Likes: 
Faceplams: Hi all, I definitely concur, all the drama that is being played out or yet to be at least.
Flaccid Member
Hi all, I definitely concur, all the drama that is being played out or yet to be at least.
Active Member
Throbbing Member
This really is a radical move from Trump, Even the far right parties gaining power in Eastern Europe have not tried to ban citizens from Islamic countries yet, or this explicitly.
I think they will now though. Trump is a god send to these parties.
tempus est umbra in mente
the influence this will have in emboldening the right-lean throughout Europe is definitely a concern. Hopefully, the push back against this horseshit will be so deafening that it will make people think twice.
Bite me
It's been established by political experts that Bannon is really the President (with Priebus assisting) and Trump is just the "salesman."
I watched experts on "Meet the Press" this morning who smartly said that Dems can't fight Trump and gain support with anti-Trump rhetoric; that lost them the election; they can garner more support by embracing and promoting Democratic values that reflect the voters' values.
“Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up, and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable - a most sacred right - a right, which we hope and believe, is to liberate the world.” - Abraham Lincoln
Last edited by allegro; 01-29-2017 at 01:51 PM.
Bite me
Senators John McCain and Lindsey Graham weigh in:
http://www.mccain.senate.gov/public/...5-CF30F0A77889
“Our government has a responsibility to defend our borders, but we must do so in a way that makes us safer and upholds all that is decent and exceptional about our nation.
“It is clear from the confusion at our airports across the nation that President Trump’s executive order was not properly vetted. We are particularly concerned by reports that this order went into effect with little to no consultation with the Departments of State, Defense, Justice, and Homeland Security.
“Such a hasty process risks harmful results. We should not stop green-card holders from returning to the country they call home. We should not stop those who have served as interpreters for our military and diplomats from seeking refuge in the country they risked their lives to help. And we should not turn our backs on those refugees who have been shown through extensive vetting to pose no demonstrable threat to our nation, and who have suffered unspeakable horrors, most of them women and children.
“Ultimately, we fear this executive order will become a self-inflicted wound in the fight against terrorism. At this very moment, American troops are fighting side-by-side with our Iraqi partners to defeat ISIL. But this executive order bans Iraqi pilots from coming to military bases in Arizona to fight our common enemies. Our most important allies in the fight against ISIL are the vast majority of Muslims who reject its apocalyptic ideology of hatred. This executive order sends a signal, intended or not, that America does not want Muslims coming into our country. That is why we fear this executive order may do more to help terrorist recruitment than improve our security.”
Last edited by allegro; 01-29-2017 at 01:55 PM.
Hairy Member
I agree on almost everything. I not agree on "Clinton was the lesser of two evils", BUT I'M NOT SAYING THAT TRUMP IS A GOOD/NORMAL OPTION, FAR FROM IT. I refer to external politics: Hillary Clinton wants a slaughter to overthrow Assad (there are articles explaining that); Trump commercial interests don't want these war-inversion.Originally Posted by Conan The Barbarian
On internal politics I'll not enter because I don't know the EEUU internal conditions completely. I can only say one thing: Obama built a wall, Obama repressed and deported immigrants, women salaries is 25% less than men with Obama, Obama dropped bombs on Middle East. Those are objetive facts.
I won't say all of you aren't in troubles. Trump mixes a hate speech and other things like "I won't allow this factory to close". Working class is attracted by this last thing. What about this? Popular mass are being channeled in hate/fascist speech. What's the problem? There's no left/progressist/revolutionary organization that heeds the demands of the working class and EEUU population: this simply doesn't exist, that's the problem.
I repeat: I'm not saying Trump is good. I wish I had explained well.
Last edited by Trento; 01-29-2017 at 06:02 PM.
Too Privileged to Get It
John McCain is becoming increasingly irrelevant to the entire process, and instead of talking about it and analyzing it and "meet the press", he should be working on his own solution. All these people do is talk, talk, talk, and they're so fond of talking that they don't know what to do when someone from the opposite end starts taking a shitload of action.
Bite me
Well, but at least he is speaking out against it; most other Republicans are either mute or have stated support (Paul Ryan).
First, people were like "WHY ARE THE REPUBLICANS PUTTING UP WITH THIS? WHERE IS THE OUTRAGE?"
Then a few Republican Senators release a statement in opposition, and people are like "WHY AREN'T YOU DOING SOMETHING?? SHUT UP AND DO SOMETHING."
There is not much they CAN do. Trump has LEGALLY instituted this travel ban per U.S. Code. It was and is a logistical nightmare and the Senators McCain and Graham point out that the EO was executed without consultation with the proper channels which is an ethics problem. But other than speaking out against it, there isn't anything they can do at this point to revise U.S. Code. And a few ethical missteps is not yet grounds for investigation of abuse of power. Especially considering evidence that Obama instituted a similar ban against Iraqis for 6 months, as did Carter with Iranians, etc. (precedent). See also.
Congress could move to act against it, but most aren't likely to defy Trump right now because he's doing exactly what got him elected, he's delivering on a promise that got him elected. Vocal Republican opposition is going to have to be based on actual negative evidence or their voting base will turn against them. And Trump will use Twitter to call out the enemies of his plans.
Last edited by allegro; 01-29-2017 at 02:33 PM.
Bite me
In another interesting turn of events, the Koch Brothers released a statement expressing their opposition to the ban.
“We believe it is possible to keep Americans safe without excluding people who wish to come here to contribute and pursue a better life for their families. The travel ban is the wrong approach and will likely be counterproductive,” said Hooks, the co-chairman of the Koch network. "Our country has benefited tremendously from a history of welcoming people from all cultures and backgrounds. This is a hallmark of free and open societies.”
Bite me
Chuck Schumer is saying this is unconstitutional and Dems will fight it.
I imagine they will get Republican support, as well.
Last edited by allegro; 01-29-2017 at 02:52 PM.
Active Member
"No foreign national in a foreign land, without ties to the United States, has any unfettered right to demand entry into the United States or to demand immigration benefits in the United States."
But green card holding permanent residents do have that right!!! Assholes!!!!!!!
Bite me
But this is more about where those campaign dollars are heading, now. (Away from congresspeople who support this.). Politicians follow the money.
Really, these protests are showing Congress that things ain't gonna be business as usual, anymore.
Fuck this "left right" shit. There is the bigger importance of right and wrong. All of us except for Native Americans are descendents of immigrants. This is a core value not based on fear. Many of our first immigrants came here BECAUSE of religion.
Exclusion is a tactic of fear-mongering.
Last edited by allegro; 01-29-2017 at 02:45 PM.
Bite me
An Executive Order can be overturned by judicial decision.
Also, Congress can overturn an Executive Order. Per Wiki:
Congress has the power to overturn an executive order by passing legislation that invalidates it. Congress can also refuse to provide funding necessary to carry out certain policy measures contained with the order or to legitimize policy mechanisms. In the case of the former, the president retains the power to veto such a decision; however, the Congress may override a veto with a two-thirds majority to end an executive order. It has been argued that a congressional override of an executive order is a nearly impossible event, due to the supermajority vote required and the fact that such a vote leaves individual lawmakers vulnerable to political criticism.
tempus est umbra in mente
Steve Bannon... such a monumental asshole... Steve "I'm a Leninist! Lenin wanted to destroy the state, and that's my goal too. I want to bring everything crashing down, and destroy all of today's establishment!" Bannon
Too Privileged to Get It
...you don't seriously believe news from The Daily Beast, do you?
BACKROLLS?!
Among my group of friends, he's known as Führer Bannondorf.
Hairy Member
This man is going to make us fight each other. Whatever emerges will no longer be the same nation that survived the trials of the 19th century.
tempus est umbra in mente
Do you have a more specific complaint about The Daily Beast? They're not InfoWars.
Active Member
Between the fact that the site isn't even ten years old, Chelsea Clinton sits on the board of directors of the parent company, and they were busted for publishing a piece full of lies about who supported which candidates, I'd take the reporting of a sensationalist-styled website with a grain of salt. I'm not saying every single thing they write is full of biased lies and no one should believe a single word they say. I'm just saying maybe don't put as much stock in them as someone who's been around for ages.
i'm too thin
Is this a joke? Do you actually believe that Hillary Clinton didn't 'have what it takes' to run this country? Are you a Bernie Or Bust-er or a 'DNC corruption' conspiracy theorist or something? They didn't both suck. That's completely fucking ridiculous to say at this point. Hillary Clinton was MORE than qualified to run this country. She wasn't the lesser of two evils, she was simply a good choice. The only good choice between the two candidates. The fact that she was a woman was such a small part of both her campaign and her support.
lmao.
This has always been such a hilarious thought to me, people saying we need guns to fight back against hypothetical government takeover.
Seriously, best of luck with that. It's 2017, not 1817. If the government decided on a fascist takeover, your guns would accomplish absolutely nothing. In the event that the US government decides to take away your rights or your guns, I would LOVE to see the Second Amendment people try and fight back. The way to fight back is legally and politically. When it descends to literal physical warfare, the American people have already lost. They're not going to send in troops with guns. They have war planes that will destroy your entire city block without you even knowing they're in the sky above you. I would like to see you try and fight that with your guns lol.
Bite me
Except the specific article's focus isn't "news." The writer recounts conversations he had with Bannon about Bannon's beliefs and goals.
Stubby Member
Whaaattttt?
Hillary Clinton has a terrible history. Documented repeated fraud, insider trading, the list goes on. First ever first lady to be put umder federal investigation. Do some fucking research.
And don't be a smart ass and ask me to do it for you.
Behold the morning star
I didn't say she wasn't qualified. Out of the two she was qualified, but I don't think she would have been good at it. She is corrupted and flip flops her views to get where she needs to get. That's just my opinion on her. I did vote for her only for the fact that I didn't want what we have now.
And I was for Bernie Sanders, even though I didn't agree with some of his points, I felt that he would have a good president.
Active Member
Cleared of federal investigation. Thing she was investigated for? Trump and several of his top staff are currently still doing - and his own supporters even admitted by a majority that they think he should be allowed to.
Trump? Lawsuit after lawsuit after lawsuit (several of which are ongoing, and even new ones brought up in the last week). Dozens of complaints of fraud, contracts never being paid out, workers never receiving millions of dollars in payments, businesses going bankrupt and leaving thousands unemployed, the list goes on. Do some fucking research.
And don't be a smart as and make us do it for you.
Bite me
Dude, we live here. And we can discern fake research from actual research. (Note that the Washington Times is NOT the Washington Post; the former is a rag as reliable as the National Enquirer.) Insider trading was conducted by nearly every member of Congress (legally until a loophole was closed in 2013). Fraud, there's questionable evidence of that but she's never been charged, and neither were McCain or the Keating Five guys. It's pretty hard for U.S. Politicians to not get into some shit, the power seems to corrupt them. But none of this is why Clinton lost the Electoral College votes. It's a moot point for people to keep discussing an election that ended three months ago.
Last edited by allegro; 01-29-2017 at 06:05 PM.
Active Member
Can I just say, it takes a real piece of human garbage to trash talk/bully someone's young child just because their parent/grandparent is an asshole. I can't believe people this moronic fucking exist.
Bite me
Immature grab for attention.
Can I just say, it takes a real piece of human garbage to trash talk/bully someone's young child just because their parent/grandparent is an asshole. I can't believe people this moronic fucking exist.
Active Member
I would say let's talk about it to learn what went wrong so we can avoid it in 2020. But...
At this point let's just make sure we'll still have elections in 4 years, and not just some emergency renewal of power for the Commander in Chief due to whatever crisis he's working towards right now. Just sayin'
Add Violins
Yup. Pretty much everyday. I actually joined twitter specifically for the purpose of reading his tweets on a regular basis. Don't ask me why. I suppose I just like torturing myself. I also read r/the_donald on a daily basis, which I HEARTILY recommend to anyone hoping to destroy their own sanity along with any belief in human decency.
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