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Thread: The Media, Fake News, Fox, CNN, MSNBC and any other media outlets, Trust No One

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by elevenism View Post
    i feel like there is a lot of discussion to be had here. so here i go:

    A whole lot of this is true.
    But can we really call Fox "FAKE news?" i mean, is it "faker" than far left "news shows?"
    Fox News is not a legitimate source of news, just like how Huffington Post isn't, even if I'm skewed to agree with their take. Fox News is bullshit spin. Just like Huffington Post, just like Buzzfeed, just like Occupy Democrats. Regardless of whether I agree with them or not, they're not a legitimate news source.

    CNN is. The Washington Post is. Even if I veer away from the slant in many of their opinion pieces and think it's unsettling that Rupert Murdoch bought them, the WSJ is still a resource that I would call legitimate news. The New York Times is legitimate news.

    Fox is a counter foil to Huffington Post, masquerading as something similarly credible to The New York Times. And they aren't. They're Breitbart-lite. I like Rachel Maddow but she isn't an objective news anchor. I think Kieth Olbermann is an insufferable pretentious asshole, even when I agree with him, and he's definitely not a "legitimate unbiased news outlet."

    Trump's "FAKE NEWS!!!" shit is reminiscent of Nazi "lieben presse" spin. His supporters actually do not understand the distinction between sensationalist spin and empirically backed objective coverage. Yes, mainstream legit news outlets are making Trump look bad right now... because he's fucking bad.
    Last edited by Jinsai; 09-21-2017 at 08:12 PM.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by elevenism View Post
    i feel like there is a lot of discussion to be had here. so here i go:

    A whole lot of this is true.
    But can we really call Fox "FAKE news?" i mean, is it "faker" than far left "news shows?" Some shows on like MSNBC report the news from an absurdly slanted angle too. Is it better just because it's slanted in a direction that makes us comfortable?
    Remember that i'm a hardcore left wing pinko commie liberal. i'm just playing the devil's advocate here.
    That being said however, personally, ANY blatant slant makes me sort of uncomfortable.

    Also, i swear to fucking god, every time i hear donald trump say "fake news" and do that thing with his lips and his face, i want to fucking kill myself.
    We have three types of “news:”

    * Real unedited unfiltered no-opinion-provided news
    * Real news that is edited or fed through the filter of agenda, opinion, hyperbole, bombast, with an obvious eye on ad revenue, hits, profits and is no longer real news
    * Fake news, which contains no actual facts, e.g. the Weekly World News of politics (pizzagate, Clinton Cash, etc.)

    CNN is not real news; it’s news fed through the filter of opinion; it’s spun news. Ditto for Fox News, and Breitbart, and a lot of MSNBC.

    Real news is unedited, unfiltered news, unconcerned with sponsors or ad revenue or ruffling feathers, and totally absent of opinion or spin or hyperbole or agenda.

    “Fake” news is nothing but false conspiracy news, and is mostly found on deliberate fake news web sites.

    Don’t confuse slanted news, deliberate out-of-context quotes, or perpetuated hyperbole as all “fake news.”

    But, question everything. Trust no one.
    Last edited by allegro; 09-21-2017 at 08:45 PM.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    We have three types of “news:”

    * Real unedited unfiltered no-opinion provided news
    * Real news that is fed through the filter of agenda, opinion, hyperbole, bombast, with an obvious eye on ad revenue, hits, profits and is no longer real news
    * Fake news, which contains no actual facts, e.g. the Weekly World News of politics and was never real news

    CNN is not real news; it’s news fed through the filter of opinion; it’s spun news. Ditto for Fox News, and Breitbart, and a lot of MSNBC.

    Real news is unedited, unfiltered news, unconcerned with sponsors or ad revenue or ruffling feathers, and totally absent of opinion or spin or hyperbole or agenda.

    “Fake” news is nothing but false conspiracy news, and is mostly found on deliberate fake news web sites.

    Don’t confuse slanted news, deliberate out-of-context quotes, or perpetuated hyperbole as all “fake news.”

    But, question everything. Trust no one.

    I agree with everything you're saying, with the exception of CNN. They have perhaps the most expansive access to news resources of any outlet in the US. Their opinion coverage slants hard left, but their objective reporting is fact based, with some rare notable missteps. It could be argued that they cherry pick the news that they want to feature, but it's a far far cry from an outlet like Fox (or HuffPo)

    My biggest gripe with CNN is that they drag up straw man arguments from ludicrous panelists as a counterpoint to their debate coverage.

  4. #94
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    I watch CNN to laugh.

    And I’m a Socialist!

    We both have degrees in English:

    Ethos, Pathos, Logos, all fed through the profitable News-as-Entertainment Machine.

    You only see it differently from Fox because CNN is telling you what you want to hear.

    It’s why I watch MSNBC. (which has Maddow! and Lawrence O'Donnell, omg! LOL LOL)

    The debates and news coverage on CNN is so over-the-top it’s ridiculous, it’s nuts. Don Lemon, come on, wtf. Even Anderson Cooper is like Geraldo Rivera.

    At least Chris on Hardball can say what’s total bullshit. Maddow is laughable, though.

    I get my “real” news from newspapers.

    I get my “entertainment” news on TV.
    Last edited by allegro; 09-21-2017 at 09:57 PM.

  5. #95
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    Yes, in a way that could be similarly knocked down to Fox, they're sensationalist. There's a weird gray area there for me though, because they have insanely expansive resources. You have to filter out the opinion slant. They have, I suppose, seemingly become more of a ratings-first sensationalism machine...

    Y'know, you might be right, that Fox and CNN have far too much in common in approach. I guess I just value CNN more because of the insane access they have to information that many other news outlets are not privy to. News will break on CNN before other outlets... and they usually handle that sort of thing in a manner careful to avoid spin. It's too bad that on a whole it's devolved to what it's become.

  6. #96
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    CNN “breaks” certain types of news because CERTAIN PEOPLE ARE FEEDING IT TO THEM, mostly for their own gain, and a lot of the info is questionable, at best. It’s still all about ratings and profits, and spinning it to spoon-feed their masses the stuff they lap up like peanut butter. It’s no different than The Weather Channel: facts, edited and spun for entertainment.

    WaPo has them beat, hands down. Read your news.
    Last edited by allegro; 09-21-2017 at 09:03 PM.

  7. #97
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    Washington Post is definitely ahead of CNN in breaking coverage that I feel is unbiased and reliable.

    I can think of a few instances where CNN broke a story that they later had to retract. Their sources aren't crap, even if they're "on their side." Y'know what's funny? When it comes to Trump and this whole "the lady doth protest too much" with all this "FAKE NEWS!!!" crap, his biggest target has always seemed to be CNN. Sure, he'll do his thing where he calls The NYtimes "failing," even as they have seen their subscriptions burst through the roof, but that's how he works... it's always Opposite Day with him.

    But he really has it out for CNN. Perhaps it's because they truly are the leftist equivalent of Fox at this point. Or...

    Really, this whole "FAKE NEWS FUCK CNN THEY'RE FAKE NEWS FAAAAAAKE NEWS!!!!!" angle started bursting out of him when CNN reported that Buzzfeed had published an article about that dossier... Sure, it was strange of CNN to run with it like they did, but ever since, that's been a huge chip on his shoulder.

    It all reminds me of that brilliant debate send up that SNL did, with Alec Baldwin saying "I have the best judgement and the best temperament, she's the one with the bad temperament. She's always screaming, she's constantly lying, her hair is crazy, her face is completely orange, except around the eyes where it's white, and when she starts talking her mouth looks like a tiny little butthole." He's the king of transparent projection, and it's weird and curious how much he hates CNN.

    At this point, call me biased, but when Trump says something is "FAKE! TOTALLY FAKE!" I'm absolutely convinced it's got at least a few kernels of truth in there.

    Last edited by Jinsai; 09-21-2017 at 09:22 PM.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinsai View Post
    But he really has it out for CNN. Perhaps it's because they truly are the leftist equivalent of Fox at this point
    Pretty much. Maybe worse!

    http://www.salon.com/2014/04/28/cnn_...s_opportunity/

    https://www.theatlantic.com/entertai...-it-is/360020/

    http://guff.com/cnn-is-getting-great-at-being-the-worst

    Last edited by allegro; 09-21-2017 at 11:38 PM.

  9. #99
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    @allegro, I'm not that young (unfortunately).

    I agree that CNN takes a spin and they should be criticized for it. But what Fox does is different.

    CNN will unfortunately drag up some moronic dumbfuck to poorly and hyperbolically represent the right wing counterpoint to something, and then shout him/her down. I guess it's subjective that I think the people shouting him/her down are mostly correct. There's no way around that personal bias on some level, and it is obnoxious as fuck. And it is predictable fodder for a presumed liberal fanbase.

    Fox paved the way for this though. CNN does let intelligent people on their show, and they do let them write intelligent OPINION counter-arguments. We could dissect this article as comment-bait, sure, but it also lets a counterpoint enter the debate

    This doesn't happen on Fox or HuffPo. Fox only mirrors CNN in that they have (usually) two conservatives shout down a liberal. Fox often won't even let the person talk. And there's tons of instances where Fox reporters, live, have run away from interviewees who they found, to their shock, don't actually parrot their shit and feel the opposite way. Fox is more sensationalist, and I know we're scraping the barrel here with this general observation, but Fox is constantly in spin mode; never actually being objective. CNN is often objective.

    I hope that more people will call them out for presenting a milquetoast straw man as the Republican boogyman. Maybe they'll stop trying to be competition for satire. But they do deliver news. Unless I missed it, Fox has almost NEVER broken a story. CNN has on tons of occasions.

    I guess I've gotten used to splitting my bias feed from what I understand to be authentic news. I know when CNN is bullshitting me, but there's some gold in there. There's no fucking gold on Fox. Compare their current Twitter feeds.

    CNN: Truedeau is talking about climate change and makes a dig at the US
    CNN: a story about Boko Haram orphans, another story about Bangladesh's consideration of neighboring country hostility...
    CNN: a fluff piece about the Jimmy Kimmel rant on health care
    CNN: an article about Valerie Plame being shamed for re-tweeting an anti-semitic article
    CNN: an opinion piece about how Obamacare was good from Axelrod
    CNN: N. Korea's foreign minister warns his country could test hydrogen bomb over Trump's speech
    CNN: Sotomayer is concerned and in the dark about her family's status in Puerto Rico
    CNN: Melania is the most popular member of the Trump family

    FOX: The republicans who might actually help us destroy Obamacare
    FOX: Tucker Carlson weighing in on whether or not animal abusers should be registered similarly to sex-offenders
    FOX: UN Mission: 80 civilians dying in terror attacks daily in Afghanistan
    FOX: President Trump's approval ratings on the rise
    FOX: Hannity: There needs to be an investigation of "deep state leaks"
    FOX: Hannity: It's apparent in America there is a "two-tiered justice system"
    FOX: Tim Tebow helps out in hurricane relief
    FOX: something about how FLOTUS' pink outfit is being mocked, and that this never would have been accepted with the former FLOTUS
    FOX: Bono is a hater for hating on Trump
    FOX: The Left wants to talk to Rocket Man, but not Trump
    FOX: "No one on the left is taking on this bill, except Kimmel"

    I dunno... I see a distinction.

  10. #100
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  11. #101
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    fair enough, but I was talking about their twitter feeds... which it seems is how most people are following internet news clippings nowadays (to my chagrin).

    Honestly, those clips up there are more reasonable that what I usually see from them. Sometimes it's literally like "Trump is the best" "Trump haters suck and have a mental condition" "Trump hate is a disorder" "Trump's polls way up"

  12. #102
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    That's only what you see on the TV shows.

    CNN makes the same money from Trump sucks, people who like Trump are retarded, Trump sucks, Trump is in beeeeeeeg trouble, because he sucks.

    Cable news is just all total trash to me. It's like the Dancing With the Stars of news.

    I don't follow cable news on Twitter, either. I follow the New York Times and WaPo. And the Chicago Tribune and the New York Post.
    Last edited by allegro; 09-22-2017 at 12:02 AM.

  13. #103
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    no, I mean from their twitter feeds. I follow Fox. There's a pattern there. I don't have "TV" in the traditional sense anymore... or well, I guess, full disclosure, I do have access, but I don't remember the last time I watched it.

  14. #104
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    I only watch TV in the traditional sense.

    The only news I watch is local news shows.

    I watch cable news only when I want to laugh at the "news."

    I had to stop following sites like The Hill on Twitter because they're way over-the-top with sensationalism AND they re-tweet the same shit 800 times.
    Last edited by allegro; 09-22-2017 at 12:08 AM.

  15. #105
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    honestly, @allegro , I think you're in the minority there. I may be wrong, but I don't think most "Fox viewers" are directed to Fox articles and video clips via the traditional sense anymore. I even once got into a pointless argument with a Trump supporter on Twitter, who kept insisting they "don't watch any tv" because they had literally disconnected their cable, yet their entire Twitter feed was bloated with Fox News retweets.

  16. #106
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    So they're not watching TV, they're only reading certain Twitter feeds (and comments). That's not really Fox News. Twitter from Fox is just PR for Fox News. But some people ONLY get news from Twitter. And a LOT of them never even read the linked articles. They only read the tweet, and the comments, and that's it.

    I've seen John McCain tweet that he was gonna be on Fox and Friends to discuss military funding or whatever, then I read the comments.

    OH MY GOD.

    These Twitter people are fucking nuts.

    Almost as nuts as people on Facebook.
    Last edited by allegro; 09-22-2017 at 12:17 AM.

  17. #107
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    yes, the Twitter people are fucking nuts, but that's what I think news has devolved into. This is the REAL fake news, and it's how it's really disseminated.

    I think that's the distinction. People following CNN are more discerning, and are actually reading. Fox knows that their "viewers" aren't.

  18. #108
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    MSNBC/CNN have a point of view, and that's fine.

    FOX is just plain shit.

  19. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinsai View Post
    yes, the Twitter people are fucking nuts, but that's what I think news has devolved into. This is the REAL fake news, and it's how it's really disseminated.

    I think that's the distinction. People following CNN are more discerning, and are actually reading. Fox knows that their "viewers" aren't.
    That is just because you are biased. Because we are liberal and think all the smart people are liberal because they're like us. But I've seen a ton of REALLY stupid shit on CNN. So much that I refuse to watch it.

    Again, I'll take "Meet the Press" over all that other TV caca. It's the longest running television show in history. I really like Chuck Todd's interviews.

    Fox viewers read their news the same way the CNN viewers read their news: Facebook

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending Fox News. It's total shit.

    Especially shit like this:

    http://money.cnn.com/2017/08/10/medi...ine/index.html

    But CNN's coverage of the missing Malaysia flight was fucking ridiculous. WAVE PATTERN ANALYSIS.
    Last edited by allegro; 09-22-2017 at 01:09 AM.

  20. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    But CNN's coverage of the missing Malaysia flight was fucking ridiculous. WAVE PATTERN ANALYSIS.
    Yeah, that was hard to watch...

    The thing with me I guess is that I filter through all my news. I'll flip through the NYtimes, LAtimes, WaPo, Politico, Propublica, WSJ, CNN... they all carry crap, but some are obviously more serious sources of news. I'll even flip through Fox if I have time, but it tends to piss me off. Sure, bias. There's an aspect to their bias that I find really obnoxious, but it helps to understand where "the other side" is coming from. I don't touch Breitbart though, fuck that poison.

    I'll also listen to right wing talk radio in spurts when I'm driving around, but I can't handle it in traffic jams. It's confusing to try to figure out where everything started getting this insane. Someday, someone's going to figure that out, and it'll be turned into a book/epiphany. Until then, I've just been refining my filter... and that's the thing, I may make assumptions about the relative intelligence of people on the liberal side of things, but they seem to be, on a whole, more skeptical, critical thinkers. Of course, a ton of liberals are astoundingly stupid, and there's some smut-level internet spin drivel out there on both sides of the political aisle... it just seems like the crazy conspiracies about Republicans don't need to be fabricated.

    Do I REALLY think there's a piss-tape with Donald Trump and Russian hookers? No. Would I say it's possible. Of course. If there's one thing this administration has brought to light, it's that nothing is impossible. If I wake up one day to the news that there's actually a video going viral where Donald Trump is begging Russian hookers to piss on his orange face, I will struggle not to watch it... but I think my response, at that point, is probably going to be "huh, no shit... well, I can't say I'm surprised."

  21. #111
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    I think this video does a great job of explaining wtf is going on with the news system.




    I get most of my news from Dan Rather, Bill Maher, John Oliver, Washington Post, Politifacts, What the fuck Just Happened Today which aggregates top stories from different sources, google news, and a few others.
    Are those sources I just I listed biased, absolutely, but it's near impossible to find any news that doesn't have at least a little bias.
    It's the disingenuous and sensationalists news outlets that try to cover the fact that they are biased that I abhor, such as Fox News.
    In my opinion, those are not news stories but media, that have been feed and manufactured through a buzzword generator with the simple purpose to distract and misinform its viewers.

  22. #112
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    Internationally infamous fake-news writer Paul Horner dies in Phoenix

    The part that made me laugh:
    Maricopa County Sheriff's Office spokesman Sgt. Calbert Gillett told The Arizona Republic that Horner's death was still under investigation Monday and would not rule out foul play or impairment. He died in the Laveen area of southwest Phoenix.

    Horner's brother, JJ, said in a Facebook post that Paul Horner died peacefully and in his sleep.
    Conspiracy theories inside of conspiracy theories.

  23. #113
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    damn shame Al Jazeera America shut down. They had zilcho ratings, but were a great unbiased news source on TV. I wish I got BBC News. I primarily get my news now from TYT on Youtube. Cenk keeps it reals, and co-hosts like Ben Mank & Michael Shure add alot too. Ana is pretty to look at at least.

  24. #114
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    Sean Hannity lost 5 sponsors over defending Roy Moore. His trip to the NewsCorp gallows might be the best Christmas present I could hope for.

  25. #115
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    I remember reading an article (maybe it's in this thread, even?) about how Fox is on every TV everywhere and that's why so many people believe in them rather than someone else. Hell, I went to Ft. Lewis this weekend and while waiting for a day pass Fox was on the TV there. Jesus. I wish there was a channel that was just about the news and not talking heads but that's all we have now.

  26. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by onthewall2983 View Post
    Sean Hannity lost 5 sponsors over defending Roy Moore. His trip to the NewsCorp gallows might be the best Christmas present I could hope for.
    Hannity supporters are smashing their Keurig machine in support of him. I mean .. that will teach libs a lesson... smashing a $100 coffee machine.

  27. #117
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    Dan Harmon‏Verified account @danharmon Nov 12 Add to other Moment



    Dan Harmon Retweeted Angelo John Gage
    I just want to make sure i don’t miss the messaging. we’re smashing a thing we bought from a corporation that stopped advertising during a show that defended a politician accused of child molestation, and we want the guy that wrote Idiocracy to know we’re fans, is that accurate?
    https://twitter.com/danharmon/status/929766414063243264

  28. #118
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    It took them long enough but I've finally been banned from Inforwars. I had fun while it lasted. No clue what triggered the ban now. I could have been banned 1000x before.
    Anyways, I only have Breitbart left to argue against Trumpbots. BB cares too much about the number of daily visits to ban anyone from commenting on their site.

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