respect. He responded that "we could also teach daughters to not chase money." I just don't think he understands that the victims have no power. NONE! Reporting doesn't solve the problem. Being monetarily compensated isn't "money chasing". It's how the system works for victims and perpetrators.

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    Victims DO have power. I think the problem is that they tend to convince themselves they don't. We all have the power to take control of our lives and make the necessary changes to make our lives better.

    Let's stop being afraid of change and accept that change in life very rarely happens as a smooth seamless transition. Most of the time it's rocky and difficult, but it is possible.

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    I agree. It’s a slow process but we need to do it. However, women can’t (and shouldn’t be expected to) do it alone; men have to speak out and put their own heads on the block to denounce this as unacceptable, too. The men need to add their voice. And boys need to be taught that this behavior is reprehensible.

    We all also need to note that the VAST MAJORITY of Weinstein victims did NOT seek or get money. And the ones who did get money most likely would have MUCH preferred that it never happened.

    And the press has known about this for years: https://www.pri.org/stories/2017-10-...pt-allegations
    Last edited by allegro; 10-15-2017 at 07:03 PM.

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    side note reading Whitney Cummings I'm fine...and other lies. I find her attractive intelligent, honest and funny and a lot better repressing womens issues then say Amy shummer, and she dorsn't steal her material.
    -Louie

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    @sweeterthan , I agree that Bialik’s piece does read like sour grapes, that she never got propositioned because she’s some quirky weirdo not generally appealing and it was so so hard for her to fit in, while those cute girls were busy fighting off rapey guys boo boo hoo, oh they think THEY had it hard but it coulda been worse, they coulda been some goofy chick like HER, completely ignored.

    Kinda like when that black football player (?) sat next to Lena Dunham and he didn’t make a pass at her or sexually harass her so she wrote a piece about him, reading his mind about how he must have been thinking she was a fat pig or disgusting ... the reality was that he was probably busy, but she put him the Pig category for NOT noticing her. So, yeah, there is (as @tremolo said) a lot of “me” in her thesis.
    Last edited by allegro; 10-15-2017 at 07:12 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Louie_Cypher View Post
    side note reading Whitney Cummings I'm fine...and other lies. I find her attractive intelligent, honest and funny and a lot better repressing womens issues then say Amy shummer, and she dorsn't steal her material.
    -Louie
    Okay now I HAVE to get this book ... thanks Lou!

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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    I agree. It’s a slow process but we need to do it. However, women can’t (and shouldn’t be expected to) do it alone; men have to speak out and put their own heads on the block to denounce this as unacceptable, too. The men need to add their voice. And boys need to be taught that this behavior is reprehensible.

    We all also need to note that the VAST MAJORITY of Weinstein victims did NOT seek or get money. And the ones who did get money most likely would have MUCH preferred that it never happened.

    And the press has known about this for years: https://www.pri.org/stories/2017-10-...pt-allegations
    Values are values, and they go beyond gender. It doesn't matter if our kids are boys or girls, they should have a clear understanding of boundaries, respect, appretiaton, sympathy, empathy, support, and love for each other and everyone around them.

    People should respect people, regardless of their gender.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tremolo View Post
    Values are values, and they go beyond gender. It doesn't matter if our kids are boys or girls, they should have a clear understanding of boundaries, respect, appretiaton, sympathy, empathy, support, and love for each other and everyone around them.

    People should respect people, regardless of their gender.
    Well yeah but it doesn't currently work like that, unfortunately. I think we'll get there but it might still be a few generations before there's a dent in amount of overall harassment. We have an admitted assailant in the white house right now. The president is the poster child of misogyny. It was part of his campaign schtick. So i still think we have a long way to go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sweeterthan View Post
    Well yeah but it doesn't currently work like that, unfortunately. I think we'll get there but it might still be a few generations before there's a dent in amount of overall harassment. We have an admitted assailant in the white house right now. The president is the poster child of misogyny. It was part of his campaign schtick. So i still think we have a long way to go.
    No doubt about that! But the fact he is a male is irrelevant. What matters is these people's disgusting and sick behaviour, which has nothing to do with their own gender and more to do with their sociopathic/psychopathic behaviour, how they treat others and their complete inability to deal with power.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tremolo View Post
    No doubt about that! But the fact he is a male is irrelevant. What matters is these people's disgusting and sick behaviour, which has nothing to do with their own gender and more to do with their sociopathic/psychopathic behaviour, how they treat others and their complete inability to deal with power.
    No, the fact that he is a male is extremely relevant. To say that it's not is like shouting "all lives matter" after another unarmed black guy gets murdered by a police officer (and if you don't understand what's wrong with, then I don't think I'm going to be able to get through to you).

    Men are the overwhelming majority of perpetrators of sexual assault / harassment / rape. Can guys be victims of it? Sure. But I'm smart enough to know that we are far and away the cause of the problem. It would be beyond tone deaf to ignore the sex of someone when discussing stuff like this.

    Let me be blunt: when it comes to sexual assault as a whole: men are the problem.

    The justice system itself needs work (it's flaws with the system that often discourage women from reporting things). But that wouldn't even be an issue if men would get it in their heads that women are not objects there to be used and manipulated. There needs to be a complete and drastic shift in our cultural values, specifically, with how men treat people. I can count on one hand the number of times I've heard a woman make a lewd comment about a guy she found attractive. I'd be well into the thousands if I was still keeping track of how many times a guy has made a lewd comment about a woman he found attractive. So I'll say it again for those in the back: when discussing an abuser, point out that he is male is extremely relevant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by theimage13 View Post
    No, the fact that he is a male is extremely relevant. To say that it's not is like shouting "all lives matter" after another unarmed black guy gets murdered by a police officer (and if you don't understand what's wrong with, then I don't think I'm going to be able to get through to you).

    Men are the overwhelming majority of perpetrators of sexual assault / harassment / rape. Can guys be victims of it? Sure. But I'm smart enough to know that we are far and away the cause of the problem. It would be beyond tone deaf to ignore the sex of someone when discussing stuff like this.

    Let me be blunt: when it comes to sexual assault as a whole: men are the problem.

    The justice system itself needs work (it's flaws with the system that often discourage women from reporting things). But that wouldn't even be an issue if men would get it in their heads that women are not objects there to be used and manipulated. There needs to be a complete and drastic shift in our cultural values, specifically, with how men treat people. I can count on one hand the number of times I've heard a woman make a lewd comment about a guy she found attractive. I'd be well into the thousands if I was still keeping track of how many times a guy has made a lewd comment about a woman he found attractive. So I'll say it again for those in the back: when discussing an abuser, point out that he is male is extremely relevant.
    It isn't relevant, because his actions are not defined by his gender, just as they are not defined by his race, religion, the colour of his skin or eyes, nationality, etc.

    I won't debate about the whole objectifying women and blaming men for everything bad that happens to them. Blaming men for this is taking the power away from women and putting them in the same position as children, and I believe that's awfully wrong.

    You make a lot of points that have absolutely no direct connection with this case. Lewd comments and all that stuff... I could make a similar case about money talk and gold-digging whores, but that would be considered awful, sexist, an infantile generalization, mysoginist, and what not. But apparently reverse sexism and stupid generalizations are fine and acceptable when the ones being trashed are men.

    All we have in common as men is the XY. Everything else is just generalizarions and bs made up to fit an agenda.

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    ^^^

    Can someone with the appropriate privileges please facepalm that on my behalf. "Sexual assault is a generalization and bullshit made up to fit an agenda"

    ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?!

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    Quote Originally Posted by tremolo View Post
    It isn't relevant, because his actions are not defined by his gender, just as they are not defined by his race, religion, the colour of his skin or eyes, nationality, etc.

    I won't debate about the whole objectifying women and blaming men for everything bad that happens to them. Blaming men for this is taking the power away from women and putting them in the same position as children, and I believe that's awfully wrong.

    You make a lot of points that have absolutely no direct connection with this case. Lewd comments and all that stuff... I could make a similar case about money talk and gold-digging whores, but that would be considered awful, sexist, an infantile generalization, mysoginist, and what not. But apparently reverse sexism and stupid generalizations are fine and acceptable when the ones being trashed are men.

    All we have in common as men is the XY. Everything else is just generalizarions and bs made up to fit an agenda.
    Are you mental?

    We live in a world where the system is set up to protect men who abuse more than it is to protect the women who are abused.

    And you want to have this discussion without bringing gender into it?? Tough shit, it's part of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eskimo View Post
    Are you mental?

    We live in a world where the system is set up to protect men who abuse more than it is to protect the women who are abused.

    And you want to have this discussion without bringing gender into it?? Tough shit, it's part of it.
    So, just because I don't agree with your view, I happen to have some kind of mental problem.

    Hurray for tolerance and respect!

    The system is set to protect abusers more than those who are abused.

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    Harvey Weinstein

    Quote Originally Posted by theimage13 View Post
    ^^^

    Can someone with the appropriate privileges please facepalm that on my behalf. "Sexual assault is a generalization and bullshit made up to fit an agenda"

    ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?!
    No, that's what you read into it. Don't misquote me.

    Sexual assault is not a generalization. I never said that.

    Really? Are you fucking kidding me?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tremolo View Post
    So, just because I don't agree with your view, I happen to have some kind of mental problem.

    Hurray for tolerance and respect!

    The system is set to protect abusers more than those who are abused.
    NO, THIS SITUATION IS PROOF THAT IT'S NOT.

    I don't have to tolerate or respect willful ignorance. Which is what you're demonstrating.

    Grow up, GENDER MATTERS WHEN DISCUSSING SEXUAL ASSAULT.

  28. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by eskimo View Post
    NO, THIS SITUATION IS PROOF THAT IT'S NOT.

    I don't have to tolerate or respect willful ignorance. Which is what you're demonstrating.

    Grow up, GENDER MATTERS WHEN DISCUSSING SEXUAL ASSAULT.
    So anyone who doesn't share your view is willfully ignorant. Great.

    Abuse is abuse, period. Gender doesn't matter when discussing sexual assault. The problem is in the action itself, not on the gender of the abuser/abused.

  29. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by tremolo View Post
    So anyone who doesn't share your view is willfully ignorant. Great.

    Abuse is abuse, period. Gender doesn't matter when discussing sexual assault. The problem is in the action itself, not on the gender of the abuser/abused.
    No, anyone who believes that gender is irrelevant when discussing systemic sexual assault is willfully ignorant.

    Grow up, get a clue, open your eyes. IT MATTERS.

    Removing gender from the discussion prevents discussion of gender roles, of societal expectations placed on men and women that allow predators like this to run rampant and afford them protections. It prevents discussion of power structures that have been benefiting men over women for DECADES.

    You don't get to shut down a discussion by being willfully ignorant. Take your crap elsewhere, get your head out of the fucking ground. This kind of attitude accomplishes nothing but shutting down discussions around what the actual problem is, which is POWERFUL MEN TAKING ADVANTAGE OF THE POWER THAT OUR WORLD ALLOWS THEM TO HAVE OVER WOMEN.

    GENDER MATTERS.

  30. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by eskimo View Post
    No, anyone who believes that gender is irrelevant when discussing systemic sexual assault is willfully ignorant.

    Grow up, get a clue, open your eyes. IT MATTERS.

    Removing gender from the discussion prevents discussion of gender roles, of societal expectations placed on men and women that allow predators like this to run rampant and afford them protections. It prevents discussion of power structures that have been benefiting men over women for DECADES.

    You don't get to shut down a discussion by being willfully ignorant. Take your crap elsewhere, get your head out of the fucking ground. This kind of attitude accomplishes nothing but shutting down discussions around what the actual problem is, which is POWERFUL MEN TAKING ADVANTAGE OF THE POWER THAT OUR WORLD ALLOWS THEM TO HAVE OVER WOMEN.

    GENDER MATTERS.
    Let me know when you can actually argue using arguments, or at least when you can admit that your views are just that and not THE absolute truth.

    Adding insults to your posts doesn't make your points stronger.

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