Mad Men

[littlemonkey613]

Did anyone else feel that Stan and Peggy thing felt really forced and awkward? Really seemed like the writers just shoehorned that story in just to tie their stories up quickly.

I loved the finale over all but this was definitely the weakest aspect to me personally. I knew they were going to end up together but I think my problem was I never shipped it that heavily so to speak. I never felt romantic fire in them or something but I know we were supposed to. I do think Peggy finding love is the natural "conclusion" to her story though, but I agree there was something about the execution that lacked a little magic something to me. The acting was great though.

Anyways I'm sad to say goodbye to my favorite show. I am most perplexed by my love for Don as a person. I don't think I've ever read or seen anything where I felt that we got to know a character so intimately as a complex consciousness/person. Like that is a real ass dude. Ugh my tears. My favorite scene was the Don/Peggy phone call. Person to person. :')

[Crazyman]

Did anyone else feel that Stan and Peggy thing felt really forced and awkward? Really seemed like the writers just shoehorned that story in just to tie their stories up quickly.

Yes. I thought that was easily the worst part of the episode. That romance had been building for so long, they had a bunch of options on how to consummate it in a more natural way, so I was slightly disappointed in that regard.

I look at the last scene as Don realizing who he is - an advertising man. Yes he sold out the counter-culture in the biggest way possible, but he also learned to stop trying to punish himself for everything. There are two scenes that I think are worthy in this theory. I think the scene when he confronts Stephanie after she bolts out of the session is very telling - he tries to give her the same advice he gave Peggy (and that he followed in the past) about moving forward and she rejects it (and Don). She takes off and keeps pursuing some answer or resolution to her problem.

The other scene is the phone call with Peggy. There's a very "confession" aspect to what Don tells Peggy, as if he's trying to repent. That draws back on the previous scene when he tells Stephanie that she wasn't raised with Jesus so she doesn't understand what happens to people when they believe in things. Peggy, however, shows Don the love that he never had from his mother (and likewise she'll never give to her son - thanks reddit for that!) and tells him to come home. That, coupled with Don's realization that there's other people going through the same thing he is while listening to Leonard speak leads me to believe that he might have made a breakthrough.

Or he goes back to New York and repeats the same mistakes all over again. This is Mad Men, after all. Either way I think the episode succeeds because it gives closure, but not complete closure. It's ambiguous, but not too ambiguous. This wasn't the best episode of MM, but it was a fitting close to a series of incredible visual short stories. As Bert would say: "bravo!"

[littlemonkey613]

http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2015/05/...-of-don-draper

This is a great read.

"WHY IS ADVERTISING SO IMPORTANT TO DON?"

I literally never asked myself that really until Peggy asked him to come home. His and Peggy's approach to the craft is like this sacred answer to the innate cynicism of the context. Mad Men is so comfortable in the realm of conflicting truths and I just...

[implanted_microchip]

I was so totally satisfied with the finale. This was a show where, unlike Breaking Bad where the finale was all but written on its own by the last few episodes, it could have gone in almost any direction up to the last fifteen minutes even. I found it deeply satisfying, fulfilling, validating of a lot of the series, full of growth and continuing the sense that there is so much more we'll never see and they won't see of each other. The entire final sequence was just incredibly moving.

Also I don't know if it was mentioned here already but the final season opens with Freddy Rumsen pitching Don's watch ad and making the "ommm" sound and of course the show ends with that sound followed by the Coke commercial.

Jon Hamm said in an interview he sees it as Don accepting who he is, realizing all the love those around him have truly given him, that Don Draper is very much his own identity just as much as Dick Whitman is, and finding peace in that, being able to return home a whole man as opposed to the two halves he'd constantly been living as throughout the series, and I love that. I was so invested in his character, and really loved the way they depicted his constant restless loneliness throughout the show, his regular fear of missing out on the thing that might make him happy or fulfilled, and for him to realize everything he needs for fulfillment has been right there all along is so great.

I totally thought of the pitch scene where he talks about the hotel ad with the footprints and clothes leading into the ocean on a beach, where they then discussed the film he got the idea from and how the man was committing suicide, not swimming off to paradise as Don saw it when they showed him looking out on the ocean. I almost expected it to end with him walking down, the camera staying in place, as he takes each piece of clothing off and disappearing into the water, left open to decide whether he is freeing himself or killing himself. I certainly think it was intentional to think of that.

I'm incredibly happy with where they ended his character though. I loved the Peggy/Stan scene and I'll admit teared up at it like a menopausal woman watching a soap opera. Sue me. I was surprised how satisfied I was with every major character's final scenes. Almost all of them found a sense of fulfillment in the places they were never looking for throughout the show -- at the start Joan is fixated on marrying wealthy and never working again, then turns that down to have her own business. Peggy is career-obsessed and finds comfort in her personal love with Stan. Don is able to find comfort as himself, able to accept and consolidate his identity and presumably find bliss being who he is. I like to think he goes and has that zen happiness Cooper always seemed to carry around. Pete finds happiness in the arms of his family. Roger finds his fulfillment in a woman of the same age who is every bit as independent and free-spirited as he is rather than the various secretaries and hippie girls he was constantly getting lost with. Betty seems to have a sense of peace being her own woman, going to school, doing things her way, smoking cigarettes as a sort of "fuck you" to her lung cancer, finally not doing everything the men in her life demand of her. It was just so well done. I really think it was a total success of a finale. One of my favorites for one of my favorite series that I no doubt am going to love rewatching in full with the final episodes in mind.

[Piko]

After talking about it for awhile. I think I'm getting it now. Probably was a good ending after all. Guess it wasn't the dramatic ending I was expecting. Will probably watch it again soon.

[Presideo]

I loved the finale - the idea that man is never complacent with what he has, and is constantly striving for more, has always been a big focus for the show; to see Don finally happy and at peace in his life without his crutches (booze, women, the job) was a perfect way to end the series.

I also thought the Peggy/Stan matchup was great to finally see - the fact that she didn't run after Don or follow Joan's plan, but actually looked out for her own interests, really shows how far she's come since the beginning.

[implanted_microchip]

Oh and Weiner clarified a good bit here and shoots down the more cynical interpretation of the ending: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/new...matthew-797302

[Crazyman]

I watched the live feed of that part of the interview. He seemed shocked that people thought it could be a cynical ending.

I'm the other way - if that ending is pure and genuine then I'm pretty sure Matt Weiner is some sort of alias for M Night Shyamalan. I have no problem with Don finding peace with who he is in the final scene, but there's definitely something about the fact that he takes that idea from the counter culture and uses it to make one of the most popular commercials of the 20th century. Also this is Don Draper, a guy we've seen not grow or grow very little for 7 seasons now.

[Piko]

Not sure I'd call it cynical. He definitely cashed in on it though.

[Crazyman]

I wouldn't call it cynical either, but I think it (the episode and the show as a whole) benefits more when you picture Don's ending slightly more "cynical" than a perfectly happy ending. He's grown (slightly) and may have achieved a bit of peace, but he still sold out an entire movement in a brilliant ad.

Also I watched the last episode again. Still dislike the Peggy/Stan scene, but the rest of the episode was about as good as it gets. Great ending, imo.

[Piko]

Peggy and Stan was definitely forced together. They've been building that chemistry since about season five. It was there to be done. The payoff just didn't match the build up.

[Crazyman]

For the record season 5 is my second favorite season of the show, closely behind season 4. Starting with "Shut The Door, Have A Seat" (season 3 closer, my favorite episode of the show) and ending with Don walking off the stage and sitting in the bar (which would've been a perfect series finale) is nothing short of incredible. Sure there's a few moments that aren't perfect, but it's about as good of a 2 season long stretch that you'll ever find on a television show.

[Sallos]

Not sure but i could swear i read somewhere that the show would end in the 21st century setting, kinda glad it didn.t

[Maul]

I liked the Stan/Peggy angle,it actually brought tears to my eyes.

[Piko]

I liked the Stan/Peggy angle,it actually brought tears to my eyes.

I liked the angle. So-so about the conclusion.

[neorev]

I think if they just left out Peggy's whole "Oh my god, I love you too!" revelation part, the scene wouldn't have been so bad.
Like have Stan say his thing and Peggy be like "What?... what?" and cut away.
It would have been funnier.
Then just show that scene later of the two of them together with Peggy at the typewriter and Stan coming over to her to show that they did get together.
Peggy's whole realization moment is what really sent the scene over the edge into corny territory.

[Piko]

What they did just didn't fit the show at all. I would've gone the way more simplistic route of it just happening. Everyone knew the chemistry was there. So if they just kissed out of nowhere, it would probably have been more ok. Instead, they went the super cheesy, chiche route.

[Crazyman]

Exactly. For a show that never crossed that territory I'm pretty disappointed they went that route in the last episode. Also my controversial opinion: Elisabeth Moss overacted in her realization scene. It's probably because the writing of it was so stupid and cheesy, but that may have been her worst scene on the entire show, especially for an actress that deserves multiple Emmy's and won't end up with one.

Seriously if no one on the cast wins an Emmy I'm going to be pissed. Even if it's a stupid award it irks me that they won't get recognized for the job they've done.

[emptydesk]