Not The Actual Events

[paul_guyet]

OK guys, here's another theory for ya. Based on the scans I've seen, the physical components' halo designations are all pretty blurry - especially toward the end. Now, it's clear enough that NTAE at least begins with Halo Twenty Nine, but I don't see any definitive evidence that there's nothing after the Nine. Now, we all know that the cover artwork we've seen so far is a rehash of Still, which was Halo 17 CD2. Could NTAE be an equivalent bonus disc to Halo 29, which itself will be the multi-disc live compilation that was previously being worked on to document the '13-'14 tour cycle? That's the only thing that I can think now that would make sense of using the Still artwork again. And that would cover one of the two major 2017 NIN releases previously teased. Thoughts?

I had the exact same thought. Otherwise, why use such specific artwork? I'm wondering if Still is to The Fragile as NTAE will be to whatever this sick bastard does next. Maybe it'll have softer, more acoustic versions of the five NTAE tracks?

[ninjaw]

I had the exact same thought. Otherwise, why use such specific artwork? I'm wondering if Still is to The Fragile as NTAE will be to whatever this sick bastard does next. Maybe it'll have softer, more acoustic versions of the five NTAE tracks?

What? no.. Trent didn't missed halo29..... also I am still waiting for any picture of the "nine" word that nobody saw. The only thing that make sense ? Still was limited and is the rarest halo, I spent years listening to ppl crying about not picking the deluxe edition with it. That's one thing... can you imagine the broken artwork re-used ? just no. Also a complement to a classic bluray ? I don't see the point.

[Alex of scotland]

Er, no. Based on what Trent said in interviews, it was all new music. The reason it sounds the way it does is because of the equipment that Trent and Atticus used to make it.

Honestly, if I were Trent and Atticus, I'd be kind of offended by the idea that the EP is only good because it's made out of recycled bits from old albums. You (the collective you) are basically saying "You don't have enough talent now to make an album that sounds like that."

The (Individual me) is totally not saying that.

In fact the opposite. What I am saying is Trent has such a massive an varied back catalog of sounds that he can create completely new tracks simply by manipulating them. Not only that he could potentially release those tracks and even the most hardcore of fans would have difficulty knowing.

And from what I understand, based on his past sense of humour, that would totally give Trent , "The Chuckles".

[pinata89]

You mean he sounds like he has on every album since With Teeth? If so, I agree.

I feel like With Teeth is the last album that Trent's voice sounded good...it actually still had some character and saturation, in my opinion. Any material past that sounds "comfortable."

[paul_guyet]

What? no.. Trent didn't missed halo29..... also I am still waiting for any picture of the "nine" word that nobody saw. The only thing that make sense ? Still was limited and is the rarest halo, I spent years listening to ppl crying about not picking the deluxe edition with it. That's one thing... can you imagine the broken artwork re-used ? just no. Also a complement to a classic bluray ? I don't see the point.

I was just saying that I think there'll be a connection between the songs and their versions on NTAE and whatever comes next, nothing conspiratorial. And, just so I get it, you think the reason Reznor used Still's art for NTAE is because they're both limited/rare, no other connections or implication on his part?

[astfgyl]

Honestly, if I were Trent and Atticus, I'd be kind of offended by the idea that the EP is only good because it's made out of recycled bits from old albums. You (the collective you) are basically saying "You don't have enough talent now to make an album that sounds like that."

The collective or individual me didn't say that at all. I don't think that they are not capable of making a new album of good stuff using all new material. My thinking is that, judging from all the hints in the music and artwork, there is a certain recycled aspect to the ep. Maybe not completely recycled, but certainly some elements. Has anybody heard from Dave Grohl on recording for this? Or Dave Navarro for that matter?

Also the title "Not the Actual Events", while possibly being some reference to the current craze for fake news surrounding the recent US election, might also refer to the fact that this ep is not the actual events, that it is a sort of curveball thrown to keep everybody guessing until he reveals what was in fact the actual events. He said new NIN in 2016, and perhaps he realised that he wasn't going to make that deadline as he does have quite a bit to be doing, and set about this confusing creation which at 5 songs and having a certain recycled element to it, makes good on his promise and keeps everyody guessing.

I feel like there is going to be a reveal or punchline to this whole release. Probably not an ARG or any of that, but there is something in there staring us all in the face. Hints of what is to come next. It is in the audio or artwork somewhere. Like there mightn't have been any actual events, no recording session etc, but it gives the impression that something happened that never did. Which ties in with the whole fake news phenomenon/concept as well. Like it wasn't recycled through laziness or time constraints, just that the concept proves itself by convincing us all that there was an actual ep recorded, when none of it is actually new, just previous events represented in a new way.

I'm also not complaining about the ep. I don't care if it was recycled or not, I love it and listen to it at least once a day, if not more. The possibly of there being something hidden in there is enough for me to listen over and over to every detail. In fact it has reinvigorated my interest in NIN, and if it does nothing else, or isn't part of some grand plan, or was or wasn't a new creation, it doesn't matter. He has really got me thinking hard about it though. The chap is a genius.

And somebody asked where I hear the closer/tds motif in The Idea of You. It's at the end, right before he says "It gets so lonely in here". I'm sure it's in a different key but it's there to hear, all not hidden or anything.

[Kyle]

I think all of you are reading way too much into the album title.

Unless I missed the limited edition version of With Teeth that included replicas of Trent's baby teeth and the limited edition version of The Slip that came packaged with a dress.

[buckaroo]

I feel like With Teeth is the last album that Trent's voice sounded good...it actually still had some character and saturation, in my opinion. Any material past that sounds "comfortable."

I think his voice still sounds great when he sings. The problem is that there is so much spoken and whispered lyrics on recent material. I think a song like The Idea of You could really benefit from sung or screamed versus. A prime example is Everything. That is a song that I really enjoy and I think a lot of that has to do with the vocals and vocal harmonies. However, I have to admit that I really like the speaking/whispering approach on Burning Bright. It has such a strong chorus and I think it is sort of enhanced by it. I wish Trent would do more harmonies like in Everything and All the Love in the World, but in general just sing more.

[Kulerage]

I hear what you're hearing.

Ok now I do in fact hear it as well.

[astfgyl]

I think all of you are reading way too much into the album title.

Unless I missed the limited edition version of With Teeth that included replicas of Trent's baby teeth and the limited edition version of The Slip that came packaged with a dress.

Or the version of The Downward Spiral which sent you into a downward spiral (hmmmmm....) But fair play, that is actually funny. What is your thinking on the title? Or do you think it is basically meaningless? Do you think there is anything shady with it at all?

[paul_guyet]

Or the version of The Downward Spiral which sent you into a downward spiral (hmmmmm....) But fair play, that is actually funny. What is your thinking on the title? Or do you think it is basically meaningless? Do you think there is anything shady with it at all?

I feel like the title might just let the listener know that this is more of a character rather than Reznor himself and the stuff going on in his life.

[astfgyl]

I feel like the title might just let the listener know that this is more of a character rather than Reznor himself and the stuff going on in his life.

Yeah that is more than possible. It isn't half the fun though. Listening wise, I'm definitely getting more mileage out of it due to the possibility there might be more to all of this.

[BRoswell]

The collective or individual me didn't say that at all. I don't think that they are not capable of making a new album of good stuff using all new material. My thinking is that, judging from all the hints in the music and artwork, there is a certain recycled aspect to the ep. Maybe not completely recycled, but certainly some elements. Has anybody heard from Dave Grohl on recording for this? Or Dave Navarro for that matter?

Recycled is not the word I would use for it. It's more reflective than anything else, much like how Hesitation Marks was about reflecting on The Downward Spiral. If anything, Not The Actual Events could be a reflection of a reflection, with the album being a reflection on something that ended in Hesitation Marks. It's hard to say without any more information about it, but that's my feeling on it.

Dave Grohl hasn't commented on it as far as I know, but someone who works with Dave Navarro said that Trent brought him in for a day to work on Burning Bright (Field On Fire).

He said new NIN in 2016, and perhaps he realised that he wasn't going to make that deadline as he does have quite a bit to be doing, and set about this confusing creation which at 5 songs and having a certain recycled element to it, makes good on his promise and keeps everyody guessing.

And again, that makes it sound like he was lazy or couldn't possibly make something like this in the time he had. Trent specifically said that he and Atticus would work on the EP during week long breaks from the scores they were working on. If they had been working on it here and there for a year, it's not out of the realm of possibility that they could have five tracks done and ready to go by the end of the year.

Keep in mind that I'm not saying it's impossible for there to be any recycled material on the album. There very well could be, just like there very well could be recycled material on previous albums (*cough* Ghosts 38 *cough* Demon Seed *cough*). but until someone finds some actual evidence to support this (i.e. not "Trent sounds younger!" or "That sounds like it's from [insert album here]!"), or until Trent and Atticus come forward with information that supports that idea, it's just a fan theory at this point.

[Kyle]

Or the version of The Downward Spiral which sent you into a downward spiral (hmmmmm....) But fair play, that is actually funny. What is your thinking on the title? Or do you think it is basically meaningless? Do you think there is anything shady with it at all?

Its not meaningless. That's not the way he thinks. But it's meaning is in the context of the music not the format. There seems to be a theme of being in denial and/or oblivious to things going on around you so the title can tie in with that. Not as exciting but more realistic.

[astfgyl]

Recycled is not the word I would use for it. It's more reflective than anything else, much like how Hesitation Marks was about reflecting on The Downward Spiral. If anything, Not The Actual Events could be a reflection of a reflection, with the album being a reflection on something that ended in Hesitation Marks. It's hard to say without any more information about it, but that's my feeling on it.

Dave Grohl hasn't commented on it as far as I know, but someone who works with Dave Navarro said that Trent brought him in for a day to work on Burning Bright (Field On Fire).



And again, that makes it sound like he was lazy or couldn't possibly make something like this in the time he had. Trent specifically said that he and Atticus would work on the EP during week long breaks from the scores they were working on. If they had been working on it here and there for a year, it's not out of the realm of possibility that they could have five tracks done and ready to go by the end of the year.

Keep in mind that I'm not saying it's impossible for there to be any recycled material on the album. There very well could be, just like there very well could be recycled material on previous albums (*cough* Ghosts 38 *cough* Demon Seed *cough*). but until someone finds some actual evidence to support this (i.e. not "Trent sounds younger!" or "That sounds like it's from [insert album here]!"), or until Trent and Atticus come forward with information that supports that idea, it's just a fan theory at this point.

I did mention earlier that I didn't see or hear said interview, so all of these ideas I'm throwing out there are just unfounded theories. More ideas or feelings I get as I go along. I don't think I have the answer, or that there even is an answer at all, but there are definitely questions. Take the TDS melody at the end of The Idea of You. That sounds like it isn't the original piece sampled, but it's revisited all the same, which for me, creates a little bit of a why and I feel like everything he does has a point to it, like nothing is just randomly there. It could also be just easter eggs here and there and that's as deep as it goes, just a few throwbacks for the long time listeners maybe.

Don't want to seem like I'm trying to go against anybody elses interpretation or anything and have probably contradicted myself several times already, but I'm a stream of consciousness type of chap so I'm entirely open to being completely wrong. And I enjoy the back and forth, so not arguing, just discussing.

Also, it could be genius if there was never any explanation for any of it, if it was just a deliberately confusing concept and simply food for thought to create interest while listening. If there was never an ARG before, I probably wouldn't be thinking so hard about hidden things either.

Something of a Hesitation Marks connection just struck me too. HM was a sort of reaction to/reflection on TDS and this reuses at least 1 part of TDS art again, after having Russell Mills for HM and the physical component is a sort of a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of a.... something in that perhaps?

Had another thought there. Disregarding the something hidden idea for a moment. From reading the lyrics and his saying it was based on a dream, what if he was dreaming that he was retreading the same old ground over and over with NIN and he doesn't really know if he is feeling it anymore or not? The lyrics could be interpreted as that basic struggle, with a sort of triumphant/defiant finish (Burning Bright). You know, a sort of wrestle between going back over the old sounds and moving forward and progressing. Like when is NIN no longer NIN? How far does he have to progress before it can't/shouldn't be called that anymore? So maybe he is the protagonist in this and the story is the struggle to make that distinction? How to stay true to his original, boundary pushing vision, and not to stagnate or go backwards while keeping it under the umbrella of NIN.

It would also work as a sort of final statement from NIN, like "Here it is, and if I do any more with this, it is going to end up like the physical component, all retreading old ground and stuff" I don't honestly think that is it at all though.

Not The Actual Events:
Atticus is not the 1st ever 2nd member of NIN
John Crawford is not the new art director
None of the artwork is new
The promo photo/transparency is not new
the guest appearances are all from previous contributors so may/may not have happened
There is no actual front cover
There is no Halo number clearly visible in full anywhere
There was never any video shot for Burning Bright

Are any of these statements true? Probably not. Where am I going with this? Nowhere, I would imagine, but as a concept, to leave the listener with these questions would be a nice idea. As in, did it really happen or not we will never know (It definitely did happen, because I listened to it twice yesterday). Concept based around how everything is just a rehash these days and how would one know what to believe either way with all of the competing and contradicting sources? (Sort of ties in with all of the physical components being different in some way). The truth is there somewhere but we may never find it because we can't trust any source as reliable anymore? Anything can be twisted to mean something else given the right context. Lyrics in general seem to hint at general confusion and uncertainty. I know I'm wrong here, but just throwing it out in case anybody had a similar idea. Or if anybody would just like to give me a beatdown of sorts, all the ammo is there.

As I've already stated, the man is a genius, he has had me thinking about and trying to decipher this whole idea for 3 months, while listening to the music every day in the meantime. Brilliant.

You know if I hadn't started reading this thread at page 84 I probably wouldn't have bothered writing the essay of possibilities that I wrote. Basically everything I was trying to get at has already been covered earlier in the thread. And not just the bit I've quoted here:

Feels like I've been here before

Yes i have been here before

I guess I have a way of finding order in things. Allowing myself to feel a sense of comfort in the past. But not the actual events. The way I choose to remember them, in one way or another. And almost everything I thought mattered, what my definition of myself was, has proven false.


Please all of you go away from here

Doesn't that sound like the end, though?

Here is a question: Do you think that to leave it alone and be done with NIN for good without saying any more about it ever again would be one of the most beautiful things ever to happen in music? Not even a single hint of an explanation, nothing at all.

I think it would be a brilliant idea, as much as I hope that isn't the case. What a way to go out in style, right after proving that you could easily create something to satisfy the NIN fans, if you liked, but you feel like you're done with it, so.......... goodbye......

And I promise that is the last I will say of it unless something different actually happens.

[Detunez]

I have come to a point where i listened to NTAE on spotify far too many times... so now i took a break from NIN for a while. Its a great album, but i need my switch.

[HWB]

I have come to a point where i listened to NTAE on spotify far too many times... so now i took a break from NIN for a while. Its a great album, but i need my switch.

http://image.prntscr.com/image/a3a1b...25f34dc594.png

i need no switches

[implanted_microchip]

Has anybody talked about how the static in the video for Burning Bright looks a lot like the static in the upclose shots of the second videotape sent to Fred and Remee in Lost Highway? I'm doing a rewatch and instantly was reminded of it.

[Substance242]

That static must have been be hard for video compressor... maybe video format could have some kind of flag "play just noise with these parameters: type white, speed...", and video players understanding what to do with it, then such video would be just the length of audio track plus few bytes. Not very useful I know. ;-) On topic: NTAE is superb! :-)

edit: "must have been be hard" sounds so interesting I am not fixing it ;-)

[Jon]

That static must have been be hard for video compressor... maybe video format could have some kind of flag "play just noise with these parameters: type white, speed...", and video players understanding what to do with it, then such video would be just the length of audio track plus few bytes. Not very useful I know. ;-) On topic: NTAE is superb! :-)

edit: "must have been be hard" sounds so interesting I am not fixing it ;-)

Adobe After Effects + a particle system plug-in (like Trapcode Particular) simplify the process immensely.

[niggo]

Adobe After Effects + a particle system plug-in (like Trapcode Particular) simplify the process immensely.

I think Substance is talking about compression artifacts on YouTube rather than creating the static itself.

[astfgyl]

Woops

[patj825]

Infected Japanese... could the extra lyrics in branches/bones be words that were google translateed to Japanese and then back to English? In a sense, "infected?"

[astfgyl]

Infected Japanese... could the extra lyrics in branches/bones be words that were google translateed to Japanese and then back to English? In a sense, "infected?"

Ok so I translated into Japanese and then back into English, and then did that roughly 100 times and this is what came out of it:

There are several ways or different ways, but the method
Find almost all orders
in the case of
Yes, I was here before
Yes, I thought
in the case of
My counterfeit proof
How to find important issues and actual events
I thought of finding most of your orders
I think there is a way to be comforted with past events
But I have not done past things like the past, that is the way
I have been proved before forgiving myself to almost everything I thought it was an event
But I am comfortable as I thought
I have methods of actual events
What I thought about actual events
The actual event was here
What is proved in one way,
I almost can not find my definition
as you think
I thought I was induced by mistake
Remember the past and make it comfortable
All ways to find your order
I think that all that you proved has been proved
I think of a way to choose in some way or I think that things have almost all orders
I do not feel myself as a real event of the past
If you do not remember them, I feel like I went to you
I remember what I regarded as a hobby here before forgiving myself
I rarely choose to find an order.
In front of you
Make you feel the way you find the order
I proved my definition
Please stay away from here
Please pray to everyone
I am not in the past
As I am here
Or you are fake
I think there is something
Please go
Please
Please
Please
in the case of
Yes, I was here before
Yes, I was here

I am shit at keeping promises.

[HWB]

Is there any other track where Trent sounds so confident, intimidating and powerful as he does in Burning Bright?

In every other track where Trent tries to display some form of power over something or someone you can hear some form of insecurity or desperation within it or it backfires (Big Man With A Gun, Ruiner, Won't count The Great Destroyer as it is more part of the album's story)

Yet in Burning Bright, the guy is fucking unstoppable. He presents himself as some kind of force that not only will totally fuck you up but the entire goddamn world and he'll watch it on his chair.


The way Trent screams the chorus isn't some type of delusion as seen in Ruiner "You didn't hurt me, nothing can hurt me" it's a statement.

[Shipley]

I really like the conclusion that the description of Still on nin.com, part of which is "THE BLUEPRINTS FOR FUTURE NIN RECORDS AND FILM WORK LIE WITHIN," could signify how NTAE is related and uses the same cover art. I know someone made this connection at some point in this thread, but I think it really is an important concept.

[patj825]

Ok so I translated into Japanese and then back into English, and then did that roughly 100 times and this is what came out of it:



I am shit at keeping promises.

I think we may be on to something here. What do we think?

[astfgyl]

I think we may be on to something here. What do we think?

Well it certainly got knocked into shape a little after running it in and out of translate, there seems to be something in it, but I'm wondering how to further clarify things. I wonder if it has a similar effect using other languages? I don't see any other hints either, but it has got me more than curious

Just to see, I translated it into Japanese and then into Irish and back to English and it says:

Methods, different methods,
Search almost all orders

Yes, I was here before.
Well, I thought

Evidence of my forgery
How to find important issues and real events
I thought that I would get most notes for you
I think there is a way to be comforted by past events
But I have never done before in the past, there is a way
Before I did everything, I thought it was true and approved.
But I thought, I am comfortable
An actual event has occurred
I thought of a real event
The actual event was held here
Those who made the only way,
I almost can not find my definition
People make me feel my idea
I thought it was a wrong solution
I remember them in the past.
All direct routes
Which one are you?
I am thinking about how to choose it in a special way.
I myself do not feel actual past events
If you do not remember, I think I went to you
I was thinking as a hobby before forgiving myself here
I will not choose to search for purchase orders.
In front of
I think how to get it
I proved my definition
Please stay away from it.
Please pray for me.
I was not in the past
Because I am here,
Or if it is false
I think that is something
go
Please
Please
Please

Yes, I was here before.
Yes, I was here.

Didn't really seem to tidy it up too much more. Maybe these things can't be reverse engineered. "Search almost all orders" "Find almost all orders", could be something with the differences in physical components, but that seems a little too instructional. I might have a look at the branches/bones sheets and see if there are any differences in the printed lyrics on the known variants.

Had a few more tries, using other languages at random, but it seems to take roughly the same shape each time, with little differences here and there.

One of the tries I had, the first couple of lines reduced themselves down to

My evidence is fake
There is no real event. Do you find something important on anything?
I thought you were looking at your order for a while.

Spooky shit indeed. It's actually great fun translating it from english to japanese, and translating english into english and japanese into japanese in different random orders and seeing how it reduces itself down and becomes more concise along the way. The strange part is that the basic message is the same every time, but worded quite differently in some versions.

[Tommy_Macbeth]

Made a Burning Bright lyric vid if anyone is interested:

[niggo]

I just came across this picture and one of the top comments said: "Have they been infected with Japanese?"

Maybe that's what "infected japanese" is all about!