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Thread: Trump 2017: Year Zero

  1. #4081
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    @allegro I don't know if you caught SNL last night but they did reference that Sarah Huckabee Sanders speech on taxes about the ten people drinking beer at the bar. I knew it was going to make its way into a skit.

    http://www.billboard.com/articles/ne...i-lovato-video

    this was the only full video I could find scroll down a bit.
    Last edited by Sister Midnight; 11-05-2017 at 02:08 PM.

  2. #4082
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sister Midnight View Post
    I know why he calls her "Pocahontas" I still think the tone and the way he is using it is derogatory to the Native American community.

    This is something else I don't understand about Trump, Where is the outrage?????

    I have been reading the threads in "Speak Your Mind" and I agree if you have sexually assaulted somebody you should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Weinstein will never work in Hollywood again, a lot of people are saying Kevin Spacey's career is over, Jeordie White is fired from Manson but 17 women have accused Trump of sexual assault, he even admitted on tape of grabbing a woman's private parts and he still gets to be president? What the fuck?
    look I would with time say, look Pocahontas was an American pioneer that forged this great nation of ours. What have you done other than lose all the money daddy gave you, mic drop
    -Louie

  3. #4083
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    Of all the potential people to run I think senator Al Franken could verbally fuck up Trump in a debate and make it funny.

  4. #4084
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sister Midnight View Post
    Of all the potential people to run I think senator Al Franken could verbally fuck up Trump in a debate and make it funny.
    This is one of the problems with modern US politics. It's treated as celebrity gossip and reality tv. One-liners and soundbytes carefully arranged to entertain you while they lead you by the nose all the way down to the polling stations.

  5. #4085
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    Trump 2017: Year Zero

    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    Trump calls Warren “Pocahontas” because ...

    Well, here, read this article: http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/29/politi...tas/index.html
    I already knew why. It doesn’t make him any less disgusting.

  6. #4086
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweeterthan View Post
    I already knew why. It doesn’t make him any less disgusting.


    Well yeah he’s awful but he’s being totally sarcastic by calling her that. And it’s her fault. She is not perfect, I dunno where the hell she was going with that.

    It’s like @DigitalChaos said, like calling Rachel Dolezal “Angela Davis” or whatever. It’s not a dis on blacks, it’s a dis on her for pretending to be black. And Warren ain’t Native American, either. “Stories” about it don’t make it real.

    Anyway ... in other news ...

    Why the hell did Rand Paul’s neighbor assault him?! Wtf
    Last edited by allegro; 11-05-2017 at 06:21 PM.

  7. #4087
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demogorgon View Post
    This is one of the problems with modern US politics. It's treated as celebrity gossip and reality tv. One-liners and soundbytes carefully arranged to entertain you while they lead you by the nose all the way down to the polling stations.
    I can talk issues with you all day long but that is not what the public responds to, and the media is looking for soundbytes and one-liners that was election 2016. That is also why we have a reality TV star in the White House. So get ready for President Kardashian.

  8. #4088
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sister Midnight View Post
    I can talk issues with you all day long but that is not what the public responds to, and the media is looking for soundbytes and one-liners that was election 2016. That is also why we have a reality TV star in the White House. So get ready for President Kardashian.

  9. #4089
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    When did I become Tiffany Trump?

    You can add Clintons and Warrens mistakes, blunders and fuck ups together and it doesn't come close to the treasonous bastard that is Trump. If you want to see Trump in a second term then you are part of the problem. If the DNC is the cancer then the RNC is the ebola virus.

  10. #4090
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sister Midnight View Post
    I can talk issues with you all day long but that is not what the public responds to, and the media is looking for soundbytes and one-liners that was election 2016. That is also why we have a reality TV star in the White House. So get ready for President Kardashian.
    That's exactly the point I was making. Further, if you support these kinds of games by wanting someone to out-asshole an asshole in a debate, then you're buying into the shit sandwich and asking for seconds.

    Just because the machine is the way it is, it doesn't mean we have to join the in with the rest of the cogs. You want to avoid another Trump? Stop letting politics pass itself off as entertainment.

  11. #4091
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demogorgon View Post
    That's exactly the point I was making. Further, if you support these kinds of games by wanting someone to out-asshole an asshole in a debate, then you're buying into the shit sandwich and asking for seconds.

    Just because the machine is the way it is, it doesn't mean we have to join the in with the rest of the cogs. You want to avoid another Trump? Stop letting politics pass itself off as entertainment.
    Yeah but you are telling the wrong person, you need to get that point across to the media and the majority of the US voters and chances are no one is going to listen to you. I'm not saying your point is wrong, I am saying the current situation with US politics has become just what you are describing.

    However in this new age of soundbytes and a 140 characters it is only going to get worse. Trump is nothing more then an internet troll, an inept carnival barker who barely understands the world around him, and a heckler. So if you can't change the game then you got to beat him at his own game and who better to take out a heckler then somebody from the world of comedy.
    Last edited by Sister Midnight; 11-05-2017 at 09:35 PM.

  12. #4092
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    Honestly, if Trump is what we have now, I hate to think who the fuck we have in line for the next few administrations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ton View Post
    Honestly, if Trump is what we have now, I hate to think who the fuck we have in line for the next few administrations.
    Well I hope the next president is somebody who understands the job and has a background in law or politics. Somebody that can carry themselves with grace, humility and a quiet dignified manner that can restore the office of President.

  14. #4094
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sister Midnight View Post
    Well I hope the next president is somebody who understands the job and has a background in law or politics. Somebody that can carry themselves with grace, humility and a quiet dignified manner that can restore the office of President.
    I do too. It's just that recent months have made me such a cynical person, to the point where I have no optimism. I should be optimistic still in spite of all things.

  15. #4095
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    Quote Originally Posted by ton View Post
    I do too. It's just that recent months have made me such a cynical person, to the point where I have no optimism. I should be optimistic still in spite of all things.
    There is a large portion of this country that is sick of Trump and all of his antics, its only been 10 months. Its exhausting, the twitter tantrums, the constant drama the waking up every morning before checking my phone or computer and wondering if we are in a nuclear war with North Korea. This is what happens when you elect somebody who is unqualified for the job, he is unfit for the office of president. We still have three years to go, and I feel the Mueller investigation will still be going on in 2020. It is a really sad state of affairs, but one thing this country loves to do is to build somebody up and then knock them down. Trump will eventually crash and burn I just hope he doesn't take the whole country or even worse the world with him.

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    26 people were shot and killed in Texas, and president jackass says that it's not a guns issue, and that 'Fortunately somebody else had a gun'.

    This is what the NRA has been saying for ages, that good guys with guns will stop bad guys with guns. But the bad guy with a gun, in a situation where we were "fortunate" that a good guy had a gun, still resulted in 26 innocent people being killed.

    How on earth is "good guy with a gun" a solution?!?!?!?!?

  17. #4097
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    It’s likely that the Texas church shooter had an ILLEGAL gun (a gun he was not legally allowed to have) since he was court martialled and served a year in military prison for domestic violence against his wife and child. There is a FEDERAL law that would prevent him from having a gun or ammo due to those domestic abuse / assault charges. Now it ends up that his TARGETS were linked to a “domestic situation.”

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.5d1b7abdc810

    There is no way we can prevent this. We try ... ALL THE TIME ... we have laws against this, but it happens anyway.
    Last edited by allegro; 11-06-2017 at 11:22 AM.

  18. #4098
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    Fuck that. I will not accept it. More can be done. More should be done but it won’t with that kind of attitude. I say the 2a crowd needs to step up and own gun safety and gun restrictions. They won’t and nothing will be done. I’m so fucking done with idea that gun control won’t help. No one needs an ar period. If you feel that infringes on your rights some how, fuck off. What about my right to live with our fear of some asshole shooting me and my family? Life and liberty were before the stupid 2nd amendment but for some reason gun rights supersede every other right in this country.




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  19. #4099
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    We HAVE regulations, STRONG ones. I had an Order of Protection against my former spouse, he violated it, he was found guilty of a misdemeanor and it voided his FOID card. But I see women in the same situation shot and killed here all the time. There are laws there to protect us, but criminals don’t give a fuck about laws.

    I don’t like “assault” weapons (guns like the AR-14, AK-47, Glock, etc.) but I do realize that it’s way too late to fix that. They are currently banned in my city; but will that stop people who already had one? Or buy one in Indiana? Or buy one from a friend? There are MILLIONS of them out there. And you can now PRINT one.

    Banning them would be like banning the Ford F-150. We’d have to raid every individual residence in the country and conduct an illegal search and seizure (illegal because it would violate rules requiring reasonable cause). We can require waiting periods, classes, up the fees ... but this guy had an ILLEGAL GUN. The Sandy Hook shooter? He STOLE the guns which were locked up in a cabinet.

    We are a VIOLENT country. Although, not as violent as countries in Central America.

    I liken this to drunk driving. In 2015, 10,265 people died in alcohol-impaired driving crashes, accounting for nearly one-third (29%) of all traffic-related deaths in the United States . We have strict laws against drunk driving. Illinois has REALLY strict laws against drunk driving. After a 2nd conviction, you are often required to equip your vehicle with a "breath alcohol ignition interlock device" to drive to your job, etc., which requires you to breath into it before the ignition starts; if you blow over the limit, the car won't start. BUT, I've been in court where people used A FRIEND to breath into the fucking thing. I've seen people DRIVE TO COURT for their 5th or 6th DUI conviction, even though their license was long-ago revoked. They get let out of jail or prison early due to overcrowding. Why the FUCK can't we at least prevent or stop THAT? 10,265 people died due to stupid drunks on the road, but it gets relatively little news coverage, demanding that we stop it. Maybe because we know we can't?
    Last edited by allegro; 11-06-2017 at 11:59 AM.

  20. #4100
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    I feel like prohibition kind of was the 'we said all we can say' for alcohol.

  21. #4101
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    It's not the same though, gun laws work and have been proven highly effective in many other countries.

    You probably could get rid of drunk driving deaths if you banned alcohol too, but nobody's talking about doing that, because alcohol has purposes beyond drunk driving, and additionally, even the drunk driver didn't mean to kill people. They still did it, and still need to be held accountable for it, but they weren't planning to hurt anyone.

    There is no hunting purpose for an assault weapon, there is no safety reason to have an assault weapon, there is no reason for an average citizen to own a weapon that has no reasonable application outside of military combat. Reasonable gun control laws WORK. The US is refusing to even discuss them.

  22. #4102
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    Quote Originally Posted by eskimo View Post
    It's not the same though, gun laws work and have been proven highly effective in many other countries.

    You probably could get rid of drunk driving deaths if you banned alcohol too, but nobody's talking about doing that, because alcohol has purposes beyond drunk driving, and additionally, even the drunk driver didn't mean to kill people. They still did it, and still need to be held accountable for it, but they weren't planning to hurt anyone.

    There is no hunting purpose for an assault weapon, there is no safety reason to have an assault weapon, there is no reason for an average citizen to own a weapon that has no reasonable application outside of military combat. Reasonable gun control laws WORK. The US is refusing to even discuss them.
    That’s not true.

    First, as @allegate mentioned, we DID ban alcohol, for many years; and it was a disaster, with gangs and guns protecting the bootleg trade, so we reversed it. Most states HAVE strict laws including laws related to “assault” weapons; we even BANNED them from 1994 - 2004.

    Democrats has a super-majority in 2008; the President and Congress were Democrats. They could have passed a PERMANENT assault weapons ban, without the sunset clause that was in the prior AWB. They didn't. Perhaps because the Dems lost most elections after the ban in 1994? Stats show the vast majority of shootings in the U.S. are actually attributed to handguns.

    The drunk who drives is worse than not planning to hurt anyone; he doesn’t CARE if he hurts or kills anyone.

    But, laws are a DETERRENT; they don’t and can’t prevent anything.

    Again, I don't own an "assault" weapon, I don't see a use for them, but maybe because I've been in law for so long and have that logic ingrained in my head I know that the strictest laws possible still won't prevent this. Sure, maybe it's worth a shot (no pun intended) but to scream BAN THEM when the current ones will simply be grandfathered in (they will), and the guy in Texas got guns when he wasn't supposed to have a gun can't and won't prevent this shit.

    I honestly don't have an answer, sometimes there just isn't an answer that is tangible.

    Here is a good article.
    Last edited by allegro; 11-06-2017 at 01:15 PM.

  23. #4103
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    That’s not true.

    First, as @allegate mentioned, we DID ban alcohol, for many years; and it was a disaster, with gangs and guns protecting the bootleg trade, so we reversed it. Most states HAVE strict laws including laws related to “assault” weapons; we even BANNED them from 1994 - 2004.

    Democrats has a super-majority in 2008; the President and Congress were Democrats. They could have passed a PERMANENT assault weapons ban, without the sunset clause that was in the prior AWB. They didn't. Perhaps because the Dems lost most elections after the ban in 1994? Stats show the vast majority of shootings in the U.S. are actually attributed to handguns.

    The drunk who drives is worse than not planning to hurt anyone; he doesn’t CARE if he hurts or kills anyone.

    But, laws are a DETERRENT; they don’t and can’t prevent anything.

    Again, I don't own an "assault" weapon, I don't see a use for them, but maybe because I've been in law for so long and have that logic ingrained in my head I know that the strictest laws possible still won't prevent this. Sure, maybe it's worth a shot (no pun intended) but to scream BAN THEM when the current ones will simply be grandfathered in (they will), and the guy in Texas got guns when he wasn't supposed to have a gun can't and won't prevent this shit.

    I honestly don't have an answer, sometimes there just isn't an answer that is tangible.

    Here is a good article.
    I think they do work, and I think they are effective, here's a great article with many examples:
    https://www.bustle.com/p/what-are-gu...n-from-2801048

    No, none of them are 100% effective, but just because we can't stop every gun related death doesn't mean we shouldn't do what we can. The US has a serious gun problem, and it needs to be dealt with.

    These things happen with such regularity in the USA, that it's terrifying and horrific. New legislation needs to be passed to stop this. Ban the assult rifles, make the background checks stricter, just look at the examples of all the other countries who are doing far better with guns than the USA is, and follow their lead.

  24. #4104
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    Quote Originally Posted by eskimo View Post
    I think they do work, and I think they are effective
    Yes, they do work but we don't see them working because we don't know how existing laws have already stopped people; nobody knows that exact data.

    The problem that people seem to forget is we are a REPUBLIC, one nation made up of 50 individual governments and each of those 50 individual governments have individual rights that our founding fathers deliberately intended to protect state's rights in our Constitution and its subsequent Amendments, it's how our entire country is structured. So, "national" gun laws relate only to the ATF.

    What journalists aren't considering when offering how we might "learn from other nations" is our Constitution and the 2nd Amendment clearly giving states the rights to their own laws but see also the TENTH AMENDMENT.

    See also HAMILTON VS. JEFFERSON.

    Here, this explains it a little re guns.

    See also this.

    Seven states and the District of Columbia have enacted laws banning assault weapons. The others are California, Hawaii, Maryland, Massachusetts and New Jersey, according to the Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence. In addition, Minnesota and Virginia regulate assault weapons, the center said.
    And that doesn't count all of the individual municipalities that have banned AWs including the City where I live where the U.S. Supreme Court effectively upheld the AWB by refusing to hear the case against the ban. (A decision explained by the Heller SCOTUS decision but ALSO in the interest of state's rights.)

    The stricter gun laws are happening on a state-by-state, municipality-by-municipality level, and even THEN it's not totally preventing violence. The San Bernadino shooters used weapons obtained and owned illegally in the State of California.

    But we ARE seeing more and more regulations, more and more bans, just not the FEDS controlling all of the guns etc.

    The Feds already DO limit weapons to a certain extent, then the states and municipalities take over.

    We can look at data from the 1994-2004 Federal assault ban weapon for guidance, but that data does not include the MILLIONS of AWs that were purchased after the expiration through today. Because any AW legislation would not mean confiscating any currently-owned AWs, it could take the lifetime of those weapons (until they are so old that they are no longer useful or functional) to see the positive affects, if any, and even then people are -- as previously stated -- now using 3D printers to print their own AWs without serial numbers or any ability to track them.

    HERE IS A LIST of gun related deaths by 100,000 per year. The U.S. is #11 on the list for total gun deaths. It's #18 on the list for number of gun-related homicides. The U.S. is #1 on the list of privately-owned guns.

    In the United States, the percentage of households with one or more guns is reported to be 31.0% (2014).

    Now compare that to the United Kingdom. It's not like they don't own any guns (relative to the population); it's that they don't SHOOT each other.

    The Texas Church shooter:

    1) Had a gun even though he was (FEDERALLY) barred from buying or owning a gun or ammo per the LAUTENBERG AMENDMENT which was upheld by the SCOTUS as recent as 2014 (BUT ... SEE THIS ARTICLE).

    2) Had a gun IN CHURCH which is barred by Texas law


    And ... we have an ENTIRE THREAD devoted to this subject so this is really drift in this thread.
    Last edited by allegro; 11-06-2017 at 02:55 PM.

  25. #4105
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    I’m reading that he was able to purchase the guns. Somewhere something failed. That’s why I’m saying we need the 2a crowd to step up and take responsibility. Shit is out of control and they’re the only ones who can do anything about it. the gun makers and the gun lobby need to help us. The “good guys with guns” need to support us. But you’re right, this is going way off topic.


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  26. #4106
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    let's move to maybe let's start be having parties being liable for their, part why can't victim's of gun violence, be able to sue gun manufacturer's, this guy should have been allowed, no were near a gun store, look, we can sue the fuck out of bartender's, " overselling, you know, what happen after everyone of these events happen? gun sales go up! so don't bite into the fear biscuit people, I don't see anyone yelling"they're coming to take away your right to rent trucks from home depot, sometimes when playing wack a mole it isn't about having more mallets eliminating the mole before they exist, keeping the amount of hole they can pop out of?
    -Louie

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    Quote Originally Posted by sweeterthan View Post
    I’m reading that he was able to purchase the guns. Somewhere something failed.
    Yes, see the article I linked above.

    We enact laws in an attempt to deter crime; we can't prevent crime.

    We read the paper about a robbery occurring, but there are laws against robbery, and we have police to enforce those laws, but robberies still happen. So do murders, kidnappings, shootings, domestic violence, sexual assaults, etc. Laws can convict the person AFTER THE FACT but we have no real way to prevent the crimes from happening. With firearms, each state has to have a database that will either be maintained to enforce both state and Federal laws or is in conjunction with the Federal database to enforce those laws. But, these databases -- like most other databases -- are dependent on input by human beings and are full of errors and omissions. So, do we pass a law to enforce databases? Okay, how does that work, exactly? Daily inspections of databases? How do we know who or what's supposed to be in those databases, without cross-referencing missing data? Even the Federal database is flawed, as was evidenced by Dyllan Roof and the FBI database.

    Then, let's ask the question of "why do people commit these crimes?"

    Canada has an estimated 30.8 guns per 100 residents.

    The population of Canada as of 2016 is 35,151,728.

    So let's do the math:

    35,151,728 divided by 100 = 351,517 x 30.8 = 1,826,732 guns in Canada. (In the U.S., as of 2009, there were 300 million guns, or 101 guns per 100,000 people.)

    How many shootings are there in Canada?

    Canada has had some gun massacres.

    But here's the firearm homicide rate by comparison:



    Okay, but we often focus on these "mass shootings" but the U.S. is a fuckload more gun-happy than THAT.

    Let's look at the increasing incidents of firearms and road rage.

    I've had to drum it into my 80-yr-old Mother's head that she CAN'T flip off people on the road who cut her off, anymore, unless she wants to get shot in the head from road rage.
    Last edited by allegro; 11-06-2017 at 04:21 PM.

  28. #4108
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    I've had to drum it into my 80-yr-old Mother's head that she CAN'T flip off people on the road who cut her off, anymore, unless she wants to get shot in the head from road rage.
    Anymore? My mom drummed that into my head before I was even 10. My better half did it to someone (who admittedly almost killed us) on the highway and it was the closest I've ever come to actually yelling at her.

  29. #4109
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    We enact laws in an attempt to deter crime; we can't prevent crime.

    We read the paper about a robbery occurring, but there are laws against robbery, and we have police to enforce those laws, but robberies still happen. So do murders, kidnappings, shootings, domestic violence, sexual assaults, etc. Laws can convict the person AFTER THE FACT but we have no real way to prevent the crimes from happening. With firearms, each state has to have a database that will either be maintained to enforce both state and Federal laws or is in conjunction with the Federal database to enforce those laws. But, these databases -- like most other databases -- are dependent on input by human beings and are full of errors and omissions. So, do we pass a law to enforce databases? Okay, how does that work, exactly? Daily inspections of databases? How do we know who or what's supposed to be in those databases, without cross-referencing missing data? Even the Federal database is flawed, as was evidenced by Dyllan Roof and the FBI database.

    Then, let's ask the question of "why do people commit these crimes?"
    I'd rather focus on harm prevention. If you reduce the number of guns people have, you'll reduce the amount of gun deaths.

    It's not a 100% solution, but if we can save 90% of the lives of those who would be murdered by guns, that's a big improvement over where things are right now.

  30. #4110
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    Quote Originally Posted by eskimo View Post
    I'd rather focus on harm prevention. If you reduce the number of guns people have, you'll reduce the amount of gun deaths.

    It's not a 100% solution, but if we can save 90% of the lives of those who would be murdered by guns, that's a big improvement over where things are right now.
    We will never reduce the number of guns out there now unless we find a way to enforce existing laws, confiscating illlegal guns, conducting “buy-back” programs, etc.

    We could enact future limits on the number of guns per household, etc. but those laws have to be enforced in some way — 100% accurate state databases, the inability to buy a gun online or in a state not on your driver’s licenses, but I’m afraid that states won’t cooperate with each other until something exceptionally horrible happens that upsets the governments.

    Last time that happened was when the President was shot (Reagan). I’m not advocating shooting a President but when Reagan was shot, Reagan, Ford and Clinton all advocated for new Federal gun laws. But, again, laws that can’t be enforced aren’t useful laws. Until we come up with an accurate way to handle the logistics and costs of enforcing strict laws, while also honoring states’ rights, we can only attempt normal methods of prevention: metal detectors, security, cameras, etc. AND we need stronger sentences for gun offenders.

    Gangs in Chicago have a motto: “I’d rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.”
    Last edited by allegro; 11-06-2017 at 07:21 PM.

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