Throbbing Member
What's wrong with american brains that they don't understand the concept of solidarity? for fucks sake. the human species is (and remains for the foreseeable future) eusocial, regardless of this stupidity and ego drenched capitalist era which will end someday anyway. solidarity is a means of survival (not only humanism which you despise apparently).
Last edited by baudolino; 05-03-2017 at 12:35 PM.
Active Member
this utter bullshit scares me and pisses me off it's science Denile bordering on theography, sharia law, hand maids tale and worse are we suppose to pray the disease away meanwhile we gut the EPA because the water you drink or the air breath has nothing to due with your health can we start feeding x-stains to the lions again yet?
-Louie
Bite me
Pre-existings were either denied or you paid HUGE premiums before the ACA, that's the way it always was here unless you had a group plan that covered it.
I was denied coverage under an individual plan for a knee injury by Blue Cross, but Humana accepted me with a 2-year rider on my knee. My boss's wife is a breast cancer survivor and an independent journalist, and the only coverage she could get cost over $1,400 per month.
They discussed this new plan on Meet the Press on Sunday, I guess it's based on a plan that Maine had for a few years before the ACA, where they had a "high risk pool" that the STATE covered for people's pre-existing.
Active Member
i still am confused what the hell is wrong with single payer? can someone on this board from Europe or Canada please explain? that's OK, i still get confused why people are opposed to socialism what it sounds to much like communism? when when have a sitting president that more than likely colluded with the largest communist state on the planet, at least he's not a secret Muslim, take away our guns, make sharia law standard us policy, help an idiot outOriginally Posted by allegro
-Louie
Bite me
Those opposed cite the Constitutional provisions for independent state control and don't like too much federal government control. Also, many congresspeople get campaign funds from insurance industry lobbyists (who pretty much wrote the ACA). We already have single-payer in the form of Medicare and Medicaid (although the latter is also state-controlled), plus Social Security pension benefits. It's not "fear of socialism" that causes misgivings about a national healthcare system; it's the knowledge that the government is already making healthcare costs too high by setting the prices of procedures and care via Medicare, often WAY TOO HIGH, and they do not negotiate for prices or prescription drugs. (See again collusion between congress and healthcare and insurance industries designed to keep profits and dividends high.)
See also:
https://www.pastemagazine.com/articl...upporting.html
Last edited by allegro; 05-03-2017 at 12:06 PM.
Active Member
i guess that that kind of makes sense but we still have things like the DMV which are federally controlled and no one has issues, and @ least here in Cali you are required to have car insurance and I definitely know high risk drivers and their able to work it, is there not enough competition, i think selling across state lines is a bullshit just mean will flock to the least regulated state, can't there be like cute rate medical insurance like "the general" called " the surgeon general" unfortunately the only Dr. in network is Dr.Nick Rivera wow a DMV reference, a local daytime commercial reference, and a Simpsons reference this post is done thanks allegro for attempting to explain although I'm still grasping the concept of finger spinners
-Louie
Last edited by Louie_Cypher; 05-03-2017 at 02:20 PM. Reason: complete sentences and stuff
Bite me
The Secretary of State (DMV) is controlled by each state, not the Federal government. Each state may have laws similar to other states but they are not all the same.
For instance, Michigan is a "no fault" state re car insurance. The car insurance costs are much higher in Michigan because of this, but it's intended to accelerate the claims process and decrease lawsuits. Illinois is NOT a no-fault state.
In Michigan, if you get a traffic ticket you sign the ticket as bond assurance to pay the ticket or appear in court. In Illinois, if you get a traffic ticket you must present a "bond card" or temporarily forfeit your driver's license or pay an instant cash bond if your license is from another state.
See also: http://www.michigan.gov/sos/0,4670,7...474--F,00.html
Last edited by allegro; 05-03-2017 at 02:44 PM.
Active Member
still doesn't explain why people don't want single payer, i know Montana had a law where speeding was 5$ on the spot drinking age was 18 due to a lot of military they lost federal highway funding
_Louie
Bite me
You're mixing apples and oranges.
Many "people" meaning voters want a single-payer healthcare system, and many "people" meaning voters do not.
Obama, during his '08 campaign, promised a single-payer system. When the Democrats had control of the House and Senate (a/k/a "Congress"), the Democrats didn't go for a single-payer system when they had the supermajority with a Democrat President. I already said why in my prior post.
See also.
Also, the problem with the "Affordable Care Act" isn't the insurance industry: IT'S THE COST OF HEALTHCARE. The "ACA" did NOTHING toward making our health care "affordable." Insurance costs a lot because we Americans pay more for healthcare than any other country in the world. A single-payer system won't make that better; in fact, it's more likely to make it WORSE, because the Federal Government does not audit anything and writes checks for everything. I've seen Medicare approve a client in her 90s for a KIDNEY TRANSPLANT.
See also this.
What the country NEEDS is a national health system that would be more like the V.A., where the hospital is actually RUN BY the Federal Government, and the medical staff and everybody involved is paid BY the Federal Government.
Instead, they're arguing about expanding Medicaid for individual coverage, but that does NOTHING toward bringing down the cost of health care. It won't decrease the cost of having a baby from 30 fucking grand, or an aspirin in a hospital from costing 5 bucks each, etc.
Last edited by allegro; 05-03-2017 at 04:54 PM.
Active Member
Active Member
idon't i know it when I had my stroke 1 night stay a procedure to remove a clot running a device up my groin into my brain-pan and an over night stay 160k not to mention having to resign my job due to "issues"made Stroodle out of my noodle, not to mention physical and speech therapy which was $300 a visit, so i know about costs i can only imagine if it was c or worse going on disability is a bitch not to mention explaining the gap in time to get hired back, but i didn't sit on my ass feeling sorry for myself, made sure I kept my skills up and tried to use my downtime wisely went to support groups tried to contribute were i could
-louie
Bite me
There was a River of Blood, really, ask anybody!!
http://www.esquire.com/news-politics...iver-of-blood/
Active Member
How Trump could be removed from office.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7716326.html
Active Member
I guarantee you that these "conversations" that congresspeople are having are nothing more than the same ones the media or you and I are having. They're not doing it with the intent to actually move forward; they're just chatting about how much they hate the guy. Until he starts costing them money and votes, they're not going to move to get rid of him. And so far, Republicans haven't lost any of their post-inauguration elections. Plus, if he DID get removed, it would be by a vote of his peers - meaning he could then reach out to people who have supported them financially in the past and basically torch them. They're not going to rock the boat. This article is nothing more than a headline to generate clicks and ad revenue.
Bookmark this post: unless 45 gets caught in something that he can be criminally prosecuted for and impeached, he will not be removed from office prior to the 2020 election. And even then, some crazy freaking how, he might get a second term. Don't you dare tell me "there's no way," because that's what everyone said last time.
Active Member
I absolutely agree he could have a second term, for the same reason you state. I also think it's possible he could be impeached if some kind of Watergate type scandal happens.If his poll numbers tank and he is toxic, his own party could decide to cut their losses. He could be removed before Thanksgiving or leave office on January 20, 2025.
Active Member
But see, that's just the thing. His poll numbers ARE tanking. He's repeatedly polling at historic lows. With a majority control he STILL can't pass legislation. He's utterly ineffective, but in the replacement elections that have been held since taking office, he still hasn't cost any Republicans a seat. Unless every seat on the right that's up for election in 2018 is lost to a Democratic challenger, there won't be a big party loss.
Active Member
How many replacement elections have their been? And a Democrat isn't going to win in a Republican district anyway, at least not now, although one came close and there will be a run-off. If and when Trump loses the 40 percent of the country that voted for him, then maybe he will be impeached.
Bite me
^^ The article is by a British publication. It's wishful thinking; it took TWO YEARS and a Democratic majority to attempt to remove Nixon.
Meanwhile, Congress' new healthcare plan moves us back into the dark ages of discrimination:
https://m.mic.com/articles/176092/un...ion#.aDu55Muki
tempus est umbra in mente
Here comes the sandpaper dildo America. You asked for it.
Active Member
I think this "repeal" bill is dead on arrival at the Senate. At the very least, it will undergo some significant changes.
I've read comments from conservative pundits and no one is happy with this bill.
Conservatives don't think it's a clean repeal.
The only people who are happy are Trump voters because they have no clue what's happening but hey .. it sure looks like they're winning and MAGA.
Active Member
i think gerrymandering voter suppression and other dirty tricks the ultra- right and religious conservatives seek ultimate control in all things they believe that it's gods will that they rule America, and adhere to his commandments except the love thy neighbor, and other things the would question their authority
-louie
Active Member
Even though most of us kind of didn't since Trump's main opponent had 3 million more votes than he did and a large swath of voters sat the election out meaning that Trump won with only 26% of eligible voters supporting him because we have an hilariously broken election system that rewards playing a numbers game rather than actually representing and appealing to the general sensibilities of most Americans but, yeah, totally
Active Member
Why are people saying "Republicans are fucked when they are up for re-election because of this"?
Didn't people vote Republican exactly to repeal ACA...which is what they are doing. Why would their constituents not be ecstatic right now?
Bite me
A lot of Trump voters are older people. This new bill allows insurance companies to charge up to 5x more money in premiums to older people. It also provides tax credits instead of vouchers; broke, unemployed and retired people (under 65) don't need tax credits if they're hardly paying any taxes or not paying any at all.
First, this has to pass the Senate before it becomes law. It's expected that the Senate will make some revisions. They are said to have a big problem with some areas of the bill. The conservative Republicans have indicated that they won't approve a revised bill.
IF it is finally passed, there will be some time that needs to pass before we know how horrible this bill is (relative to the current ACA). Trump and his minions are promising that rates will decrease. There is no indication at all that insurance companies will ever reduce rates, especially since the actual cost of health care is NOT changing with this bill.
Last edited by allegro; 05-04-2017 at 05:24 PM.
tempus est umbra in mente
Well, if it does get repealed, then their fucking MAGA fantasy is going to become a reality, and I think people are going to realize that they should be more careful with what they wish for.
Active Member
I may be (okay, I am) making some sweeping generalizations and stereotypes here, but I think the biggest opponents of the ACA were the ones who just said "FUCK YOU I DON'T WANT TO PAY FOR HEALTH INSURANCE I'LL JUST GO WITHOUT IT". They didn't have insurance before the ACA and they didn't want to be forced to be covered. They'd rather buy guns and trucks and cheap beer than invest in their health. So there's potentially a large part of the pro-Trump / anti-ACA sect who couldn't give a shit about losing insurance. They never wanted it in the first place; they see it as a waste of money until it's too late.
(Again, this is not what ALL anti-ACA people are thinking - but I've personally met and worked with a staggering number of people like this.)
Active Member
They've been fed rhetoric with no substance -- many have no fucking idea how much the ACA may have helped them in their daily life, especially when they've been told nonstop left and right every day for almost a decade about how it's making life a living hell and meanwhile Democrats were terrible at voicing its successes in a direct way that could break through the right-wing messaging machine. But I can assure you, people notice when good things are taken away far more easily than when something good is given to them, and the people that will be severely damaged by this will feel it.
Whether they'll recognize where it came from is really up to the Democrats to decide in how they present this situation in the media but I think it's very likely we'd see a lot of these people run far away from the people who caused them to not get insured because they were raped or watched their sons and daughters die because they couldn't get coverage for their childhood leukemia. They'll feel that the system is worse and won't be able to be told "It's because of Obamacare!" anymore, and they'll turn what there is -- the AHCA.
Bite me
I don't know, though, I know people who dislike the ACA who HAVE insurance but their employers were forced to obtain a new "minimum" insurance that is "cadillac" insurance that they feel they don't need, since it forced the employers to raise the deductible to a crazy amount to afford the premiums. My brother's g/f's insurance deductible was raised to $2,500 annually so she never reaches it so she has to pay out-of-pocket even though she has insurance, and the monthly premiums are several hundred dollars higher than before; therefore, their insurance becomes "catastrophic" insurance that they'll never be able to use for preventive care (too high deductible) even though the ACA was intended to promote preventive care.
The cheaper insurance is spread out to individuals who are poor or unemployed, but the remainder (in group plans through employers) are getting stuck with the higher premiums to pay for the former.
And NEITHER insurance plan truly makes health care "affordable." Both only deal with health INSURANCE.
Thing is, too, that insurance premiums were ALREADY going up each year a TON before the ACA was even signed into law. Law firms that used to cover all of the insurance premiums and never required employee contributions (which was traditional in the legal field) started having to raise deductibles, switch to shittier coverage and deduct money from paychecks just to keep providing insurance benefits. Again, this is due to the cost of health care constantly increasing.
My guess is that premiums WILL NOT go down even if this new act is passed; because they were always rising, anyway, and they're only bound to increase.
Last edited by allegro; 05-04-2017 at 07:13 PM.
24.24.1.1397
Man, I sure am going to miss being able to pay for medications and going to the doctor and having my bloodwork checked every 3-6 months to make sure I'm not going to die.
Thanks Obama.
Fuck you, GOP.
Active Member
OK I'm going to do something strange I'm not going to immediately trash anything Trump does until I have more evidence
we'll see how long this new attitude lasts maybe last the week end we'll see
-Louie
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