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Thread: Juno

  1. #91
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    Nobody has a lawful right to listen to a for pay song for free unless it's coming from a source that pays the artist for providing that song for free. Otherwise you're a thief.
    Last edited by cashpiles; 07-05-2016 at 08:59 AM.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by cashpiles View Post
    Nobody has a lawful right to listen to a for pay song for free unless it's coming from a source that pays the artist for providing that song for free. Otherwise you're a thief.
    In terms of "lawful right" you are correct. When it comes to "moral right" people are less inclined to think that stealing from a mega-corporation that built its empire, in part, upon the backs of slave labor is immoral. That's part of the baggage TR gets from teaming up with Apple. Trent may like to think of Apple, as @WorzelG points out, as high minded artist-engineers, but he'd be a fool (or willfully ignorant) to ignore the other tentacles of Apple when he decides to attach his "art" to their name.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by HurtinMinorKey View Post
    In terms of "lawful right" you are correct. When it comes to "moral right" people are less inclined to think that stealing from a mega-corporation that built its empire, in part, upon the backs of slave labor is immoral. That's part of the baggage TR gets from teaming up with Apple. Trent may like to think of Apple, as @WorzelG points out, as high minded artist-engineers, but he'd be a fool (or willfully ignorant) to ignore the other tentacles of Apple when he decides to attach his "art" to their name.
    stealing is also morally wrong.

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by cashpiles View Post
    stealing is also morally wrong.
    I'll add that some might call it "illegally reproduced" since nothing physical was actually stolen.

  5. #95
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    Off-Topic: I miss 2007-ets.
    On-Topic: Nice track - the Eno-comparison someone made is apt, but I like how it turns more and more Reznor-ish towards the end. Only listened to it once, can't wait for a perfect occasion.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by HurtinMinorKey View Post
    I'll add that some might call it "illegally reproduced" since nothing physical was actually stolen.
    this is illusory semantics

    Quote Originally Posted by HurtinMinorKey View Post
    In terms of "lawful right" you are correct. When it comes to "moral right" people are less inclined to think that stealing from a mega-corporation that built its empire, in part, upon the backs of slave labor is immoral. That's part of the baggage TR gets from teaming up with Apple. Trent may like to think of Apple, as @WorzelG points out, as high minded artist-engineers, but he'd be a fool (or willfully ignorant) to ignore the other tentacles of Apple when he decides to attach his "art" to their name.
    I don't disagree with your impression of Apple at all. What interests me is the unstated assumption of the perspective you describe, which is to say that a "moral right" exists in relation to others. In other words, that someone else's (or, in this case, a corporation's) moral fallibility lessens your own moral obligation. To wit: if you accept the premise that "moral rights" exist, do your obligations in relation to that moral right exist only in relation to someone else's? This is not the same as evaluating moral culpability on a scale (i.e. murder is worse than theft) but rather a weird (albeit not impossible) premise that your moral duty to someone else depends on their own morality. (to use an exaggerated example, that murdering in cold blood a murderer is "less bad" than murdering an innocent person.)

    Moreover, given that, I assume, we both agree there is no objective morality scale (i.e., neither of us accept a religious text as controlling -- not that that would matter much, given that no religious texts touch on intellectual property), others' "moral rights" exist on a spectrum only relevant to your own perspective.

    My own thoughts:
    1) You either accept the premise of "intellectual property" or not. If you accept the premise that ideas can be property, you are definitionally importing concepts of property onto them.
    2a) Assuming you accept the premise of "intellectual property," the unauthorized use of that property is definitionally theft. It has differences from theft of "real" (meatspace) property, but those differences do not affect the implication/definition of "theft" in this context.
    2b) If, however, you do not accept the premise of "intellectual property," you either think 1) ideas should be completely free - i.e., abolish all copyright, patent, etc. laws -- or 2) that "intellectual property" is a misnomer and such concepts are more appropriately defined in another fashion.

    I think only way a subjective moral right can enter the equation is with the last category is if you fall into 2(b)(2). If so, I think you have the existential problem of morality to contend with before you even get to any of the other questions. To pick just one of those questions, let's assume that Apple uses truly "slave labor" (which is itself a complicated question to answer) -- is boycotting Apple the best way to liberate those slaves? Or are you valuing your own moral certitude over giving money to the "slaves", however indirectly?

    CAVEAT: Pretty buzzed and tired, may not be thinking this through correctly.

  7. #97
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    ^^^my problem with the slave labour thing is it applies to all such companies so anyone who owns a smartphone or whatever is culpable of the same thing and has no right to claim any high road which they do all the time with Apple.

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    So - habe they stopped doing interviews or what? New song released: first TRAR score without Fincher, collaboration with the NASA. And no word from either one of them apart from that Twitter announcement?

    I'd be interested in hearing about the process, the motives, the inspirations. Anyone else finds this silence strange?

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by SchwarzerAbt View Post
    So - habe they stopped doing interviews or what? New song released: first TRAR score without Fincher, collaboration with the NASA. And no word from either one of them apart from that Twitter announcement?

    I'd be interested in hearing about the process, the motives, the inspirations. Anyone else finds this silence strange?
    I find it disconcerting. And a little aloof.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by SchwarzerAbt View Post
    Anyone else finds this silence strange?
    Not really. I mean, what are they going to say? They also might be working on other stuff right now and don't have time to do interviews about one single track.

  11. #101
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    It's just the exciting calm before the NIN Storm.

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by WorzelG View Post
    ^^^my problem with the slave labour thing is it applies to all such companies so anyone who owns a smartphone or whatever is culpable of the same thing and has no right to claim any high road which they do all the time with Apple.
    if we are defining slave labor in this way, it applies to almost every single consumer good you can purchase. (it's also a sort of offensive way to think about slavery.)

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by BRoswell View Post
    Not really. I mean, what are they going to say? They also might be working on other stuff right now and don't have time to do interviews about one single track.
    Maybe you're right. But I miss the good old times when the NIN-camp was more active on the interwebs... :-(

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by SchwarzerAbt View Post
    Maybe you're right. But I miss the good old times when the NIN-camp was more active on the interwebs... :-(
    Parenthood.

  15. #105
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    https://itunes.apple.com/us/post/ids...3-b0eee39c0fee

    nin.com has a link to the Juno video on Apple Music. I finally watched it. You know what? Trent and Atticus have done an incredible job. The music builds and shifts perfectly with the progression of the short film. This is Trent and Atticus' greatest scoring achievement. Like this shows that they are on their A game now. They did it. It makes sense. It's moving. And it amplifies and complements the video perfectly.

    I think this really is the future for Trent and Atticus. This seems to be where their passion is now and I fully support them. Top quality stuff.

  16. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by cashpiles View Post
    https://itunes.apple.com/us/post/ids...3-b0eee39c0fee

    nin.com has a link to the Juno video on Apple Music. I finally watched it. You know what? Trent and Atticus have done an incredible job. The music builds and shifts perfectly with the progression of the short film. This is Trent and Atticus' greatest scoring achievement. Like this shows that they are on their A game now. They did it. It makes sense. It's moving. And it amplifies and complements the video perfectly.

    I think this really is the future for Trent and Atticus. This seems to be where their passion is now and I fully support them. Top quality stuff.

    The video won't load for me for some reason. Just sits there saying Loading...

    Like this:






    Could it be because of my location?
    Last edited by Ryan; 07-09-2016 at 03:11 AM.

  17. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmtd View Post

    Which way around are you saying the idolatry goes? Is Eno on record as liking Reznor? Or vice versa?
    Vice versa:see 9:24


  18. #108
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    I've been falling asleep to this for the past two months the same as I do to the other Trentticus stuff and having these groovy space-themed dreams because of it..

  19. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan View Post
    The video won't load for me for some reason. Just sits there saying Loading...



  20. #110
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    Yah I got it working eventually, ta anyway.

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