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Thread: Trump 2017: Year Zero

  1. #4531
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweeterthan View Post
    I’m reading that he was able to purchase the guns. Somewhere something failed.
    Yes, see the article I linked above.

    We enact laws in an attempt to deter crime; we can't prevent crime.

    We read the paper about a robbery occurring, but there are laws against robbery, and we have police to enforce those laws, but robberies still happen. So do murders, kidnappings, shootings, domestic violence, sexual assaults, etc. Laws can convict the person AFTER THE FACT but we have no real way to prevent the crimes from happening. With firearms, each state has to have a database that will either be maintained to enforce both state and Federal laws or is in conjunction with the Federal database to enforce those laws. But, these databases -- like most other databases -- are dependent on input by human beings and are full of errors and omissions. So, do we pass a law to enforce databases? Okay, how does that work, exactly? Daily inspections of databases? How do we know who or what's supposed to be in those databases, without cross-referencing missing data? Even the Federal database is flawed, as was evidenced by Dyllan Roof and the FBI database.

    Then, let's ask the question of "why do people commit these crimes?"

    Canada has an estimated 30.8 guns per 100 residents.

    The population of Canada as of 2016 is 35,151,728.

    So let's do the math:

    35,151,728 divided by 100 = 351,517 x 30.8 = 1,826,732 guns in Canada. (In the U.S., as of 2009, there were 300 million guns, or 101 guns per 100,000 people.)

    How many shootings are there in Canada?

    Canada has had some gun massacres.

    But here's the firearm homicide rate by comparison:



    Okay, but we often focus on these "mass shootings" but the U.S. is a fuckload more gun-happy than THAT.

    Let's look at the increasing incidents of firearms and road rage.

    I've had to drum it into my 80-yr-old Mother's head that she CAN'T flip off people on the road who cut her off, anymore, unless she wants to get shot in the head from road rage.
    Last edited by allegro; 11-06-2017 at 05:21 PM.

  2. #4532
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    I've had to drum it into my 80-yr-old Mother's head that she CAN'T flip off people on the road who cut her off, anymore, unless she wants to get shot in the head from road rage.
    Anymore? My mom drummed that into my head before I was even 10. My better half did it to someone (who admittedly almost killed us) on the highway and it was the closest I've ever come to actually yelling at her.

  3. #4533
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    We enact laws in an attempt to deter crime; we can't prevent crime.

    We read the paper about a robbery occurring, but there are laws against robbery, and we have police to enforce those laws, but robberies still happen. So do murders, kidnappings, shootings, domestic violence, sexual assaults, etc. Laws can convict the person AFTER THE FACT but we have no real way to prevent the crimes from happening. With firearms, each state has to have a database that will either be maintained to enforce both state and Federal laws or is in conjunction with the Federal database to enforce those laws. But, these databases -- like most other databases -- are dependent on input by human beings and are full of errors and omissions. So, do we pass a law to enforce databases? Okay, how does that work, exactly? Daily inspections of databases? How do we know who or what's supposed to be in those databases, without cross-referencing missing data? Even the Federal database is flawed, as was evidenced by Dyllan Roof and the FBI database.

    Then, let's ask the question of "why do people commit these crimes?"
    I'd rather focus on harm prevention. If you reduce the number of guns people have, you'll reduce the amount of gun deaths.

    It's not a 100% solution, but if we can save 90% of the lives of those who would be murdered by guns, that's a big improvement over where things are right now.

  4. #4534
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    Quote Originally Posted by eskimo View Post
    I'd rather focus on harm prevention. If you reduce the number of guns people have, you'll reduce the amount of gun deaths.

    It's not a 100% solution, but if we can save 90% of the lives of those who would be murdered by guns, that's a big improvement over where things are right now.
    We will never reduce the number of guns out there now unless we find a way to enforce existing laws, confiscating illlegal guns, conducting “buy-back” programs, etc.

    We could enact future limits on the number of guns per household, etc. but those laws have to be enforced in some way — 100% accurate state databases, the inability to buy a gun online or in a state not on your driver’s licenses, but I’m afraid that states won’t cooperate with each other until something exceptionally horrible happens that upsets the governments.

    Last time that happened was when the President was shot (Reagan). I’m not advocating shooting a President but when Reagan was shot, Reagan, Ford and Clinton all advocated for new Federal gun laws. But, again, laws that can’t be enforced aren’t useful laws. Until we come up with an accurate way to handle the logistics and costs of enforcing strict laws, while also honoring states’ rights, we can only attempt normal methods of prevention: metal detectors, security, cameras, etc. AND we need stronger sentences for gun offenders.

    Gangs in Chicago have a motto: “I’d rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.”
    Last edited by allegro; 11-06-2017 at 08:21 PM.

  5. #4535
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    I'm with Trump (never dreamed i would say that) on this one. This tragedy is NOT about guns. @allegro , you finally answered my question about gun violence in the U.S. : we live in a violent country.
    I've never thought about it that way, but I think that you're right.

  6. #4536
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    We are a VIOLENT country. Although, not as violent as countries in Central America.
    Violence that the US introduced while meddling in the region's affairs.

  7. #4537
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baphomette View Post
    Violence that the US introduced while meddling in the region's affairs.
    True true

  8. #4538
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    Quote Originally Posted by elevenism View Post
    I'm with Trump (never dreamed i would say that) on this one. This tragedy is NOT about guns. @allegro , you finally answered my question about gun violence in the U.S. : we live in a violent country.
    I've never thought about it that way, but I think that you're right.
    I think it's a sort of old school protestant type of violence. In that on the surface, to me, it would seem other cultures countries may be more superficially more violent. (?) Where as here in the states it sits and festers away until it becomes a full blown infection of the spirit to some degree. I would say similar with how we express sexuality, and don't. As for the Gun issue, i'm afraid that cat has long since left the bag. It would take extreme and drastic measures to rein that beast in. Something which our politicians and most Americans, i feel, would have a huge issue with. Regardless of how much sense it makes for the overall betterment of society. At this point a full stop on manufacturing outside of the military wouldn't do much good, if any. I may be way off base here but in a sense it reminds me of the global warming issue to a degree, in that nobody really has a clear plan of what to do.

  9. #4539
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    How about we just admit that no additional gun control is needed here?

    The Air Force failed to send the conviction to the FBI. Had they done this, the shooter wouldn't have been given the gun.
    https://twitter.com/npr/status/927656716044587008


    If your response to this is "we need more gun control" then you deserve nothing.

  10. #4540
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    How about we just admit that no additional gun control is needed here?

    The Air Force failed to send the conviction to the FBI. Had they done this, the shooter wouldn't have been given the gun.
    https://twitter.com/npr/status/927656716044587008


    If your response to this is "we need more gun control" then you deserve nothing.
    Fuck that. Your country has mass shootings with alarming frequency. In this one, the "good guy with a gun" defence that's always used by gun advocates to avoid more gun control regulation was invoked by president blowhard as an example of something to be thankful for, and 26 people died. The "good guy with a gun" solution isn't a solution.

    Throwing your hands up and saying it's impossible when there are countless other countries out there that have highly effective prevention laws is the laziest thing you could do.

    If your laws are unenforceable, then FIX THEM! If it takes a president getting shot for anyone to give a shit, that's just another example of your country not caring about anyone but the wealthiest in it. People are dying but, hey now, let's get hasty and even try to prevent it, because the state's have rights too.

    You don't want to do anything about the frequent mass shootings in your country, then that's fine, but at least state that instead of hiding behind bullshit about it being impossible.

  11. #4541
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    Deserve nothing? I think we’re getting what we deserve for not doing something sooner. Hoping this is what we need for people to wake the fuck up.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  12. #4542
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    That comes off like someone who's only bag of tricks is "add more govt" which is odd considering it's the govt who failed to carry a process that would have stopped this.


    Why the fuck is this in the Trump thread again? Are we finally admitting that this is the general US politics thread now instead only complaining when Hillary is mentioned?

  13. #4543
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    Trump 2017: Year Zero

    Speaking of Hillary. Holy shit what is Donna Brazille doing. She dedicated her book to Seth Rich and talks about his death made her fear for her own life.

    http://www.newsweek.com/donna-brazil...y-702838?amp=1


    This is the biggest dog whistle to the Anti-Hillary people ever.

  14. #4544
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    Quote Originally Posted by eskimo View Post
    You don't want to do anything about the frequent mass shootings in your country.
    Mass shootings isn’t even the biggest problem we have with guns; have you seen how many people are killed by cops, here, each year? Or stats for high-crime urban areas?

    Chicago had 47 EXPRESSSWAY shootings last year, we had 26 as of July this year.

    PLEASE READ THIS ARTICLE.

    There are more murders in Chicago each year than in New York and Los Angeles combined. But it isn’t the deadliest large city in America.
    There is no American city more synonymous with gun violence than Chicago. Last year, the city recorded 762 homicides, and more than 3,000 shooting incidents — the most in more than two decades. But on a per-capita basis, Chicago’s homicide rate is lower than seven other cities. In St. Louis, for instance, the homicide rate is twice as high as it is in Windy City.
    A woman is shot by her partner every 16 hours.
    At least 6,875 people in the U.S. were fatally shot by romantic partners between 2006 and 2014, an analysis by the Associated Press found. Eighty percent of those victims were women. We did the math: that works out to at least 554 women fatally shot by a current or former romantic partner during the nine years examined — or one every 16 hours.
    America has more guns than cars. And more gun stores than coffee shops.
    American gun ownership has radically changed in the past two decades, defined now by the sheer ubiquity of civilian-owned firearms. The National Firearms Survey, conducted by public health researchers at Harvard and Northeastern universities, was the first comprehensive measure of gun owners’ habits and attitudes since 1994. It found that Americans own approximately 265 million firearms, an increase of 70 million since the last time such a survey was conducted. Most of that increase was due to a surge in the popularity of handguns, as more Americans buy weapons primarily to defend themselves from others rather than to hunt. A gun-hungry America is served by approximately 60,000 licensed gun retailers — almost double the number of coffee shops in the country.
    SEE ALSO THIS ARTICLE.




    This isn’t simple. We aren’t other countries. We aren’t stupid. If there was an easy fix, it would have been done already.

    Putting this back on the topic of this thread (although it’s still drift, dunno why this has not yet been split):

    You know the biggest reason why Trump is in office?

    Guns.
    Last edited by allegro; 11-07-2017 at 12:22 PM.

  15. #4545
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    We are stupid. We keep electing people who do nothing. There are plenty of fixes proposed year after year. Biden tried to get sweeping gun control reform through congress after sandy hook but our paid by the NRA congress didn't do a damn thing.

  16. #4546
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    The problem IS that voters are so adamantly grounded in their love for guns that the very notion of new legislation is immediately met with resistance, and moaning about slippery slopes. I had a few completely insane arguments following the Vegas shooting with people who resisted the idea of banning bumper stocks for that exact reason - it's a slippery slope and it'll accomplish nothing.

    No, it's not a slippery slope, it's a reinforcement of a law we passed banning fully automatic weapons; a law we all pretty much agreed was a-OK. So if there's something out there that circumvents the law, you outlaw it.

    But no, there's a deep love for high powered guns in this country. People want their AR-15s. OK.... you've got them. I get that we're going to have a hard time taking them from your cold dead hands. So let's just meet halfway and get rid of this bumper thing?

  17. #4547
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    I'm moving my response to the above comment to the appropriate thread.
    Last edited by allegro; 11-07-2017 at 05:29 PM.

  18. #4548
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    New Jersey and Virginia are now Blue states

  19. #4549
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    Quote Originally Posted by onthewall2983 View Post
    New Jersey and Virginia are now Blue states
    Weren’t they pretty much swing states? (Edit: lately, anyway?)

    Yeah VA is pretty much totally blue now

    BYE BYE CHRIS CHRISTIE in NJ lol

    Governor elections are always really local elections.

    ALABAMA is gonna be the interesting vote.
    Last edited by allegro; 11-07-2017 at 09:13 PM.

  20. #4550
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    THIS is historic

    Democrat Danica Roem ousted longtime incumbent Del. Robert G. Marshall (R) Tuesday, becoming the first openly transgender elected official in Virginia — and one of very few in the nation.

    The race between Roem, 33, and Marshall, 73, focused on traffic and other local issues in Prince William County but also exposed the nation’s fault lines over gender identity. It pitted a local journalist who began her physical gender transition four years ago against an outspoken social conservative who has referred to himself as Virginia’s “chief homophobe” earlier this year introduced a “bathroom bill” that died in committee.

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    Yes ... The Onion went there. There's no text. Just the headline.

    Roy Moore Refusing To Withdraw From Alabama 13-Year-Old

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    Caption this photo
    Last edited by allegro; 11-15-2017 at 08:13 PM.

  24. #4554
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    tax cuts for my buddies-
    -louie

  25. #4555
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    Caption this photo:

    Did you see the other full-body photo? She looks like she's cosplaying Kylo Ren.

    I just Googled that for the image I was thinking of and found this. I'm so glad they did it so you don't have to imagine what I was imagining.

    https://twitter.com/DustinGiebel/sta...82098029834240

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    I told him “GIMME MONEY” and he printed me some, bitches!!

  27. #4557
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    Never mind that she’s gloating while holding a bunch of 1s.

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    I saw this one posted earlier, lol


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    This smells like my HERMÈS bag and my LOUBOUTIN shoes and my TOM FORD jacket and my GIVENCHY gloves ... never mind that nerd ass to my left ...

  30. #4560
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    Never heard much about his wife before, but wow, she sounds terrible.



    Gonna have to add this one to the scrapbook I'm working on called Why We Need to Get Rid of All the Rich People.

    On and on about her "sacrifice"...jesus christ almighty. lol

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