I have no illusions about the weight of some random dude's words on a message board as opposed to a trending Fader article, but holy shit. Slander. Absolute slander. And it makes me sad. I'm not even a huge fan of the guy, but I am/was actually familiar with his content, including thatistheplan, and holy shit, are they off or what. Jesus. It's worse than the James Rolfe/Ghostbusters thing from last year. Total shit show.
I have no illusions about the weight of some random dude's words on a message board as opposed to a trending Fader article, but holy shit. Slander. Absolute slander. And it makes me sad. I'm not even a huge fan of the guy, but I am/was actually familiar with his content, including thatistheplan, and holy shit, are they off or what. Jesus. It's worse than the James Rolfe/Ghostbusters thing from last year. Total shit show.
i'm confused...are you disputing the claims and saying he's NOT what he appears to be?
but all of the legitimate concerns the article addresses (and sources) clearly didn't just come from nowhere. what makes you say he's not actually the asshole he appears to be? i never liked his music reviews and this makes me glad, because he's clearly not a very good person.
This will either destroy his career.....or make him more popular than ever...Always thought he was a dick for shitting on the last few Mike Patton releases
This will either destroy his career.....or make him more popular than ever...Always thought he was a dick for shitting on the last few Mike Patton releases
Yeah, how dare he has a different opinion then yours
but all of the legitimate concerns the article addresses (and sources) clearly didn't just come from nowhere.
Right, this is strictly my personal take, and I'm not even near the wordsmith in English as the Fader author is, but: the suggestion of "genuine" racist humour, Fantano spreading hate speech or his videos being a conservative mouthpiece while he was playing the saint for his larger audience on his main channel is wrong. Thatistheplan is not him speaking his mind; at least for the year or so I was following it, it had been a comedy channel, an off-the-wall and bizarre one, yes, largely inspired by 4chan's shock culture, not something easily digestible for an audience that's unfamiliar with the style, and definitely not the wisest direction to follow post-2016 and the alt-right association that came with the site, but it was just that. A dumb shitposting channel, "done for the lulz" as they used to say it back in the day. He was putting on an act, making fun of imageboard and outrage culture, taboos, the media, his own larger than life e-celebrity and YouTube in general. I know how clichéd this sounds, but the problematic content in this case wasn't meant to be taken at face value, and definitely not in the way Fader wants to take it, seemingly.
The article is slick, operating with sentences like "He’s playing the specter of black suicide and death for laughs." and it's hard to prove otherwise with the majority of the videos gone, but things like that were not what his humour or jokes were centered around. The appearances of Pepe the Frog weren't meant to be funny for what the character stands for, the joke is that Pepe is edgy and taboo now, a symbol that causes outrage. Same for the chord-on-the-neck shtick, which is something he was performing forever, as much a part of his thatistheplan persona as his white vest and orange hat and sunglasses. The freedom ring line in the XXXT video is there to shock, not to preach against black rights. His Hopsin-bashing has started as a diss response to one of actual bona fide alt-righter
s. Anthony - obviously - does not agree with him. And these are also cherry-picked examples from the ocean of content he put up on that channel. 9 out of the 10 times you'd see something that makes fun of top 10 anime list-style videos or the (inoffensive) new meme of the week, without a hint of political stuff - this "alt-right pandering for bucks" accusation seems nonsensical. To me.
As for his main channel(s), it's extremely rare for me to agree with one of his reviews, but I really enjoy his thinkpiece vlogs and podcasts. He comes off as a well-meaning professional guy with a genuine passion for music who's well-informed in today's media and culture. That's the Fantano most people came to know and love. His real political opinions or views on ace is not something he often talks about, his main interest is obviously in hip-hop and he married a black woman, which makes the accusations even more unlikely, but I don't personally know him. Just judging by his overall content over the years, thatistheplan was a cheap side project played for laughs, not an ugly glimpse into a two-faced asshole's rotten soul.
Supposedly we can expect a video from him commenting on the case very soon. I'm curious. Wishing the best to him as of now, it's going to be tough.
Originally Posted by eversonpoe
he's clearly not a very good person.
You have the right to think that, same with every other person who's opinion will be influenced by Fader And by God, there will be plenty of them. But it's not something I agree with or am happy about.
Originally Posted by Helpmeiaminhell
This will either destroy his career.....or make him more popular than ever...Always thought he was a dick for shitting on the last few Mike Patton releases
Right, this is strictly my personal take, and I'm not even near the wordsmith in English as the Fader author is, but: the suggestion of "genuine" racist humour, Fantano spreading hate speech or his videos being a conservative mouthpiece while he was playing the saint for his larger audience on his main channel is wrong. Thatistheplan is not him speaking his mind; at least for the year or so I was following it, it had been a comedy channel, an off-the-wall and bizarre one, yes, largely inspired by 4chan's shock culture, not something easily digestible for an audience that's unfamiliar with the style, and definitely not the wisest direction to follow post-2016 and the alt-right association that came with the site, but it was just that. A dumb shitposting channel, "done for the lulz" as they used to say it back in the day. He was putting on an act, making fun of imageboard and outrage culture, taboos, the media, his own larger than life e-celebrity and YouTube in general. I know how clichéd this sounds, but the problematic content in this case wasn't meant to be taken at face value, and definitely not in the way Fader wants to take it, seemingly.
The article is slick, operating with sentences like "He’s playing the specter of black suicide and death for laughs." and it's hard to prove otherwise with the majority of the videos gone, but things like that were not what his humour or jokes were centered around. The appearances of Pepe the Frog weren't meant to be funny for what the character stands for, the joke is that Pepe is edgy and taboo now, a symbol that causes outrage. Same for the chord-on-the-neck shtick, which is something he was performing forever, as much a part of his thatistheplan persona as his white vest and orange hat and sunglasses. The freedom ring line in the XXXT video is there to shock, not to preach against black rights. His Hopsin-bashing has started as a diss response to one of actual bona fide alt-righter
s. Anthony - obviously - does not agree with him. And these are also cherry-picked examples from the ocean of content he put up on that channel. 9 out of the 10 times you'd see something that makes fun of top 10 anime list-style videos or the (inoffensive) new meme of the week, without a hint of political stuff - this "alt-right pandering for bucks" accusation seems nonsensical. To me.
As for his main channel(s), it's extremely rare for me to agree with one of his reviews, but I really enjoy his thinkpiece vlogs and podcasts. He comes off as a well-meaning professional guy with a genuine passion for music who's well-informed in today's media and culture. That's the Fantano most people came to know and love. His real political opinions or views on ace is not something he often talks about, his main interest is obviously in hip-hop and he married a black woman, which makes the accusations even more unlikely, but I don't personally know him. Just judging by his overall content over the years, thatistheplan was a cheap side project played for laughs, not an ugly glimpse into a two-faced asshole's rotten soul.
Supposedly we can expect a video from him commenting on the case very soon. I'm curious. Wishing the best to him as of now, it's going to be tough.
You have the right to think that, same with every other person who's opinion will be influenced by Fader And by God, there will be plenty of them. But it's not something I agree with or am happy about.
what about him participating in conversations where sexist/racist rhetoric was spewed unironically and he did nothing to prevent or dissuade it? that guy talking about raping and beating the shit out of lena dunham and anthony laughing about it is extremely fucked up.
What about the fact that his meme channel was satirical? What about him identifying as a feminist? What about him speaking maturely and respectfully on race relations multiple times throughout his career, as well as speaking against racism? What about his black wife? What about his left leaning stances in other videos? What about his political tweets that are clearly leftist, and supporting of other nationalities and races? This Fader article is a hit piece that intentionally leaves out information to make a situation out of nothing. I hope the internet hate machine doesn't eat this shit up.
That channel he posted that shit on was just a meme place. It was never to taken seriously, it was just stupid dank edgy stuff for shits and giggles. Apparently this time people took it serious
He probably made more ad money from 'meme review' than most people make by actually creating music. I'm not surprised by that, but it's depressing when you think about it.
In regards to the parody videos, we are all fully aware of the "satire" defence, that it's meant for an "in" audience, yep, understood. That completely ignores the wider social context of Black performers being left out of power positions in the culture industry, but okay, let's continue to ignore that and assume in good faith that he meant no harm to Black people by repeatedly using unacceptable slurs in a public forum.
More to the point: what the fuck was he thinking, interviewing those alt-right shitstains on his podcast? How naive do you have to be to entertain and associate yourself with those assholes by unquestioningly extending your platform to them?
He probably made more ad money from 'meme review' than most people make by actually creating music. I'm not surprised by that, but it's depressing when you think about it.
In regards to the parody videos, we are all fully aware of the "satire" defence, that it's meant for an "in" audience, yep, understood. That completely ignores the wider social context of Black performers being left out of power positions in the culture industry, but okay, let's continue to ignore that and assume in good faith that he meant no harm to Black people by repeatedly using unacceptable slurs in a public forum.
More to the point: what the fuck was he thinking, interviewing those alt-right shitstains on his podcast? How naive do you have to be to entertain and associate yourself with those assholes by unquestioningly extending your platform to them?
Okay, first off, he's a youtube music critic, he has no ability to fix institutionalized racism in an international multi-billion dollar industry, and implying he has anything to do with the lack of black positions in culture is ridiculous, especially considering the number of black musicians he constantly promotes.
Second, I have never seen him ever use a slur of any kind, and on the contrary, he has made videos explaining why slurs are hurtful and shouldn't be used.
Third, the only way to fix the divide (in the US particularly) in the political spectrum is to speak to each other, and I have no problem with that.
You can do this with pretty much any comedian. Cherry pick a few statements that sound "shocking" without context and use those to push a narrative and get some clicks. I feel like anyone who's actually seen the videos would realize it's blatant satire not to be taken the least bit seriously. Hopefully this stupid BS doesn't affect his career in any real way.
Okay, first off, he's a youtube music critic, he has no ability to fix institutionalized racism in an international multi-billion dollar industry, and implying he has anything to do with the lack of black positions in culture is ridiculous, especially considering the number of black musicians he constantly promotes.
Second, I have never seen him ever use a slur of any kind, and on the contrary, he has made videos explaining why slurs are hurtful and shouldn't be used.
Third, the only way to fix the divide (in the US particularly) in the political spectrum is to speak to each other, and I have no problem with that.
1) Irrelevant to my point about power dynamics at play here 2) Check the screenshots in The Fader 3) Sure, let's speak to people advocating rape and murder. Hey look, they're speaking about raping and murder. Guess I better not stop them on the platform I've extended to host them?
1) Irrelevant to my point about power dynamics at play here 2) Check the screenshots in The Fader 3) Sure, let's speak to people advocating rape and murder. Hey look, they're speaking about raping and murder. Guess I better not stop them on the platform I've extended to host them?
What exactly IS your point about power dynamics? It's not making much sense to me and I re-read it multiple times attempting to get it. His language dictates the position of black performers in this country? "real nigga hours" memes are meant to harm black people? I don't understand your other points either. Someone joking about rape and murder means they're advocating for rape and murder? Talking to someone on your podcast is an automatic endorsement of everything they say or joke about? btw not a single person he's had on his podcast is a member of the alt-right. That term gets thrown around so much it's lost all meaning.
Last edited by Airbornefeline; 10-04-2017 at 08:12 PM.
1) Irrelevant to my point about power dynamics at play here 2) Check the screenshots in The Fader 3) Sure, let's speak to people advocating rape and murder. Hey look, they're speaking about raping and murder. Guess I better not stop them on the platform I've extended to host them?
1) I guess I don't understand your point about power dynamics. Could you explain it more fully so I'll know what you mean? 2) Because I can't watch the video, I don't know what the context was. Was what he was rapping relevant to the image that he used? Hopsin raps about political and race stuff, but to a melodramatic degree. It's possible he was mocking that. I don't know, but because of other misinformation in the article, I'm not going to assume that there was something racist here, however bad taste it may have been. (3 That guy said those awful things on the podcast, not before. While I think Fantano should have done something about it, I can understand if he didn't as to not escalate the situation.
My argument here is not that he didn't talk to awful people, just that this article is picking and choosing to make Fantano look bad. If I didn't watch his reviews (not his meme bullshit, I always thought that was dumb) I would assume he was a neo-nazi or something based on this article. If he did something in bad taste, then he's not immune to criticism, but this article is a hit piece that dug through his hundreds of videos to find anything they could use against him while simultaneously not showing the multiple times he's talked about race-relations and been very pro-black. Don't you think that's suspicious journalism?
More to the point: what the fuck was he thinking, interviewing those alt-right shitstains on his podcast? How naive do you have to be to entertain and associate yourself with those assholes by unquestioningly extending your platform to them?
People like Sargon of Akkad routinely mock the Alt Right, Sargon comments on and mocks puritanical left wing hysteria..and Antony takes the piss out of genuine nutty Alt Righters like Paul Joseph Watson...
you can be married to someone who's black and still be racist (not saying he is, i'm just saying it's possible).
if someone comes on your podcast (which you later edit) and you don't feel the need to dissuade them from "humorously" discussing the rape and beating of someone, nor do you feel the need to excise it from the final product, then you're contributing to rape culture and you're part of the problem. for all the other shit that he did that may or may not have been satirical, this to me stands out as one of the most fucked up. i noticed that none of you who are defending him have addressed it since i brought it up before. how is this an ok thing to do?
If he did something in bad taste, then he's not immune to criticism, but this article is a hit piece that dug through his hundreds of videos to find anything they could use against him while simultaneously not showing the multiple times he's talked about race-relations and been very pro-black. Don't you think that's suspicious journalism?
It's irrelevant how many times he spoke about race relations. The Fader's writer reached out for comment from Fantano about the offensive content of his parodies and he declined to offer one. Am I going to defend their editorial practices? No, but the premise of the article is sound. In light of Fantano shutting down his memes channel, it's relevant to examine what was going on there and show where someone outwardly talking the talk about supporting Black artists has been simultaneously using them as a punchline to make money off the clicks of rubes. That was the sole intent of the parody channel, by the way: to make ad money. Fantano said on Twitter the reason he took it down is they stopped giving him money for it. He went on to say that he won't respond to the article except on YouTube (where the clicks will presumably earn him money on his "less-edgy" channel).
My point about power was that satire should be directed at those in power, not at those oppressed by it. This is an interesting case, because nobody now wants to be associated with the alt-right since it's been shown to be full of dangerous idiocy, but Fantano has been benefiting from flirting with the more popular extreme fringe right-wingers like Hyde, and basking in the sickly glow of 4chan for his entire career.
I used to be a little more like Fantano, as a young adult. I once believed his backwards-ass reasoning in that Tumblr post they linked to, about media creators bearing little responsibility for toxic portrayals of gender, that this debate was a distraction from REAL work on improving the cause of human rights. But he also seems to think the people criticizing media for its misogyny or racism "have it coming" when the onslaught of backlash from evil hate-nerds turns violent and predatory. If the byline of this article was a woman's name, it'd clearly be a fucking shitstorm of that already.
EDIT: oh wait he's Jewish, so of course there's already a Reddit thread about how this is a Jewish conspiracy to silence YouTubers. I can't even.
you can be married to someone who's black and still be racist (not saying he is, i'm just saying it's possible).
if someone comes on your podcast (which you later edit) and you don't feel the need to dissuade them from "humorously" discussing the rape and beating of someone, nor do you feel the need to excise it from the final product, then you're contributing to rape culture and you're part of the problem. for all the other shit that he did that may or may not have been satirical, this to me stands out as one of the most fucked up. i noticed that none of you who are defending him have addressed it since i brought it up before. how is this an ok thing to do?
No one's defending it because it is fucked up. There's no excuse for it, and I think it was a major misstep, and he should be criticized for it. That said, I don't think he's racist or alt-right, considering that he's has been openly against both, and this article is trying to paint him as that. If this article was about that one incident, I would have no issue with it. It's the rest of the article that I think is a problem.
It's irrelevant how many times he spoke about race relations. The Fader's writer reached out for comment from Fantano about the offensive content of his parodies and he declined to offer one. Am I going to defend their editorial practices? No, but the premise of the article is sound. In light of Fantano shutting down his memes channel, it's relevant to examine what was going on there and show where someone outwardly talking the talk about supporting Black artists has been simultaneously using them as a punchline to make money off the clicks of rubes. That was the sole intent of the parody channel, by the way: to make ad money. Fantano said on Twitter the reason he took it down is they stopped giving him money for it. He went on to say that he won't respond to the article except on YouTube (where the clicks will presumably earn him money on his "less-edgy" channel).
My point about power was that satire should be directed at those in power, not at those oppressed by it. This is an interesting case, because nobody now wants to be associated with the alt-right since it's been shown to be full of dangerous idiocy, but Fantano has been benefiting from flirting with the more popular extreme fringe right-wingers like Hyde, and basking in the sickly glow of 4chan for his entire career.
I used to be a little more like Fantano, as a young adult. I once believed his backwards-ass reasoning in that Tumblr post they linked to, about media creators bearing little responsibility for toxic portrayals of gender, that this debate was a distraction from REAL work on improving the cause of human rights. But he also seems to think the people criticizing media for its misogyny or racism "have it coming" when the onslaught of backlash from evil hate-nerds turns violent and predatory. If the byline of this article was a woman's name, it'd clearly be a fucking shitstorm of that already.
EDIT: oh wait he's Jewish, so of course there's already a Reddit thread about how this is a Jewish conspiracy to silence YouTubers. I can't even.
I agree with most of what you've said, but I still think you're viewing his meme channel as something directed at black people when it wasn't. He wasn't using "black people" as a punch line, he was using bad rappers. He made fun of rappers who were white as well.
What this comes down to for me isn't whether or not his meme channel was stupid, or whether or not he interviewed an offensive piece of shit, it's whether or not he is a racist, and I don't believe he is. I believe that this article misconstrues the nature of the videos on his meme channel to make them seem race-related when they were not. I think this article doesn't mention his wife, politics, or his beliefs about race because it would cripple their angle. I think that it points out irrelevant things, like the color of his mic cord, to reinforce a racial motive that doesn't exist.
So, in summary, I'm cool with criticizing Fantano for things that he's actually done, like the interview, but I'm not cool with making someone out to be a racist through misinformation. That's super not cool.
I agree. I think the combined actions of being married to a black woman and promoting music by black artists speak incredibly loudly.
Originally Posted by eversonpoe
you can be married to someone who's black and still be racist (not saying he is, i'm just saying it's possible).
I seriously doubt that, but ok. Either way its not like who he is married to is the only evidence against his being a racist.
Originally Posted by eversonpoe
if someone comes on your podcast (which you later edit) and you don't feel the need to dissuade them from "humorously" discussing the rape and beating of someone, nor do you feel the need to excise it from the final product, then you're contributing to rape culture and you're part of the problem. for all the other shit that he did that may or may not have been satirical, this to me stands out as one of the most fucked up. i noticed that none of you who are defending him have addressed it since i brought it up before. how is this an ok thing to do?
I've made a rape joke before. Not proud of it, wasn't funny, but I'm not a rapist, given that I've never raped anyone. You might say my actions (having not raped anyone my entire life) speak louder than my intentions (to make someone laugh via a stupid, poorly thought out joke) or words (as the saying typically goes.)
You can certainly say "actions speak louder than words/intentions", and I completely agree, but you should apply it evenly in all areas of the discussion. You're saying his inaction (not speaking up against rape humor in the podcast) being tacit support of rape culture, is more telling as to who he is than his other actions (having a black wife, supporting black artists, also not raping people) Seems like you're just applying value to the points that back up your side of the discussion and not looking at the whole picture, singling out one lone inaction and disregarding others.
And if we follow your logic, and say he should have spoke up against the rape humor (which I don't disagree with, I just don't think not saying anything makes him guilty by association) with his WORDS, would those words speak louder than his other ACTIONS? You know like how he doesn't rape people, making him by definition not a rapist? Or what if he was a rapist, but he spoke out against rape culture on his podcast, would that be ok? Of course not. My point is if you're going to place the most value on people's actions (which I 100% agree with) than you need to do it across the board. He's not a rapist, and the simple act of not speaking out against it once doesn't make him a supporter of "rape culture".
You can't say actions speak loud and then say that his lack of words on the subject is one action that speaks louder than all his other cumulative actions that indicate otherwise.
Last edited by AndItKeepsRepeating; 10-05-2017 at 02:02 PM.
I still think you're viewing his meme channel as something directed at black people when it wasn't. He wasn't using "black people" as a punch line, he was using bad rappers. He made fun of rappers who were white as well.
But Fantano didn't show them with slurs next to their faces on his channel — the problem is simply that he was reproducing memes mocking Black people. For the money. I don't care about anything else he's said about Black people, or who else he mocks, because it's really not an "is he racist/not racist" dichotomy being set up in the Fader piece, rather his defenders are leaping to make it about that — and ignoring his dismissal of "SJW" women/trans people, which is also troubling to me because he is choosing to align himself with an army of awfully hateful trolls, again likely for clicks/views/cash.
That's the thesis of the piece, not that he belongs to the Racist/White Supremacist club or the Alt-Right club (he doesn't) but that he pandered to that audience in search of ad revenue. His behaviour in other environments, to me, is not of material consequence to such moral failings.
Originally Posted by zecho
I think this article doesn't mention his wife, politics, or his beliefs about race because it would cripple their angle. I think that it points out irrelevant things, like the color of his mic cord, to reinforce a racial motive that doesn't exist.
So, in summary, I'm cool with criticizing Fantano for things that he's actually done, like the interview, but I'm not cool with making someone out to be a racist through misinformation. That's super not cool.
As far as I am aware, nobody has contradicted the veracity of any Fantano-created content reported in the piece. You may take issue with how the writer framed his personality, but the content Fantano created and hosted is indeed as it's described, no? What is the fault in pointing out how scummy it is? Or else, what exactly is the "tone" of the parody videos, if it's not meant to be mocking Black people? What else is he satirizing? Surely the salient point the writer made is that Fantano wrapped a mic cord around his neck to mock a Black man for contemplating suicide, not the color of the cord?
A +1 to @botley's articulate and nuanced response. IMHO taking racist material or views and remixing it or repurposing it, is, or at least can be racist in and of itself because even if the statement someone is trying to make is ostensibly about the people who produced the material in the first place, it completely ignores the fact that the material itself is harmful or offensive, and propagating it, even transformed, is harmful and offensive. Ignorance is no excuse in that context.
But I must say, at least so far, I'm really pleased that this thread is going the way it is... it's not an echo chamber for one faction or the other, it's heated but not boiling, and I get the feeling someone *might* learn something from it, just not sure who yet.
That said, since this has come up at least twice now
Originally Posted by AndItKeepsRepeating
Fantano is married to a black woman
This is basically irrelevant, it can't be used as a serious defence against accusations of racism. We've no idea what his marriage is like, how he treats his wife etc. The rest of your sentence sure, I'm not challenging that here, but this particular talking point, nope.
Likes: 
Faceplams: 
Originally Posted by Microwave Jellyfish
