Trump 2017: Year Zero

[allegro]

Can we talk about Papa?

To me, this is the story that feels far more relevant to the current administration.

As for Manafort and Gates...seeing a lot of people on social media hailing this as huge news and how it does, in a roundabout way, tie in to the election. But my understanding is "these are years-old tax crimes that have nothing to do with the election or campaign from a legal perspective". Again - am I way off on that?

Yup.

Yup.

Nope.

edit: caveat here that Manafort IS related to the Trump campaign per stuff that Papadapolous (man, I love saying this name) has direct info related to how these other guys are related to Trump. So, yeah, the initial indictments released against Manafort and Gates aren't related to Trump but this is just the beginning.

Maddow just brought up that the WaPo leak about some of the Papadapolous stuff was edited -- by Manafort -- with surgical precision.

Dun dun DUN ... the plot continues to thicken.

Meanwhile, Manafort was ALSO an adviser to the Bill Clinton campaign. And I say: If there is shit against the Clintons, fine, investigate and bring them down, too. FUCK CORRUPTION. FUCK PEOPLE WHO FUCK US. NO MATTER THEIR PARTY AFFILIATION. BOTH THE DEMS AND REPUBS ARE CORRUPT MACHINES THAT NEED A GIANT BATH.

[allegro]

You know, for what it's worth (LOL), here's my gut feelings about all of this:

Manafort and Gates were spending tons and tons of money on expensive suits and ties, rugs, home remodeling, real estate in the Hamptons, etc., and they might have gotten away with their schemes for years, maybe even FOREVER, had they not had the Trump stink on them. Really, the biggest mistake they ever made was having anything to do with Trump.

And, just like Capone wasn't convicted of murder or booze-running during prohibition or any of that stuff but was, instead, convicted of tax evasion, I think Trump has a shitload of skeletons in his business practice closet that is at risk of being discovered during this Russia investigation. So, while on the hunt for Russia stuff, somebody links Trump just enough to warrant a full grand jury investigation and VOILA, hey, here's a shitload of tax evasion or illegal business dealings with foreign countries or shit like that? yeah, that seems a lot more possible. And a lot more fun. :-)

Trump isn't an upstanding guy. We used to poke fun at him in the 80s for never using his own money to get rich; he had business investors and venture capitalists and totally risked THEIR money on commercial real estate transactions. He made a lot of money for himself and others, and he LOST a lot of OTHER PEOPLE'S money but NEVER his own. It's totally likely - not possible, but LIKELY - that he's been hiding all kinds of shit, playing dirty financial pool, that makes other white collar criminals look like Mother Theresa in comparison.

So, while he's screaming RUSSIA and CLINTON, he's really shitting his pants worried that the Feds will stumble into his hidden assets or illegal foreign investments etc.

His tax returns won't show that, because it wouldn't be REPORTED. Only a full financial raid into all of his documents would work.

[Sister Midnight]

@allegro and don't forget he never pays anybody he is a deadbeat (contractors, attorneys, US banks) and filed bankruptcy four times.

[allegro]

Meanwhile, we've been through worse ... MUCH WORSE .... and we overcame it and we can with this, too:

[Sister Midnight]

[allegro]

@allegro and don't forget he never pays anybody he is a deadbeat (contractors, attorneys, US banks) and filed bankruptcy four times.

His COMPANIES filed for Chapter 11 reorganization. That means that they renegotiated the company debts. Again, not TRUMP'S money; investor's money, and they screwed all of the creditors by paying a reduced amount (1 dollar for every 1,000 or whatever) and THEN WROTE THE LOSSES OFF for YEARS AND YEARS.

Business reorg bankrupties aren't considered "failures" like we think of personal Ch 7 bankruptcies (although, THOSE can be DELIBERATE failures which is why the BK code was changed not too many years ago); instead, they are ways to shift more losses and less profits to less debts and more profits with more loss write-offs (which translates to less loss).

I used to work for a company that was a subsidiary of another more successful company; the subsidiary's MAIN function was to be a loss write-off for the successful company.

But, if what you're implying is possible BANKRUPTCY FRAUD ... yes, always a possibility, too.

I worked for a guy who went down for that, spent 2 years in Club Fed.

[Sister Midnight]

His COMPANIES filed for Chapter 11 reorganization. That means that they renegotiated the company debts. Again, not TRUMP'S money; investor's money, and they screwed all of the creditors by paying a reduced amount (1 dollar for every 1,000 or whatever) and THEN WROTE THE LOSSES OFF for YEARS AND YEARS.

Business reorg bankrupties aren't considered "failures" like we think of personal Ch 7 bankruptcies (although, THOSE can be DELIBERATE failures which is why the BK code was changed not too many years ago); instead, they are ways to shift more losses and less profits to less debts and more profits with more loss write-offs (which translates to less loss).

I used to work for a company that was a subsidiary of another more successful company; the subsidiary's MAIN function was to be a loss write-off for the successful company.

Makes you kind of curious about the Tax Reform Bill, of coarse Republicans are only concerned about the deficit when the Democrats are in office. I think I will go for a beer the way Sarah Huckabee Sanders explains it, I'll drink for free. I think I'll wear my "Crooked Mondale" shirt.

[Sister Midnight]

But, if what you're implying is possible BANKRUPTCY FRAUD ... yes, always a possibility, too.

I worked for a guy who went down for that, spent 2 years in Club Fed.

That seems very MAGA.

[allegro]

James Comey has a formerly-incognito Twitter account under the name Reinhold Niebuhr:

https://twitter.com/formerbu/status/925070993692987394

“Man’s capacity for justice makes democracy possible, but man’s inclination to injustice makes democracy necessary.” Reinhold Niebuhr

Note that Niebuhr was “an American theologian, ethicist, commentator on politics and public affairs, and professor at Union Theological Seminary for more than 30 years” (Wikipedia), graduated from my Alma Mater (Elmhurst College in Elmhurst, IL) and is best known for his “Serenity Prayer” that was stolen by AA.

[Demogorgon]

And I say: If there is shit against the Clintons, fine, investigate and bring them down, too. FUCK CORRUPTION. FUCK PEOPLE WHO FUCK US. NO MATTER THEIR PARTY AFFILIATION. BOTH THE DEMS AND REPUBS ARE CORRUPT MACHINES THAT NEED A GIANT BATH.

I have never agreed with you more on anything than I do with this right here. Bravo.

[Exocet]

James Comey has a formerly-incognito Twitter account under the name Reinhold Niebuhr:

https://twitter.com/formerbu/status/925070993692987394

“Man’s capacity for justice makes democracy possible, but man’s inclination to injustice makes democracy necessary.” Reinhold Niebuhr

Note that Niebuhr was “an American theologian, ethicist, commentator on politics and public affairs, and professor at Union Theological Seminary for more than 30 years” (Wikipedia), graduated from my Alma Mater (Elmhurst College in Elmhurst, IL) and is best known for his “Serenity Prayer”

God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
Courage to change the things I can,
And wisdom to know the difference.

James Comey is an Alcoholic? I don't agree with Reinhold Niebuhr I think democracy has been stagnating in the west for decades..its very evident in 2017, does the US look appealing to an emerging democracy fuck no....XI Jingping makes political life look more appealing,.France and the UK used to be brutal dictatorships, they have constantly changed their political systems throughout the centuries
UK has no constitution it can morph into whatever it wants when it wants to. and at the moment I'm fairly certain people are sick of the way things are, even if we had to leave behind our brothers in Canada and Australia and New Zealand and fromer democracies of the British Empire we would change course without them, I have a feeling once the political system in a country stops working it needs to adapt

[allegro]

James Comey is an Alcoholic?

Wtf no. The Serenity Prayer wasn’t written for alcoholics, AA stole the prayer. And Niebuhr has been dead for a long time.

Democracy is not “stagnating” in the United States. It’s stronger than it has ever been, as is evidenced by the Cheeto in Chief.

This is a discussion about U.S. politics.

There is a separate thread for European politics.

Why did I not heed my Ignore list, ugh.

I really miss H Ross Perot.

[Exocet]

Wtf no. The Serenity Prayer wasn’t written for alcoholics, AA stole the prayer. And Niebuhr has been dead for a long time.

Democracy is not “stagnating” in the United States. It’s stronger than it has ever been, as is evidenced by the Cheeto in Chief.

This is a discussion about U.S. politics.

There is a separate thread for European politics.

Why did I not heed my Ignore list, ugh.

I really miss H Ross Perot.

sorry you took the time out of your life to quote niebhur was just expanding the conversation, sorry...oops

[allegro]

Heh ohhhh the details ...

[allegro]

sorry you took the time out of your life to quote niebhur was just expanding the conversation, sorry...oops

I didn’t; James Comey is masquerading as Niebuhr on Twitter. Pay attention, okay?

Roger Stone is Michael Corleone.

Trump is Senator Pat Geary.

James Comey is Tom the Consigliere.

[Exocet]

I didn’t; James Comey is masquerading as Niebuhr on Twitter. Pay attention, okay?

Roger Stone is Michael Corleone.

Trump is Senator Pat Geary.

James Comey is Tom the Consigliere.

sorry I used the word quote instead of mentioned niebhur, again I was just expanding the conversation, okay cool so there is no more mention of anything European in this thread ,got it....

[theimage13]

They're Trump-strong in rural Iowa, and they're not changing their minds

Well written opinion piece in the Kansas City Star. I haven't read the speech he cited so I can't and won't comment on whether I agree with the words he chose to label it with. But the way he writes about his media habits for context, his views of 45, and then his desire to understand why people adore him with a "he can do no wrong" attitude...he makes good points. Points that people on the left need to pay attention to if they want any chance at all of getting people to like them, or at least, not hate them so much that they ignore them entirely and paint their every word as a lie. I.e. also the way most of the left currently treats the right.

Some areas are too deeply entrenched to really "swing" the other way. But the issues raised here should be heeded nonetheless - as strategy in moderate areas, and as decency in all others.

[GulDukat]

They're Trump-strong in rural Iowa, and they're not changing their minds

Well written opinion piece in the Kansas City Star. I haven't read the speech he cited so I can't and won't comment on whether I agree with the words he chose to label it with. But the way he writes about his media habits for context, his views of 45, and then his desire to understand why people adore him with a "he can do no wrong" attitude...he makes good points. Points that people on the left need to pay attention to if they want any chance at all of getting people to like them, or at least, not hate them so much that they ignore them entirely and paint their every word as a lie. I.e. also the way most of the left currently treats the right.

Some areas are too deeply entrenched to really "swing" the other way. But the issues raised here should be heeded nonetheless - as strategy in moderate areas, and as decency in all others.

Is there something in the water? Sweet Jesus these people are dumb. No wonder the aliens don't visit.

[M1ke]

They're Trump-strong in rural Iowa, and they're not changing their minds

Well written opinion piece in the Kansas City Star. I haven't read the speech he cited so I can't and won't comment on whether I agree with the words he chose to label it with. But the way he writes about his media habits for context, his views of 45, and then his desire to understand why people adore him with a "he can do no wrong" attitude...he makes good points. Points that people on the left need to pay attention to if they want any chance at all of getting people to like them, or at least, not hate them so much that they ignore them entirely and paint their every word as a lie. I.e. also the way most of the left currently treats the right.

Some areas are too deeply entrenched to really "swing" the other way. But the issues raised here should be heeded nonetheless - as strategy in moderate areas, and as decency in all others.

I read this and I can't help but think that these people are mentally stuck in an adolescent mindset, where everything is about Good VS Evil, and we're all taking sides in some kind of great war.

Biblical sounding, really.

It's almost as if separation of church and state might have been a good idea. I just wish the founding fathers had thought of it....

[ton]

I wonder if he will make it to the end of his term or even this year. i doubt anything is going to stop him though with the way this bizarre circus has been running. It's a weird dream that's never going to stop.

[aggroculture]

He could win 2020 if this keeps going the way it has so far. The fact that liberals and people on the left can't even face that possibility (just as they - myself included - couldn't face Trump winning in 2016) really helps him and the GOP keep winning.

Far more important than impeaching Trump is Democrats getting their act together. Progressives need to take over the party. Corporate neoliberal Dems won't go without a fight: I went to a Bernie rally, there's hunger for that message. By contrast Hillary didn't even come to Indiana (she sent Bill).

Corporate Dems lose elections and are widely hated. I'm wondering at this point whether there needs to be a Progressive third party: yes, it will lose in the short term, but centrist Democrats are helping the right at this point, and governing to the right when they are in power.

[allegro]

We may even see the Republican party split, one side into a party that is fiscally conservative but socially liberal and isn't attached to the Pro-Life Anti-Gay Pro-Religion stuff like those controlling the party now. And, really, Trump fans aren't all staunch Republicans, either. Lots of them haven't even bothered voting until Trump. And, Trump picked up a ton of labor union people who were Democrats for generations, because the Dems haven't given a shit about labor unions in forever.

The Dems were the Working Class party for a LONG time, and somehow that all went away; probably after they all got rich on lobbyist money.

[theimage13]

I wonder if he will make it to the end of his term or even this year. i doubt anything is going to stop him though with the way this bizarre circus has been running. It's a weird dream that's never going to stop.

You can stop wondering. He will make it to the end of the term and quite possibly a second one, as others have already noted.

[M1ke]

Trump is blaming Schumer and immigration policies for the attack in NYC yesterday.

But it's still too early to politicize the Vegas Shooting by talking about gun control.

[allegro]

Trump is blaming Schumer and immigration policies for the attack in NYC yesterday..

The guy in NY is from UZBEKISTAN. He speaks RUSSIAN.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...=.ca6df2652906

[theimage13]

The guy in NY is from UZBEKISTAN. He speaks RUSSIAN.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...=.ca6df2652906

I mean, coming from the guy who taught his son that the free candy given out by strangers on Halloween is something you "earn" and not at all an example of handouts, I'm not surprised that he's got some facts wrong.

[Pillfred]

Trump is blaming Schumer and immigration policies for the attack in NYC yesterday.

But it's still too early to politicize the Vegas Shooting by talking about gun control.

Vegas wasn't a terrorist attack though. :/

[allegro]

I mean, coming from the guy who taught his son that the free candy given out by strangers on Halloween is something you "earn" and not at all an example of handouts

It’s called BEGGING on Halloween, he’s such an out-of-touch moron.

OMG JR IS SUCH A FUCKING TOOL!!!

https://twitter.com/donaldjtrumpjr/s...95970032443392

[aggroculture]

Vegas wasn't a terrorist attack though. :/

Depends what you mean by "terrorist attack": If you see this act as one of aggrieved white masculinity upholding the white supremacist patriarchal status quo through armed violence, then it is an act of terror.

We may even see the Republican party split, one side into a party that is fiscally conservative but socially liberal and isn't attached to the Pro-Life Anti-Gay Pro-Religion stuff like those controlling the party now.

Why would they do that when they are doing so well right now? Since 2010 they've checkmated Dems, and since Reagan they've been dominating US politics: even Dem presidents since then have governed as centrist neoliberals.

[Louie_Cypher]

doesn't surprise me in the least, he has no policies on emigration, or anything else, this is not an intellectually curious man, maybe maybe, we will begin to examine our idea of presidency and two party system is antiquated, idea,the founding fathers, did recognize this and asked for a constitution review every seven years, willing to be corrected on this, again the constitution, is brilliant document, document giving the time, but not infallible, which is why we have amendments, we were trying to get away from king ordained, god ordained decree's at the time. funny that.
-louie