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Thread: Marilyn Manson

  1. #1741
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    While nothing seems to have happened the shows at Rock am Ring and Rock im Park in Germany were still frustrating to watch. The band has no chemistry at this point it seems which is not baffling at all and Manson while indeed able to reach some difficult notes here and there is just a dissapointment to watch if you haven't seen him before.

    Drowned in fog with ridicoulous speeches with the same old setlist, it's beyond my understanding how he can still tour that much. Is it really the quite good media echo to his records and some people willing to still buy tickets that keeps this train rolling?!

  2. #1742
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    Quote Originally Posted by dlb View Post
    While nothing seems to have happened the shows at Rock am Ring and Rock im Park in Germany were still frustrating to watch. The band has no chemistry at this point it seems which is not baffling at all and Manson while indeed able to reach some difficult notes here and there is just a dissapointment to watch if you haven't seen him before.

    Drowned in fog with ridicoulous speeches with the same old setlist, it's beyond my understanding how he can still tour that much. Is it really the quite good media echo to his records and some people willing to still buy tickets that keeps this train rolling?!
    I think he's hit the magic spot of nostalgia meets fans who finally don't have parents to tell them no. Seriously.

    Part of the crowd are the 20-somethings of the Portrait era who are now 40-50 somethings who have money and want to relieve the glory days. Part of the crowd are the people who were young enough in the MA / Holy Wood era that this is their chance to go see their former idol without ol' mom & dad telling them they can't go, and having the time / money to do it.

    I'm not saying those are the only two crowds - but I think it's a contributing factor. When he played near us earlier this year, it sold out in a matter of days. I had relatives pushing 60 who were disappointed that they couldn't get tickets. The nostalgia thing in particular is real.

  3. #1743
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    I’m in my (very) early 20s from a shitty small town and can say that in my experience Manson had a strong image/relevancy even a few years ago among teens. He’s one of the last rockstars that everybody knew the face and name of and still makes parents mad when they find out their kids are listening to him (and alternatively his parenting-age fans are now probably encouraging). I was in high school when Born Villain came out and and knew a lot of kids who talked about it, the guy’s image is practically a meme in the original sense of the word. Even people who can’t hum a single song know what he looks like (well, maybe not recently lol).

    As much as getting stuck in his early/mid-2000s image has damaged his creativity and ability to feel fresh again, it also has meant that he’s remained a recognizable figure to people and the themes his best work dealt with are pretty much timeless if you’re a sad kid in a small town with lots of religious hypocrisy around. People who don’t get deep into music often just remember the hits of people and Manson’s have had a lot of staying power over the years, he’s made music for teenagers most of his career and as much as people who know his work more realize he’s a shadow of what he once was, on a surface level from a distance he still looks like he represents the same things he used to (even if in reality he doesn’t).

    Marilyn Manson is a larger than life character thing that he got stuck inside of but the flipside of that is he’s one of the very last larger than life rockstar celebrities that managed to have their big relevancy just before the internet and social media swept that whole concept away. There’s a feeling of being a cultural constant around him that is both comforting/nostalgic for older fans and appealing and unreal to younger ones, because there’s basically no one else your parents remember hating and your older siblings loved and people you know still wear t-shirts of who has kept the same aesthetic and sound for so long. People who listen to full albums and talk about them at length and pay attention to touring cycles are less than enthused with the guy at this point but that’s honestly a minority of people. I’m not that surprised he can maintain audiences at shows despite how hit and (mostly) miss he is these days, especially since people like to see a trainwreck and it adds to the appeal.

    Nostalgia, teenagers and instant name recognition go a long way and as ridiculous as it sounds he’s still a figure that the mention of him can bring out strong reactions in people — the whole dick-sucking rib thing, Satanism and burning the flag are things that kids and teachers all remembered and brought up in school and that was within the last decade for me, plus the whole Columbine thing that never went away. There’s no one else I can think of who you could say you liked and get such a reaction out of people over it — there’s no feeling of danger or shock or controversy around anybody but because he made his impressions at the tale end of Old Celebrity he’s managed to keep that staying power somehow. For me growing up liking Marilyn Manson felt like a way of vicariously getting to experience what it was like when everyone knew who you were talking about, before streaming and YouTube fragmented everything into subcultures and before nobody gave a shit. That was an amazing feeling and one I don’t think will ever stop being something people search for. The guy could easily coast on greatest hits sets and make enough money to support his lifestyle forever which is exactly what he’s been doing sadly.
    Last edited by kleiner352; 06-07-2018 at 02:12 PM.

  4. #1744
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    Quote Originally Posted by kleiner352 View Post
    I’m in my (very) early 20s from a shitty small town and can say that in my experience Manson had a strong image/relevancy even a few years ago among teens. He’s one of the last rockstars that everybody knew the face and name of and still makes parents mad when they find out their kids are listening to him (and alternatively his parenting-age fans are now probably encouraging). I was in high school when Born Villain came out and and knew a lot of kids who talked about it, the guy’s image is practically a meme in the original sense of the word. Even people who can’t hum a single song know what he looks like (well, maybe not recently lol).

    As much as getting stuck in his early/mid-2000s image has damaged his creativity and ability to feel fresh again, it also has meant that he’s remained a recognizable figure to people and the themes his best work dealt with are pretty much timeless if you’re a sad kid in a small town with lots of religious hypocrisy around. People who don’t get deep into music often just remember the hits of people and Manson’s have had a lot of staying power over the years, he’s made music for teenagers most of his career and as much as people who know his work more realize he’s a shadow of what he once was, on a surface level from a distance he still looks like he represents the same things he used to (even if in reality he doesn’t).

    Marilyn Manson is a larger than life character thing that he got stuck inside of but the flipside of that is he’s one of the very last larger than life rockstar celebrities that managed to have their big relevancy just before the internet and social media swept that whole concept away. There’s a feeling of being a cultural constant around him that is both comforting/nostalgic for older fans and appealing and unreal to younger ones, because there’s basically no one else your parents remember hating and your older siblings loved and people you know still wear t-shirts of who has kept the same aesthetic and sound for so long. People who listen to full albums and talk about them at length and pay attention to touring cycles are less than enthused with the guy at this point but that’s honestly a minority of people. I’m not that surprised he can maintain audiences at shows despite how hit and (mostly) miss he is these days, especially since people like to see a trainwreck and it adds to the appeal.

    Nostalgia, teenagers and instant name recognition go a long way and as ridiculous as it sounds he’s still a figure that the mention of him can bring out strong reactions in people — the whole dick-sucking rib thing, Satanism and burning the flag are things that kids and teachers all remembered and brought up in school and that was within the last decade for me, plus the whole Columbine thing that never went away. There’s no one else I can think of who you could say you liked and get such a reaction out of people over it — there’s no feeling of danger or shock or controversy around anybody but because he made his impressions at the tale end of Old Celebrity he’s managed to keep that staying power somehow. For me growing up liking Marilyn Manson felt like a way of vicariously getting to experience what it was like when everyone knew who you were talking about, before streaming and YouTube fragmented everything into subcultures and before nobody gave a shit. That was an amazing feeling and one I don’t think will ever stop being something people search for. The guy could easily coast on greatest hits sets and make enough money to support his lifestyle forever which is exactly what he’s been doing sadly.
    Is that you, Haz?

  5. #1745
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    Quote Originally Posted by NotoriousTIMP View Post
    Is that you, Haz?
    Not enough weird font size changes and aol chatroom emojis (and, also, I'm suggesting Manson sucks at things recently, which is not something he would ever, ever do)

  6. #1746
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    Quote Originally Posted by kleiner352 View Post
    Not enough weird font size changes and aol chatroom emojis (and, also, I'm suggesting Manson sucks at things recently, which is not something he would ever, ever do)
    Whatever fake Haz. Go steal some Transformers promo items from your movie theater.

  7. #1747
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    Quote Originally Posted by dlb View Post
    While nothing seems to have happened the shows at Rock am Ring and Rock im Park in Germany were still frustrating to watch. The band has no chemistry at this point it seems which is not baffling at all and Manson while indeed able to reach some difficult notes here and there is just a dissapointment to watch if you haven't seen him before.

    Drowned in fog with ridicoulous speeches with the same old setlist, it's beyond my understanding how he can still tour that much. Is it really the quite good media echo to his records and some people willing to still buy tickets that keeps this train rolling?!

  8. #1748
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    Quote Originally Posted by NotoriousTIMP View Post
    Is that you, Haz?
    Quote Originally Posted by bobbie solo View Post
    Whatever fake Haz. Go steal some Transformers promo items from your movie theater.
    i know y'all are joking, but i can assure that having met both haz & kleiner in real life, they are 100% not the same person.

  9. #1749
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    Yeah but did you meet them at the same time?

  10. #1750
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    Quote Originally Posted by virushopper View Post
    It's due to what I've said numerous times...ride your name, man. Ride your name. Reach that one specific point of fame and regardless of what happens thereafter, or how washed up you become...you'll have a core group that will swear everything you shit out is solid gold.

  11. #1751
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    Quote Originally Posted by eversonpoe View Post
    i know y'all are joking, but i can assure that having met both haz & kleiner in real life, they are 100% not the same person.
    Haz is legit a nice guy IRL and not at all as in your face as his online persona haha

  12. #1752
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    Quote Originally Posted by tony.parente View Post
    Haz is legit a nice guy IRL and not at all as in your face as his online persona haha
    Stop being such a Hazenabler.







    Ugh I'm sorry. I'm putting myself on time out for that.

  13. #1753
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    Quote Originally Posted by kleiner352 View Post
    I’m in my (very) early 20s from a shitty small town and can say that in my experience Manson had a strong image/relevancy even a few years ago among teens. He’s one of the last rockstars that everybody knew the face and name of and still makes parents mad when they find out their kids are listening to him (and alternatively his parenting-age fans are now probably encouraging). I was in high school when Born Villain came out and and knew a lot of kids who talked about it, the guy’s image is practically a meme in the original sense of the word. Even people who can’t hum a single song know what he looks like (well, maybe not recently lol).

    As much as getting stuck in his early/mid-2000s image has damaged his creativity and ability to feel fresh again, it also has meant that he’s remained a recognizable figure to people and the themes his best work dealt with are pretty much timeless if you’re a sad kid in a small town with lots of religious hypocrisy around. People who don’t get deep into music often just remember the hits of people and Manson’s have had a lot of staying power over the years, he’s made music for teenagers most of his career and as much as people who know his work more realize he’s a shadow of what he once was, on a surface level from a distance he still looks like he represents the same things he used to (even if in reality he doesn’t).

    Marilyn Manson is a larger than life character thing that he got stuck inside of but the flipside of that is he’s one of the very last larger than life rockstar celebrities that managed to have their big relevancy just before the internet and social media swept that whole concept away. There’s a feeling of being a cultural constant around him that is both comforting/nostalgic for older fans and appealing and unreal to younger ones, because there’s basically no one else your parents remember hating and your older siblings loved and people you know still wear t-shirts of who has kept the same aesthetic and sound for so long. People who listen to full albums and talk about them at length and pay attention to touring cycles are less than enthused with the guy at this point but that’s honestly a minority of people. I’m not that surprised he can maintain audiences at shows despite how hit and (mostly) miss he is these days, especially since people like to see a trainwreck and it adds to the appeal.

    Nostalgia, teenagers and instant name recognition go a long way and as ridiculous as it sounds he’s still a figure that the mention of him can bring out strong reactions in people — the whole dick-sucking rib thing, Satanism and burning the flag are things that kids and teachers all remembered and brought up in school and that was within the last decade for me, plus the whole Columbine thing that never went away. There’s no one else I can think of who you could say you liked and get such a reaction out of people over it — there’s no feeling of danger or shock or controversy around anybody but because he made his impressions at the tale end of Old Celebrity he’s managed to keep that staying power somehow. For me growing up liking Marilyn Manson felt like a way of vicariously getting to experience what it was like when everyone knew who you were talking about, before streaming and YouTube fragmented everything into subcultures and before nobody gave a shit. That was an amazing feeling and one I don’t think will ever stop being something people search for. The guy could easily coast on greatest hits sets and make enough money to support his lifestyle forever which is exactly what he’s been doing sadly.

    I was thinking about this last week when I re-watched Dead to the World. Seeing all those people protesting his shows because they thought he was the Devil...when was the last time that happened? It's funny that we haven't really had another artist create that kind of response to their music. The most we get now is a bunch of angry tweets. Seeing those crowds of people holding up anti-Manson signs really does show the effect he had on people. He probably is the last rock star to scare the shit out of people. And like you said, that's probably a big factor for people going to see him now.

  14. #1754
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaydraven View Post
    I was thinking about this last week when I re-watched Dead to the World. Seeing all those people protesting his shows because they thought he was the Devil...when was the last time that happened? It's funny that we haven't really had another artist create that kind of response to their music. The most we get now is a bunch of angry tweets. Seeing those crowds of people holding up anti-Manson signs really does show the effect he had on people. He probably is the last rock star to scare the shit out of people. And like you said, that's probably a big factor for people going to see him now.
    I totally agree.

  15. #1755
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    For me, last time that happened was the the rape of the world tour, when Twiggy came back. I was walking and there was this dude yelling at people saying they were going to hell if they did not repent for there sins and rescue their soul or some shit. Couldnt tell if it was fake or not. Then again, there was a man on my campus earlier this year saying we were going to hell if we didnt save our selves. And this was to a bunch of IT students.

  16. #1756
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    Hahaha nah, it's what I said. People today aren't going to a show for MM or any similar act due to some protests on a home video 20+ years ago. It's because he's famous enough now that he could tour behind an album of 60 minutes of kazoo solos and certain people would STILL pay to see him. See: Guns 'n Roses, Limp Bizkit, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

  17. #1757
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conan The Barbarian View Post
    Then again, there was a man on my campus earlier this year saying we were going to hell if we didnt save our selves. And this was to a bunch of IT students.
    You underestimate computer nerds.

  18. #1758
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    I think a lot of us still go to shows and purchase albums in the hope that he will get it together eventually and return to form. Guys like Trent, Maynard etc are roughly the same age, engaged in some hard living etc: and they still making high-quality art and performing with excellence. At one point in time, Manson was an excellent performer and a strong lyricist- fans know he has it in him to do well and they see his peers still doing well so they hold out with the hope that things will get better.

    I have a lot of affection for the MM music I grew up with, but I think most of us know it’s not the same and it’s just wishful thinking to keep buying. I was a far bigger MM fan in the 90’s than I was of NIN, but in the end Trent just kept improving and growing and Manson didn’t. If anything, his writing abilities have declined a lot. I don’t know if he’s drinking a ton or if it’s narcotics or lack of interest that caused it, but I wish he would figure it out.

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    The studio version of Cry Little Sister is out today. Someday maybe we'll get that Johnny Cash cover...

  20. #1760
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    Quote Originally Posted by renton44 View Post
    The studio version of Cry Little Sister is out today. Someday maybe we'll get that Johnny Cash cover...
    That came out ages ago. Was from some direct to dvd movie. The ost is on iTunes and other places.



    i like it, sue me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Space Suicide View Post
    That came out ages ago. Was from some direct to dvd movie. The ost is on iTunes and other places.



    i like it, sue me.
    I like it too, didn't realize it has been out for ages as the Manson facebook page just announced the single being available today. My bad.

  22. #1762
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    What the hell. Was reading some of the comments on this on FB and most people were saying this sucked. I dig it!

  23. #1763
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaydraven View Post
    I was thinking about this last week when I re-watched Dead to the World. Seeing all those people protesting his shows because they thought he was the Devil...when was the last time that happened?
    Still had protesters in San Francisco 1999 & 2001, didn't see any in Portland 2001. I didn't see him again for 10 years and certainly no one cared by then....

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    I'm always interested in what Manson makes even though I know it can't top his best work. I was actually surprised by how good Heaven Upside Down was.

  25. #1765
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    Quote Originally Posted by renton44 View Post
    I like it too, didn't realize it has been out for ages as the Manson facebook page just announced the single being available today. My bad.
    No he meant this has been out for a while. And it's awesome, maybe my favorite cover by MM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Space Suicide View Post
    That came out ages ago. Was from some direct to dvd movie. The ost is on iTunes and other places.



    i like it, sue me.
    ...it's identical to the original.

  27. #1767
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    Quote Originally Posted by OSPF View Post
    ...it's identical to the original.
    Only more wailing. Reminds me of an old guy falling down a well or something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kaydraven View Post
    I was thinking about this last week when I re-watched Dead to the World. Seeing all those people protesting his shows because they thought he was the Devil...when was the last time that happened? It's funny that we haven't really had another artist create that kind of response to their music. The most we get now is a bunch of angry tweets. Seeing those crowds of people holding up anti-Manson signs really does show the effect he had on people. He probably is the last rock star to scare the shit out of people. And like you said, that's probably a big factor for people going to see him now.
    I think you nailed it - they have social media as an outlet now, I would say there's actually more controversies surrounding artists these days, but they're lower level and people play out their issues online.

    With gangster rap and supposedly satanic rock music, both hung around so long that they became cliche and less threatening. I don't know about America but in the uk, these sorts of things are seen as amusing and kind of camp these days

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    Quote Originally Posted by OSPF View Post
    ...it's identical to the original.
    Keep cryin' bitch nigga.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    I think you nailed it - they have social media as an outlet now, I would say there's actually more controversies surrounding artists these days, but they're lower level and people play out their issues online.

    With gangster rap and supposedly satanic rock music, both hung around so long that they became cliche and less threatening. I don't know about America but in the uk, these sorts of things are seen as amusing and kind of camp these days
    Itís not shocking anymore.

    But the thing with Manson was always about freedom of thought, questioning everything instead of swallowing everything youíre told without subjecting it to some sort of analysis. He did take it on religion, nationalism, violence, the media, etc. The reaction was huge back then, and it happened in a very early age of the internet. Today, in contrast, everything is online... big uproar on social media... who gives a fuck? Nobody, it just gets lost in the noise of memes, me too stories, cat videos, stupid food instagram accounts that show you food that looks cool and delicious, but donít tell you how itís made or even what the dish is called, soccer momsí blogs, etc.

    Itís not threatening anymore, people donít care. Itís not shocking. Itís not thought-provoking. Itís just seen as eccentricism. Besides he doesnít have the same influence on kids. Now itís mostly adults (who started following him when they were adolescents), and adults are not rebelious, we donít get that privilege.

    I wish he comes back to former shape. I donít expect him or want him to release albums that are derivative of his good old days, thatís lazy, cheap, and it sucks. Today there are plenty of subjects that could cause controversy and that could be the foundation of the level of artistry he once had. If anything, society has moved even more towards a model where questioning things turns you into a target for not conforming to the norm. But thatís risky business nowadays. It was a risky business too back then, and he did it beautifully, but he was younger, more fearless and confrontational. Also, he didnít get out of it unscathed, and Iím not sure he or anyone who has been in that situation would want to go through it again.

    Honestly, I donít know what it is... drugs? Alcohol? Depression? Writerís block? Lack of inspiration? Maybe he doesnít want to have anything to do with it anymore? It seems heís just choosing the easy part: graphic shock in his videos, but nuns with guns and a starved pussy is just ďmehĒ, too easy and basic.

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