Vinyl Rereleases December 2016 (Broken, TDS, TF)

[Disassociative]

I noticed that the other versions of Mr. Self Destruct on Further Down The Spiral don't have that offset but the instrumental does. Strange.

[Jon]

(think of a sheet of paper with a simple X-Y graph drawn on it; if you draw the axes of the graph even slightly off from the centre of the paper you can only go so far in one direction, so the range of your graph becomes more limited than if you had started in the middle).

If you're having a hard time understanding... this is perfect.

[botley]

I noticed that the other versions of Mr. Self Destruct on Further Down The Spiral don't have that offset but the instrumental does. Strange.

Good catch. It must be something to do with the way the underlying bass/percussion loops are mixed, if it's not present on the remixes. The most common way to get this kind of drastic offset is when you do 'bitcrushing' effects with a computer and then don't filter out the sub-bass frequencies when mixing. That definitely seems to be what's going on with "10 Miles High"; IIRC (don't have the CD in front of me to check), it's not present on the ever-so-slightly remixed Version from Things Falling Apart.

I would suspect that Tom Baker was able to filter the problem sub-bass frequencies when he remastered those tunes, in order to correct the offset and exploit more of the available digital signal (and also to get more loudness on vinyl, which doesn't handle sub-bass or offset waveforms very well at all -- remastering the new vinyl without taking these precautions may have caused the needle to jump on playback or even during lathe cutting).

[Disassociative]

Good catch. It must be something to do with the way the underlying bass/percussion loops are mixed, if it's not so on the remixes... the most common way to get this kind of offset is when you do 'bitcrushing' effects in the computer and don't filter out the sub-bass frequencies. That definitely seems to be what's going on with "10 Miles High"; IIRC (don't have the CD in front of me to check), it's not present on the ever-so-slightly remixed Version from Things Falling Apart.

I'm off my computer and on my iPad now and can't confirm but that sounds right - i reripped all my CDs into lossless recently and from memory all the TFA tracks had standard waveforms (I had errors ripping some CDs so I started checking waveforms for skips or pauses to be safe) while the original 10 Miles High had the offset visible when I was splicing it into the version of The Fragile I had in iTunes until the remasters came out. Spent ages getting 10 Miles High to sync up with the end of TMHBM. Never sounded perfect - if I had headphones on I could hear the slightest little bit of audio jump. Made me very happy when I saw the DE had 10 Miles High and The New Flesh in their right places.

[botley]

I remember being able to splice the CD single version of "10 Miles High" into the original CD ending of "The Mark Has Been Made", but it took a slight amount of cross-fading. You can get a similar effect with the Definitive Edition by starting "10 Miles High" about twenty-three seconds before the end of "Mark"; again, requires a bit of finesse with the cross-fade.

[Disassociative]

I remember being able to splice the CD single version of "10 Miles High" into the original CD ending of "The Mark Has Been Made", but it took a slight amount of cross-fading. You can get a similar effect with the Definitive Edition by starting "10 Miles High" about twenty-three seconds before the end of "Mark"; again, requires a bit of finesse with the cross-fade.

Ahh I did it the hard way. At the time I did it I was really inexperienced with audio stuff so the idea of just crossfading it carefully never crossed my mind. I just tried to make the sounds at the end and beginning of each respective track match up seamlessly. I could have gone back and done a better job of it for sure a few years later but I never got around to it. I didn't think I could do better or something.

[Your Name Here]

I am looking forward to the releases of With Teeth, Year Zero and The Slip. I'm hoping that With Teeth will include "Home" and "Non-Entity".

[implanted_microchip]

I am looking forward to the releases of With Teeth, Year Zero and The Slip. I'm hoping that With Teeth will include "Home" and "Non-Entity".

I'm counting on Home, since it was standard for the vinyl releases, but I think we'll be able to far more confidently tell if there'll be a With Teeth Deviations or not if we end up getting a song like Non-Entity included since it was never released as part of the album before.

[fillow]

I find it weird that PHM remaster sounds almost twice as loud as HM or NTAE

[Your Name Here]

I'm counting on Home, since it was standard for the vinyl releases, but I think we'll be able to far more confidently tell if there'll be a With Teeth Deviations or not if we end up getting a song like Non-Entity included since it was never released as part of the album before.

I am being hopeful because I really like both songs a lot, I kind of think "Home" will be on there, but I really love "Non-Entity" I like the piano version and I like the full band version and would love to have a definitive edition of both versions. I never even thought of a With Teeth Deviations, that blows my mind and would be freaking awesome. Does anybody know if there was material never released from The Slip sessions or different mixes of tracks like "Discipline" I fucking love that song as well.

[niggo]

I am being hopeful because I really like both songs a lot, I kind of think "Home" will be on there, but I really love "Non-Entity" I like the piano version and I like the full band version and would love to have a definitive edition of both versions.

Sounds like you're only referring to the live versions. You do know there's an , right?

[implanted_microchip]

I am being hopeful because I really like both songs a lot, I kind of think "Home" will be on there, but I really love "Non-Entity" I like the piano version and I like the full band version and would love to have a definitive edition of both versions. I never even thought of a With Teeth Deviations, that blows my mind and would be freaking awesome. Does anybody know if there was material never released from The Slip sessions or different mixes of tracks like "Discipline" I fucking love that song as well.

Considering their song a day work ethic on The Slip and the fast, messy production of it, I'd be surprised if there are any real leftovers from that time period. If there were, I think we've likely heard them elsewhere -- I could see something like Branches/Bones being influenced by snippets or scraps, but nothing substantial.

With Teeth on the other hand had a song called The Warning that is not the Year Zero song The Warning, a song called My Dead Friend, Letter to No One, etc. There were lyrics printed in the PDF for songs we didn't hear, there was the whole Bleedthrough thing and we never really did learn how much was actually scrapped or cut when the change in direction was decided, and there was such a long time period there that I'm sure Trent must have made at least a couple things we didn't hear. I've always felt that With Teeth was likely the second-most plentiful era for unreleased material, with The Fragile the obvious first. I'm not really on board with this theory that Deviations is going to be a series of all the past albums, but if another one were to ever get its treatment, I think With Teeth is as good a candidate as any.

[Your Name Here]

Sounds like you're only referring to the live versions. You do know there's an , right?

I have that version I just want a Definitive version of it.

[sheepdean]

I have that version I just want a Definitive version of it.

Surely the studio version is always the definitive version?

[Your Name Here]

Surely the studio version is always the definitive version?

Okay the Hi Res version

[sheepdean]

Okay the Hi Res version

...we have it in FLAC

[Your Name Here]

^^^^I'm so fucking happy for you.

[Khrz]

Either you really enjoy being snarky, either you maybe should be clear about what you want ? Boy your parents must have hated your guts around christmas.

[sheepdean]

^^^^I'm so fucking happy for you.

Want the FLAC? I'll DM it you dude.

I love vinyl but let's not pretend it has a better range than lossless digital. Hell we have the live version in BD-A!

[eversonpoe]

i think what he actually means is the newly remastered definitive edition, i.e. what was done for broken, TDS, and TF. but he's still being unclear and rude about it.

[Ryan]

Considering their song a day work ethic on The Slip and the fast, messy production of it, I'd be surprised if there are any real leftovers from that time period. If there were, I think we've likely heard them elsewhere -- I could see something like Branches/Bones being influenced by snippets or scraps, but nothing substantial.

With Teeth on the other hand had a song called The Warning that is not the Year Zero song The Warning, a song called My Dead Friend, Letter to No One, etc. There were lyrics printed in the PDF for songs we didn't hear, there was the whole Bleedthrough thing and we never really did learn how much was actually scrapped or cut when the change in direction was decided, and there was such a long time period there that I'm sure Trent must have made at least a couple things we didn't hear. I've always felt that With Teeth was likely the second-most plentiful era for unreleased material, with The Fragile the obvious first. I'm not really on board with this theory that Deviations is going to be a series of all the past albums, but if another one were to ever get its treatment, I think With Teeth is as good a candidate as any.

Yes, definitely. I'd actually like to see Halo 19 released as two seperate packages: one as W_T with all that art and stylisation, and one as Bleedthrough with only the prototype artwork Rob was tinkering with for that used (and the unused tracks, obviously).

[NotoriousTIMP]

I am looking forward to the releases of With Teeth, Year Zero and The Slip. I'm hoping that With Teeth will include "Home" and "Non-Entity".

Screw those tracks, I want "Not So Pretty Now" to be included!

[wizfan]

Yes, definitely. I'd actually like to see Halo 19 released as two seperate packages: one as W_T with all that art and stylisation, and one as Bleedthrough with only the prototype artwork Rob was tinkering with for that used (and the unused tracks, obviously).

The return of the skidmarks.

[Ryan]

The return of the skidmarks.

I totally forgot about the skidmarks art!

[Pbgut]

No butthurt taken @wizfan ; this all comes down to personal preference anyway! For me, the loud parts on a couple of things are "too loud," which in my world isn't a dynamic range number but just the fact that doesn't sound as good (to me). By raising the volume of these songs to the level that they have been, the louder parts must necessarily be brought down by some means. In this particular version of 10 Miles High, this results in the cock-rock-y kinda drums that are very powerful and come in around 2:20ish getting brought down by ... whatever combo they're using of limiter, maximizer, compressor, who knows. So it ends up being this weird mixture of being louder but weaker, especially during the contrasts between the louder and quieter parts when compared to the original, which sounds kind of like what I remember FM radio sounding like as a kid. I think radio would use a limiter on top of all the audio that had already been limited. The part that's affected by the DC offset isn't a problem on the original because that part is supposed to sound weird as hell anyway.

These don't sound too bad though. I thought PHM had some actual distortion/overdrive on some parts (the end synth bass of Ringfinger, for one thing ...)... these don't have those problems to my ears. I heard the Broken one though and I wasn't a fan...seems like a lot of the higher frequencies were toned down. Gimme dat early 90s digital recording sound.

I'm still gonna eat up that vinyl when it comes. And if it sounds good I'm gonna buy another copy. (Why ... did I sell my original though. Why.)

I think we can all agree though that it makes absolutely no sense that these two songs weren't on the final CD. I mean, it's already almost 2 hours long. What's another 10 minutes.

Also edit: I love those extended versions too. I hadn't heard them in years.

[Arcspiral]

I had a discouraging thought this morning. The Deviations preorder is still up and because it's a one time pressing, presumably they will take down the purchase page before the album goes to manufacturing, which routinely runs around six months. If that is indeed the case, and if you ordered multiple items that are all set to ship together (pretty much all of us) then could be looking at not seeing any of these reissues on our turntables til August. Maybe later. I really hope I'm wrong, but I think "Spring 2017" is a pipe dream at this point.

[Arcspiral]

Bull Moose has both Broken and TDS vinyl in their systems with a 4/21 street date. Who knows what that means for NTAE and Deviations vinyl (not to mention Before the Flood, which I pre-ordered in October!), but at least there is a date for some of it...http://www.bullmoose.com/p/24684702/...ve-edition-2lp

[Conan The Barbarian]

So,first day of Spring is tomorrow, let the count down and impatience begin!

[mfte]

So,first day of Spring is tomorrow, let the count down and impatience begin!

I forgot that I even ordered this. Hopefully we're not waiting until August.

[witte]

By the way. There'll be a new vinyl release of Lost Highway around may. For years rare as hell and now, we get some overkill...