Active Member
Very true. After reading comments all over the internet, it seems to be even more polarizing or divisive than TFA. Even stranger, it's hard to tell who's going to like it. A friend of mine I expected to dislike it (mostly because he wasn't a fan of TFA) said it might be his favorite of all of them. Another friend of mine who really disliked TFA I fully expect to hate TLJ, but for different reasons.Originally Posted by RhettButler
BADGERS
I like all the last 3 Star Was movie. I like Rogue One the most, I still like VIII a LOT more than VII. All of the quality in The Force Awakens is weighted in it's first act. There's a lot of character building, amazing pacing, wonderful visuals. Everything goes to shit when Han Solo shows up, complete with a prequel-esque rathtar sequence. From their TFA becomes incredibly boring, dropping the ball and undercutting even a moment where an entire solar system is destroyed,. The air fighting throughout always feels tacked on and empty. So much of the Force Awakens is random, and when we are talking about bearing the weight of the story telling, Abrams really the one who put the weight on everyone else, by creating a mystery in a franchise that has never really been built on mysteries, and really only has one major twist throughout. TFA's final two acts are carried by Kylo Ren and his magneticism. They aren't bad, but they aren't ANYTHING. I'm not one of those guys who expected TFA to magically abandon the heroes journey, that wasn't the issue.
TLJ rids this trilogy of a lot of TFA's bullshit. And it's got an opposite issue: most of the good stuff is in the second and third act, when the weight is finally put on Luke/Rey, and almost everything terrible is contained in the already infamous casino subplot.
It deconstructs star wars in a lot of fascinating ways, but I get the feeling Johnson was probably on a leash here. He wants to question the merits of a rebellion that let's roguish fighter pilots spearhead risky plans, by having his superiors hold their ground and dismiss him, he's not special, he doesn't know better than them. Spoiler: Rey's parents being nobody is brilliant she isn't special, and the notion of some kind of sacred destiny is dismissed. Spoiler: killing snoke . Is brilliant. I always forgot he existed. He took up valuable time, but Spoiler: watching Ren cast off his useless helmet . It's all a wonderful rejection of the useless reverence found in Abrams version of the plot.
At one point, a character talks about the profitability of arms sold to both sides of the war, a surprising and relevant critique that, of course goes no where.... But in star wars that's a big deal.
And then Spoiler: Luke was the one who turned Kylo Ren. Not snoke. And that was great too, Luke is not a god. Luke fucked up. It's an amazing moment, unfortunately ruined by the now apparent inability to save Kylo Ren. No one gets redeemed
Eversonpoe is probably right, we were building towards Leia's movie. More importantly, the movie where Spoiler: Leia, having lost her Brother, father, and husband finally confronts her own son, explorations of the relationships between children and their parents being THE unifying thread in all of these trilogies. The lost opportunity is a true tragedy and if we end up with a movie where Spoiler: Rey just goes and kills Kylo Ren, the end . Than that would be pretty goddamn boring
she/her/hers
serious question: why does everyone hate Rose so much? she felt like such an analog for all the marginalized people currently struggling in america while the forces of oppression gather momentum. it's the first time i've ever seen any allegory in a star wars film rather than exploration of classic archetypes. it was refreshing and more than welcome. i also thought she had a fun energy and a great sense of humor.
also - when people complain about the humor in this movie, are they forgetting how many goofy moments there are in the original trilogy?
Active Member
I don't think it's as bad as some people are making it out to be, like people trying to say it's as bad as the prequels. But I did find it mediocre.
And as for The Force Awaken, it was alright, but I definitely have to echo people saying it felt like a rehash of A New Hope.
BADGERS
I don't hate rose, I hate the plot she's a part of
Active Member
@Wretchedest Well, I guess our different view is more understandable now, because I thought the scenes with Han were some of the best.
I strongly disagree with how easily Rian threw away stuff from the TFA, except the Spoiler: mask, that one made sense. But the rest was more of a cop out. Spoiler: Snoke, the training on the island, Rey's parents were all thrown away because Mr. Johnson did not like them. Well boo-hoo, it might have been a bad decision on Disney's part to hire multiple directors, but it is what it is, and it is an extremely childish and selfish thing to do. Great, everything is equal, Spoiler: no one is special and don't forget to love eachother, kids! I say no thanks, I rather watch A New Hope about the son of a fallen Jedi, and 3 prequels about how the Chosen One had fallen from grace. Interesting, George Lucas could write a story about a simple farmboy whose father was Darth Vader, covering both bases. Spoiler: J.J. tried to go that way too, but Rian retconned it and now we are set up for the final episode without anything interesting. J.J. and Lucas made me look forward for the story (yes, even in the prequels), Rian made a weird one, which would be fine if he didn't sacrifice almost everything this trilogy had going for it in the process.
Rose was going nowhere. She wasn't dead-cliché, but you couldn't give any reason why she had any place in this story. Lando Carlissian and Count Dooku were also characters introduced in later episodes but at least they had a place in the story. Rose is like some girl's fanfic with one of the main protagonist. Absolutely unnecessary and I can't wait for episode IX, where the cleaning crew will blow up Death Star number 4.
And it triggers me to no end that whenever a criticism surfaces, the answer is that "it's been done before!" First of all, if something bad was done before, it is still bad. Moreover, this movie absolutely overdid the goofy stuff. Some scenes were straight out from Gru, and other scenes made serious ones feel lackluster. Yes, cute little animals are cute and BB-8 is adorable. The latter held up a torch as a thumbs up in the last episode and everyone laughed, good one. In this episode? Yeah... it was seriously annoying and immersion breaking.
This movie just had to have one comedy sketch every 15 minutes. It didn't matter if people were literally burning to death in the scene, you gotta goof. Overall, the humor was misplaced, forced, extremely childish and just too damn much. Obviously not all of them.
Active Member
Oh, and to be fair, let me say one thing: I liked the way Rian DIRECTED the movie. The guy never seen The Force Awakens and no one told him he is supposed to set up another episode, but man oh man, it felt unique watching the directing of this movie. No, I did not necessarily liked everything in the way he directed it, but it nailed down the tone he was aiming for perfectly.
And this is probably my dream recipe: please me with an exciting story and good characters (J.J.) but make me uncomfortable and keep me on my toes with the directing (Rian).
Stubby Member
I loved it, better than all but TFA and ESB IMO. I think TFA was a bit tighter but TLJ had some of the best direction, acting and writing of the series. Everything felt more grounded and real than the other movies to me.
I'd love to see a director's cut. Though Rian Johnson's fingerprints are all over the movie, my main criticism is it dragged at times and there were some superfluous elements. All of the Star Wars movies are full of plotholes and characters designed to sell merch, but it's not really Rian Johnson's style. He's known for tight writing and direction, I think some of it might have been lost in collaboration.
All of the original movies have big flaws, some people can't take off their rose coloured glasses when looking back.
Throbbing Member
Found on Reddit:
TFA tried so hard to be good it forgot to be different.
TLJ tried so hard to be different it forgot to be good.
Active Member
Does Vader' mask show up again?
Active Member
Spoiler: It does not.
House Always Wins
So, big Star Wars fan entering the thread finally...
*Cue Imperial March theme*
Seen it this morning with my best friend at 9am at the AMC Theater in Charlotte which had an exclusive poster (1 of 4) for every Sunday of week after release. I also caved and bought a collectable popcorn tin (2 of 3) that has Kylo Ren, Finn and Rey on it. Anyways,
I never watched any trailers minus the initial teaser and pretty much avoided any discussion or talking points in this thread and elsewhere. I knew of some spoilers I sought out but they weren't definitively detailed. I must say I really enjoyed the film.
The film differed from previous installments tying to the original trilogy and I applaud the direction they took. The Force Awakens was a good movie but very safe, familiar and recycled a lot of A New Hope's plot points. Rogue One was phenomenal but also had to tone down its narrative to fit into the pre-determined arc of the Death Star's completion to bridge from Revenge Of The Sith to A New Hope. This was the first film I felt like they could and would do what they wanted with source material and make it true and unique to its own. Nothing going forward ties to things of the past so it gives a lot of free reign of creativity and the plot decisions.
Overall the film had solid direction and meandering ideas and some hit and some missed, which I'll be going on about next. Before I do, I dreaded the humor hate and talk that people expressed everywhere where it sounded so forced and shoehorned in for a laugh but I was surprised after watching this to find it was largely over exaggerated. Some wasn't necessary but it didn't detract from the film to me. If i had to complain, I'd say the Porgs being in scenes weren't always needed.
The Good
Spoiler: Kylo Ren Development and Struggles, I appreciated his indecisiveness to fire on the ship his mother was on yet had no visual remorse killing his father in the previous film. He is a conflicted character and they do a good job building on it, i just hope they make him commit to it. Which brings me to my next point on the death of Supreme Leader Snoke. I was both surprised and ultimately not TOO upset by the death of the shadow puppeteer in this film. I loved witnessing his immense power and influence in this film however that was cut short and I should be upset but I wasn't. His death by Kylo Ren betrayal was something I enjoyed because his death is a starting point for Kylo Ren's further trek to the Dark Side. It just sucks his character was defeated in a short stint of screen time. His Praetorian Guards were so awesome as well. Much better than the Crimson Guards for Emperor Palpatine. If there's anything they get right in these films is just how so badass and well designed the Villains are in these new films of the next Trilogy. I always gravitated to the darker characters in storylines and I appreciate how well crafted some of the First Order are. I am also displeased about another but will get into that with the bad.
Luke Skywalker's nihilism and overall crippling sense of defeat to me was very well done. He seemed to hold no regard for anything, even to the point where it absorbed his personality from previous films and even made him abandon his family and friends. Some say it felt uncharacteristic but his plotline of losing Ben was something that was a defining factor for his elderly appearance in the film. Which brings me to Rey. I found her relationship to him and his reluctance to fully accept her to train is something I had hoped would be addressed and it was. I felt there was enough talk and explanation for her motives and his to drive a training story line forward. I wasn't a big fan of Rey in the first film but I enjoyed her character in this one. It felt more spaced out and tangible. I also must commend the writers for me actually liking Finn and Poe Dameron this time around, considering I disliked them heavily in TFA and felt they added nothing.
The plot was good, although a bit simplistic. It stayed in a small portion of the galaxy and I liked that. It didn't have much exploration and its fine there wasn't. The thing felt rushed according to people and paper thin but I feel it added to the impact of this just being a random occurrence and it devolved into a life or death battle for the entire Resistance in the matter of a few minutes.
The Bad
Spoiler: Captain Phasma, I fucking HATE what they did with this character. I hated it in TFA and I did here too. I guess I will have to go read the book to get some exposition and scenes for this villain. I find the lack of actual use for her in this film other than a 2 minute Finn plotpoint atrocious. Now she's dead (inferred?) its even more infuriating.
The entire Hacker/Casino subplot felt a bit ambitious and great after the initial reveal but didn't really add up to much and ultimately was a waste as the goal wasn't even achieved and the Rebels still had to evacuate via escape ships. It drives the plot forward but if the goal wasn't achieved they could've surely used Finn elsewhere in the film that would've amounted to something more time worthy. It was a fun detour from the main conflict but could've been presented better. I didn't hate it but it had issues, nor did I hate the Rose character I hear people bellyaching about.
I am satisfied with what we learned and were told but some questions from TFA could've been addressed better or answered more concisely. I won't get into it but everyone should know what I mean. I'm not upset by the handling of these but in hindsight they should've never been presented in TFA if they weren't going to be addressed or handled more. I could go on and on but won't.
Get at me!
Last edited by Space Suicide; 12-17-2017 at 03:16 PM.
Member
I saw it this morning as I'm currently working on my review right now. I'm still unsure whether it's better than TFA but I did enjoy it as I also enjoyed the developments in Kylo Ren and Poe. I like the narrative arcs as well as Luke's where it does showcase his own faults and faces it. The scenes with Leia are incredible as I also enjoyed what Laura Dern did in the film. I had a ball watching this film but now I'm wondering.... what the hell are they going to do next? The ending kind of gave an idea of what might happen but there's so much that is left in the open.
House Always Wins
Spoiler: I bet if Carrie Fisher didn't pass away the next film would be her working for peace and going face to face with her son as he is now the Supreme Leader of the First Order. Alas, doubt it'll happen now.
Member
True. That is my major concern. Spoiler: Now that it's likely that Poe would be the new leader of the Resistance. There was also that child who is carrying that Rebellion ring and has the Force. It's a hopeful ending but also baffling in some ways.
Active Member
I think this movie did a good job with Spoiler: setting up Poe as a leader. He learned some important lessons in this movie, and I can totally buy him being the leader.
Active Member
ah well okay, I have seen all of his movies but once so you are far ahead of picking up details in his style. sorry, didn't want to sound too harsh.
Active Member
I saw it and thought it was great. Everything I thought was going to happen and my notions where this story was headed were turned on its head... and that is exciting. Where I left The Force Awakens thinking I knew where this trilogy was going, I left The Last Jedi without a clue what we have in store for the next one.
Here's an amazing, well thought review of why this is a great Star Wars movie, of course WARNING, it has SPOILERS...
‘The Last Jedi’ Doesn’t Care What You Think About ‘Star Wars’ – And That’s Why It’s Great
http://www.slashfilm.com/the-last-jedi-defense
Matador de Froot Loops
Liked it a lot!
The Story is not perfect and the scrpt is a bit distracted, but man! it had awesome moments!
she/her/hers
Spoiler: i think the point was to show that, like with many of the actions Poe tries to take, plans don't always work out. the "good guys" don't always win. some actions do have real, true consequences. it was about finn & rose trying to execute their own plan under the nose of the new rebel leadership and fucking up, because that's just what happens sometimes. and i think that's why it was so necessary, because so much of this movie is built around the theme of failure.
it was great to read all your thoughts, though! so many of them lined up with mine!
Hairy Member
Yesterday was the first time I have ever walked out of a Star Wars movie.
Active Member
Saw it yesterday and thought it was ok, same way I felt after TFA. I did feel that this one was just too long, that whole casino sub-plot made it drag. I liked TFA a lot better on a second viewing so maybe the same will happen with this.
Member
Here's my full review of the film: http://thevoid99.blogspot.com/2017/1...last-jedi.html
Now that I've been thinking about it more. The concept of failure is a real bold and ballsy move that Rian Johnson did as it is about learning from your mistakes. It's in Luke, it's in Kylo, it's in Rey, it's in Finn & Rose, and it's in Poe. I think this is right idea of where the series needed to go and we kind of need this. After all, here in America. We're dealing with the fact that we have an asshole who doesn't believe in failure yet had businesses around him that failed as he's never learned from it. How the fuck can we even trust him in running this country if he's such a fuck-up that doesn't learn from his failures?
Active Member
Well you missed a good movie.
Behold the morning star
Apparently he didnt think so.
Active Member
I was left feeling generally positive about the movie, and it was mostly enjoyable, but there was something about it that I really didn't like, and I know exactly what it is.
I don't know how many of you are also Doctor Who fans, but for those of you who are, in Peter Capaldi's first episode there's a scene at the end, where Matt Smith's doctor calls Clara and pleads with her to give him a chance. And that scene was so obviously there because Peter Capaldi was such a departure from the doctor that Matt Smith was, that the writers were basically begging the audience to give Peter Capaldi a chance.
And a lot of Luke's dialogue felt like that. It felt a lot of Luke's scenes and interactions were there only to try and convince the fans to enjoy a Star Wars without Luke Skywalker. I would have rather seen him spend more time training Rey than the scenes we did get with him. I feel that would have improved the movie immensely.
On the whole, I'd give it a 6/10. Fine, decent, not terrible, but could have been better.
RA-MEN ROPPAI
This was one of the deleted scenes that Rian Johnson detailed, and said will be available amongst home video extras:
“And then on the island, there’s a massive sequence that we shot with Daisy and Mark, which is kind of an additional sort of trial/test that she goes through, that involves her and Mark, and then a big emotional scene between the two of them. I mean, it’s big stuff, it’s like actual real scenes.”
Throbbing Member
I don't know, man. How far in did you get before you decided to get out? If you sat through the random-ass barrage of disconjointed narrative puzzle pieces that was TFA, it seems like TLJ should have been doable.
Hairy Member
I made it up to Luke's first training bit with Rey. "The Force, I can feel it!". I liked TFA, this was just bad though.
Spoiler: Luke milking the titties, the whole opening with Poe razzing whatshisname, Chewie losing his appetite. Couldn't do it.
I read the wiki plot and I don't feel like I missed that much.
House Always Wins
What was the emergency?
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