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Thread: Trump 2017: Year Zero

  1. #3901
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    Bruh its a goddamned tuba with the bell facing forward so the sound projects forward... for marching. sousaphones are fucking marching tubas with basically no difference besides sound projection
    Look at the video again. Note the way it goes over his shoulder and around his back. Very clearly a sousaphone. And I know this is off topic, but goddamnit, it feels good to argue about something less depressing than how horribly our country is being "managed" at the moment.

  2. #3902
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exocet View Post
    How on earth the democratic party was so deluded that they thought anyone would get excited over a 70 year old dated robot Washington elite like Hilary Clinton whose husband had already been president.
    its mind boggling to think that out of a country of 325 million people that was all they had to offer.....
    They had someone better to offer. They offered him. But then they also actively worked to suppress his campaign, which potentially cost him the primary and ultimately the election.

  3. #3903
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    YES. Trump has spoken multiple times on how he doesn't want to hurt the kids protected by DACA, but has pointed out how it is also illegal.
    Dude you should go work for the Trump administration, you spin this shit a lot better than Kellyanne Conway.
    I've never heard this angle before: President Trump: fiscal and scrupulous protector of our legalities.

  4. #3904
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exocet View Post
    How on earth the democratic party was so deluded that they thought anyone would get excited over a 70 year old dated robot Washington elite like Hilary Clinton whose husband had already been president.
    its mind boggling to think that out of a country of 325 million people that was all they had to offer.....
    I was excited about the idea of finally having a female president. I was horrified at the idea of having our first reality TV star president.

    I still don't get how anyone was confused, bigoted, or ignorant enough enough to vote for Donald Trump. LOOK at this motherfucker. You're still arguing that Hillary was a worse choice?! At least my relatives who voted for him regret it, except my brother, but he's kind of like a real-world troll. What's your excuse?

    Oh yeah, you didn't vote for him because you don't fucking live here, but you think people should give a shit about your negative opinion on Hillary.

  5. #3905
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    And the truth is, Hillary was an unusually qualified candidate.

    Yes, she had a hard time connecting with the masses (which also might be the curse of any female candidate for now, the tightrope walk between being "too emotional" and "rigid bitch" with no real room in between -Hillary fell on the rigid bitch end of the scale), still, she was a first lady (so yes, she was exposed to how the white house works), she was a Senator, and then she was a Secretary of State. If this was a job application, it is objectively a good one. She wasn't there "just to cash in on the female vote", she absolutely had something to offer as a candidate.

    It didn't work out, somehow an objectively unqualified white man got the gig.

  6. #3906
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    also, I'm just completely dumbstruck by the negative qualifiers here...

    70 years old? She's 69. Donald Trump is 71.
    Robot? Listen to Trump when he reads off a teleprompter. You might as well throw Autotune on there. There's not enough humanity there for him to know he should immediately decry Nazis without a prepared script.
    Elite??! Donald Trump is the epitome of self-glorified opulence.
    Her husband had already been president... so?! How is that a bad thing really, outside of the fact that she's had 8 years of experience in the White House. President pussy-grabber allegedly violently raped one of his ex-wives. Is that a "better qualification?"
    Dated? What the fuck is that even supposed to mean?

    You want to defend him, go ahead and try, but try to make some goddamn sense.

  7. #3907
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    Quote Originally Posted by theimage13 View Post
    if this was posted on social media by Obama's official WH photographer, it would be a Pete Souzaphone.
    Har har har.

    I don't know much about brass (I was a percussionist) so I looked it up, and it was named after the king of marching music himself, John Philip Sousa. (A school band percussionist's dream) :-)




    Band Geek Drift = OFF



    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    Considering the financial impact of DACA removal is in the billions and it rests entirely on business owners... GOP has pleeeeenty of weight coming from their typical incentive pathways to get this fixed.

    (https://www.cato.org/blog/ending-dac...mpliance-costs)
    That's really interesting, thanks.
    Last edited by allegro; 09-04-2017 at 11:33 PM.

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    Trump 2017: Year Zero

    Quote Originally Posted by aggroculture View Post
    Dude you should go work for the Trump administration, you spin this shit a lot better than Kellyanne Conway.
    I've never heard this angle before: President Trump: fiscal and scrupulous protector of our legalities.
    What spin? The foundations of everything I said are extremely provable. The emotional anti-trump approach has far more spin going on.

    DACA is on very fragile legal grounds and could easily vanish (but without a window for Congress to bridge the gap) if it is proven to violate the law for being an EO. You don't give congress a 6mo window to fill the gap if you simply want DACA gone. DACA removal is something Trump promised on the campaign trail but has had multiple on-the-record statements of his apprehension. It has a lot of the immigration hardliners very pissed off at Trump: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...n-daca/538623/

    And most importantly, 80% of GOP voters support the idea of allowing the "dreamers" to stay.
    Last edited by DigitalChaos; 09-05-2017 at 01:11 AM.

  9. #3909
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    I don't know much about brass (I was a percussionist)
    allegro gets even more awesome today
    what's up fellow percussionist!

  10. #3910
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    what's up fellow percussionist!
    OH MY GOD, YOU TOO?? awesome!

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    "Mr president, will you attack North Korea?"
    "We'll see."

    there were only a couple ways that question could have gotten a worse answer...

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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    The foundations of everything I said are extremely provable.
    Your thesis - that Trump supports DACA and this is his super-smart roundabout way of doing it - is pure bullshit. And you know it.
    Maybe you think he supports ACA too, and he got the GOP to fail on purpose because he secretly wants Obama's policies to succeed...

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    Quote Originally Posted by aggroculture View Post
    Your thesis - that Trump supports DACA and this is his super-smart roundabout way of doing it - is pure bullshit.
    But did you read that (above) article he linked from the Atlantic? It's pretty interesting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Exocet View Post
    How on earth the democratic party was so deluded that they thought anyone would get excited over a 70 year old dated robot Washington elite like Hilary Clinton whose husband had already been president.
    its mind boggling to think that out of a country of 325 million people that was all they had to offer.....
    I would have preferred Bernie to Hillary too, but Hillary VS Trump? She still wins that thing hands-down, any day. This isn't even a competition, they're not even in the same ballpark.

    I looked at Bernie as being as close to radical change as you're likely to get peacefully, Hillary being slow progress and Donald being an absolute nightmare. And for some reason people voted for absolute nightmare.

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    Trump 2017: Year Zero

    Quote Originally Posted by aggroculture View Post
    Your thesis - that Trump supports DACA and this is his super-smart roundabout way of doing it - is pure bullshit.
    Never did I say he supports DACA. Step outside the world false dichotomy and realize more than 2 stances are possible. And what he is doing isn't roundabout. It's probably the most clear path to fixing Obama's brokeass way of implementing this.

    What I said:

    - Trump dislikes the negative outcome, of DACA removal, on the kids protected by it. This does not mean he supports DACA

    - 80% of GOP supports protecting kids in this position. This does not mean 80% of GOP supports DACA.

    - Billions of dollars will come out of the pockets of employers. This does not mean they support DACA.


    Some things that clearly need to be said:

    - there are other ways of doing what DACA was *intended* to do that are better than DACA and in ways that are known to be legal. Those things are not DACA.

    - I don't know what personally Trump thinks of DACA itself, nor do I care.



    If DACA went through the courts, as is currently happening, and was given an immediate death with no delay for Congress to sort things out, how would you act? Would you be screaming at the ghost of Scalia for following the Constitution or would you be screaming at Obama for using Executive Orders to push unconstitutional legislation? (This is rhetorical, lol)

  16. #3916
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    - there are other ways of doing what DACA was *intended* to do that are better than DACA and in ways that are known to be legal. Those things are not DACA.
    Trump wants to give them citizenship? (the only decent thing to be done here): then let him direct Congress Republicans to do so. You may even get enough Republicans to join the Dems on this issue. I won't be holding my breath for this to happen.

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    Bernie didn't apeal to the donors which are the people who really decide the policies, probably would surprise you that Bernie is the most popular politician in America do you think ABC(Disney), https://www.freepress.net/ownership/chart, right left, all the just keep fighting and staring into your phone, and rally round the family with a pocket full of shells
    -Louie

  18. #3918
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    Quote Originally Posted by aggroculture View Post
    Trump wants to give them citizenship? (the only decent thing to be done here): then let him direct Congress Republicans to do so. You may even get enough Republicans to join the Dems on this issue. I won't be holding my breath for this to happen.
    That's kind of a moot point because the Executive Branch can't give citizenship to anybody. The Executive Branch EXECUTES AND ENFORCES existing laws; it doesn't create laws. Congress creates laws. The only time that the Executive Branch creates laws is when it has to do with national security, and those laws are temporary in nature.

    Even Bernie Sanders stated that we need REAL reform; DACA is not real reform.

    http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/19/politi...ion/index.html

    "Until we finally pass comprehensive reform -- and I would very much like to see the House of Representatives pick up where the Senate left off -- we must be aggressive in pursuing policies that are humane and sensible and that keep families together. I strongly support the administration's Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program. DACA is a good first step, but it should be expanded. It is time to bring our neighbors out of the shadows. It is time to give them legal status. It is time to create a reasonable path to citizenship."

    DACA is just a stopgap until something REAL was accomplished.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deferr...dhood_Arrivals

    "DACA allows certain illegal immigrants who entered the country as minors, to receive a renewable two-year period of deferred action from deportation and eligibility for a work permit."

  19. #3919
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    Quote Originally Posted by hellospaceboy View Post
    And the truth is, Hillary was an unusually qualified candidate.

    Yes, she had a hard time connecting with the masses (which also might be the curse of any female candidate for now, the tightrope walk between being "too emotional" and "rigid bitch" with no real room in between -Hillary fell on the rigid bitch end of the scale), still, she was a first lady (so yes, she was exposed to how the white house works), she was a Senator, and then she was a Secretary of State. If this was a job application, it is objectively a good one. She wasn't there "just to cash in on the female vote", she absolutely had something to offer as a candidate.

    It didn't work out, somehow an objectively unqualified white man got the gig.
    Somehow? I'm pretty sure there are plenty of women out there who can testify to this exact situation coming to pass for themselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinsai View Post
    I was excited about the idea of finally having a female president. I was horrified at the idea of having our first reality TV star president.

    I still don't get how anyone was confused, bigoted, or ignorant enough enough to vote for Donald Trump. LOOK at this motherfucker. You're still arguing that Hillary was a worse choice?! At least my relatives who voted for him regret it, except my brother, but he's kind of like a real-world troll. What's your excuse?

    Oh yeah, you didn't vote for him because you don't fucking live here, but you think people should give a shit about your negative opinion on Hillary.

    I'm from Pleasanton California you dope...I don't live in the US anymore..but I have a right to say whatever the fuck I want. about my country of birth..i still have a US passport...im not going to stop..its free speech....i WANT the US to be successful.....


    I'm not really interested in American politics I'm more interested in Eastern Europe....but my former country has fucked up badly....and its a shame..i could see it coming back in July 2016 I was certain Trump would win...people called me a fear monger...but yeah America needs a sort of reformation.

    I want America to be more like its European parents but its incapable of change.
    Last edited by Exocet; 09-05-2017 at 01:36 PM.

  21. #3921
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    "DACA is a good first step, but it should be expanded. It is time to bring our neighbors out of the shadows. It is time to give them legal status. It is time to create a reasonable path to citizenship."
    Congress can start by giving full citizenship to every DACA recipient. Trump can clearly state where he stands on the matter by saying that's what he wants.
    We're playing Through the Looking Glass here btw.

  22. #3922
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    Dude, this country has been "fucked up" in some way since its inception in 1776.

    We've had slaves, racism, sexism, xenophobia, giant wage gaps, too much government spending, not enough government spending, etc. etc. etc.

    But, this country is only 241 years old.

    That's a mere drop in the bucket compared to most countries in Europe.

    Rather than be all hyper about it, exaggerating everything "oh my god this country is so fucked up" or "make America GREAT AGAIN" we need to stress that, really, this country is ALREADY great and just experiences growing pains pretty much all the fucking time. There is no leader or idea that will "fix" everything where we're living in Utopia; we will always have problems, because we are a REALLY BIG country with a shifting population and shifting concerns.

    Anybody who keeps thinking / saying "Hillary is the best the DNC could offer?" doesn't really get how this system works. We had LOTS of other candidates (VOLUNTEERS, this isn't a fucking DRAFT) leading up to the Democratic Primaries:

    * Jim Webb
    * Lincoln Chafee
    * Lawrence Lessig
    * Martin O'Malley
    * Bernie Sanders
    * Hillary Clinton



    Lessig, Webb and Chafee dropped out before the Primary votes (after a few Debates, although Lessig was not eligible for the Debates), and then O'Malley dropped out just after the start of the Primary voting, and Sanders withdrew at the convention.

    The first dropouts were due to polling numbers, and O'Malley dropped out due to polling and early primary returns. Sanders wasn't even a DEMOCRAT until he became one just to run for President because he knew he was even MORE doomed as an Independent.

    And that's NOTHING compared to the CLUSTERFUCK that was the Republican Primary with SIXTEEN PEOPLE running for President, including a former CEO of HP, a former neurosurgeon, and a whole lot of other people I can't even remember at this point.
    Last edited by allegro; 09-05-2017 at 12:48 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aggroculture View Post
    Congress can start by giving full citizenship to every DACA recipient. Trump can clearly state where he stands on the matter by saying that's what he wants.
    We're playing Through the Looking Glass here btw.
    Trump (or any President) is afraid to do that when he / they want to retain control of Congress. They all speak out of both sides of their mouths, equivocating to cover their own asses, particularly Republicans. If a lot of Republicans come out and say "we need a path to citizenship," then others (maybe Trump, who knows, he's WAY too concerned about what the right wing media says about him) in the Republican party will get on board.

    We shall see.

    Congress will either:

    (a) set another delay date and kick the ball forward
    (b) set a clear path to citizenship through legislature
    (c) deport all of them (via pressure from Jeff Sessions, who is a fucking dumb asshole)
    Last edited by allegro; 09-05-2017 at 12:21 PM.

  24. #3924
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    I think this would be a good time for Dems to get some Republicans on board for option b.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aggroculture View Post
    I think this would be a good time for Dems to get some Republicans on board for option b.

    House:
    Republicans 241 seats
    Democrats 194 seats

    Senate:
    Republicans: 52 seats
    Democrats: 46 seats
    Other Parties: 2 Independents (both caucus with the Democrats)

    Congress:
    Total Republicans: 293
    Total Democrats: 242

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    Quote Originally Posted by Exocet View Post
    I'm not really interested in American politics I'm more interested in Eastern Europe....
    Soooo... "I'm not interested in this topic, but let me offer my opinion yet again... and again... and again..."
    i could see it coming back in July 2016 I was certain Trump would win...
    Ok, thanks Nostradamus. NOBODY was certain he'd win. Even the rare pollsters who predicted he'd win wouldn't have been crazy enough to be certain, and he barely squeaked by with an electoral college win. Nate Silver probably has a deeper understanding of this stuff than you, and he gave him shockingly good odds compared to most others, but he still gave him about a 20% or so chance.

    But YOU, despite your disinterest, knew with certainty that the biggest upset in American election history was about to happen. If you're so psychic, I'm sure you're a billionaire.
    Last edited by Jinsai; 09-05-2017 at 02:38 PM.

  27. #3927
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinsai View Post
    Soooo... "I'm not interested in this topic, but let me offer my opinion yet again... and again... and again..."


    Ok, thanks Nostradamus. NOBODY was certain he'd win. Even the rare pollsters who predicted he'd win wouldn't have been crazy enough to be certain, and he barely squeaked by with an electoral college win. Nate Silver probably has a deeper understanding of this stuff than you, and he gave him shockingly good odds compared to most others, but he still gave him about a 20% or so chance.

    But YOU, despite your disinterest, knew with certainty that the biggest upset in American election history was about to happen. If you're so psychic, I'm sure you're a billionaire.
    Nah you can be snarky but many in Europe saw in coming, after Brexit I was certain Trump would win...that was the turning point, I was 100 percent certain Trump would win after Brexti.

    I saw all the white majority counties in England voting for Brexit relentlessly....I just imagined it on a bigger scale in the US.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Exocet View Post
    Nah you can be snarky but many in Europe saw in coming, after Brexit I was certain Trump would win...that was the turning point, I was 100 percent certain Trump would win after Brexti.

    I saw all the white majority counties in England voting for Brexit relentlessly....I just imagined it on a bigger scale in the US.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...state-margins/

    How Trump won the presidency with razor-thin margins in swing states; Of the more than 120 million votes cast in the 2016 election, 107,000 votes in three states effectively decided the election.

    Clinton won decisively in 18 states and D.C., netting her 222 electoral votes. Many of these states are traditional Democratic strongholds that are densely populated and along the coasts.

    Trump won convincingly in 26 states, collecting 227 electoral votes. Most of these states usually vote Republican, except Iowa and Ohio, which voted for Obama in 2008 and 2012.

    Six states were won by margins of less than 2 percent. The four states won by Trump were all won by Obama in 2012. Pennsylvania and Michigan had not voted for a Republican president since voting for George H.W. Bush in 1988. Wisconsin had not gone Republican since 1984.

    It wasn't a landslide Electoral College disparity.

    SEE ALSO.
    Last edited by allegro; 09-05-2017 at 04:34 PM.

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    hahaha. are we really having the "hillary wasn't THAT bad guys!" conversation again, in the midst of the DACA removal?

    fucking LOL

    Hillary Clinton Defends Call To Deport Child Migrants
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b055a6dab24c2f

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