Sandbag Watch - NIN and Sandbag part. Livenation picks up the pieces.

[Ryan]

It also doesn't warrant over $100 after shipping.

Neither do your booty calls but I've easily spent over $10k on those.

[tremolo]

Was this ever advertised as a collectors item, or deluxe edition?

As far as i know, it's just a limited edition, and that's how it was advertised.

One of the problems is that a lot of people buy records (and merchandise in general) to never open it and just jerk off to it. In this case, you are buying MUSIC, which is meant to be experienced through your ears, that's what you are paying for, thats what should be worth your money.

Despite this, it must be a bummer to receive damaged goods, especially after all the bs that went on.

[Jon]

+A sticker on the shrink wrap with a funny blank parental advisory sign.

The bars/bands are present throughout with the mosaics, giving the blank Parental Advisory relevance even strictly from an artwork standpoint.

Reminds me of tDR's work for Autechre. Simple, clean fonts, geometry compounded/composited, and color variation. Minimalism to an extreme.

[Toadflax]

In this case, you are buying MUSIC, which is meant to be experienced through your ears, that's what you are paying for, thats what should be worth your money.

Nope. You're buying music and a thing. People weren't given the option to buy just the music for a price similar to what 2.5 hours of music usually costs, so if they wanted it, they had to buy the music and a thing for a total of $80. That's what you are paying for; that's what should be worth your money.

[neorev]

Nope. You're buying music and a thing. People weren't given the option to buy just the music for a price similar to what 2.5 hours of music usually costs, so if they wanted it, they had to buy the music and a thing for a total of $80. That's what you are paying for; that's what should be worth your money.

Well said.

[tony.parente]

Nope. You're buying music and a thing. People weren't given the option to buy just the music for a price similar to what 2.5 hours of music usually costs, so if they wanted it, they had to buy the music and a thing for a total of $80. That's what you are paying for; that's what should be worth your money.

The music is worth what an average 4 record albums worth of music is worth. In ghosts case that's $9.99 on iTunes. Anything past that is stuff. So in this case you're paying $70 for stuff.

I don't think the stuff we got was worth $70, especially when you could buy that very ghosts album with essentially the same packaging reskinned for $40 when it was first available.

[tremolo]

Nope. You're buying music and a thing. People weren't given the option to buy just the music for a price similar to what 2.5 hours of music usually costs, so if they wanted it, they had to buy the music and a thing for a total of $80. That's what you are paying for; that's what should be worth your money.

I'm talking about the ultimate purpose or the intended use of what you are buying.

Yeah, you can buy crayons to stick them up your nose or to play yenga, but their intended purpose is to be used to draw/paint. If the box is damaged and /or the paper wrap around each crayon is not the way you want it to be... well, to me it doesn't matter as long as the crayons do what they are supposed to do and the quality/price ratio is fair.

I do understand your point though. I wish they had given us the option of a CD, because I like physical formats. In this case I stole the music, cause I couldn't afford the $80 that the vinyl costs. Knowing now what the edition actually looks like, I would pay for it if I could afford it, cause the music is worth it and that's what I'm after. But then again, I'm no collector and can understand how some people might feel they've been ripped off if they aproach this from a different perspective.

[Conan The Barbarian]

Was this ever advertised as a collectors item, or deluxe edition?

As far as i know, it's just a limited edition, and that's how it was advertised.

One of the problems is that a lot of people buy records (and merchandise in general) to never open it and just jerk off to it. In this case, you are buying MUSIC, which is meant to be experienced through your ears, that's what you are paying for, thats what should be worth your money.

Despite this, it must be a bummer to receive damaged goods, especially after all the bs that went on.

The Mission statement was to sit down with the artwork as you listened. Your gonna pop in one record and be done with the visual before Somewhat Damaged is even finished.

[ninjaw]

Buying music... I'm 43 and I cannot remember buying a single pure cd player on my own... back at the time i was already buying vcd dvd sacd then bluray. I -of course- never had to buy a crappy vinyl player on my own and believe me I never will. No i didn't bought music here, just a big picture.. well actually no, i bought an halo to fit with my other halos, i don't unseal cds since I don't use them.

[Toadflax]

I'm talking about the ultimate purpose or the intended use of what you are buying.

Yeah, you can buy crayons to stick them up your nose or to play yenga, but their intended purpose is to be used to draw/paint. If the box is damaged and /or the paper wrap around each crayon is not the way you want it to be... well, to me it doesn't matter as long as the crayons do what they are supposed to do and the quality/price ratio is fair.

Yeah, if you pay $5 for a box of crayons, who cares if the box doesn't look nice or is in bad shape. If you pay $50 for a sexy box of those same crayons, though, the box had better be fucking sexy.

[tremolo]

The Mission statement was to sit down with the artwork as you listened. Your gonna pop in one record and be done with the visual before Somewhat Damaged is even finished.

If that was the mission statement, I understand why people are pissed off.

I didn't hear that interview with TR about records and the whole experience around it that has been mentioned in this thread. So I guess I shot himself in the foot.

I hope that he does something about it then. Maybe mailing a separate booklet to the buyers would make people happy?

[tremolo]

Yeah, if you pay $5 for a box of crayons, who cares if the box doesn't look nice or is in bad shape. If you pay $50 for a sexy box of those same crayons, though, the box had better be fucking sexy.

Not really. If the quality of the crayons is worth the $50, i couldn't care less about the box.

Now, if the owner or CEO of the crayon company talks at length about how the box is so important and leads me to think that the overprice is because of the box, and I get a shitty piece of bent cardboard instead of a nice metal box, yeah, I would be a bit annoyed.

[Sarah K]

I waited at home all day because my shipping updated and said it would be delivered today. Now it says they tried to deliver at 6:55pm but there was no secure delivery spot. They didn't even buzz my fucking apartment. I hate the USPS so much.

[tony.parente]

If that was the mission statement, I understand why people are pissed off.

I didn't hear that interview with TR about records and the whole experience around it that has been mentioned in this thread. So I guess I shot himself in the foot.

I hope that he does something about it then. Maybe mailing a separate booklet to the buyers would make people happy?

Or a $40 off coupon for a ticket to one of their shows.

[neorev]

Let's not forget the many years Trent cockteased us about this crazy expanded Fragile reissue only to just get the album reissued as is on vinyl and then this plain basic art with instrumental versions and a few unheard demos/interludes. I imagine people were expecting just a little more than this, especially when it comes to the art side. The Fragile was everything but minimal. I just thought something special like this would have been treated with a little more dignity and respect. It's nice to have these instrumentals, but the lack of art really makes it feel... less special. I wish it was something that felt a little more aesthetically connected to The Fragile.

[implanted_microchip]

A point too that hasn't been made is that a lot of these versions were available in lower quality through Apple Music ages ago -- so you're getting stuff already available but in better quality along with some unreleased tracks and extremely limited packaging for $80. I don't know, maybe I'm just the "entitled" fan of lore, but I think I'm generally understanding with this band and I'm less than thrilled with the end results of this release. The comparison to the Ghosts deluxe is spot on, and I would have been thrilled with a release similar to that.

[Aaron Geis]

Mine arrived damaged as well. And my friend posted pictures of hers today on Instagram, also damaged. And yeah, the experience is lackluster. I created a ticket on Sandbag's website requesting a replacement, but I don't have high hopes. If this was a $25 or $30 item I wouldn't be complaining honestly. But at that price point... It's just not a good fan experience.

First three photos are mine, the last three my friend's...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/hkxaq8a9hn..._9006.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/acksyt6dh3..._9007.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/bsb48817fn..._9009.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/c759loonpp..._9010.PNG?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/oyye9p7m0c..._9011.PNG?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/g1hempgewi..._9012.PNG?dl=0

[neorev]

I love how the PDF artwork has all the vinyl side info and tracklisting for each record... for the digital release. Why would you have made this vinyl specific artwork but only give it as PDF file for the digital download? Something is fishy here. Because it seems like they were planning a full on art release, but delivered this half ass release instead. Why? I think we deserve an honest answer from Trent. Something is up here. Did he want to make more money and decided to bare bones it? Did the delay play a part of it? Because I'm sure many folks would have rather waited longer for a proper release that matches what the PDF shows than be stuck with the end producer they have right now. But the fans deserve an answer.

Trent sandbagged us!

[Leviathant]

It's almost as though they had to eat a bunch of cost just to change retailer relationships, and rather than push everyone through further delays, they did what they could with what was left - and you got new music on vinyl.

(conjecture - I have no insight at the moment into the process here, but it seems really fucking obvious to me that the Firebrand thing was a big disaster, and disasters are havoc on budgets)

Was there anything really promised for Deviations beyond the music being on vinyl? As I understand it, the reissues are getting really nice treatment when it comes to package and packaging.

But sure, get your consumerist rage on. Surely Trent pulled a fast one on you guys, and is laughing all the way to the bank. Sure showed you suckers!

[GentlemanLoser]

It's almost as though they had to eat a bunch of cost just to change retailer relationships, and rather than push everyone through further delays, they did what they could with what was left - and you got new music on vinyl.

(conjecture - I have no insight at the moment into the process here, but it seems really fucking obvious to me that the Firebrand thing was a big disaster, and disasters are havoc on budgets)

Was there anything really promised for Deviations beyond the music being on vinyl? As I understand it, the reissues are getting really nice treatment when it comes to package and packaging.

But sure, get your consumerist rage on. Surely Trent pulled a fast one on you guys, and is laughing all the way to the bank. Sure showed you suckers!

Dude, I love you and all, you're the tireless nin-fan that gives and gives to his fellow fans over the years, but $80 man. That is a pretty disproportionate amount of money versus product compared with what we have seen with almost every other nine inch nails release.

I mean, caveat emptor and all, but still... It's not irrational to a tad disappointed at this. The poor packing material and rash of damaged items arriving are just salt on the wound.

[implanted_microchip]

An extreme minority of people in this thread are suggesting that Trent "pulled a fast one." There's just a lot of people disappointed in a pretty basic package being the cost of 2-4 other albums with less art than the attached digital copy while arriving damaged and dinged up.

Even if you think there's no room to complain about the product itself, you can't act like the shipping isn't being handled poorly -- especially after the quality shipping/packing of Before the Flood, there's no real excuse for something to be done this shoddily with so much room for error. If costs were a concern then they shouldn't have sent out something in a way that would guarantee the need for a bunch of replacements.

And while they may not have directly promised something special, to market it as a limited "once it's gone, it's gone" thing restricted to one single format and then giving it an eighty dollar price tag is certainly suggestive of something more than this ... minimal? Basic? Standard-looking? So far nobody has suggested they expected anything wild and out there.

[neorev]

An extreme minority of people in this thread are suggesting that Trent "pulled a fast one." There's just a lot of people disappointed in a pretty basic package being the cost of 2-4 other albums with less art than the attached digital copy while arriving damaged and dinged up.

Even if you think there's no room to complain about the product itself, you can't act like the shipping isn't being handled poorly -- especially after the quality shipping/packing of Before the Flood, there's no real excuse for something to be done this shoddily with so much room for error. If costs were a concern then they shouldn't have sent out something in a way that would guarantee the need for a bunch of replacements.

And while they may not have directly promised something special, to market it as a limited "once it's gone, it's gone" thing restricted to one single format and then giving it an eighty dollar price tag is certainly suggestive of something more than this ... minimal? Basic? Standard-looking? So far nobody has suggested they expected anything wild and out there.

I think people just expected to get something that somewhat matched what was shown in the PDF file. What was delivered in the end is nowhere even close. The PDF file is the smoking gun because it obviously shows artwork specific to each record's inner sleeve art. It seems something more elaborate was planned, but not delivered. The PDF art itself makes zero sense. For digital music, having artwork that says Side 1A and Side 1B and the associated tracklist info and so on makes absolutely no sense in regards to the actual digital download. music files These digital files are labeled tracks 1, 2, 3, 4 and so on, not by which vinyl and which side they are on. This is why the final release is disappointing because the art file given obviously shows art tailored to vinyl and something greater. I believe fans have every right to have at least expected a product that was closer to the PDF. So yes, Trent built up the expectation because he gave an art file especially laid out for a vinyl pressing. The PDF file makes no sense if it's just some digital exclusive art and it definitely insinuates a more elaborate vinyl package. I don't know what more proof you need. Something went wrong along the way and the end product is not what was initially intended nor does it meet the $80 price tag.

[tony.parente]

It's almost as though they had to eat a bunch of cost just to change retailer relationships, and rather than push everyone through further delays, they did what they could with what was left - and you got new music on vinyl.

Leaving firebrand was a choice on his end (which I support) but why does the end consumer have to be stuck with a lackluster $80 release because of it? This is legitimately a standard run of the mill vinyl release for almost 3 times the price.

[Toadflax]

People keep making arguments along the lines of, "was anything promised other than the album on vinyl?" Yes, absolutely. When every album in your store is being sold for $20 - $45, then by selling this for $80, you are implicitly promising that it will be between twice and four times better than the other items in the store. Something that makes it reasonable for it to cost four times as much as Hesitation Marks or almost twice as much as the brand new, meticulously prepared, definitive version of The Fragile.

Again, I'm okay with paying a premium for this album to exist at all and to own possibly the only version that will ever exist, but you can't fault people for saying the price to content ratio is not congruent with other items in the same store.

[DVYDRNS]

some of you people will bitch about absolutely anything.

[Lerxto]

some of you people will bitch about absolutely anything.

*sighs*
Welcome to ETS. Do you know a site called netphoria, btw?

[DVYDRNS]

been here for so many years. since the beginning I think... I don't know why I'm surprised. it just seems like it gets worse and worse and worse as I get older.

[Lerxto]

At least we keep the discussion/bitching rational and civilized here.

[neorev]

Here's an $80 4LP vinyl set that is actually worth the price tag...

[Toadflax]

I get NIN fans are notorious for being bitchy, but this is $80, guys. This isn't people bitching about a $12 physical component not arriving on time or that an album released for free isn't a masterpiece. This is people frustrated that they spent quite a lot of their hard-earned money on an album- in some cases the most they've ever spent on an album- and the product they received is not coming close to living up to their (in most cases very reasonable) expectations.