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Faceplams: But he wasn't CGI. They used a real puppet again. They made a replica of the original puppet, even.Originally Posted by Volband
Active Member
But he wasn't CGI. They used a real puppet again. They made a replica of the original puppet, even.
Active Member
Well, the verdict is in folks. TLJ was a massive flop. There's unlikely to be another Star Wars movie ever again.
http://www.looper.com/102789/star-wa...ampaign=markfb
Member
Active Member
Don't ruin his hatefest!
Active Member
The more I discuss this film, the more the initial euphoria of Spoiler: Luke’s passing with the sunsets, the more I realize that overall with this particular installment of Star Wars, my general feeling is:
Active Member
Okay, I was wrong. But why is he still ugly and out of place? You guys jump on the fact that I thought it was bad CGI, and feel vindicated when it turns out it was just bad puppeteering.
Since there are people who understand movie's income more than I am, I'd just quote someone from reddit:
"The numbers are huge but the performance is still subpar. Final box office for TLJ is gonna be somewhere around 650, which means it won't even reach x3 of it's 220 million domestic opening. It's subpar for Christmas release date, and it has weaker box office legs than TFA(x3.7) and Rogue One(x3.45)"
So let me translate what you guys are upvoting currently: "TLJ is the weakest Star Wars release by Disney, even being outperformed by a spin-off movie, but it made much more than Beauty and the Beast, so there is really no other evidence needed that this is - without a doubt - an amazing SW movie."
It's very sad when the only way this movie can be defended is by either hyperboles or saying things out of context.
Active Member
TFA was the first SW movie in ten years, and featured most of the original cast. TLJ is now the third SW movie in three years, so you can expect a slight drop-off. A billion in two weeks, yeah, a real flop.
Active Member
Can you quote anyone saying TLJ will be a financial disaster, or even just a flop for Disney? You are boxing with shadows here, unless you tried to make a point that a bigger view number equals higher quality. To which - out of the endless examples - let's say this one: It's Everyday Bro has 166 million views, while The Hand That Feeds has 15 million.
I just don't get why are you guys high-fiving each other to the fact that a Disney produced Star Wars movie is reaping the big bucks currently.
House Always Wins
The puppet was ugly and almost matched the same look as the one in The Phantom Menace.
Active Member
No, it didn't. You can go ahead and think that it was ugly – that's your opinion, but it looked nothing like that version from TPM.The puppet was ugly and almost matched the same look as the one in The Phantom Menace.
House Always Wins
I said almost. I didn't say it was. Neither TLJ or TPM puppets matched the original trilogy's. Only point I was making.
BADGERS
I'm baffled that anyone cares what Yoda looked like.
I'm gonna take this opportunity to double down and say this was good movie and that I'm glad they nuked Snoke instead of giving us yet another count dooku
Vertiginous Member
Well, he was kind of... almost exactly Count Dooku, right?
Spoiler: Big build-up, strong thesping, appears in two movies, major player in the overall plot, top-tier Force user, mysterious backstory... but just kind of dies. Not that there's anything wrong with killing your screen villains, but both feel rather under-exploited.
Last edited by Vertigo; 01-01-2018 at 07:26 PM.
Active Member
Ah, good ole' Attack of the Clones.
Movie: "Omg, it's Count Dooku!!!!!"
Me: "Who?"
Active Member
I thought Yoda looked spot on.
Now Vader in Rogue One... thats another story. he looked and sounded so weird, it took me out of the movie.
Throbbing Member
Darth Vader looks different between ANH and ESB. The Emperor in ESB looks and sounds nothing like the Emperor in ROTJ. Luke looks somewhat different in ROTJ than he did in the previous two installments (due to Mark Hamill’s accident). Kylo Ren had his facial scar strategically relocated for cool factor between TFA and TLJ. Yoda looking different due to reasons isn’t something unprecedented for characters in this franchise.
Administrator
I still cried my fucking eyes out when muppet Yoda showed up and that sweeping John Williams score came running through so yes, the scene was perfect and it threw me back to my childhood where I watched ESB at 6 years old and Yoda told our hero he didn't know shit. Same thing 26 years later (for me) so it was perfect. PERFECT.
Muppet Yoda > CGI Yoda ALL DAMN DAY.
Administrator
I'm going to participate more in this thread because this damn movie is being treated like film school study and I can't even.
Leia floating in space with her theme playing? DESTROYED ME. Yoda telling Luke he didn't know shit? AMAZING. Luke and Leia reuniting with their theme from ROTJ playing the background? DESTROYED AGAIN. Canto Bight being a direct relation to corporations betting on wars and their outcomes? SPOT ON. Rose being the best character next to Admiral Holdo? YES. Poe showing toxic masculinity and then realizing his privilege and stepping aside? YES AGAIN.
This was a damn good time at the cinema and I'm still mad at myself that I've only seen this thing once.
24.24.2.2866
At least Dooku benefits from the Clone Wars, that Snoke guy doesn't have diddly squat at this point.
Administrator
You and I both know that there’s going to be a Snoke comic or novel.
she/her/hers
you and me both! (although i've seen it twice)
the longer i sit with this movie the more i love it. the more people i talk to about it who also loved it, the happier it makes me.
i'm bummed it seems to be so divisive, because i don't want disney to pull back on taking these kinds of risks with star wars. in my opinion, every risk paid off.
Member
I'm still in the camp that I enjoyed it. I loved the fact that it took risks and not try to dumb itself down or open with a story about a fucking tax dispute.
Memb, Member, The Membest
I went to see ep VIII once, on 30th, without seeing trailers, with only ep VII in mind.
It's a good movie, i had a great time, and after some thought i really do share most of WTF moments with y'all
Must say there were several moments where i looked up time on phone time because i thought: "damn do we have more time to see this story element/character developed? i hope so, because if not now, when else?"
What it shows the best is chaos of war and how everybody loses their mind for one reason or another, where people as individuals and as groups don't see farther than their nose. It's uncalculated and that i liked.
What i disliked is how many important characters don't get to play the role they were carefully set up to.
First, the ex-stormtrooper Finn who shined in previous movie now just drags himself along the script in unnecessary scenes. Even his dueling moment is awkward.
Second, the new dark master Snoke or i better call him whatshisface because that's what he is - no backstory, no surprising dialog, nothing. I kind of expect that in next episode somebody discusses who he was and how he got to power and at least explain why Kylo was with him in the first place.
Third, Luke. I understand and appreciate his decision to stay on that distant planet and try to not get involved. But i don't buy the master/apprentice story. But now we understand a bit more why Kylo is so confused all the time.
Fourth, Rey - because she was complete dead zombie all the time, her act as dynamic and important to the story as friggin Jar Jar Binks. I still don't know why she had to be in this episode - she weren't important to anything but the lightsaber battle. Even her lifting of the stones could be easily replaced by Leia.
Overall, i think Episode Eight a bridge to a bigger war and bigger personal conflict that we'll see later. It gives more questions than it answers and i sure hope the Episode Nine will be a little more focused.
6/10
Active Member
I somehow got to watch the movie yesterday for a 4th time in 4D. I'm already playing a game by trying to guess some sentences before they are even said, so I won't go to the cinema until at least summer. But it was my first 4D movie opportunity and my friends were going so... anyway, 4D is not too convincing. With pills, the motion sickness was very bearable, but the air machine was sooo loud (while the movie being quiet) and many times unnecessary. It worked GREAT with the space fights though.
After the movie, it was interesting to hear 3 other people discussing the movie, one of them never even saw a SW movie before! The most polarizing scene for everyone I went to see it was always Luke's appearance as a Force projection and his death.
And I always forgot to criticize this scene, so finally I remembered to do it: when Kylo fires his rockets into the hangar, how did he survive? There was no place to turn with his ship, and it was a pretty big explosion.
(and a correction: that Poe scene is indeed dubbed, but the audio quality is shit)
Yeah, the more I see it, the more convinced I am that Episode IX will have a bunch of Jedi battling a bunch of Sith Prequel-style. You just have to stop thinking how could this happen and go with the flow.
Take a step back and realize that everything you praised with CAPITALIZED WORDS were something the movie touched you on a personal level. You see, that is something I wouldn't even want to go deeper into, because my aim is not to ruin the movie for everyone. My mother liked it a lot, she enjoyed Luke and Yoda, she liked to see Leia again, etc. I rather leave her in her bubble, than bringing in a whiteboard and some markers to just destroy the movie.
I mean, do you hold a 30-minutes long lecture for someone who just told you they like a few NIN songs and their favorite being the song called fuck you like an animal, because they have fond memories with it? Sure, maybe you correct the title, but you won't start any sentence with "actually..." and start a rant about how many better songs there are.
As an understanding of why and how certain people are over the Moon for this movie, your opinion is insightful and should help many of understand why so many people (around the world) being offended that this movie is being attacked left and right. But most of these are purely emotional stuff, and you can't really bring them to arguments. Ie. "But I cried..." is not a solid refute to a scene being hammered, nor "I liked him/her" is a solid excuse for a terribly written character.
Last edited by Volband; 01-02-2018 at 05:01 AM.
Stubby Member
Agree on all points, except I've seen it twice.
To add to the list, R2D2 calling back to Help me obi wan Kenobi, to snap Luke out of his exile.
House Always Wins
Seeing this film reinvigorated my Star Wars fandom and nerding out to it. Been buying merchandise and books pretty frequently. I just HAD to buy the Captain Phasma novel and I bought the Aftermath trilogy of books that chronicles the final days of the Empire in ROTJ after the Death Star II destruction and the Emperor's death.
I also have gotten better at Battlefront II, unconnected with above but still worth saying haha.
Can't wait for the blu-ray.
24.24.2.2866
Canto Bight food for thought.
she/her/hers
my roommate / friend jon gave me a Rose POP for my b-day!!!
Throbbing Member
I'm surprised most people don't get that from that whole plot.
Throbbing Member
As stated before, DJ’s dialog with Finn was about the most interesting thing in this movie for me. His perspective had a ring of truth. Over time Luke could have stepped back to see that people in the galaxy weren’t necessarily dying in droves because of an evil empire, but rather because of an apparently ceaseless civil war of which the rebellion was an equally guilty party, war goaded by zealot polar opposite force users.
Luke’s self imposed retirement would have been much more interesting and satisfying for me if it was because he had come to that conclusion. That the galaxy was doomed to ceaseless proxy wars and death if the light and dark spectrum in the force remained at odds. If he had come to realize that true peace could only come through acceptance and complete balance between the two, as may be suggested by the temple mosaic where he is at, showing the prime (or first) Jedi centered between light and dark.
Even Snoke insinuated that as Kylo rose in the dark ranks, the force would produce a counterbalance in the light side (presumably Rey, who despite no training can go toe to toe with Kylo apparently because the force just makes her his match). It stands to reason that the opposite would also be true, if the light side became overpowered the force would produce dark side equivalents to push back (like Plagueis, Palpatine, Vader against the Jedi order). What if Luke had come to that conclusion? That war would never really end unless the force was in balance, which would call for force users to became truly centered, and this is why he believed the jedi must end. That it’s not about destroying the dark side, because such a thing wouldn’t ever be possible, but rather embracing both sides for the best possible outcome. It could be reasoned that Luke did just this without realizing it, that in ROTJ he employed both the light and the dark to successfully redeem his father and defeat the Emperor.
What if Luke’s true failure had instead been that following the destruction of the Sith, his paradigm shift back to the light by training more in the jedi ways and teachings is what gave birth to this new rise in the dark with Snoke and consuming Ben as a dark side counterbalance.
Any thoughts?
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