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Thread: Marilyn Manson

  1. #1561
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    Marilyn Manson

    Quote Originally Posted by theimage13 View Post
    Not sure what was ridiculous about my example.

    But you say that you would be a liar if you didn't think about it sometimes if the subject isn't brought up. Okay. Here's the thing: the subject has been brought up. It's not in the shadows anymore. People aren't ignoring it and pretending it's not happening. It is happening. Often. So now that you know that, do you really still just not care? Because if you don't, then no, you don't have any empathy or sympathy. And if you do care, and you do have sympathy and empathy, then why are you defending the actions of abusers by giving them your money and supporting their products?

    And I'm sorry, the trend now is that everybody cares? Compassion isn't a trend. Having morals isn't a trend. Telling people that they're bad for beating the shit out of other people isn't a motherfucking trend. For thousands and thousands of years, we've punished crimes. We as human beings have always had a sense of right and wrong that generally drew the line at "don't hurt each other". The only thing that's new is that we're finally starting to be more open about forms of abuse that used to be swept under the rug.

    You do not condone violence or abuse of any kind? You literally said you couldn't care less if someone beats women. Your words, not mine.

    Please. I'm not calling you names. I'm not calling myself "better than you". I'm not even being sarcastic about anything. I'm trying to reach you, as one human being to another, and get you to understand that constantly supporting people who are known abusers and not caring at all about their criminality only serves to condone, accept, and normalize their behavior.

    And now that this is starting to get wayyyyyyyyy off topic, I'm done. You can quote this all you want and feel like you've had the last word. You can have it. If I can't get you to understand that supporting known abusers is tantamount to condoning their actions, then frankly I just don't know how to reach you, and can only hope that some day you have an epiphany.
    What is ridiculous is bringing up examples of family members being abused and asking the stupid question ďwould you care then?Ē Of course I would.

    The thing is, I know the subject is being brought up all the time, but I donít listen to radio, I donít watch tv, I donít read the news (on paper or online), and I donít use social media other than posting here and in 2 other music forums from time to time. So Iím not exposed to it as much as other people are. Iím not being bombarded 24/7 with headlines and social media comments.

    My take? If you are a victim, go to the police. Itís none of my business what happens in other peopleís private lives. I donít pretend that Deppís wife being beat up shocks me. Iím sorry for her, but thatís all. Iím not losing any sleep over it, Iím not going to comment it with my family, friends, coworkers or acquaintances. Iím not close to those 2 people, I donít know the details, and I have no interest in getting into that whole ďhe said she saidĒ thing. To me itís a legal issue, and should be addressed in court by those involved. Beyond that itís just tabloid material and gossip to me. I do not get involved in whatís going on in other peopleís relationships, I consider that to be private issues that have nothing to do with me. I donít know what he did, I donít know if she did something that pushed him to do that, I donít even know if this is true, I donít know if thereís a case in court in process... you get where Iím going.

    I donít see things as right/wrong as black/white. Thereís a lot of grey in between. Is beating someone up wrong? Well, it depends on the context. And I donít know the context of Deppís case, and I have no interest in finding out cause to me it is irrelevant.

    The social media mob considers that the right thing to do is to judge anyone being accused and demand that they have everything taken away from them. Itís all or nothing. Having an opinion and posting it on social media with hashtags is seen as caring and being involved and being humanitarian and compasionate. I donít spend time in that environment, I donít take part in that stuff, because I donít like groups and how self-righteous they become. I prefer to use my ďcaringĒ where I think it actually matters and where I think I have more chances of making a positive impact, and that place is not the internet.

    And please donít feel like you need to reach me and enlighten me cause I need some kind of guidance or epiphany. Itís not your role to save the world. And yeah, this is way off topic, thatís why I suggested using the other thread in the other subforum in the first place.
    Last edited by tremolo; 01-24-2018 at 06:27 AM.

  2. #1562
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    I’m certain someone said this already but the “Cry Little Sister” cover is better than anything on HUD. Hopefully there will be an official release of it.

  3. #1563
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    Saw MM last night in Madison and unfortunately it was a pretty underwhelming show. I'll be the first to admit that Madison crowds can be on the tame side, and Manson spent basically the whole night drawing attention to it. He actually stopped more than one song halfway through to admonish he crowd that they weren't making enough noise, or not singing along to the lyrics well enough. Generally doing the whole sad "come on, you can be louder than that" thing to an audience which just wasn't having it. I do totally get that the whole audience-band synergy thing is super important, and it's tough to put on a great show if the audience isn't responding the way you'd hoped, but IMO he handled it in just about the worst possible way. We got a really weird, shitty version of Irresponsible Hate Anthem at the end of the main set which was mostly this sort of industrial jam band thing for like three minutes and then the last chorus? Or something? I assume that's not usual. He pretty clearly cancelled his final encore, which I assume was gonna be Beautiful People or something - house lights didn't come on for a good 2-3 minutes or so after they left the stage. I'm only a casual Manson fan at best so I honestly didn't care, but I feel bad for the hardcore fans in the crowd who were denied a better show because of his hissy fit.

    So yeah - not a great show by any means. Setlist skewed pretty heavily post-ACSS, which was fine by me even though I'm not super familiar with a lot of it. I'm always the guy at a NIN show who wants TR to play nothing but the new stuff, so I'm generally fine with whatever setlist a musician wants to play.

    He rolled out onstage initially in a motorized wheelchair thing which had been converted into a kind of mobile papal throne, and my friend's first very confused thought was, "is he dressed like an evil banana?"
    Last edited by xolotl; 02-03-2018 at 11:30 AM. Reason: throne, not altar.

  4. #1564
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    Ill be seeing Marlin again for like the 7th or 8th time in July at Rock USA, he plays right before Rob Zombie so we will see how this goes. Regardless im looking forward to finally record Mr Mansboob since the last time I saw him in 2013 my batteries died on me during the opening band.

    Anyways im going to all three days so if anyone wants to meet und get crunk let me know.


    oh, and the 1995.09.30 Pao Alto tape is straight up VICIOUS, listen to it if you haven't.

    and hell if you have listen to it again!

  5. #1565
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    Is this song...

    Supposed to be a parody/mocking of this song?

  6. #1566
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    ^^ Yeah, he's got soundcheck in Toronto in about two hours. So....no.

  7. #1567
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    Saw MM last night in Boston. It was a good show, sixth or seventh time I've seen him. Compared to the other shows, this seemed more meat-and-potatoes, more sparse, stripped down with few props, no confetti, fewer constumes, etc. He sounded good, did his normal sober-Morrison shtick, although he did sound a little high. Thanked us for coming back, as the other show in October was postponed due do his injury, "I was the victim of gun violence," haha.

    He did seem a little more subdued than usual, but he is pushing 50.
    Last edited by RhettButler; 02-13-2018 at 09:06 AM.

  8. #1568
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    Quote Originally Posted by RhettButler View Post
    "I was the victim of gun violence," haha.
    Usually his sense of humor falls flat for me but that's pretty funny.

  9. #1569
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    Saw the band last night in Boston. They sounded pretty good and Manson actually, dare I say it, looked almost healthy. Like he has lost weight and looked younger than he has in the past several years. He was smoking a joint on stage and I think he might have been drinking prior to the show as there were moments where it was hard to understand what he was saying (also could very much be that I was standing near a bar under the speakers). They don't have a keyboardist on this tour, just 4 piece band, and they didn't use much music from a tape for the usual things like the "Ahhhh" in the Beautiful People and few vocal effects in Mobscene where actually done by Manson himself. So, that was different than the usual Manson shows of the past. But yeah, I had a good time.

  10. #1570
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    Quote Originally Posted by renton44 View Post
    Saw the band last night in Boston. They sounded pretty good and Manson actually, dare I say it, looked almost healthy. Like he has lost weight and looked younger than he has in the past several years. He was smoking a joint on stage and I think he might have been drinking prior to the show as there were moments where it was hard to understand what he was saying (also could very much be that I was standing near a bar under the speakers). They don't have a keyboardist on this tour, just 4 piece band, and they didn't use much music from a tape for the usual things like the "Ahhhh" in the Beautiful People and few vocal effects in Mobscene where actually done by Manson himself. So, that was different than the usual Manson shows of the past. But yeah, I had a good time.
    Were they giving out passes? I thought I heard someone say they were. Also, the opening DJ was pretty good.

  11. #1571
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    Quote Originally Posted by RhettButler View Post
    Were they giving out passes? I thought I heard someone say they were. Also, the opening DJ was pretty good.
    I missed most of the opening DJ (was at Tasty Burger... and that is ONE TASTY BURGER!). I am not sure about passes, but it was sold out show (as I am sure you know as you spent time in the same long ass line as I did).

  12. #1572
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    Quote Originally Posted by renton44 View Post
    I missed most of the opening DJ (was at Tasty Burger... and that is ONE TASTY BURGER!). I am not sure about passes, but it was sold out show (as I am sure you know as you spent time in the same long ass line as I did).
    Interesting mix of goths and bros.

  13. #1573
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    A little off topic but not really, having heard 'The Nobodies' live on Monday night and then a school shooting two days later is super sobering. Its amazing how good that song really is and how things haven't changed in the 15 years or so since it was released.

  14. #1574
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    Oh jeez... Apparently, he was drunk or high as hell during the meet and greet too.

    https://www.newsday.com/entertainmen...unt-1.16800038

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    Quote Originally Posted by renton44 View Post
    Oh jeez... Apparently, he was drunk or high as hell during the meet and greet too.

    https://www.newsday.com/entertainmen...unt-1.16800038
    glad a crowd finally got fed up enough to turn on him.

  16. #1576
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    That was a hard watch, I never seen videos of him getting booed, well from his prime. I wish there was someone who can get through to him and get his fucking ass into rehab.

  17. #1577
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    And that's exactly why I don't feel at all butthurt about missing the Grand Rapids show last week.

  18. #1578
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    My friend was at that show. She wanted me to go with her. I told her if I wanted to watch some fat drunk fall off the stage and sing out of tune, I would go to a karaoke bar. Seeing what a shitshow this was, I wish I had went

  19. #1579
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    Quote Originally Posted by renton44 View Post
    Oh jeez... Apparently, he was drunk or high as hell during the meet and greet too.

    https://www.newsday.com/entertainmen...unt-1.16800038
    Damn that's pathetic. I was considering getting tix too since the show is around the block from me. Glad I didn't.

    Last edited by imail724; 02-16-2018 at 12:13 PM.

  20. #1580
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    Quote Originally Posted by imail724 View Post
    Damn that's pathetic. I was considering getting tix too since the show is around the block from me. Glad I didn't.

    LOL, I did like the shout out to Boston. "We just came from Boston... We just came from Boston...." He did say "Boston, you are the best audience of the tour..." on Monday Night. I guess he meant it this time around, lol. You New Yorkers need to try harder (just messing around).
    Last edited by renton44; 02-16-2018 at 12:28 PM.

  21. #1581
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    Audiences have changed. Itís getting harder for performers to get and capture peopleís attention for more than 10 minutes, let alone a full show. Way too many people at concerts are not even there, theyíre making shitty quality videos and posting them on social media while there is a show unfolding right in front of them.

    That must be very frustrating for performers who didnít have to deal with that nonsense before. Add alcohol and/or drugs to the mix and we get the performer trying to get even with the crowd.

    Itís a 2-way street. I wish Manson got his shit together and I wish fans were able to be in the present instead of being dettached from their surroundings cause they canít put their fucking phones away.

  22. #1582
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    Man, I wish I went to Huntington and saw this disaster. I live on Long Island, Huntington is not even 20 minutes from me.

  23. #1583
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    Quote Originally Posted by tremolo View Post
    Audiences have changed. It’s getting harder for performers to get and capture people’s attention for more than 10 minutes, let alone a full show. Way too many people at concerts are not even there, they’re making shitty quality videos and posting them on social media while there is a show unfolding right in front of them.
    Honestly, I think it depends on the band and the audience they attract. I've been to plenty of shows where the entire crowd were 100% fully into it and were there for the band and the music and not just there making videos. Those shows are amazing, but again it depends on the band/artist. Some bands just seem to attract shitty elements in their crowds.

    Watching videos from Manson's show at The Paramount, it seemed like the crowd were into it and responding. I think Manson was just being his belligerent, drunk usual self that's been known for the last few years now. He played Long Island before when he came to Jones Beach for the Smashing Pumpkins co-tour. Guessing Manson was drunker this time.

    Honestly, I'm getting the feeling that Marilyn Manson is bored being Marilyn Manson. I think he may be just sick of having to do the usual shtick over and over every night. It's sad because I don't think he's allowed to be anything else with his fans. They expect him to behave a certain way and play certain songs. It must suck to not be able to branch out and do something different. He has to keep playing this character and playing up to people's expectations. It really does seem like he his bored.
    Last edited by neorev; 02-16-2018 at 01:54 PM.

  24. #1584
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    This guy is clearly mixing meds and alcohol and itís not a good combo. Thereís zero defending this kind of a trainwreck. Everybody who thought the show a couple years ago where he literally fell offstage was bad should see fhis ridiculous shit. People who went to the meet and greet say he was trashed then and the guy passed out onstage after half-performing for six songs. At least Tyler Bates got out while the going was good.

    Itís such a shame because I can think of few artists of his generation whoís been given more endless chances from his fans than Manson has. When do people just stop coming out to these shows? At one point do people get fed up with it? He gets his shit together for a few months, puts on some alright hour-long sets, then the backslide begins again and we get a show like this almost every single tour for an entire decade. This is some High End of Low tour shit.

    Itís baffling how heís always able to do this ó he put out an album that a lot of fans were into even if I hated it, had people like Trent Reznor backing him up a bit again, hinted at doing a song together live and then he shows up to Marc Maronís garage with a water bottle full of vodka and went and wrecked his leg on the stupidest prop imaginable and now weíre getting this. The idea of a headliner doing 14 songs at most a night when they have 20+ years of music to pick from is already absurd but to not know if youíre even going to get that when you drop ~100 bucks on tickets is insane. Part of me worries this guy isnít going to be around much longer but another part of me is just so used to this ridiculous cycle tour after tour after tour that I donít even feel surprised ó this is just what he does. Aside from the Smashing Pumpkins tour it doesnít seem like heís managed a single cycle without having something like this happen. Iím amazed he can even get booked as a headliner at this point or get any self-respecting musician to be in his touring band.

    If the guy really wanted help, heíd have it, because itís pretty obvious itís been offered to him plenty. He gets chance after chance after chance, does things with just enough promise to rope people back in and then in one way or another torpedoes it again and again. Itís at a point where if I did get tickets to a show Iíd make sure I had a backup plan in case something like this happened.

  25. #1585
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    Yeah, I'm watching the videos and this is fucking ridiculous. This is not at all a shitty crowd thing. This was 100% all on Marilyn Manson. The place looked packed too. People were into it and cheering and responding. All he did was berate the crowd and slur his way through songs. Fucking sad.

    I'm guessing he did these long winded monologues and that atrocious freestyle jam because he knew he needed to perform a certain length of time to get paid. He phoned it in.

    I don't know who I feel more sorry for... the crowd for getting a half assed show or his band who has to put up with this shit and just play along.
    Last edited by neorev; 02-16-2018 at 02:10 PM.

  26. #1586
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    There's nothing particularly cool about a guy on the cusp of 50 drunkenly berating his audience and purposely bombing. He could have maybe gotten away with it twenty years ago and dismissed it as part of the show, but that doesn't fly now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by neorev View Post
    Honestly, I think it depends on the band and the audience they attract. I've been to plenty of shows where the entire crowd were 100% fully into it and were there for the band and the music and not just there making videos. Those shows are amazing, but again it depends on the band/artist. Some bands just seem to attract shitty elements in their crowds.

    Watching videos from Manson's show at The Paramount, it seemed like the crowd were into it and responding. I think Manson was just being his belligerent, drunk usual self that's been known for the last few years now. He played Long Island before when he came to Jones Beach for the Smashing Pumpkins co-tour. Guessing Manson was drunker this time.

    Honestly, I'm getting the feeling that Marilyn Manson is bored being Marilyn Manson. I think he may be just sick of having to do the usual shtick over and over every night. It's sad because I don't think he's allowed to be anything else with his fans. They expect him to behave a certain way and play certain songs. It must suck to not be able to branch out and do something different. He has to keep playing this character and playing up to people's expectations. It really does seem like he his bored.
    He doesnít have to. He should kill Marilyn Manson, kinda like Ziggy.

  28. #1588
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    He's been bored of the character since the early 2000s. He might have had some luck giving himself another name and different appearance starting with GOAG and really gone in full-tilt with the whole grotesque-burlesque Berilin Mickey Mouse shtick, but it only ever came out half-baked and unfocused. After that, he arguably really did try to incorporate himself into the character starting with EMDM.

    He never could let go of the idea of 'MM', really. It's unfortunate; I remember people used to say he was going to be the next Bowie because homages aside, he did seem to want to reinvent himself constantly. A shame that never went beyond the surface levels of Omega and the Mechanical Animals.

  29. #1589
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    Weird. He just gave a solid show in Boston...

  30. #1590
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    Quote Originally Posted by tremolo View Post
    He doesnít have to. He should kill Marilyn Manson, kinda like Ziggy.
    The whole prop falling on his head may have been a start...Although he may be taking it too literally

    Pogo having a big ol laugh on fb about it

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