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Thread: Trump 2017: Year Zero

  1. #1861
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    WH wants to eliminate Meals on Wheels to seniors due to lack of "results." What in the living fuck?

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/n...316-story.html

  2. #1862
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    WH wants to eliminate Meals on Wheels to seniors due to lack of "results." What in the living fuck?

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/n...316-story.html
    Military spending and border wall financing > all that other stuff

    They're testing blowback
    Last edited by Jinsai; 03-17-2017 at 04:16 AM.

  3. #1863
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    WH wants to eliminate Meals on Wheels to seniors due to lack of "results." What in the living fuck?

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/n...316-story.html
    Those old people aren't making Trump or his BFFs any richer, so he's not getting the results he wants. Makes sense to me.

  4. #1864
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    WH wants to eliminate Meals on Wheels to seniors due to lack of "results." What in the living fuck?

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/n...316-story.html
    Move it to the state level.

    Or privatize it.

  5. #1865
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    Oh yeah, 'privatize' it. Because these seniors have the money for it, right? Don't you think that if they could afford to pay for food, they wouldn't need meals on wheels to begin with?

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    I really don't understand the idea that it has to be all one way or the other. There's plenty of private organizations that do a lot of charitable work and we're only better off by having public-funded organizations making up for where they fail and to have the opposite also happening. I've really got to wonder what degree of poverty and need the people that are all for gutting any and all social welfare programs have lived in -- I've been homeless and not known where I was going to be sleeping night to night and if it wasn't for so many public programs, including public school which guaranteed me two meals a day and a structure to my otherwise largely transient-at-the-time life, I don't know what would have happened to myself and my mother at the time. She was working six days a week and still couldn't make ends meet, and there were, luckily, just enough programs that were able to help us that we ended up okay.

    How many people don't get access to all of that? How is "privatize everything" the answer to problems like that? I was able to see a doctor because of school-provided healthcare when I was dealing with a very, very severe case of the flu. That saved me. What would have happened if I hadn't had access to that? How many kids never get it and suffer greatly? There's a real lack of humanity and empathy and general basic fucking care for other people's lives that I see whenever the "privatize it all!" attitude comes up from Conservatives and Libertarians and it's so disturbing to me.

  7. #1867
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    Trump refused to shake Merkel's hand. Probably doesn't respect the fact that a woman is a leader of a country.


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    Quote Originally Posted by kleiner352 View Post
    I really don't understand the idea that it has to be all one way or the other.
    Right? I post that moving it to the state level or privatizing it are much better options than having fed programs. Then allegate focuses entirely on the privatizing half as being the only thing I said and as if that half is somehow impossible.

    Of course, it would be a lot easier for private orgs to feed the homeless if shit like this didn't happen: Try to Feed the Homeless and the Food Police Will Bleach Your BBQ

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    Quote Originally Posted by allegate View Post
    Oh yeah, 'privatize' it. Because these seniors have the money for it, right? Don't you think that if they could afford to pay for food, they wouldn't need meals on wheels to begin with?
    Where do you think the money comes from? Do you REALLY think something like Meals on Wheels can only function if the money comes directly from the federal government? (and thus from people's pockets via taxes)


    Here is something that will shock you: NOT EVEN MEALS ON WHEELS WORKS THIS WAY. Yup. The majority of Meals on Wheels funding comes from individual and corporate donations. Only 3% of it comes from fed grants. You are crying about 3% and acting like it is 100%. You are acting like that fed funding is the ONLY way Meals on Wheels can survive.




    http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/16/politi...get-blueprint/
    "About 3% of the budget for Meals on Wheels' national office comes from government grants (84% comes from individual contributions and grants from corporations and foundations)"

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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    Right? I post that moving it to the state level or privatizing it are much better options than having fed programs. Then @allegate focuses entirely on the privatizing half as being the only thing I said and as if that half is somehow impossible.

    Of course, it would be a lot easier for private orgs to feed the homeless if shit like this didn't happen: Try to Feed the Homeless and the Food Police Will Bleach Your BBQ
    What's that? I focused on one part of your post and ignored the rest? I have no idea what you're talking about. I don't know anyone at all who does stuff like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    Where do you think the money comes from? Do you REALLY think something like Meals on Wheels can only function if the money comes directly from the federal government? (and thus from people's pockets via taxes)

    Here is something that will shock you: NOT EVEN MEALS ON WHEELS WORKS THIS WAY. Yup. The majority of Meals on Wheels funding comes from individual and corporate donations. Only 3% of it comes from fed grants. You are crying about 3% and acting like it is 100%. You are acting like that fed funding is the ONLY way Meals on Wheels can survive.

    http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/16/politi...get-blueprint/
    "About 3% of the budget for Meals on Wheels' national office comes from government grants (84% comes from individual contributions and grants from corporations and foundations)"
    No, I'm crying about 3% being cut like that 3% is going to be the difference in the budget for that 345th stealth bomber.

  12. #1872
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    republican's continued war upon the poor,WWSD?
    -louie

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    Even though he's an awful Taoiseach, Enda Kenny dragging Trump in front of the press yesterday was wonderful.

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    Urgh that Trump/Merkel video is awkward.

    but Angela Merkel represents everything Trump (or Bannon) hates.....about the modern world..

    Open boarders...globalism...he was so vocal against what she did in 2015...he said she RUINED her country....she has been one of his biggest targets..

    As much as i disagree with him...this video at least proves he does has some sort of ideological motives other than money.

  15. #1875
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    pay attention:
    While you were distracted by his tweets, over 2,000 new bills have been introduced to Congress since Trump took office.
    -Louie

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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    Move it to the state level.

    Or privatize it.
    If either were an option, it would have been done, to reach out to more of the aged community, long ago. The latter only happens when profit is involved. Corporate donations are a write-off for that corporation. MoW is already its own private entity, it's not a government organization. But Federal funding is to cover the shortage that it often experiences, PLUS it saves the government bigger Medicaid expenses. The former isn't possible in many states that already have huge budget deficits, like Illinois. MoW helps save the State and Federal governments money by keeping the aged at home instead of them being in nursing homes on Medicaid (which costs a LOT more).

    That is why Mulvaney is totally full of shit. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...317-story.html

    The WH and Republicans are wringing their hands over the national deficit, and the WH wants to cut these type of expenses plus the EPA (AS IF HUNDREDS OF KIDS WITH LEAD POISONING IN FLINT ISN'T A BIG ENOUGH LESSON WHY A DOLLAR SAVED ON THIS KIND OF SHIT LEADS TO BIG BIG TROUBLE) but forget that the primary REASONS our debt is so high is due to TRILLIONS spent on wars in Iraq and Afghanistan over more than a decade, plus bailing out the country from one of the biggest recessions in history due to THEIR lack of regulations related to securities-backed loans. It's like leaving Grandma out in the forest to die because you spent too much money at the casino.

    The idea that the Federal government should not pay for anything and that each state should, instead, only works if we pay the majority of our income taxes to the state instead of the Feds. But we don't. The vast majority of our income taxes goes to the Feds.

    Meanwhile, THE MAJORITY of my property taxes goes to schools. I don't have any kids. Never did, never will. But I'm PAYING FOR THEM. $5,000 per year of my money goes to kids I don't have in schools that don't make these kids much smarter, since the whole education system has been so dumbed down that we're churning out kids who wouldn't get accepted into the average college 40 years ago. Why can't I get a REFUND? An EXEMPTION? I don't care, make you PARENTS pay for your own kids, split the expense among all of you. Hey, if we can't manage to pay for old people, ain't no good reason for me to pay for your offspring, either. Throw morality out the door and focus strictly on our individual expenses.

    We have the right to DEMAND that the Feds be AUDITED to see how they are REALLY spending OUR MONEY, especially when they claim that feeding old people with OUR MONEY just "doesn't work" even though those old people put hard-earned money into Federal pockets for 50+ years.

    Anyway, the WH budget is for shit. The President doesn't make budgets; CONGRESS does.
    Last edited by allegro; 03-18-2017 at 04:37 PM.

  17. #1877
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    Meanwhile, THE MAJORITY of my property taxes goes to schools. I don't have any kids. Never did, never will. But I'm PAYING FOR THEM. $5,000 per year of my money goes to kids I don't have in schools that don't make these kids much smarter, since the whole education system has been so dumbed down that we're churning out kids who wouldn't get accepted into the average college 40 years ago. Why can't I get a REFUND? An EXEMPTION? I don't care, make you PARENTS pay for your own kids, split the expense among all of you. Hey, if we can't manage to pay for old people, ain't no good reason for me to pay for your offspring, either. Throw morality out the door and focus strictly on our individual expenses.
    I just wrote out a big long thing that expanded on that and just really went total shit-show, doomsday, "we couldn't possibly be any more fucked". Then I realized it's just so damn hard to convey sarcasm that some people might not have gotten it. So instead, just gonna say thanks.

  18. #1878
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    If either were an option, it would have been done, to reach out to more of the aged community, long ago. The latter only happens when profit is involved. Corporate donations are a write-off for that corporation. MoW is already its own private entity, it's not a government organization. But Federal funding is to cover the shortage that it often experiences, PLUS it saves the government bigger Medicaid expenses. The former isn't possible in many states that already have huge budget deficits, like Illinois. MoW helps save the State and Federal governments money by keeping the aged at home instead of them being in nursing homes on Medicaid (which costs a LOT more).
    it already IS being done. As I mentioned above, only 3% of MoW's national funding is from what Trump is cutting. That can easily be made up through an increase in the corp and individual donations that already cover most of MoW. All this public outcry should create enough donation, assuming it's not completely empty crying.

    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    That is why Mulvaney is totally full of shit. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...317-story.html

    The WH and Republicans are wringing their hands over the national deficit, and the WH wants to cut these type of expenses plus the EPA (AS IF HUNDREDS OF KIDS WITH LEAD POISONING IN FLINT ISN'T A BIG ENOUGH LESSON WHY A DOLLAR SAVED ON THIS KIND OF SHIT LEADS TO BIG BIG TROUBLE)
    i'm sure all those lead poisoned kids are so happy the EPA is so great at their job and totally stopped them from getting lead poisoning because the EPA isn't a big bureaucratic mess like every Fed agency. oh wait.

    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    but forget that the primary REASONS our debt is so high is due to TRILLIONS spent on wars in Iraq and Afghanistan over more than a decade, plus bailing out the country from one of the biggest recessions in history due to THEIR lack of regulations related to securities-backed loans. It's like leaving Grandma out in the forest to die because you spent too much money at the casino.
    Yup. Fuck military spending too. That money isn't being taken from grandma, that money is being taken from every tax payer. That money COULD go to grandma and a whole bunch of other worthy causes. You know who has a the best idea on how to allocate your money? You! So the more influence you get on the allocation of your money, the better. The closer to "federal" you get, the less influence you have. And hey, maybe your state would fix its own budgetary problems if enough of the the locals gave a shit about local politics... maybe incentivizing them to give a shit by making it clear that its the local, not POTUS, who has the bulk of the influence on their lives would be a good start there.

    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    The idea that the Federal government should not pay for anything and that each state should, instead, only works if we pay the majority of our income taxes to the state instead of the Feds. But we don't. The vast majority of our income taxes goes to the Feds.
    Yeah, and then the feds redistribute that around to each state. Also, the amount of that big pot that goes to the states vs fed could certainly be changed. Each state can also increase their own taxes to start covering state programs... but hopefully the fed taxes start dropping while this happens. Unfortunately, we have a giant debt to pay off first.

    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    Meanwhile, THE MAJORITY of my property taxes goes to schools. I don't have any kids. Never did, never will. But I'm PAYING FOR THEM. $5,000 per year of my money goes to kids I don't have in schools that don't make these kids much smarter, since the whole education system has been so dumbed down that we're churning out kids who wouldn't get accepted into the average college 40 years ago. Why can't I get a REFUND? An EXEMPTION? I don't care, make you PARENTS pay for your own kids, split the expense among all of you. Hey, if we can't manage to pay for old people, ain't no good reason for me to pay for your offspring, either. Throw morality out the door and focus strictly on our individual expenses.
    There would be a whole lot more to be cut besides 3% to MoW before any sort of schooling offset would be "fair" ... but yeah, let each state figure out what the right balance is with the socialization experiments.


    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    We have the right to DEMAND that the Fed be AUDITED to see how they are REALLY spending OUR MONEY, especially when they claim that feeding old people with OUR MONEY just "doesn't work" even though those old people put hard-earned money into Fed pockets for 50+ years.
    agree. That was one of Ron Paul's big things. Lets also abolish the fed. fuck the fed.

    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    Anyway, the WH budget is for shit. The President doesn't make budgets; CONGRESS does.
    back to my point about the public only focusing on POTUS instead of local. It's the same mentality that gives us "we can only accomplish something if its done at the federal level"
    Last edited by DigitalChaos; 03-18-2017 at 12:35 PM.

  19. #1879
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    it already IS being done. As I mentioned above, only 3% of MoW's national funding is from what Trump is cutting.
    Yes, and I even provided a link that says that. *shrug* The vast majority of funding comes from religious-group funding. But losing that 3% means THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE being affected in each state. So, then what? CAT FOOD!!

    In Illinois, here's our Republican Governor's proposed budget. The problem is that a HUGE amount of our debt goes to PENSIONS. But, people, sorry to say, but pensions are GOING THE WAY OF THE DODO BIRD. Even Air Traffic Controllers don't get old-fashioned pensions, anymore, which were ended by Reagan; instead, they get a hybrid of Social Security combined with a 401K-style pension system. Which is the way of the future. Get used to it. Change is coming. Deal with it.

    In Flint, the Governor and the State diverted the water supply from Lake Huron and started using the polluted Flint River, instead, using an antiquated pipe system that contained lead, without alerting the EPA, first, of the proposed changes, and then LIED by insisting that the lead levels were "totally safe" until pediatricians started reporting that kids had HUGE lead levels in their blood. And the EPA has been SO underfunded for decades, it's totally lost its mojo. We need to INCREASE oversight. Each State needs to be held accountable with fines for violating clean water and lead violations. Actually, fuck making state taxpayers accountable: MAKE THE INDIVIDUAL DECISION-MAKERS ACCOUNTABLE. Fine THEM, send them to fucking JAIL.

    The EPA just announced money YESTERDAY to upgrade the Flint water supply infrastructure. Flint hasn't had safe water since 2014. Kids still have to be bathed in store-bought water. The problem isn't expected to be solved until at least 2018. It's like camping ... FOR FOUR FUCKING YEARS.

    When I said "The Fed" I didn't mean the JUST Federal Reserve: I meant ALL OF THE FEDS. The Federal Government's budget, spending, etc. Audit ALL OF IT. THE WHOLE FUCKING THING.

    I think we should have independent non-partisan reviews of every budget and bill that is ever proposed, with line-by-line analysis, conducted by actual CPAs and economic experts, and not those snake-charmer morons in Washington. I believe that this should also happen on a State and Municipal level.

    When I retire (later this year), I TOTALLY plan to run a blog that publicly exposes the minutes from every single City board meeting from my City, for easy transparency. Right now, these are published but they're BURIED in so much crap on the Municipal web site, nobody except somebody like me, with certification in legal research, is likely to ever find the shit.

    "Oh, hey, look at this: The City just decided to spend ONE MILLION DOLLARS on FLOWERS for the median downtown district. FOR FLOWERS THAT WILL FUCKING DIE. Oh, and with NO BIDS! Hmmmmm, I wonder if my fellow citizens know about this. NOT LIKELY." <--true story.

    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    You know who has a the best idea on how to allocate your money? You! So the more influence you get on the allocation of your money, the better. The closer to "federal" you get, the less influence you have. And hey, maybe your state would fix its own budgetary problems if enough of the the locals gave a shit about local politics... maybe incentivizing them to give a shit by making it clear that its the local, not POTUS, who has the bulk of the influence on their lives would be a good start there.
    Well, you KNOW that I'm already on board with this, I've been saying it for 13 years on this board.

    I have a cheat sheet all planned out: 4 School Board seats are up for grabs, and our local election is in April. I'm choosing the candidates that best serve my views as a property owner WITHOUT kids who is interested in realistic planning, knowing that a good school system affects my property value, but also that we can't have the convenience of too many schools in a city where 65% of the citizens don't have kids and a huge number are senior citizens on fixed incomes who've lived here for nearly 50 years; we have to close a few schools, and focus the money where it will be better spent on the continuation of the dual-language program, the inclusion of humanities programs, smaller class sizes, etc. and not on "oh my kid only walks a block to a school that's half-full."
    Last edited by allegro; 03-18-2017 at 01:10 PM.

  20. #1880
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    ^ So fix your own state! Federal shouldn't be welfare for states who's voters produce shit results because they aren't engaged. Federal should only be stepping in to protect constitutional rights.

    More oversight is good, but Federal doesn't have to be that oversight. In many situations, they do shit work and are insanely inefficient.

    As for independent budget reviews, we should have independent reviews of EVERY type of proposal. To some extent we already do, but voters don't listen. They pick whatever fits their existing agenda. More reason to stop letting them impact the lives of everyone possible and consolidate that as close to the individual as possible. People need to feel the consequences of their votes. When this happens, not only are they incentivized to make better votes, but they feel the POWER of their own vote. It's a shift from the growing voter apathy. Give people their agency and let them FEEL the good and bad of that agency. This applies to so many situations. Its the Trump supporters who are suddenly shocked that they are losing their federal jobs after Trump gained power. We need more of that!

  21. #1881
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    More oversight is good, but Federal doesn't have to be that oversight. In many situations, they do shit work and are insanely inefficient.
    States have oversight, but state government is sometimes corrupted by high-level greed that goes all the way down to the bottom. Example: The GREED in Michigan that resulted in the Flint water crisis was totally bipartisan, with contract workers only interested in "what's in it for me?" $$$ results and not the people living in poverty in Flint. Remember, Flint had already gone broke and was bankrupt and the State was overseeing Flint's finances. The Flint mayor had ZERO power, the Flint voters had zero power, the State was running Flint carte blanch doing whatever it wanted, making STUPID decisions, then lying about it to the oversight of the EPA and fighting the EPA, using the loophole of an old law that wasn't intended to poison children. The Governor should be in JAIL; at least the EPA is finally helping to protect the citizens of Flint, who have the right to clean water and life.
    Last edited by allegro; 03-19-2017 at 12:06 AM.

  22. #1882
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    turns out actual problem solving is hard work, it take long hours of planning running endless what if scenarios data collection and analysis waiting for fact based results, it's a lot easier and faster to just blame the "other" guy which is why we'll see much more of the same until the end
    -Louie

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    @allegro - what aspect of governance allowed IL to be so corrupt? And more importantly, what's so special about the Federal govt that would prevent that same type of corruption?

    And since I am trying to understand a seemingly disconnected logic, let's throw in: why is stopping other states from becoming as corrupt as IL?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    @allegro - what aspect of governance allowed IL to be so corrupt? And more importantly, what's so special about the Federal govt that would prevent that same type of corruption?

    And since I am trying to understand a seemingly disconnected logic, let's throw in: why is stopping other states from becoming as corrupt as IL?
    Illinois isn't corrupt.

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    Sorry. Michigan.
    The "state government is sometimes corrupted by high level greed that goes all the way to the bottom" bit that you said.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    Sorry. Michigan.
    The "state government is sometimes corrupted by high level greed that goes all the way to the bottom" bit that you said.
    I already said why in a prior post.

    I am not bothering to get into this circle jerk with you. I don't have the time nor energy. You never "try to understand" anything. You just pontificate.

    I'm over this thread.

    Edit: Except this:

    Last edited by allegro; 03-19-2017 at 07:45 AM.

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    And yet, over 62 million people literally went "yes, he's more qualified for the job than someone with a law degree from Yale and decades of political experience" - AFTER somehow also deciding he was more qualified than every Republican he was up against in the primary (the fact that Kasich was basically ignored because he was the only one speaking calmly and intelligently during debates drove me crazy).

    I want to laugh at the memes, but it's both scary and depressing to realize that it's not just a fluke that he's the one in charge. He really is an appropriate symbol of how bad things have gotten in this country.

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    Trump 2017: Year Zero

    lol. Even Mother Jones says you guys are being silly about Meals on Wheels.
    http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2017/03/meals

    That's a much heavier take than what I supplied. That cut is so tiny and so hypocritical for people to bash Trump about.

  29. #1889
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    you guys are being silly. so hypocritical.

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    Such silly. Much hypocrisy. Wow.

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