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Thread: Okay, we need to talk about how these EPs reference the whole NIN discography

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    Okay, we need to talk about how these EPs reference the whole NIN discography

    Not the Actual Events Artwork
    -Directly referencing Still (though musically not really on that tip at all)

    She's Gone
    -Both a vague stylistic association with Reptile and the physical component sheet connecting.

    Add Violence Artwork
    -Directly referencing Year Zero (though also, musically not really all that similar)
    -One of the switches is labeled "Pinon" (Though in the context of the image, it probably just is being used as it's definition of: "to bind ones limbs"
    -There is also a gauge labeled "Presence" which could either be referencing Year Zero's "The Presence" or a more general use of the word, or both.
    -A numerical readout is labeled "Deviation" which could be a reference to "The Fragileeviations", or the statistical term, or both.

    Less Than
    -The 'Welcome Oblivion' line referencing the How to Destroy Angles Album
    -Possibly the fact that a lot of previous song melodies and styles are 'mashed up' in this song to make a sort of uber-single.
    -Music video has a lot of "hand" imagery. Hand coming from TV, floating hands coming down on the player in the game. Referencing Year Zero's "The Presence?"

    The Lovers
    -Referencing 'Dear World' once again with the whole "Everyone Seems to Be Asleep" talk
    -Lots of talk about stepping outside of time (Beside You In Time?) and other 'Bleedthrough' topics

    This Isn't the Place
    -Possibly referencing the cut With Teeth track "My Dead Friend?" Lyrics about a friend, and talking about thinking they had more time: common feeling in the grieving process.

    Not Anymore
    -Fuck...this...song
    -"Mouth Taped Shut" references the Girl With the Dragon Tattoo soundtrack (it's mini-ARG was called Mouth Taped Shut)
    -"Can't Seem to Wake Up", possibly similar to referencing "Everybody Seems to Be Asleep"

    The Background World
    -LOTs of 'Bleedthrough' context to the lyrical content on this one


    More Tenuous/Subjective Connections:

    Add Violence Artwork
    -One of the dials has a "Self Destruct" option. Referencing Mr. Self Destruct from The Downward Spiral?

    Less Than
    -Lyric "And you can justify it all" vs Zero Sum from Year Zero: "How could we justify it all?"
    -Lyric "The missile trails across the sky again" vs Satellite from Hesitation Marks: "Data trails like fingernails scratch across the sky"
    -Embedded (not sung) lyric in the MP3 tag "Yes this is about you" possibly referencing the Carly Simon lyric in Starfuckers?

    The Lovers
    -A general plot device of "going back" to something, possibly references similar lyrics in Burning Bright, though sounds like more of a literal time travel reference
    Some References:
    http://www.echoingthesound.org/commu...046#post361046
    http://www.echoingthesound.org/commu...038#post362038

    So yeah, let's talk about and catalog all of the connections that seem to be making. I will try to update this post periodically as new things are found/released.
    Last edited by GentlemanLoser; 07-21-2017 at 01:09 AM.

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    The Lovers
    "i am free, finally" referencing Everything from HM.

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    Maybe worth adding some refs from there if you're building up a big list?
    http://www.echoingthesound.org/commu...046#post361046
    http://www.echoingthesound.org/commu...038#post362038

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xvostya View Post
    Maybe worth adding some refs from there if you're building up a big list?
    http://www.echoingthesound.org/commu...046#post361046
    http://www.echoingthesound.org/commu...038#post362038
    Adding on to that list as this new EP added in more


    The Lovers: "(I can hear you breathing)"
    "Iíve slipped out of time again
    Leaving all of you behind
    And Iím free
    To return to the place where I already am
    And have always been
    If i just really looked and allowed myself"

    Burning Bright (Field On Fire):

    "I'm going back
    Of course I am
    As if I ever had a choice
    Back to what I always knew I was
    On the inside
    Back to what I really am"

    "Break through the surface and breath
    "
    I am forgiven
    I am free"


    ----------------------
    The Lovers (again) :

    "Everyone seems to be asleep but me"

    Dear World: Yes, everyone seems to be asleep



    These reference the EP before it, so this is probably progression of the EP's story

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    All seems like he's hopping through time and space and different planes of reality. Everything is overlapping and amalgamating and time is catching up with itself and the future is informing the past. In my head at least.

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    it appears these three ep's might be the closest thing to a "best-of" record that we're ever gonna get.

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    I think "Everyone seems to be asleep" from Dear World is a sample from and a reference to The Lovers, and not the other way around.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shagg_187 View Post
    I think "Everyone seems to be asleep" from Dear World is a sample from and a reference to The Lovers, and not the other way around.
    What makes you think that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by GentlemanLoser View Post
    What makes you think that?
    It's out of place in Dear World, like a sample from somewhere that didn't exist until now. It also sounds like it's the vocals from The Lovers being pushed through some vocoder/processor to give that low pitch voice. It's entirely possible, similar to how The Frail influenced the guitar solo in The Fragile.

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    TR's done the "dissolve into noise" thing a few times in the past, but the closest musical parallel to The Background World's deconstruction is probably Closer To God (from the TDS-era EP of the same name). I've always loved the ending of that track.

    Probably not really a direct reference, as it seems to me that the technique's used in two pretty distinct ways, but from a purely sonic perspective I think that's the closest match.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xolotl View Post
    TR's done the "dissolve into noise" thing a few times in the past, but the closest musical parallel to The Background World's deconstruction is probably Closer To God (from the TDS-era EP of the same name). I've always loved the ending of that track.
    Totally forgot about that track. I love that mix. I can see a slight resemblance, though TBW is probably a more direct statement of some sort (Copy of a Copy of a, signal getting lost in the noice of the media ecology chamber, etc) than just a stylistic end-flourish.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GentlemanLoser View Post
    TBW is probably a more direct statement of some sort (Copy of a Copy of a, signal getting lost in the noice of the media ecology chamber, etc) than just a stylistic end-flourish.
    Yeah, Closer To God was definitely just a "this sounds awesome" sort of thing, whereas TBW is pretty clearly Making A Point. Still! I've had that comparison bouncing around in my head since last night and needed to get it out on the board.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jughead View Post
    Back when the arg was going in 07 did any of the websites or characters in the yz universe reference NIN at all ?
    One standout is the forum site had a quote of Meet Your Master's lyrics on it. The alert sound on another page was the synth from Vessel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HWB View Post
    Adding on to that list as this new EP added in more
    These reference the EP before it, so this is probably progression of the EP's story
    The dissolve into noise at the end of The Background World rolls nicely into Branches/Bones. Maybe Not The Actual Events is the end of the trilogy, not the beginning?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jughead View Post
    Back when the arg was going in 07 did any of the websites or characters in the yz universe reference NIN at all ?
    The scientists with Solutions Foreword talked about sending stuff back encoded with music from someone "alive back then" and made an offhand comment about not knowing if they still were. Another site suggested that someone who was likely Trent was a detainee by the government.

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    Could be a stretch but the embedded lyrics to LESS THAN includes "yes this is about you"

    starfuckers inc/Carly Simon reference?

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    Quote Originally Posted by GentlemanLoser View Post




    The Background World
    1. LOTs of 'Bleedthrough' context to the lyrical content on this one

    .
    I don't know if it's intentional or if I'm crazy but the motif that plays behind the drum/bass line at the end of The Background World reminds me so much of The Greater Good off YZ. Given all the other YZ references it can't be a mistake.

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    Quote Originally Posted by whiskeyboy View Post
    The dissolve into noise at the end of The Background World rolls nicely into Branches/Bones. Maybe Not The Actual Events is the end of the trilogy, not the beginning?
    Oh, so like Manson's Antichrist Superstar trilogy. That's actually a neat theory you got, especially since Trent likes AS so much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shagg_187 View Post
    It's out of place in Dear World, like a sample from somewhere that didn't exist until now. It also sounds like it's the vocals from The Lovers being pushed through some vocoder/processor to give that low pitch voice. It's entirely possible, similar to how The Frail influenced the guitar solo in The Fragile.
    I would argure that it doesn't sound like the vocals from The Lovers. In fact, it sounds like it is the same slightly-slowed-down/processed in the same way the spoken "Dear Wrold, I am Leaving..." lyrics are in the song.

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    Musically, I can say a lot of sound sounds familiar.

    Not Anymore sounds like Head Like A Hole and No You Don't.

    Less Than sounds like The Beginning of The End.

    The Lovers sound like Eraser

    Few more elements from previous tracks can be heard. Of course, all it means that TR is still TR and makes what sounds good to him, including similar themes and music.
    Last edited by shagg_187; 07-21-2017 at 11:33 AM.

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    Heres my ideas:

    Add violence:


    Track five. Behind the background world:

    The character is telling the listener (lover)what is happening and reaffirming with them about his decision to travel back into the machine? Despite knowing that there is no future after this and that the risk of waking afterwards will leave him alone/final survivor... the 52 loops are then his descent through the machine or perhaps reliving his life as he comes back from the past to the present and perhaps could be each year is life as normal and getting worse and worse ( YZ era) and as it distorts ends in nuclear static i.e holocaust noise.... end of the world?

    Not the actual events:

    Track one


    Shes gone away

    Song feels like its the singer who is part of an effort to contact the past, watching/knowing that he isnt the only candidate doing so, and this is happening while he is describing the end of the world happening around him.... i.e the world committing suicide and theres nothing they can do to stop it or heal it.

    The idea of you

    Appears to be the singer internally arguing with and reasoning with himself about his actions to alert the past, perhaps the singer is being told to go back before his birth... i.e before the idea of me... then being unable to contact the past in this instance and awakening to self doubt and convincing himself that its worth it despite being in a box and recovered from the methods used to facilitate how its done.

    Burning bright

    Seems like the singer has done his job, but because of the result anyway and no change to his timeline that he has a sense of failure/success. Followed by his escape from captivity and decrying to the world of his freedom and being able to see the destruction of the world, and because of his efforts to help he is forgiven, while the remainder burn and have an end...yet his mind is so messed up from the travels that he cant tell if hes in his own time or not.... perhaps the presence has chosen him to survive knowing of his attempt to help the past to prevent the future?

    Perhaps the Fragile is the singers journey though and reflection on madness of his own life on the time journey to the past?

    Hesitation marks is the journey of a person monitoring the person undergoing the journey of the man in NTAE/AV. Or could be intertwined story of both? Perhaps becomes disillusioned with the methods used and dies at the end of the world in black noise? Or perhaps dies in the machine?

    Use of Opal? In came back haunted?? Explains black eyes red lips? Could be a test subject with hallucinations post test of travel device?
    Timeline

    Year zero - documents the future, all sides - govt, rebels and aliens. Culminates in destruction of humanity because of humanity killing the earth.

    NTAE/AV

    Documents the efforts of one of the mamy people who were used to send messages back to 2007 to forewarn of YZ and its events... i.e angrysniper etc.

    Perhaps The Fragile is the characters descent through memory and events in order to get to the past.

    The slip could be humanities efforts to save the world post warning by the presence, this could be the events in NTAE/AV...

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    Another thought to perhaps decoding the background world repeats...
    In the branches/bones lyrics, hes given the clue from the opening lines

    I.e you can make out pieces of what is being said and end being sewed shut is a reference to endless looping. Hes then slowed down parts of his music, and sped the time up, hence why changing speed or pitch isnt revealing anything because its a double encryption

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    ok, i don't know how to explain this while making much sense of it... but even not being canon, it's something cool to play with.

    i've been toying a lot with how NTAE/AV plays as an album. so i'd play one after another, which was cool, but for some reason, scrambling the tracklist seems to give it more of an "album" feel. i'm not sure how the third EP would slip into this, but depending on the song styles, it could make sense.

    1. branches / bones
    2. less than (single as a second track, which eases me in a bit. believe it or not, AV opening up with a single annoys me. plus, branches/bones is a strong, classical NIN opening banger)

    3. dear world,
    4. the lovers (dear world, bleeds really nicely into this one, i think it's because the songs are similar)

    5. she's gone away
    6. this isn't the place

    7. the idea of you
    8. not anymore (two tight tracks after two "atmospheric" ones)

    9. burning bright
    10. the background world (this is interesting, since they're the "noisiest" tracks on each EP).

    not arguing this was planned or anything, but just tinkering with the ways we can experience the EPs. i wonder what the third can do to this.

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    The idea I'm stuck on at the moment is that the story being told across the first two EPs is one of time, trying to copy the past but each time it's copied it degrades over time and if you continue to copy the past then it will eventually become so warped and distorted it's unrecognisable.

    The artwork for NTAE suggests this to me first - there are a couple of variations but essentially there is the adapted artwork of Still and the white version. This is like a degraded copy, maybe one of many like photocopying a photocopy of a photocopy (Copy of A, Copy of a...). The blurb for Still on nin.com is interesting as it goes out of the way to say, "One of Reznor's favourite records of his own".

    It could be that the idea is one of returning to a past you remember with rose tinted glasses for some reasons but in reality that's not the whole story (the actual events), trying to copy them over and over but realising you can't because you simply aren't that person anymore and that by trying to rekindle a warped version of the past you're not keeping anything alive, you're essentially destroying something as the principle behind it decays with each attempt of a copy you make. The only way forward is to evolve - this is one of the switches on the ADD VIOLENCE machine, regress or evolve. You'll only regress and degrade if you keep trying to repeat the past and you'll regret it eventually when the results lead you down a path of either stagnation or destruction and real regret of having squandered time.
    Last edited by acidpits; 07-23-2017 at 07:12 PM.

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    EP 3 is going to drop a bunch of references to Tapeworm, Just Do It and those missing With Teeth songs just to mess with people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Merriweather View Post
    EP 3 is going to drop a bunch of references to Tapeworm, Just Do It and those missing With Teeth songs just to mess with people.
    Funny, THIS ISN'T THE PLACE made me think of My Dead Friend - and Trent did say it might turn up in some form or other at some point in time.

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    NIN has always been self-referential, with tropes and leitmotifs all over the place. The two EPs do sound like echoes of each other, though.

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    I posted these in the Less Than thread:

    Has anyone mentioned the fact that the opening line is virtually identical to Dear World?
    Dear World: "Hey look, you didn't even notice"
    Less Than: "Focus? We didn't even notice"
    Zero-Sum: "How could we justify it all?"
    Less Than: "And you can justify it all"
    (tenuous: Hurt: "And you could have it all")

    Slightly more tenuous:
    Satellite: "Data trails like fingernails scratch across the sky"
    Less Than: "The missile trails across the sky again"
    (even more tenuous: All Time Low "We will live forever, baby, and stretch across the sky")
    Also, The Background World seems to (musically, not lyrically) reference at least one HTDA song in its first section. That may just be a stylistic similarity, though.

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    My memory isn't what it used to be so this could be total nonsense but I'm sure i read/watched an interview with Trent a few years ago where he said that My Dead Friend ended up becoming Beside You In Time.

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    I noticed something so I scanned the forum and found this thread. Some people are saying there is an ARG happening but we all missed the clues and stuff. I noticed through the EP's not only the lyrics but some sounds that are from previous works.. One example if at 3:38 of Burning Bright on YouTube there is some guitar strumming, which sounds like a direct lift from Somewhat Damaged? or one of the songs off of the Fragile.. I just remember hearing that exact strumming before.
    As it pertains to the possible ARG... in an interview he did the day before the Bakersfield show he talked about how fascinated he was at how people discovered Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon synced with the Wizard of Oz movie. Especially how cuts lined up and such... Do you think we should be looking at the songs from NTAE and AV and seeing if they somehow sync up with other NIN songs and maybe then something will be revealed ?

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