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Thread: Trump 2017: Year Zero

  1. #1681
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    WH wants to eliminate Meals on Wheels to seniors due to lack of "results." What in the living fuck?

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/n...316-story.html
    Military spending and border wall financing > all that other stuff

    They're testing blowback
    Last edited by Jinsai; 03-17-2017 at 04:16 AM.

  2. #1682
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    WH wants to eliminate Meals on Wheels to seniors due to lack of "results." What in the living fuck?

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/n...316-story.html
    Those old people aren't making Trump or his BFFs any richer, so he's not getting the results he wants. Makes sense to me.

  3. #1683
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    Oh yeah, 'privatize' it. Because these seniors have the money for it, right? Don't you think that if they could afford to pay for food, they wouldn't need meals on wheels to begin with?

  4. #1684
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    I really don't understand the idea that it has to be all one way or the other. There's plenty of private organizations that do a lot of charitable work and we're only better off by having public-funded organizations making up for where they fail and to have the opposite also happening. I've really got to wonder what degree of poverty and need the people that are all for gutting any and all social welfare programs have lived in -- I've been homeless and not known where I was going to be sleeping night to night and if it wasn't for so many public programs, including public school which guaranteed me two meals a day and a structure to my otherwise largely transient-at-the-time life, I don't know what would have happened to myself and my mother at the time. She was working six days a week and still couldn't make ends meet, and there were, luckily, just enough programs that were able to help us that we ended up okay.

    How many people don't get access to all of that? How is "privatize everything" the answer to problems like that? I was able to see a doctor because of school-provided healthcare when I was dealing with a very, very severe case of the flu. That saved me. What would have happened if I hadn't had access to that? How many kids never get it and suffer greatly? There's a real lack of humanity and empathy and general basic fucking care for other people's lives that I see whenever the "privatize it all!" attitude comes up from Conservatives and Libertarians and it's so disturbing to me.

  5. #1685
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    Trump refused to shake Merkel's hand. Probably doesn't respect the fact that a woman is a leader of a country.


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  7. #1687
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    Right? I post that moving it to the state level or privatizing it are much better options than having fed programs. Then @allegate focuses entirely on the privatizing half as being the only thing I said and as if that half is somehow impossible.

    Of course, it would be a lot easier for private orgs to feed the homeless if shit like this didn't happen: Try to Feed the Homeless and the Food Police Will Bleach Your BBQ
    What's that? I focused on one part of your post and ignored the rest? I have no idea what you're talking about. I don't know anyone at all who does stuff like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    Where do you think the money comes from? Do you REALLY think something like Meals on Wheels can only function if the money comes directly from the federal government? (and thus from people's pockets via taxes)

    Here is something that will shock you: NOT EVEN MEALS ON WHEELS WORKS THIS WAY. Yup. The majority of Meals on Wheels funding comes from individual and corporate donations. Only 3% of it comes from fed grants. You are crying about 3% and acting like it is 100%. You are acting like that fed funding is the ONLY way Meals on Wheels can survive.

    http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/16/politi...get-blueprint/
    "About 3% of the budget for Meals on Wheels' national office comes from government grants (84% comes from individual contributions and grants from corporations and foundations)"
    No, I'm crying about 3% being cut like that 3% is going to be the difference in the budget for that 345th stealth bomber.

  8. #1688
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    republican's continued war upon the poor,WWSD?
    -louie

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    Even though he's an awful Taoiseach, Enda Kenny dragging Trump in front of the press yesterday was wonderful.

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    Urgh that Trump/Merkel video is awkward.

    but Angela Merkel represents everything Trump (or Bannon) hates.....about the modern world..

    Open boarders...globalism...he was so vocal against what she did in 2015...he said she RUINED her country....she has been one of his biggest targets..

    As much as i disagree with him...this video at least proves he does has some sort of ideological motives other than money.

  11. #1691
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    pay attention:
    While you were distracted by his tweets, over 2,000 new bills have been introduced to Congress since Trump took office.
    -Louie

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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    Move it to the state level.

    Or privatize it.
    If either were an option, it would have been done, to reach out to more of the aged community, long ago. The latter only happens when profit is involved. Corporate donations are a write-off for that corporation. MoW is already its own private entity, it's not a government organization. But Federal funding is to cover the shortage that it often experiences, PLUS it saves the government bigger Medicaid expenses. The former isn't possible in many states that already have huge budget deficits, like Illinois. MoW helps save the State and Federal governments money by keeping the aged at home instead of them being in nursing homes on Medicaid (which costs a LOT more).

    That is why Mulvaney is totally full of shit. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...317-story.html

    The WH and Republicans are wringing their hands over the national deficit, and the WH wants to cut these type of expenses plus the EPA (AS IF HUNDREDS OF KIDS WITH LEAD POISONING IN FLINT ISN'T A BIG ENOUGH LESSON WHY A DOLLAR SAVED ON THIS KIND OF SHIT LEADS TO BIG BIG TROUBLE) but forget that the primary REASONS our debt is so high is due to TRILLIONS spent on wars in Iraq and Afghanistan over more than a decade, plus bailing out the country from one of the biggest recessions in history due to THEIR lack of regulations related to securities-backed loans. It's like leaving Grandma out in the forest to die because you spent too much money at the casino.

    The idea that the Federal government should not pay for anything and that each state should, instead, only works if we pay the majority of our income taxes to the state instead of the Feds. But we don't. The vast majority of our income taxes goes to the Feds.

    Meanwhile, THE MAJORITY of my property taxes goes to schools. I don't have any kids. Never did, never will. But I'm PAYING FOR THEM. $5,000 per year of my money goes to kids I don't have in schools that don't make these kids much smarter, since the whole education system has been so dumbed down that we're churning out kids who wouldn't get accepted into the average college 40 years ago. Why can't I get a REFUND? An EXEMPTION? I don't care, make you PARENTS pay for your own kids, split the expense among all of you. Hey, if we can't manage to pay for old people, ain't no good reason for me to pay for your offspring, either. Throw morality out the door and focus strictly on our individual expenses.

    We have the right to DEMAND that the Feds be AUDITED to see how they are REALLY spending OUR MONEY, especially when they claim that feeding old people with OUR MONEY just "doesn't work" even though those old people put hard-earned money into Federal pockets for 50+ years.

    Anyway, the WH budget is for shit. The President doesn't make budgets; CONGRESS does.
    Last edited by allegro; 03-18-2017 at 04:37 PM.

  13. #1693
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    Meanwhile, THE MAJORITY of my property taxes goes to schools. I don't have any kids. Never did, never will. But I'm PAYING FOR THEM. $5,000 per year of my money goes to kids I don't have in schools that don't make these kids much smarter, since the whole education system has been so dumbed down that we're churning out kids who wouldn't get accepted into the average college 40 years ago. Why can't I get a REFUND? An EXEMPTION? I don't care, make you PARENTS pay for your own kids, split the expense among all of you. Hey, if we can't manage to pay for old people, ain't no good reason for me to pay for your offspring, either. Throw morality out the door and focus strictly on our individual expenses.
    I just wrote out a big long thing that expanded on that and just really went total shit-show, doomsday, "we couldn't possibly be any more fucked". Then I realized it's just so damn hard to convey sarcasm that some people might not have gotten it. So instead, just gonna say thanks.

  14. #1694
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    it already IS being done. As I mentioned above, only 3% of MoW's national funding is from what Trump is cutting.
    Yes, and I even provided a link that says that. *shrug* The vast majority of funding comes from religious-group funding. But losing that 3% means THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE being affected in each state. So, then what? CAT FOOD!!

    In Illinois, here's our Republican Governor's proposed budget. The problem is that a HUGE amount of our debt goes to PENSIONS. But, people, sorry to say, but pensions are GOING THE WAY OF THE DODO BIRD. Even Air Traffic Controllers don't get old-fashioned pensions, anymore, which were ended by Reagan; instead, they get a hybrid of Social Security combined with a 401K-style pension system. Which is the way of the future. Get used to it. Change is coming. Deal with it.

    In Flint, the Governor and the State diverted the water supply from Lake Huron and started using the polluted Flint River, instead, using an antiquated pipe system that contained lead, without alerting the EPA, first, of the proposed changes, and then LIED by insisting that the lead levels were "totally safe" until pediatricians started reporting that kids had HUGE lead levels in their blood. And the EPA has been SO underfunded for decades, it's totally lost its mojo. We need to INCREASE oversight. Each State needs to be held accountable with fines for violating clean water and lead violations. Actually, fuck making state taxpayers accountable: MAKE THE INDIVIDUAL DECISION-MAKERS ACCOUNTABLE. Fine THEM, send them to fucking JAIL.

    The EPA just announced money YESTERDAY to upgrade the Flint water supply infrastructure. Flint hasn't had safe water since 2014. Kids still have to be bathed in store-bought water. The problem isn't expected to be solved until at least 2018. It's like camping ... FOR FOUR FUCKING YEARS.

    When I said "The Fed" I didn't mean the JUST Federal Reserve: I meant ALL OF THE FEDS. The Federal Government's budget, spending, etc. Audit ALL OF IT. THE WHOLE FUCKING THING.

    I think we should have independent non-partisan reviews of every budget and bill that is ever proposed, with line-by-line analysis, conducted by actual CPAs and economic experts, and not those snake-charmer morons in Washington. I believe that this should also happen on a State and Municipal level.

    When I retire (later this year), I TOTALLY plan to run a blog that publicly exposes the minutes from every single City board meeting from my City, for easy transparency. Right now, these are published but they're BURIED in so much crap on the Municipal web site, nobody except somebody like me, with certification in legal research, is likely to ever find the shit.

    "Oh, hey, look at this: The City just decided to spend ONE MILLION DOLLARS on FLOWERS for the median downtown district. FOR FLOWERS THAT WILL FUCKING DIE. Oh, and with NO BIDS! Hmmmmm, I wonder if my fellow citizens know about this. NOT LIKELY." <--true story.

    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    You know who has a the best idea on how to allocate your money? You! So the more influence you get on the allocation of your money, the better. The closer to "federal" you get, the less influence you have. And hey, maybe your state would fix its own budgetary problems if enough of the the locals gave a shit about local politics... maybe incentivizing them to give a shit by making it clear that its the local, not POTUS, who has the bulk of the influence on their lives would be a good start there.
    Well, you KNOW that I'm already on board with this, I've been saying it for 13 years on this board.

    I have a cheat sheet all planned out: 4 School Board seats are up for grabs, and our local election is in April. I'm choosing the candidates that best serve my views as a property owner WITHOUT kids who is interested in realistic planning, knowing that a good school system affects my property value, but also that we can't have the convenience of too many schools in a city where 65% of the citizens don't have kids and a huge number are senior citizens on fixed incomes who've lived here for nearly 50 years; we have to close a few schools, and focus the money where it will be better spent on the continuation of the dual-language program, the inclusion of humanities programs, smaller class sizes, etc. and not on "oh my kid only walks a block to a school that's half-full."
    Last edited by allegro; 03-18-2017 at 01:10 PM.

  15. #1695
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    More oversight is good, but Federal doesn't have to be that oversight. In many situations, they do shit work and are insanely inefficient.
    States have oversight, but state government is sometimes corrupted by high-level greed that goes all the way down to the bottom. Example: The GREED in Michigan that resulted in the Flint water crisis was totally bipartisan, with contract workers only interested in "what's in it for me?" $$$ results and not the people living in poverty in Flint. Remember, Flint had already gone broke and was bankrupt and the State was overseeing Flint's finances. The Flint mayor had ZERO power, the Flint voters had zero power, the State was running Flint carte blanch doing whatever it wanted, making STUPID decisions, then lying about it to the oversight of the EPA and fighting the EPA, using the loophole of an old law that wasn't intended to poison children. The Governor should be in JAIL; at least the EPA is finally helping to protect the citizens of Flint, who have the right to clean water and life.
    Last edited by allegro; 03-19-2017 at 12:06 AM.

  16. #1696
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    turns out actual problem solving is hard work, it take long hours of planning running endless what if scenarios data collection and analysis waiting for fact based results, it's a lot easier and faster to just blame the "other" guy which is why we'll see much more of the same until the end
    -Louie

  17. #1697
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    @allegro - what aspect of governance allowed IL to be so corrupt? And more importantly, what's so special about the Federal govt that would prevent that same type of corruption?

    And since I am trying to understand a seemingly disconnected logic, let's throw in: why is stopping other states from becoming as corrupt as IL?
    Illinois isn't corrupt.

  18. #1698
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    Sorry. Michigan.
    The "state government is sometimes corrupted by high level greed that goes all the way to the bottom" bit that you said.
    I already said why in a prior post.

    I am not bothering to get into this circle jerk with you. I don't have the time nor energy. You never "try to understand" anything. You just pontificate.

    I'm over this thread.

    Edit: Except this:

    Last edited by allegro; 03-19-2017 at 07:45 AM.

  19. #1699
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    And yet, over 62 million people literally went "yes, he's more qualified for the job than someone with a law degree from Yale and decades of political experience" - AFTER somehow also deciding he was more qualified than every Republican he was up against in the primary (the fact that Kasich was basically ignored because he was the only one speaking calmly and intelligently during debates drove me crazy).

    I want to laugh at the memes, but it's both scary and depressing to realize that it's not just a fluke that he's the one in charge. He really is an appropriate symbol of how bad things have gotten in this country.

  20. #1700
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    you guys are being silly. so hypocritical.

  21. #1701
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    To the others here besides ^^ smug Libertardian upper-middle-class asshole:

    Here's what's the HUD block grant program is about (which the WH proposes be totally eliminated, but is not likely to pass the House or Senate; it has received bipartisan support since it was signed it into law in 1975).

  22. #1702
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    as brother bob once said, "a hungry mob is an angry mob"! keep cutting and taking from the poor, you might want to electrify, thise gates to you community.
    -Louie

  23. #1703
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    Get your Benghazi on guys. Something something moral high ground.
    Ok.... So one of these things is an overblown scandal about the handling of an embassy attack, and whether or not the explanation was a fabricated smoke screen to dodge culpability...

    And here, on the other hand, we have a disagreement about a social program potentially being cut under the reasoning that it is ineffective and falls by the wayside to help control our spending, even though it makes up a pitiful drop in the ocean, and we're currently ramping up our military spending despite already spending more than the next ten countries on the list combined...

    This is not how you balance a budget, but while we're at it, can I ask what the fuck you're comparing those two things up there for? One is a hyped scandal meant to discredit a potential nominee for the president, and the other is a criticism of a stupid decision being placed on the table by the people currently sitting in control of everything. False equivalency much?

    You can't go around just axing programs that don't fit into your personal priorities list (which is a fucking insane list of priorities) just based on how much you don't give a shit about them personally, and with no consideration to what chunk of the pie they're actually taking up. Killing Meals on Wheels because we have a spending problem is like... if someone is really out of shape because they eat pizza every day, never exercise, smoke crack, and every fifteenth Saturday they eat a single gum drop as a guilty pleasure... and then, for a New Years resolution, they give up the gum drop... because really, over enough time, they'll have saved up enough money abstaining from buying gum drops to pay for the crack.

  24. #1704
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    Overhyped "nothing burgers" apply to both. Then it turns into "boy who cried wolf" after enough of them happen.

    I don't like Trump. But I'm going to focus on the things that truly stand out. Ramping up the military budget is standout and undebatable. I think doing that is bad. Turning the focus to MoW's tiny cut through a funding dependency? lol please

    Read the MoJo article I linked to if you need evidence on just how much digging and magnifying was done to focus on such a trivially small thing that is the MoW cut.
    I read it before you linked it.

    I'm calling false equivalency on the issues you're equivocating. You're carrying on a "devil's advocate" trope where you try to conflate the complaints on both sides of the aisle while heralding your middle-of-the-road indifference; smirking in the corner the whole time. You don't get why that sucks, and that's fine I guess.

    It is obnoxious though, even if you personally feel you're trying to shine a light on a legitimate complaint that this liberally leaning page is ignoring. I've heard better arguments to consider the other side than that.

    Turning the spotlight to things like Meals on Wheels, or NPR funding... that's addressing a LARGE issue related to TINY spending. I don't get how you're missing that.

  25. #1705
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    This is the funniest thing right now.

    So many perfect layers.

    Just.... what the fuck? Can we get a link to something less meme-ish? My google-fu is usually pretty good but I'm at a loss here

    I would add, I guess, that I could give NOT ONE SINGLE FUCK about what Clinton has to say at this point, and I'm sick of hearing about what she did or what she's doing in the current context, because like it or not, she is politically DONE on the main stage... but you brought her up so WTF is your point?
    Last edited by Jinsai; 03-20-2017 at 03:55 AM.

  26. #1706
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    So is a bunch of people dying in Benghazi not an issue then?
    The MoW cut wouldn't have made anyone's radar if Obama did it. Where was the outrage when Obama recommended a $200mil cut to these programs last year?
    No, it's an issue, the blame just doesn't fall squarely where the people who made it into an issue insinuated it did...

    And so, a bunch of people who thought Benghazi was the place where the cartoon Alladin took place were suddenly concerned about it and thought it should be bombed, and then found their biggest current political hurdle was not saying the word "Agrabah"

    The people who couldn't shut the fuck up about Benghazi STILL couldn't point it out on a map if you put a gun to their head and offered them a million dollars to get it within a thousand miles. AND YOU KNOW THAT

  27. #1707
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    And the people who were crying about MoW had no idea how it was funded or how much was impacted. Every single person I heard from initially thought the entire program was cut.
    Another FALSE. EQUIVALENCY.

    Stop trying to fill in the Devil's Advocate role here man. It can get obnoxious.

    Just to note.... in case I'm going to be called out for a shifting goal post here... No, people expressing alarm about an issue that is facing impending potential treatment are not in any way comparable to people hypothesizing about conspiratorial roles.

    I mean, listen to yourself!!! You are basically saying "Guys, LOL, you're all worried that the current out-of-control administration is going to cut funding to stuff you like, but hey, look, a while back you guys cut stuff, random stuff, and also, you wanted to do other stuff... none of this stuff is related to the stuff you're upset about, but hey, it's stuff. Also, how is the stuff, which is pretty clearly defined and up for vote, any different from stuff that's a bunch of vague hyperbolic accusations about a completely unrelated issue?"

    YOU brought up Benghazi in this conversation.
    Last edited by Jinsai; 03-20-2017 at 04:18 AM.

  28. #1708
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    Obama's coffee cup salute.
    Hillary's email.
    Etc

    They all fit into the same bucket from what I am looking at. Way way overplayed. Not sure how to demonstrate it any further.

    If you think the MoW angle wasn't massively overplayed, then we will just have to disagree.
    Wait, are you drawing equivalence between "the coffee cup salute" and a decision to cut funding for a program aimed at aiding the elderly when it comes to appropriated outrage?
    I.... Are you kidding me?

    If the Meals on Wheels angle is overplayed, it's only because the counterpoint from people like you is being WAY overstated in its diminishment of the complaint.

    Some things don't matter... like whether or not Obama puts mustard on his burger. Some things matter, like funding for things that matter, especially when it's a drop in the bucket relatively.

    If you have such an indifferent hard-on for this issue, how about getting behind the opposition to things that must not be defunded? I can already hear you saying something about doing it on a state level, but Planned Parenthood? Everyone paying attention knows that abortions (outside of issues involving rape or incest or relating to the potential health of the mother) are not getting federal funding... but rather, that funds are allocated to reimburse PP for preventative medical health services, and these do not include willful abortions.

    Yet Trump is threatening PP with "defunding" those reimbursements if they don't stop providing services that are not covered by federal funding.

    Is this another "craaaaazy NON issue" ?

    Get off the "You guys are making a big deal out of nothing" soap box and possibly consider that some of these points matter.... just for a second.
    Last edited by Jinsai; 03-20-2017 at 04:36 AM.

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    Even if cutting arts programs and MoW programs are symbolic, we absolutely are right to be outraged by what that represents. It's like this budget was made by my racist uncle over thanksgiving dinner: we don't need those snowflake artsy programs, pump that good money into our military, because Obama made us a laughing stock of the world and ain't no one is afraid us anymore! Get more nukes!

    Fuck that!

    Yes, it's only 3% of the funding, but for a struggling service, 3% is a LOT.

    Nobody can seriously argue that our military is not already fuckin' well funded! It's a monster!

    And of course the real issue is the WHY. The general impression is that Trump is gearing up for WAR, which would be the only way he could cement his power. It's hard to replace a president during an active wartime crisis, and this man is not out there to keep peace.
    Last edited by hellospaceboy; 03-20-2017 at 05:33 AM.

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    On a slightly unrelated note, just to illustrate how fuckin' dumb some people are, I was talking to a coworker yesterday who bitched about how Obama didn't do universal healthcare. And he said: "this Obamacare was just a mandatory tax."

    I was like... whaaa?!?!

    Universal healthcare IS a fuckin' tax! That's how it works. It blew my mind.

    (disclaimer: I know the ACA wasn't perfect and it wasn't universal heath care, the joke is that this guy complained that it was a tax based system when it comes down to it)

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