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Thread: Marilyn Manson

  1. #811
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    Damn some people invest a lot of emotion over a band.

  2. #812
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    "Columbine" is an odd way to misspell "Drug abuse." Maybe autocorrect?

  3. #813
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swykk View Post
    "Columbine" is an odd way to misspell "Drug abuse." Maybe autocorrect?
    Drug abuse and also ... the war on terror. Shock rock seemed kind of tame in comparison to that.

  4. #814
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    I haven't heard the full album but listened to Kill4me and good god, I feel like I'm listening to a 14 year old boy's idea of what makes something sound "edgy" and "tough." Tyler Bates' production and arrangements seem like they are trying very, very hard to give Manson something to work with, but Manson is so not doing the same in return. I wish they'd put out instrumentals at this point because I might enjoy them, but wow, there is just no way I'm going to listen to that song regularly at any point for any reason.

  5. #815
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    man i just...
    okay i never really listened to any manson since the first one, like really LISTENED to it.

    And i'm having a really hard time understanding how this record is really that much different.

  6. #816
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    Jesus Crisis is the worst song manson has ever written lyrically.

  7. #817
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    ok so except the first one was a hell of a lot cooler and i guess that shit happens

  8. #818
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    Quote Originally Posted by elevenism View Post
    man i just...
    okay i never really listened to any manson since the first one, like really LISTENED to it.

    And i'm having a really hard time understanding how this record is really that much different.
    If you can listen to Wrapped In Plastic from Portrait, Man That You Fear from Antichrist, Disassociative from Mechanical Animals, In the Shadow of the Valley of Death from Holy Wood and then Kill4me from this thing and tell me that you don't see a major difference in lyrics, vocals and general thoughtfulness then I don't know what to tell you.

  9. #819
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    Quote Originally Posted by tony.parente View Post
    Jesus Crisis is the worst song manson has ever written lyrically.
    Worse than that I wanna kill you like they do in the movies song?

  10. #820
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conan The Barbarian View Post
    Worse than that I wanna kill you like they do in the movies song?
    Worse than styrofoam raps.

  11. #821
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    Quote Originally Posted by tony.parente View Post
    Worse than styrofoam raps.
    Daaaaaammn!

  12. #822
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    Quote Originally Posted by kleiner352 View Post
    If you can listen to Wrapped In Plastic from Portrait, Man That You Fear from Antichrist, Disassociative from Mechanical Animals, In the Shadow of the Valley of Death from Holy Wood and then Kill4me from this thing and tell me that you don't see a major difference in lyrics, vocals and general thoughtfulness then I don't know what to tell you.
    well lemme see kiddo.
    i PROBABLY saw Wrapped in Plastic when i saw MM in 94 when they first came out, but i'm not sure. it was pretty much all the same.
    it was nasty industrial production with this dude screaming over it.
    i never fell in love with it.
    it was a little bit scary but now it's not.

  13. #823
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    Quote Originally Posted by elevenism View Post
    well lemme see kiddo.
    i PROBABLY saw Wrapped in Plastic when i saw MM in 94 when they first came out, but i'm not sure. it was pretty much all the same.
    it was nasty industrial production with this dude screaming over it.
    i never fell in love with it.
    it was a little bit scary but now it's not.
    Don't condescend to me.

    They moved pretty well past that sound. If they'd only ever been the horror punk-tinged Spooky Kids form of the band I doubt anyone would still be discussing them beyond an obscure time capsule oddity. Point being, listen to any of those other songs and then one of the new singles and there's a pretty discernible difference.

  14. #824
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    Quote Originally Posted by kleiner352 View Post
    Don't condescend to me.

    They moved pretty well past that sound. If they'd only ever been the horror punk-tinged Spooky Kids form of the band I doubt anyone would still be discussing them beyond an obscure time capsule oddity. Point being, listen to any of those other songs and then one of the new singles and there's a pretty discernible difference.
    oh come on
    i'm just busting your balls.

    i honestly meant that i haven't kept up.

  15. #825
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    From 1996-2001, I was a Manson fanatic. And I would still put MA and Holy Wood high on my list of all-time 50 records. But I can't recall a more spectacular fall from grace than what we've witnessed over the past decade-plus. It all started with the mickey ears and "grill piece". Then his voice deteriorated to the point of no return (an even more extreme decline than Liam or Weiland). The new interviews are unlistenable, the band has no soul, and Manson himself has nothing more to say/offer. "When I try to
    look inside you, I ended up looking through you"? Really dude? You're a grown ass man recycling ideas from your high school notebook.

    At least I'll always have 11-23-98 at Hammerstein (first time I ever dropped a gel tab). He was truly transcendent back then and to open with Reflecting God/Great Big White World/Cake and Sodomy was something I'll never forget.

  16. #826
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    I don't mind this at all. *shrug*

  17. #827
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    Finally heard one of the new singles:


    Meh. It's more of the same. Not bad, just sort of predictable, paint-by-numbers Manson. It sounds like a GAOG b-side or Best Buy exclusive bonus track.

  18. #828
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    Oh my good god everything about his vocals and lyrics on Tattooed In Reverse make me embarrassed to be hearing any of it. Just give me that Uzi album at this point, it can't be worse or more repetitive than this. I'm not going to act like The Pale Emperor was totally fresh territory or anything, but it felt focused and more open and lyrically pointed toward himself in a way that showed some self-awareness and willingness to try and move forward creatively, but this is like a nosedive back into every cliche, every cringe-inducing dated cool-at-the-time-and-now-only-in-nostalgia-style line of his but with none of the nostalgia attached.

    First time I won't bother buying an album of his whatsoever. The instrumentals are a lot like Bates' work on John Wick so if I get an itch for the sound of this, I'll just go to that. Knowing the amount of people that had to look at this guy in the studio, look over the lyrics, listen to him as he sang, choose from the best performances, mix it all together, and at no point stop and go "Hey, maybe this isn't great" is stunning. I don't know what's crazier to imagine -- that people didn't bother to say anything at all and just smiled and nodded their way through it or that people did, in fact, step in, guide him away from his worst ideas and this is somehow the best that he could do.

    People said Saturnalia is Bela Lugosi's Dead but oh my fuck it actually is just that song for entire chunks, if it was a straightforward cover and billed as such I wouldn't even mind but wow, that's ... way more than similar. It also happens to be one of the most tolerable songs, almost entirely because it's a semi-cover of a better one and Manson's vocals aren't "ultra edgy so super scary for your conservative parents" the whole time. Other than the title I honestly can't remember a single line from it and on this album, the lyrics not sticking out is actually a good thing.
    @tony.parente wasn't kidding about Jesus Crisis (somebody else can type it the right way, fuck it) -- wowza. Let's not even acknowledge that one.

    Blood Honey is one of the better things here, mostly because it isn't obsessed with trying to make some vague and vapid statement about ... well, whatever the fuck it is Manson is rambling about on the rest of the album in regards to religion. That doesn't mean it isn't terrible, but at least it's a break from the same cliches. It feels more like the Born Villain end of the spectrum, which is to say extremely boring and overall forgettable. The penchant for repeating himself that's shown in the last few albums has officially worn thin -- when all of your lyrics are this bad, to repeat them over and over again aren't helping at all.

    That repetition also doesn't help when the music isn't exactly inventive and in turn it gets very monotonous very quickly -- it's 47 minutes but still feels too long. The last track just refuses to fucking end. The dude is completely out of ideas. There's zero reason to keep the lights on for this band anymore besides the paycheck that they can milk out of it, and I'm amazed there's even much of one left to milk.

  19. #829
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    Quote Originally Posted by kleiner352 View Post
    Oh my good god everything about his vocals and lyrics on Tattooed In Reverse make me embarrassed to be hearing any of it. Just give me that Uzi album at this point, it can't be worse or more repetitive than this. I'm not going to act like The Pale Emperor was totally fresh territory or anything, but it felt focused and more open and lyrically pointed toward himself in a way that showed some self-awareness and willingness to try and move forward creatively, but this is like a nosedive back into every cliche, every cringe-inducing dated cool-at-the-time-and-now-only-in-nostalgia-style line of his but with none of the nostalgia attached.

    First time I won't bother buying an album of his whatsoever. The instrumentals are a lot like Bates' work on John Wick so if I get an itch for the sound of this, I'll just go to that. Knowing the amount of people that had to look at this guy in the studio, look over the lyrics, listen to him as he sang, choose from the best performances, mix it all together, and at no point stop and go "Hey, maybe this isn't great" is stunning. I don't know what's crazier to imagine -- that people didn't bother to say anything at all and just smiled and nodded their way through it or that people did, in fact, step in, guide him away from his worst ideas and this is somehow the best that he could do.

    People said Saturnalia is Bela Lugosi's Dead but oh my fuck it actually is just that song for entire chunks, if it was a straightforward cover and billed as such I wouldn't even mind but wow, that's ... way more than similar. It also happens to be one of the most tolerable songs, almost entirely because it's a semi-cover of a better one and Manson's vocals aren't "ultra edgy so super scary for your conservative parents" the whole time. Other than the title I honestly can't remember a single line from it and on this album, the lyrics not sticking out is actually a good thing.
    @tony.parente wasn't kidding about Jesus Crisis (somebody else can type it the right way, fuck it) -- wowza. Let's not even acknowledge that one.

    Blood Honey is one of the better things here, mostly because it isn't obsessed with trying to make some vague and vapid statement about ... well, whatever the fuck it is Manson is rambling about on the rest of the album in regards to religion. That doesn't mean it isn't terrible, but at least it's a break from the same cliches. It feels more like the Born Villain end of the spectrum, which is to say extremely boring and overall forgettable. The penchant for repeating himself that's shown in the last few albums has officially worn thin -- when all of your lyrics are this bad, to repeat them over and over again aren't helping at all.

    That repetition also doesn't help when the music isn't exactly inventive and in turn it gets very monotonous very quickly -- it's 47 minutes but still feels too long. The last track just refuses to fucking end. The dude is completely out of ideas. There's zero reason to keep the lights on for this band anymore besides the paycheck that they can milk out of it, and I'm amazed there's even much of one left to milk.
    Goddamn.
    See, i'm with @RhettButler
    It's not THAT fucking bad.
    i get the impression that you SERIOUSLY wanted it to be a whole lot better :/

    And for the record, i REALLY LIKED the "spooky kids era."
    they weren't so good live, but i REALLY loved those first couple of records. i guess i'm just getting old, @kleiner352 . i think we are just seeing things from wildly different perspectives.
    See, i stopped paying attention to MM when i heard that they had a feud going with my hero Trent Reznor. That's how old i was.
    Last edited by elevenism; 09-21-2017 at 07:40 PM.

  20. #830
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    The whole thing just sounds flat, uninspired, childish and tryhard. I'm convinced he uses a Marilyn Manson lyrics generator at this point. It's a worse album compared to The Pale Emperor in almost every way. Even his worst albums, there have been at least 3 or so songs I've felt were worth revisiting, and I've always found something interesting that made me give them more chances than they sometimes deserved -- The High End of Low may be a mess, but there's something almost fun about the total trainwreck vibe. Eat Me Drink Me may not be what anybody wants from a Marilyn Manson album, but Skold's music captured the gothic romance vibe well and the moments where the Lewis Carrol imagery flourished was different and felt genuine. Born Villain felt like a safe and bland attempt at revisiting old success but Overneath, No Reflection and the title track all had their charms along with a few others.

    This had no standouts, no moments that made me remember why I was putting up with the rest of it, no decently clever lines in the middle of the shit, no moments of his voice sounding decent again, no hooks that got buried in my brain even. It's been a few hours since I heard it and I couldn't hum almost anything from it, and it's not like it's some super experimental structure-fucking collection of factory doors creaking and trees in Iceland groaning or something.

    I didn't think The Pale Emperor was a new classic or anything, but it felt like some of the fire and magic that was around pre-Holy Wood showed some signs of life, he started working with his voice rather than against it and the lyrics were, in general, far less cringe-inducing and had surprising moments of decency. This album feels like that album didn't happen at all. I didn't expect this to be mindblowing, but I hoped it would be better than absolute shit. If this is the Manson that wants to collaborate with Trent again then I hope Trent stays far the fuck away.

  21. #831
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    Quote Originally Posted by elevenism View Post
    Goddamn.
    See, i'm with @RhettButler
    It's not THAT fucking bad.
    i get the impression that you SERIOUSLY wanted it to be a whole lot better :/

    And for the record, i REALLY LIKED the "spooky kids era."
    they weren't so good live, but i REALLY loved those first couple of records. i guess i'm just getting old, @kleiner352 . i think we are just seeing things from wildly different perspectives.
    See, i stopped paying attention to MM when i heard that they had a feud going with my hero Trent Reznor. That's how old i was.
    I agree it's not that bad.

  22. #832
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conan The Barbarian View Post
    Worse than that I wanna kill you like they do in the movies song?
    I like that one; it's straight murder music. I also like that Unkillable Monster one that people like to routinely defecate on. That whole album is a career highlight, in my opinion. One entertaining song after another, with all the classic Manson tropes on full display.

    In fact, let's stop mincing words and just say it: THEOL is maybe only a step behind Portrait when it comes to being my favorite Manson album. Anyone who doesn't get it is just stupid to me. If that album had been released after Antichrist Superoverrated, every Manson fan whether diehard or tepid would be praising it on high to this day. It would be regarded as some avant garde masterpiece peppered with digestible singles as classic and accessible as Beautiful People and Tourniquet, but unlike anything else in the overcrowded late-90s rock scene.

    Instead, it's the missing album between Antichrist and Mechanical Animals that everyone pretends to hate. Trent Reznor included.

    That's why this guy is perennially doomed to be the 90s version of Alice Cooper. Hot for a moment when soccer moms and pre-Catholic scandal bible thumpers couldn't get their heads around this shrieking ghoulie man in smeared lipstick and torn nylons, brainwashing their rebellious teenagers. Those were great times to be alive. Now, nobody gives af and it's all "I hope this one sounds like Antichrist or get tf out.." for anyone still around who bothers to listen..
    Last edited by Prettybrokenspiral; 09-22-2017 at 01:10 AM.

  23. #833
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    lmao THEOL is an avant-garde masterpiece? this has to be satire right? the "anyone who doesn't get it is just stupid" part was pretty funny too.

  24. #834
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    Quote Originally Posted by Airbornefeline View Post
    the "anyone who doesn't get it is just stupid" part was pretty funny too.
    Yeah that was a little far, but THEoL is a decent record, considering the abortions that came after it - it's solid. I don't skip any song other than I have to look up. It's fun.

  25. #835
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    THEOL is to me frustrating because it almost gets there. Almost. It's got its fair share of good tunes but it's also the point where I think a lot of people began to really notice something was wrong.

    To me it's a staggering mix of songs I think are really great and deserve more recognition and so much utter been-there-done-that and crap.

    Great:
    Devour
    Leave A Scar
    Four Rusted Horses
    Running To The Edge Of The World
    WOW (shut up, it's funny)
    I Have To Look Up Just To See Hell
    Into The Fire
    15

    Crap:
    Pretty As A Swastika (LOOK AT HOW SHOCKING I AM)
    Armagoddamnfuckoffwiththis
    We're From America
    Wight Spider
    Unkillable Monster

    The rest somewhere in between. To this day I can't believe MM acquiesced to allowing a great big censor beep over the "kill the president" line in Blank And White, and IWKYLTDITM would be better if it was like three minutes shorter.

  26. #836
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    Once Manson stopped being the scariest man in music post 9/11, suddenly the music had to stand on its own without all the image..and thats why he faltered because suddenly the songs werent as strong (specifically GAOG where he seemed desperate for a hit single and EMDM which I still dont know what the fuck that record was)...Its intersting that the people/critics who praise Pale Emperor shit all over THEOL...yet if you listen to both records back to back, you will notice a lot of the ideas he did on PE he actually started with THEOL.....and yes Leave A Scar is one of his top 5 songs ever......
    Last edited by Helpmeiaminhell; 09-22-2017 at 04:01 PM.

  27. #837
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prettybrokenspiral View Post
    THEOL is maybe only a step behind Portrait when it comes to being my favorite Manson album. Anyone who doesn't get it is just stupid to me. If that album had been released after Antichrist Superoverrated, every Manson fan whether diehard or tepid would be praising it on high to this day. It would be regarded as some avant garde masterpiece
    Wow, no wonder this place has such a shitty reputation. Could you be any more pretencious?

  28. #838
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    I'd agree that THEOL is at least a decent album but it's soooo far from being avant-garde OR a masterpiece.

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    Quote Originally Posted by clarktrent View Post
    Wow, no wonder this place has such a shitty reputation. Could you be any more pretencious?
    1. Well, it's true. Imagine being in your mid-40's and having to always be "on". It's like "Well, time to write another batch of shitty rhymes and stale play on words...let's beginOMG I ALREADY HAVE IT. JESUS CRISIS...BUT DOLLAR SIGNS INSTEAD OF THE LETTER 'S'.....*scribbles in notebook*
    2. *pretentious
    3. This place has a shitty reputation? lol sweet.

  30. #840
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    Quote Originally Posted by clarktrent View Post
    Wow, no wonder this place has such a shitty reputation. Could you be any more pretencious?
    Here, hold my Manson-brand absinthe..

    Quote Originally Posted by Airbornefeline View Post
    I'd agree that THEOL is at least a decent album but it's soooo far from being avant-garde OR a masterpiece.
    Re-read what I originally posted. I never said it was an avant garde masterpiece.

    I said that had it come out after ACSS, it would have been held in much higher regard in the same way that Mechanical Animals was at the time. Anything he released after ACSS would have been praised because he was a hot ticket in that timeframe. People would have justified THEOL any way they saw fit, warts and all. It would have been viewed as a daring piece of work, as opposed to being the desperate mess it's regarded as today.

    People outside the NIN fan community say the same thing about Trent's post-Fragile output. The same with bands like Pearl Jam, Smashing Pumpkins, etc.

    Let's not kid ourselves here. If Mechanical Animals had come out after EMDM instead of ACSS, 90% of the people in this thread shitting all over THEOL would be teeing off on MA, too. As great as MA is, he got away with murder trying that shit off the back of his most revered album at the peak of his fame. Smart move on his part.

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