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Thread: Trump 2017: Year Zero

  1. #2911
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    Quote Originally Posted by elevenism View Post
    Do you guys think that this level of scandal would have forced a president to resign in the past?
    The special prosecutor needs to finish his investigation. We shall see.

  2. #2912
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    No. Bill Clinton didn't.
    Can we really compare the two? Clinton was impeach for lying under oath; not because he got some from the intern. And we're not at impeachment yet.

    In terms of comparing the level of scandal...getting frisky with a young woman (something a very, very large number of men do) vs possibly colluding with one of our biggest enemies to sway an election, ease sanctions behind the government's back, etc? I feel like as far as scandals go, these aren't even close to the same level.

  3. #2913
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    Quote Originally Posted by theimage13 View Post
    Can we really compare the two? Clinton was impeach for lying under oath; not because he got some from the intern. And we're not at impeachment yet.

    In terms of comparing the level of scandal...getting frisky with a young woman (something a very, very large number of men do) vs possibly colluding with one of our biggest enemies to sway an election, ease sanctions behind the government's back, etc? I feel like as far as scandals go, these aren't even close to the same level.
    "Scandal: an action or event regarded as morally or legally wrong and causing general public outrage."

    Watergate, Iran Contra, Paula Jones, Russians, they all created scandals and were prominent in the media every single day for a long time.

    Bill Clinton's problems extended over the course of several years and several women (Gennifer Flowers nearly cost him the first election), plus there was Whitewater. "Getting frisky" wasn't the suit against Clinton: he was sued for sexual harassment, or using his position of power to sexually harass or obtain sexual favors from underling employees like Jones and Lewinsky. But make no mistake, the "scandal" that ensued was just as big as this or Watergate or Iran Contra. Bill Clinton was impeached by the House on the grounds of perjury to a grand jury and obstruction of justice. He was cleared by votes from the Senate.

    Having lived through all of the above, I still count Watergate as the biggest scandal.
    Last edited by allegro; 06-19-2017 at 12:10 PM.

  4. #2914
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinsai View Post
    OK... that was surreal. I gave this thing the benefit of the doubt, but I assumed I was just being paranoid...

    This "Bernie or Bust" guy on twitter (aaaaaaaaarrrggh) attacked a scant post I made... I never post on Twitter, I hate it...

    So I engaged him.

    I told him I voted for Hillary. Because she was my best choice at the time when that ultimate choice came on my tab.

    He responds with calling me a shill and accusing me of being a corporatist... blah blah blah.....

    And this is someone with Bernie Sanders avatar... And so I said "No, I voted for Bernie in the primary. I voted for Hillary in the final run because I saw this coming... what are you talking about?!"

    And so I go to sleep. I wake up with 60 or so twitter notifications. "You're a shill!" "You love Hill" "You're so in love with the DNC that you'll set back 30 years of blah blah blah"

    ...

    And so I thought "Why the fuck not?"
    And so I tore his arguments apart.

    I kept repeating "I'm to the left of Bernie Sanders, how are you not recognizing that aspect of my repeated stance?"

    SHILL SHILL SHILL... idiot shill... it's what this bot kept accusing me of. It asked me to prove how many town halls I'd attended protest rallies, and by not knowing how many for sure, I was evading.

    So I asked "how do you feel about the fact that friends of mine will die because of the revocation of the ACA? They'll die. I'm older than you're pretending to be by probably what seems like a decade?"

    I got the bot to identify as 23.

    "My friends will die... because of policy... that wouldn't have happened if Trump wasn't president. How do you hold to that?" "

    called me a snowflake.

    Then, all tweets disappeared.

    FUCK TWITTER. No wonder Trump loves this format. It's "old guy" snapchat.
    It's also the short-attention span version of discourse we all dreaded, going back to the twilight zone.

    This isn't talking, or debate... and fuck debate, this is the worst forum for debate ever, that's why they like it.

    Did I mention I've been blocked and repeatedly reported to Twitter by this account?

  5. #2915
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    LOL at shitbag Trump speaking with the President of Panama today...

    TRUMP: 'The Panama Canal is doing...quite well. We did a good job building it.'
    PRESIDENT OF PANAMA: 'Yes. 100 years ago.'

    lmaoooooo

  6. #2916
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    Quote Originally Posted by october_midnight View Post
    LOL at shitbag Trump speaking with the President of Panama today...

    TRUMP: 'The Panama Canal is doing...quite well. We did a good job building it.'
    PRESIDENT OF PANAMA: 'Yes. 100 years ago.'

    lmaoooooo
    Trump: "Do you have John McCain's birth certificate?"

    (Heh heh)

  7. #2917
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    Trump: "Do you have John McCain's birth certificate?"

    (Heh heh)

    He keeps it with the tapes and his taxes.

  8. #2918
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    do you trust a guy that got fined for fraud, doesn't drink, but sells vodka, say anything do nothing, how many great businessmen can bankrupt a casino?, and people are willing to go??, I've, got some land and a few bridges,
    -Louie

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    I keep seeing and hearing people throwing out the word "impeachment' and I don't think they fully understand exactly what it entails.
    Just because someone is impeached doesn't mean that they are automatically removed from office, it is a lengthy procedure that may not even go anywhere.
    People should research what impeachment is and what happens when someone is in the process of impeachment because it seems to me that many people think it will take very little time for the impeachment process to fully conclude.
    Just my two cents.

  10. #2920
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    you don't think he knows this Russia ,know's this it took three years for Clinton, and whitewater, which he was fined for purgry dis barbed, Trump has no legal degree, no nothing, nothing political, Putin knew this there is no risk reward only reward, if he is caught, with collusion, what does America do? put him in the history books as the modern Benedict Arnold, greatest Con in history? now what?
    -Louie
    Last edited by Louie_Cypher; 06-19-2017 at 07:15 PM. Reason: known and known hudda thunk?

  11. #2921
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    Quote Originally Posted by ziltoid View Post
    I keep seeing and hearing people throwing out the word "impeachment' and I don't think they fully understand exactly what it entails.
    Just because someone is impeached doesn't mean that they are automatically removed from office, it is a lengthy procedure that may not even go anywhere.
    People should research what impeachment is and what happens when someone is in the process of impeachment because it seems to me that many people think it will take very little time for the impeachment process to fully conclude.
    Just my two cents.
    You're preaching to the choir. I think those of us posting here understand that. Browsing Facebook would certainly lead you to think otherwise though.

  12. #2922
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    Quote Originally Posted by theimage13 View Post
    You're preaching to the choir. I think those of us posting here understand that. Browsing Facebook would certainly lead you to think otherwise though.
    Absolutely talking about social media, news, and people that I run into at work.
    I was just venting about it in here.

  13. #2923
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    Quote Originally Posted by ziltoid View Post
    Just because someone is impeached doesn't mean that they are automatically removed from office, it is a lengthy procedure that may not even go anywhere.
    The Senate has to find him guilty of the crimes for which he was impeached (by the House), then he'd go to prison; or, the House can impeach him but then the Senate could find him not guilty and go on with their day and everything goes back to normal (Clinton); or, he could resign after he was impeached but before the Senate trial and then he could get pardoned by the successor President (Nixon).

    The impeachment talks are just a lot of hot air.
    Last edited by allegro; 06-19-2017 at 10:59 PM.

  14. #2924
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    Quote Originally Posted by theimage13 View Post
    You're preaching to the choir. I think those of us posting here understand that. Browsing Facebook would certainly lead you to think otherwise though.
    again huge word, little leagle. basis. treason. on the other hand is definide, adding or bedding, an enemy, of the us government, yes the US want's a Mulligan. ain't how it works kids. welcome, to the sausage factory I think the founders made it very complex on propose,
    very into the writings of them all
    look at where they were moving from toward and the time they lived in I'm gonna say good job. boy's if I every had an idea that was worth more that a minute i would be ok with that
    -Louie





    u
    Last edited by Louie_Cypher; 06-19-2017 at 09:43 PM.

  15. #2925
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    The Senate has to find him guilty of the crimes for which he was impeached (by the House), then he'd go to prison; or, the House can impeach him but then the Senate could find him not guilty and go on with their day and everything goes back to normal (Clinton); or, he could resign after he was impeached but before the Senate trial and then he could get pardoned by the successor President (Nixon).

    The impeachment talks are just a lot of hot air.
    I don't know about hot air, but if there's some damning shit on the table here, the American people will SCREAM bloody murder if he's pardoned.

    I've asked some of my politically active elders about their relative experience during the Nixon debacle, and they are all "glad he was pardoned, and it was ushered away." None of them said they felt "betrayed" by Nixon at the time, and they really didn't hold him ill will.

    This is different.

  16. #2926
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    Yeah well Bush and Cheney stole an election, committed war crimes and started a war under false pretenses, lied about weapons of mass destruction, caused the deaths of thousands of US troops and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis...and now Dubya's hanging out with Bono. This can go two ways in my mind: the Nixon way, impeachment/resignation and shame, or the Reagan way, where you have an assclown actor in the White House that people at the time are like "satire has overtaken reality", and decades later he's a hero to the right with airports and highways named after him, a very model of stateliness and sobriety. My money's on the Reagan way. Dubya's on that path, and Trump will muddle through somehow too.
    Last edited by aggroculture; 06-20-2017 at 08:47 AM.

  17. #2927
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    Trump vows to enact an immigration law that's already been in effect for more than 20 years:

    http://thehill.com/homenews/administ...ted-since-1996

  18. #2928
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    After the Georgia thing, I say just let them have the government they obviously want. They care more about guns and abortions than anything else, so the Dems should just walk away from these things. Save the money for something else, like a hand basket to live in while the world goes to hell.

  19. #2929
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    Trump tweets like a seven year old little girl with bladder control issues.

  20. #2930
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    Trump now claims he doesn't have recordings of his conversation with Comey. So, uh, why did he suggest that he did after firing Comey? Seems he thinks he can just make shit up to scare people from speaking out against him.
    http://nypost.com/2017/06/22/trump-d...ns-with-comey/

  21. #2931
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegate View Post
    After the Georgia thing, I say just let them have the government they obviously want. They care more about guns and abortions than anything else, so the Dems should just walk away from these things. Save the money for something else, like a hand basket to live in while the world goes to hell.
    I really agree with what Michael Bloomberg says about the Georgia special election, here, beginning at 02:58

    http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/video...ffice-48186367

  22. #2932
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    I agree with him to an extent, but then I look at the president and the people who voted for him and support him.

  23. #2933
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegate View Post
    I agree with him to an extent, but then I look at the president and the people who voted for him and support him.
    But when we vote for Representatives, we really are primarily worrying about local issues; not about the President.

    I voted for a Republican U.S. Representative three times when Mark Kirk represented our District in the House, and I'm a socialist. But Kirk constantly went to bat for our district and was a HUGE advocate for protecting the Great Lakes.
    Last edited by allegro; 06-23-2017 at 12:17 AM.

  24. #2934
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  25. #2935
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    Quote Originally Posted by ziltoid View Post
    Does this mean the beginning of Russian-gate is happening right now?

  26. #2936
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    Quote Originally Posted by ziltoid View Post
    Whoop-dee-do?

    I mean, what would this actually mean? Obviously it means we need to step up cyber security and teach people how to use their damn brains when it comes to choosing a candidate, but those are things we knew regardless of whether there was any smoking gun involving Russian meddling.

    But as far as the current presidency goes - this is supposedly proof that Russia did something, but that doesn't mean the President (or anyone in the US) directed them to do something. Soooooo.....what does that actually mean? They're not going to call a special election or something.

  27. #2937
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    Quote Originally Posted by theimage13 View Post
    Whoop-dee-do?

    I mean, what would this actually mean? Obviously it means we need to step up cyber security and teach people how to use their damn brains when it comes to choosing a candidate, but those are things we knew regardless of whether there was any smoking gun involving Russian meddling.

    But as far as the current presidency goes - this is supposedly proof that Russia did something, but that doesn't mean the President (or anyone in the US) directed them to do something. Soooooo.....what does that actually mean? They're not going to call a special election or something.
    What is really bothersome about all of this is that (a) Russia tried to tamper with our election (bad), (b) there appears to be evidence that Putin gave the directive to do this tampering, (c) this means we need to take this very seriously and try to beef up security, (d) the Dept of Homeland Security tried to get states to beef up security and offered help, but the states said fuck off, and worst of all, Trump thinks this is all a hoax. Okay, maybe Trump doesn't want to know anything that might compromise his win, but this is also a matter or national security related to Russia; instead of the Trump administration slapping Russia and increasing sanctions, the Trump administration is moving to return seized properties to Russia.

  28. #2938
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    What is really bothersome about all of this is that...Trump thinks this is all a hoax. Okay, maybe Trump doesn't want to know anything that might compromise his win, but this is also a matter or national security related to Russia
    This is the angle I hadn't been thinking of. All the other points seem like old news at this point (at least, to me), but I hadn't quite thought about the fact that POTUS appears to be ignoring election tampering on account of anything from narcissism to malicious collusion. "Proof that our entire election process has been compromised? Don't do anything about it, because it might mean bad things for me and my businesses." *shudder* That's a scenario that does disturb me even more than this whole nightmare already does.

  29. #2939
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    Quote Originally Posted by theimage13 View Post
    This is the angle I hadn't been thinking of. All the other points seem like old news at this point (at least, to me), but I hadn't quite thought about the fact that POTUS appears to be ignoring election tampering on account of anything from narcissism to malicious collusion. "Proof that our entire election process has been compromised? Don't do anything about it, because it might mean bad things for me and my businesses." *shudder* That's a scenario that does disturb me even more than this whole nightmare already does.
    the important thing to remember is if they get away with it this time who's to say they stop. advancing to all western democracies midterms? till every elected official is some way indebted or influenced by Russia,this is the new cold war, and were losing, badly,
    -Louie

  30. #2940
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    Quote Originally Posted by theimage13 View Post
    This is the angle I hadn't been thinking of. All the other points seem like old news at this point (at least, to me), but I hadn't quite thought about the fact that POTUS appears to be ignoring election tampering on account of anything from narcissism to malicious collusion. "Proof that our entire election process has been compromised? Don't do anything about it, because it might mean bad things for me and my businesses."
    Well, yeah, and again, worse yet: WHAT ABOUT THIS? I mean, really, WHAT THE FUCK?

    The Trump administration is moving toward handing back to Russia two diplomatic compounds, near New York City and on Maryland’s Eastern Shore, that its officials were ejected from in late December as punishment for Moscow’s interference in the 2016 presidential election.

    President Barack Obama said Dec. 29 that the compounds were being “used by Russian personnel for intelligence-related purposes” and gave Russia 24 hours to vacate them. Separately, Obama expelled from the United States what he said were 35 Russian “intelligence operatives.”

    In early May, the Trump administration told the Russians that it would consider turning the properties back over to them if Moscow would lift its freeze, imposed in 2014 in retaliation for U.S. sanctions related to Ukraine, on construction of a new U.S. consulate on a certain parcel of land in St. Petersburg.

    Two days later, the U.S. position changed. Secretary of State Rex Tillerson told Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov and Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak at a meeting in Washington that the United States had dropped any linkage between the compounds and the consulate, according to several people with knowledge of the exchanges.
    And, again, reiterating former Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson's sworn statement:

    On August 3, 2016, in an on-the-record session with reporters, I publicly floated the idea of designating election infrastructure in this country as critical infrastructure.

    Twelve days later, on August 15, I convened a conference call with secretaries of state and other chief election officials of every state in the country. I told state officials that we must ensure the security and resilience of election infrastructure, and offered DHS’s assistance to the states in doing that. I also reiterated the idea of designating election infrastructure as critical infrastructure.

    To my disappointment, the reaction to a critical infrastructure designation, at least from those who spoke up, ranged from neutral to negative. Those who expressed negative views stated that running elections in this country was the sovereign and exclusive responsibility of the states, and they did not want federal intrusion, a federal takeover, or federal regulation of that process. This was a profound misunderstanding of what a critical infrastructure designation would mean, which I tried to clarify for them.
    CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE.

    Not only did the states ignore these warnings, so did/is Trump and his entire administration. Why? Another country, against which we have sanctions, tried to mess with our Democratic process, the cornerstone of our republic. Why brush that off? Like you said: Ego? Narcissism? COLLUSION???

    Also from Johnson, equally disturbing:

    Johnson, who said the Democratic Party rebuffed offers of help from DHS after being breached, testified that it was obvious things could have been done differently. “With the benefit of hindsight, perhaps I should have camped out at the front door of the headquarters of DNC,” he said. “None of us knew how this was going to come out.”

    Johnson added, “Cyberattacks of all manner and from multiple sources are going to get worse before they get better.”
    Oh, yeah, and regarding the Russian compounds?

    THIS JUST IN, TODAY
    Last edited by allegro; 06-23-2017 at 11:58 PM.

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