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Thread: Trump 2017: Year Zero

  1. #1291
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deepvoid View Post
    Trump got duped by some fake news from Fox regarding Sweden.

    http://www.dn.se/kultur-noje/nyheter...r-is-a-madman/

  2. #1292
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sallos View Post
    What does have anything to do with the fake events that allegedly took place this past Friday?

    Sweden immigration's policies have nothing to do with what Trump said. This is NOT about refugees.
    I wanna facepalm your post so badly. Can anyone do it for me please?

  3. #1293
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deepvoid View Post
    I wanna facepalm your post so badly. Can anyone do it for me please?
    You're welcome

    EDIT: Also, referring to refugees as "importing rape" is fuckin' ignorant and racist, doesn't matter how many "police reports" the guy is waving around. We're just learning that many of the German new years eve mass rapes were fabricated racist fantasies, and degrading the refugees to sex craved twentysomethings is false... Also know as... wait for it... It's FAKE NEWS!!!!
    Last edited by hellospaceboy; 02-20-2017 at 10:49 AM.

  4. #1294
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deepvoid View Post
    What does have anything to do with the fake events that allegedly took place this past Friday?

    Sweden immigration's policies have nothing to do with what Trump said. This is NOT about refugees.
    I wanna facepalm your post so badly. Can anyone do it for me please?
    The video answered that, if you don't think it pertains to what was said, is being said about Sweden that's your problem.

  5. #1295
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    Quote Originally Posted by hellospaceboy View Post
    You're welcome

    EDIT: Also, referring to refugees as "importing rape" is fuckin' ignorant and racist,
    Apparently it is factual.

    We're just learning that many of the German new years eve mass rapes were fabricated racist fantasies, and degrading the refugees to sex craved twentysomethings is false... Also know as... wait for it... It's FAKE NEWS!!!!
    I only found articles saying that the Frankfurt new years was fabricated, unlike the Cologne one, which one your referring to? or both.

  6. #1296
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    fun
    -louie

  7. #1297
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    I watched that Swedish guy's video and he sounds pretty intelligent and unbiased, he is talking from the perspective of a resident of Sweden who is pro-immigration but thinks that Sweden has gone about this in a dumb way, and he is speaking to the increase in incidents of sexual harassment, rape, etc. And that is probably due to cultural differences, not all religious differences, although I do think that Islam has a different (subservient) view of women than sectarian societies. But the guy has a bunch of valid points.

    Now, how that relates to Trump and his extemporaneous statements vs. his platform and goals that he alleges are the goals of the majority of American people, etc.: We can't speak about Sweden as Swedish citizens because we're not; we're American citizens who ALREADY have problems with rape, sexual assault, sexual harassment, far more than that of Sweden, although the numbers have shown a decline the numbers in this country also don't reflect the fact that rape is very much underreported. Which is not tied to immigration, since it's our own American-born citizens who are committing these crimes. And maybe Sweden does in fact have statistics that show that newly-imported citizens who don't have the same cultural background as Swedish citizens don't necessarily subscribe to the same values as Swedish citizens and this has resulted in the increase of crimes against women or whomever.

    But, we have to step back and say: "Okay, what does that have to do with US? The United States? What was President Trump saying, implying, by listing off these cities across the world, which were a combination of cities that have experienced Islamic terrorist attacks and a huge influx of Syrian refugee immigration? What is he trying to SAY, here?"

    So we can look at OUR country, OUR stats, not at other countries:


    1) We experienced the largest act of Islamic terrorism in the history of the world, committed by citizens of Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates; all of those citizens were, at the time, on expired Visas. Those two countries are NOT on the current list of "Seven."

    2) The alleged "Islamic" terrorism that HAS occurred in this country since 9/11 has been conducted SOLELY (with the exception of the K1 Visa wife of the San Bernadino terrorists) by United States citizens.

    3) If the U.S. was a totally safe country, mostly free of rapes, murders, shootings, robbery, etc. etc., then maybe we could view the immigration thing through the eyes of Sweden. But, Sweden is paradise and the U.S. is "Escape from New York" by comparison. We already HAVE these problems, committed by U.S. citizens. But, Trump points out crimes committed by Islamic terrorists and undocumented immigrants as if THAT is the "problem" and if we "fix" that, we're gonna be The Garden of Eden.

    4) Trump can't even manage to get past the "we're gonna take care of LAW AND ORDER in this Country!" rhetoric by providing real ACTION. So far, he has bitched about Chicago incessantly but has done NOTHING to assist Chicago. Not.one.thing.

    5) So, why all this rhetoric? It's simple: He's very cognizant of fear in this country. It doesn't matter that we have security UP THE ASS everywhere, which is far tighter than that of any other country in the world, and which of course has compromised our liberty, but has been conducted under rhetoric like "DON'T YOU REMEMBER SEPTEMBER 11?" or "It's a price worth paying for our safety!" and "If i have to be butt-probed to insure safety, then give me the butter!!"

    6) And, given all that, he's PT Barnum: he's giving people what they want: More fear. And who is gonna FIX that fear? Why, DONALD TRUMP, of course. ONLY HE can fix this, remember? He is going to MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN. Not that it isn't treasonous to imply that America isn't ALREADY great; no, see, America SUCKS and HE is gonna make it GREAT. Again. See all these other shitty countries? Yeah, we're gonna learn from their shit and be better!! No, don't look at OUR OWN SHIT, look at the OTHER shit. Fuck our own shit, although we can complain about it a lot, let's bitch and moan and whine and then don't DO anything, except maybe blame others for our own shit. And the dumb people yell "Yeah Fuck yeah! Fuck those niggers! Fuck those Mexicans! Fuck those towel heads!! Send 'em out, get 'em out!"

    And it's like a Nuremberg rally. All blowing each other to get rid of those "other" people.

    But, NOT guys like THIS:




    Last edited by allegro; 02-20-2017 at 11:41 AM.

  8. #1298
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    You can't justify a bad example by giving another. Just because the US has problems with crime and rape already doesn't make it alright to bring more potential individuals who would further contribute to those problems. Hence why a reasonable immigration policy reform is needed. The debate of whether the current policy is suffice or not is another issue.

    At this point i just think Trump is delivering on yet another promised he made during the campaign, which was to halt or vet more thoroughly people who came from a specific part of the world, who have wrecked havoc in every country with a significant Muslim population. Trump's presidency so far has been to deliver the promises he made during campaign, if there's anything that Trump will take out to 2020 is that he, unlike other politicians, delivers on those promises.

    Frankly i think the problem is not the vetting, but whether the immigrants integrate or not, and you don't see much discussion about that either.

  9. #1299
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sallos View Post
    You can't justify a bad example by giving another. Just because the US has problems with crime and rape already doesn't make it alright to bring more potential individuals who would further contribute to those problems. Hence why a reasonable immigration policy reform is needed. The debate of whether the current policy is suffice or not is another issue.

    At this point i just think Trump is delivering on yet another promised he made during the campaign, which was to halt or vet more thoroughly people who came from a specific part of the world, who have wrecked havoc in every country with a significant Muslim population. Trump's presidency so far has been to deliver the promises he made during campaign, if there's anything that Trump will take out to 2020 is that he, unlike other politicians, delivers on those promises.

    Frankly i think the problem is not the vetting, but whether the immigrants integrate or not, and you don't see much discussion about that either.
    Have you ever tried to get into the United States? We already HAVE "extreme vetting." It can take YEARS. Why do you think all of these people from Central America and Mexico and Cuba came here undocumented? Because it's so fucking hard to get in here.

    Trump in fact has NOT delivered on most promises. His promise to "drain the swamp?" He filled it with pork. His promise to "get rid of Obamacare within the first 10 days?" Yeah, right. His promise to never touch Social Security and Medicare? He already hired Price who has vowed to get rid of same, with the help of Paul Ryan. Now, of course, it's only less than a month into his Presidency. And, yes, he promised to do something about immigration but even THAT has been done as if a drunk wrote up the papers. The shoddiest most ridiculous "ban" in history, which included banning Green Card holders who've been living here and paying taxes for decades. His "only deport the criminal Mexicans" has morphed into "if you weren't born here and you're undocumented, YOU'RE UNDER ARREST." He broke all those promises. So, no, he's not an unusual politician so far, he's just more of the same shit we always see. Except he's dumber.

    We have seen discussions about vetting since September 11th. You don't live here, so you don't know. It's a constant rock-hard-place situation related to our Constitution, liberty, and how security fits into the big picture of liberty, and if we can have both liberty and security, etc. The whole Snowden Manning Wikileaks scandal related to the NSA and SPYING on immigrants but the NSA is also spying on US citizens and people in other countries including the PM of Germany, etc. We HAVE extreme vetting. LOTS of it. We don't and never have had "open" borders, except for those giant borders that aren't secured due to terrain. Go look at the history of . EVERYONE in the US comes from immigrants, except for Native Americans. ALL OF US.
    Last edited by allegro; 02-20-2017 at 12:08 PM.

  10. #1300
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    Like i said the problem is not the vetting, Its whether they integrate in the society or not, and most of them do, in part because US is a capitalist society that rewards merit, unlike in Europe where the welfare state, for better and for worse rewards mediocrity.

  11. #1301
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sallos View Post
    Like i said the problem is not the vetting, Its whether they integrate in the society or not, and most of them do, in part because US is a capitalist society that rewards merit, unlike in Europe where the welfare state, for better and for worse rewards mediocrity.

    I live around a bunch of Polish immigrants who don't want to "integrate" with American citizens; they stick to hanging out with other Polish, only speaking Polish unless when necessary, sending their children to Polish school, shopping at Polish stores, vacationing at Polish resorts. But, nobody cares about that, no Trump fans are saying "SEND THOSE FUCKING POLOCKS BACK TO POLAND IF THEY DON'T LIKE IT HERE AND IT'S SO FUCKING GREAT IN POLAND." So, the "problem" has nothing to do with not "integrating." It's more related to "othering" and prejudices.

    The U.S. has a history of HATING Irish immigrants. For no valid reason other than just another group to kick. They were called horrible names, treated terribly. And that scapegoat group evolves here regularly. Hungarians are dirty Hunkies. Germans are Krauts. Mexicans are Spicks and Beaners. Polish are Dumb Polocks, there are BOOKS of nothing but Polish and Russian jokes.

    It's a game of "where I came from is better than where you came from."
    Last edited by allegro; 02-20-2017 at 12:15 PM.

  12. #1302
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    There are always groups who'll refuse to integrate, Hasidic jews don't either. Difference being so far the pollock and jews haven't carried out any attack on the west or western values. Can you name me when was the last time a polish guy threatened,tried or killed someone for making fun of the pope? Arabs, and muslisms, unlike the jews and those polish people you know are far more resistant to said integration.

  13. #1303
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sallos View Post
    There are always groups who'll refuse to integrate, Hasidic jews don't either. Difference being so far the pollock and jews haven't carried out any attack on the west or western values. Can you name me when was the last time a polish guy threatened,tried or killed someone for making fun of the pope? Arabs, and muslisms, unlike the jews and those polish people you know are far more resistant to said integration.
    Can you name me a time since September 11th that any immigrant has caused any action of Terror in the United States? Besides the aforementioned San Bernadino K1 fiance?

    We have MILLIONS of Muslims in this country, already, who are very successful and educated and are integral to our capitalist system.

    Hasidic Jews assimilate here just fine, as part of the capitalist system. Catholics weren't supposed to go to the YMCA for generations (not a Catholic organization); that doesn't mean they haven't 'assimilated' into our system.

    This country doesn't have a singular "national identity" or "culture." Ours is "melting pot" of dozens and dozens of other cultures that melt into one national identity. The only way we "assimilate" is to accept that we are the epitome of "The West."
    Last edited by allegro; 02-20-2017 at 12:32 PM.

  14. #1304
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    Can you name me a time since September 11th that any immigrant has caused any action of Terror in the United States? Besides the aforementioned San Bernadino K1 fiance?

    We have MILLIONS of Muslims in this country, already, who are very successful and educated and are integral to our capitalist system.

    Hasidic Jews assimilate here just fine, as part of the capitalist system. Catholics weren't supposed to go to the YMCA for generations (not a Catholic organization); that doesn't mean they haven't 'assimilated' into our system.
    No but i can name terrorist attempts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sallos View Post
    No but i can name terrorist attempts.
    And I can name examples of white Christians who have actually committed terrorist acts because they hate minorities, whose names don't escape Trump's mouth because they don't play into his agenda.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinsai View Post
    And I can name examples of white Christians who have actually committed terrorist acts because they hate minorities, whose names don't escape Trump's mouth because they don't play into his agenda.
    Which white Christians are trying to enter your country that need vetting?

  17. #1307
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sallos View Post
    Which white Christians are trying to enter your country that need vetting?
    Every single white Christian who wants to immigrate to this country?! We DO vet people. Everyone who wants to come here gets vetted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sallos View Post
    Which white Christians are trying to enter your country that need vetting?
    We scrutinize everybody, now, including Christians. For many years, we had a "preferred" list but those days are long gone.

    @Jinsai 's point is that we have to focus on preventing our own CITIZENS from not committing acts of terrorism or other violent acts, which we can't seem to do, despite lots of added security. Now, we all have to be frisked and wanded at pretty much all big events after the Boston Bombing.

    My friend is a college professor and they now go through "shooter training" on what to do if a shooter shows up on campus and starts shooting people. Which of course is not related to international terrorism but is a big reality for us, due to so many school shootings. I know a professor who was shot here at Northern Illinois University during a mass shooting.

  19. #1309
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    john hit's it out of the park again
    -Louie
    Last edited by Louie_Cypher; 02-20-2017 at 03:15 PM.

  20. #1310
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    This is fucking terrifying. I haven't been able to personally verify the email itself, but the context is legit - the survey has been re-released at a new address. It's IP blocked (so you can't even take it on two computers in the same house), but I was able to take this one while the old one still won't let me back in. So that makes me think this is actually authentic.

    Here's the "new" link (for the exact same survey, again): https://action.donaldjtrump.com/main...bility-survey/

    Please, please take the 60 seconds needed to fill this out. I don't care that it has no scientific merit, because his supporters don't care either. If the White House likes the numbers they see, they'll flaunt it as scientific fact from the press room, and Donald's supporters will believe it because "how could it be a lie if the poll numbers said so???"

    If nothing else, read the text in that image. I mean, really read it. Let it sink in. I'm fucking scared.

  21. #1311
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    Quote Originally Posted by theimage13 View Post

    This is fucking terrifying. I haven't been able to personally verify the email itself, but the context is legit - the survey has been re-released at a new address. It's IP blocked (so you can't even take it on two computers in the same house), but I was able to take this one while the old one still won't let me back in. So that makes me think this is actually authentic.

    Here's the "new" link (for the exact same survey, again): https://action.donaldjtrump.com/main...bility-survey/

    Please, please take the 60 seconds needed to fill this out. I don't care that it has no scientific merit, because his supporters don't care either. If the White House likes the numbers they see, they'll flaunt it as scientific fact from the press room, and Donald's supporters will believe it because "how could it be a lie if the poll numbers said so???"

    If nothing else, read the text in that image. I mean, really read it. Let it sink in. I'm fucking scared.
    Done. Hopefully, results are gonna get skewed again.

  22. #1312
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    Rand Paul was on TV yesterday saying what Trump SAYS and what Trump DOES are two different things. MANY Presidents have feuded with the media. If Trump tries to pass a LAW restricting the media, THEN he can and will be called out for violating the very specific portion of the 1st Amendment providing freedom of the press (and maybe that will be a nail in his coffin -- it sure was for Nixon).

  23. #1313
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    Rand Paul was on TV yesterday saying what Trump SAYS and what Trump DOES are two different things. MANY Presidents have feuded with the media. If Trump tries to pass a LAW restricting the media, THEN he can and will be called out for violating the very specific portion of the 1st Amendment providing freedom of the press (and maybe that will be a nail in his coffin -- it sure was for Nixon).
    That is true.

    However, if he gets 62,000,000 people to think that the legitimate media are lying, then there's still this huge fucking problem of people now making their voting decisions based on utter bullshit - more so than the usual "politicians lie" type of stuff that we've always had on both sides. If the whole freaking right suddenly believes that real news is fake and fake news is real, that opens the door to the president being able to make up laws based on "facts" that aren't true, and his own party will go right along with it because the voters will be too stupid to see through it and complain to their elected officials about it.

    I get your point about violating specific laws and trying to actually restrict the media through law vs just slandering them. And I get that social media jockeys everywhere (myself included) are allowed to call whatever we want "fake news". To me though, it feels like if the President of the United States of America stands up and says "black isn't black, black is white" when talking about a MAJOR news outlet, that there aught to be some sort of legal recourse. I'm not saying there IS. I'm just saying it feels like there should be.

    Let me put it to you this way: some blogger said the first lady used to be an escort. She sued his ass and won (well, settled out of court - I'm sure she made out far better than the blogger). So if POTUS can stand behind a podium and say "CNN is fake news", why can't they sue him? If he's actively seeking to damage their reputation and cost them money/business, isn't that defamation? Blogger lies about Trump, blogger loses. Trump lies about news outlet...media outlet loses. What does it take to beat the president?

  24. #1314
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    incoming poll results: 99.8% of Americans approve of everything Trump has said and done.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sallos View Post
    Like i said the problem is not the vetting, Its whether they integrate in the society or not, and most of them do, in part because US is a capitalist society that rewards merit, unlike in Europe where the welfare state, for better and for worse rewards mediocrity.
    The UK isnt like that at all, benefits will be withdrawn if you don't work or look for work. We send people dying from cancer back to work. What you're saying is pretty standard rightist agitprop

  26. #1316
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinsai View Post
    incoming poll results: 99.8% of Americans approve of everything Trump has said and done.
    Seriously?

  27. #1317
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    What poll?

  28. #1318
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    Trump's special alternative fact poll.

  29. #1319
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    Trump's special alternative fact poll.
    So I guess we're the 0.02% who are speaking false things according to him.

  30. #1320
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinsai View Post
    incoming poll results: 99.8% of Americans approve of everything Trump has said and done.
    Pretty sure (at least, I hope to god) that this is just a joke about what I posted on the last page.

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