Page 5 of 7 FirstFirst ... 3 4 5 6 7 LastLast
Results 121 to 150 of 201

Thread: Westworld (HBO miniseries)

  1. #121
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Texas Panhandle
    Posts
    5,449
    Mentioned
    389 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by ImTheWiseJanitor View Post
    I like that. After the events of season 1 and what we've seen so far just in the first episode, I'd be willing to bet that not only are there multiples of more than one character, but also that some of the major deaths we've seen so far are actually quite inconsequential (how do we even know that the Ford at the end of the S1 finale was even the real Ford anymore??). Nevermind that we're already back on our same time-jump game as before, but this time around will probably be more screwy.

    Absolutely adore this show. What a fucking reboot from what the original movie was.
    Amen.
    I have a feeling that the big secret that Delos wanted was Spoiler: how to put human consciousness into the hosts. i think that's probably why he killed himself. i think he really died, as Bernard is shown his body all rotting with maggots and such, but i think he put his consciousness into like the collective consciousness of the hosts, to where he can go from one to another as he pleases.

    i, too, adore this show. it's like a puzzle and i think that the puzzle from last season was a sort of meta representation of that.
    it invites the sort of theorizing that Twin Peaks does, but with Twin Peaks, i don't think there ARE many sure answers. with this one, we're supposed to figure it all out.
    i also don't know that a show like this could have worked before the internet. it seems this thing needs everyone to get together and figure it all out to be fully understood.

    i also have a feeling that this whole story is planned and will get better and better as it goes on, unlike some shows where it's like "ok fellas, what are we going to do for THIS season?"
    Last edited by elevenism; 04-29-2018 at 08:30 AM.

  2. #122
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    2,020
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    "Fuck you, Robert."

    God damn, this show. The plot THICKENS.

  3. #123
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Right here
    Posts
    1,761
    Mentioned
    117 Post(s)
    What have you done, William?

    Also: Spoiler: I thought the hosts had and explosive charge in their backs that prevented them from getting out of the park? Wasn't it part of Maeve's story line in season one? Unless something happened in the past where a host did escape the park and the modification was made to prevent it from happening again? So many questions.

    I'm so in love with Jimmi Simpson right now. He is killing it as young William.

  4. #124
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    England
    Posts
    1,042
    Mentioned
    19 Post(s)
    Yeah, same.

    (Season 1 spoiler, I think some forum readers are still discovering the show)
    Spoiler: It's interesting how much more overtly he's channeling Ed Harris' performance this time around. He'd apparently figured out his character in season 1, so it's a deliberate decision to bring them closer. I think it's an indication that it's his relationship with Dolores that makes him cold.

    I do wonder what will happen when they meet again. Their love, and split, were due to her programmed storyline, but it's being heavily telegraphed (particularly by Maeve) that even a self-aware android still falls under considerable sway to their prior programming and storylines. That might be enough to save his life.

  5. #125
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Long Island
    Posts
    1,396
    Mentioned
    18 Post(s)
    What elevenism said .

    This is the only show that made me go back and watch the first season over again after a day. When everything came together at the end of season one, it was literally mind-blowing for me. The impact this show has had on me is a pretty heavy one, and seeing all of these characters slowly fleshed out is a treat to watch.

    Spoiler: The Last Supper scene was pretty nifty with its symbolism with resurrection and all bringing the major and the Lieutenant back to life. Also, there is speculation that Delos could be Peter Abernathy, hence why Peter glitched when he saw the picture of Logan's sister?

  6. #126
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    2,020
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Call me crazy, but I feel like it will be much better for me to wait and rewatch season 1 after season 2 ends.

    Mainly because I feel like some of the timelines and events we're gonna see in the coming season might give season 1 a completely new context.

  7. #127
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Monterey Bay, Ca
    Posts
    1,998
    Mentioned
    42 Post(s)
    Am I the only one who thinks the show is playing too straight now? This and Legion both seem to have lost a few layers of complexity in trade for a series of long winded dramatic dialogues. Disappointing...

  8. #128
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Texas Panhandle
    Posts
    5,449
    Mentioned
    389 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Self.Destructive.Pattern View Post



    Spoiler: The Last Supper scene was pretty nifty with its symbolism with resurrection and all bringing the major and the Lieutenant back to life. Also, there is speculation that Delos could be Peter Abernathy, hence why Peter glitched when he saw the picture of Logan's sister?
    Spoiler: ha, I'M glitching out theorizing that everyone is everyone else. Is Delores Ford? Is Maeve Bernard's son? Is the Man In Black version of William old man Delos? Is Charlotte Maeve's daughter? Is Deckard a replicant? I know some of these are a stretch but they keep crossing my mind, and with the reveals we had in season 1, I'd be surprised if there wasn't SOME sort of mindfuckery in this vein going on

    The Mrs doesn't appreciate my theories; she says "I don't know! I don't know! Just be quiet and watch!"

    Edit: @Wretchedest , did you feel that way about the first episode too, or just the second?
    I felt like the second was definitely slower, but I expect the exposition to pay off.
    Last edited by elevenism; 05-01-2018 at 05:52 AM.

  9. #129
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Monterey Bay, Ca
    Posts
    1,998
    Mentioned
    42 Post(s)
    I liked the first episode a lot more but all of the catch phrasing, has been pretty annoying too.

  10. #130
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    2,020
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Wretchedest View Post
    I liked the first episode a lot more but all of the catch phrasing, has been pretty annoying too.
    It's a little heavy-handed, for sure. To be fair, a lot of the catch-phrasing is clearly intentional. We just haven't seen the payoff/purpose for it all yet. I'd personally rather have it cut back a little and notice the few instances of repetition on my own as the viewer ("Wait a minute, isn't that the thing that one person said?? WHOA!"). But again, I'm hoping that they know what they're doing and the show starts to really stretch its legs.

    Second episode wasn't quite as good as the first overall, save for a couple standout moments, but episode 3 definitely seems to ramp things up. Fingers crossed!

  11. #131
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Vancouver BC
    Posts
    6,127
    Mentioned
    67 Post(s)

  12. #132
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    1,096
    Mentioned
    12 Post(s)
    This show is more interesting than it is good. But even the parts of it that are of interest are pretty vague. Central ideas are only somewhat explored. It reminds me of Interstellar in that respect.

    Here's a pretty good video summing up a lot of what I and others feel.


  13. #133
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    4,818
    Mentioned
    24 Post(s)
    I love the scene in the first episode of this season where Ed Harris meets "young Robert" as it is essentially a mash-up of these two scenes




  14. #134
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    2,020
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Starting episode 3 now!

    I have to say, too - when they announced season 3, I was stoked, but when they added "and at least 6 more timelines" ...ehhhh...Maybe it will be awesome and I'm getting suspicious over nothing. It just feels like someone said "oh shit, awesome, so let's just double down on the timeline jumping thing every season." I'd rather be surprised and them keep it manageable than have them just be right out the gate and over the top with it. What, is season 4 gonna have 10 timelines? Season 5, 15? :/ Slow it down, it's okay to focus on other ways to make your show interesting.

    Obligatory statement swooning about Tessa Thompson. <3

  15. #135
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Texas Panhandle
    Posts
    5,449
    Mentioned
    389 Post(s)
    One of my favorite and most read books is East of Eden, by John Steinbeck.
    In that book, there are scenes in which a character is trying to translate a line from the book of Genesis where God is talking to Cain. Various Bibles translate it different ways: God is telling Cain "Thou SHALT rule over sin," which is basically a promise. The second translation is "DO thou rule over sin," which is God ORDERING Cain to rule over sin. But they figure out that the correct translation of the word, "timshel," is "thou MAYEST."
    This translation thing seems sort of inconsequential at first, but becomes, imho, the main theme and message of this sprawling masterpiece.

    Here is a passage from East of Eden:
    "...this was the gold from our mining: 'Thou mayest.' The American Standard translation orders men to triumph over sin (and you can call sin ignorance). The King James translation makes a promise in 'Thou shalt,' meaning that men will surely triumph over sin. But the Hebrew word timshel—'Thou mayest'—that gives a choice. For if 'Thou mayest'—it is also true that 'Thou mayest not.' That makes a man great and that gives him stature with the gods, for in his weakness and his filth and his murder of his brother he has still the great choice. He can choose his course and fight it through and win."


    In episode three of the new season, Spoiler: Delores says something like "all my life, i've been hearing a voice telling me you WILL. but now i've found my own voice, and it says 'you MAY." I don't think this is a coincidence and i believe that it sets Delores up for some sort of redemption arc. She is no longer predestined or forced (as in programmed) to be good or evil or any way at all. She now has the choice to be good or evil.
    I have a feeling this is connected with William's talk about judgement. Also, if this "valley beyond" is "3 days west" of the main park, then Westorld is "East of Eden. (perhaps)"


    East of Eden was my favorite book of all time up until i read infinite jest and i know it pretty well. I've spent (wasted? :P ) a LOT of time dissecting the themes and meaning underlying its epic story.
    I'm 99% sure that this is meant to parallel East of Eden (and isn't just a coincidence) and am expecting to see more of this sort of thing.
    Last edited by elevenism; 05-09-2018 at 05:36 PM.

  16. #136
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Monterey Bay, Ca
    Posts
    1,998
    Mentioned
    42 Post(s)
    Dolores' arc and motivation don't make any sense at all any more. Is she a liberator of the robots or is she willing to kill dozens of them to have her way? When did she get like that? It's like last season was a nice slow burn from 0 to 60 but this seasons she's at 120. It's dumb. This show is in real danger of becoming empty and shallow and cliche.

  17. #137
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    England
    Posts
    1,042
    Mentioned
    19 Post(s)
    Completely disagree. A really cool element of the show is that even though they're self aware, hosts are still dominated by their memories and their programmed personalities. Just like we are - we can be our own worst enemies, governed by instinct and impulses despite being able to know better.

    So Maeve is determined to rescue a daughter who in reality is just a small android programmed to act a certain way. And Dolores hates the Confederados based on her past experiences with them and their current programming, when she should really know better. As for why she's such a stone killer, it's because part of her personality is the park's big villain, Wyatt. She's dithering between the two parts of herself, similarly to how Peter Abernathy is cycling between his past selves. Why *all* the hosts don't seem to be doing that, I'm not sure.

    But no, I've absolutely loved this season so far, I think it's the best thing on TV right now. Particularly liked ep 2 with its exploration of Delos' backstory, Jimmi Simpson is killing it right now.

  18. #138
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Texas Panhandle
    Posts
    5,449
    Mentioned
    389 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Vertigo View Post
    Completely disagree. A really cool element of the show is that even though they're self aware, hosts are still dominated by their memories and their programmed personalities. Just like we are - we can be our own worst enemies, governed by instinct and impulses despite being able to know better.
    Absolutely.
    This thing isn't about robots. it's about what it means to be human.

  19. #139
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Texas Panhandle
    Posts
    5,449
    Mentioned
    389 Post(s)
    hot damn.
    now i'm proud of myself with my East of Eden thing. And i'm guessing that there are more references than the one i caught if the showrunners brought it up.

    this is from an article on cnet.com.

    "Ready to book it? According to the showrunners' AMA, among the literary references in season 2 are nods to John Steinbeck's 1952 novel East of Eden"

  20. #140
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    England
    Posts
    1,042
    Mentioned
    19 Post(s)
    Re. episode 4 (Riddle of the Sphinx)...

    Spoiler: So it looks like every known member of the original Delos family died because they couldn't accept their reality. Overdose for Logan, suicide for... er... Mrs In Black, and the brain literally rejecting reality and shutting down for James' synthetic afterlife ploy.

    Just leaves Emily and William I guess. Interesting to note that now we're starting to see some actual reality in the park, with the hosts making their own decisions and actions having consequences, we're also starting to see some hint of a conscience from William. I wonder if that 30-year spell Westworld cast over his personality is starting to break.
    Last edited by Vertigo; 05-14-2018 at 09:24 PM.

  21. #141
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Monterey Bay, Ca
    Posts
    1,998
    Mentioned
    42 Post(s)
    This was one of the best episodes from the show. Partly because they spent the time really digging into just one character, and tossed in a lot of novel ideas.

    It was nice to be away from Dolores. . Maybe season 2 has struggled for me because I like watching her so much less now that she's been stuffed into a daenarys clone... The man in Black is quite a bit more interesting this time around. Also very glad they brought Elsie back. I always thought she deserves more screen time.

  22. #142
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Texas Panhandle
    Posts
    5,449
    Mentioned
    389 Post(s)
    Re: The Man In Black

    Spoiler: i fucking LOVED the part where he killed all those people to save Lawrence. it was insanely cathartic. i was hooting and hollering at the tv :P

  23. #143
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Monterey Bay, Ca
    Posts
    1,998
    Mentioned
    42 Post(s)
    I do think he needed a lot more to earn that moment though. Especially given everything else going on in the episode... It felt like he reached the end of an arc that is only just getting started

  24. #144
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Bayonne Leave It Alone
    Posts
    2,524
    Mentioned
    33 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Wretchedest View Post
    It was nice to be away from Dolores.
    Thank you for typing this. Once I read it, I realized that I agree and that is why I haven't totally loved this season, yet really enjoyed episode 4. I hope they put less of a focus on her, although that seems doubtful till at least next season. She is the only unpleasant thing about the show. Well that, and the unbelievably inept staff & security working at the park.

  25. #145
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Ontari-ari-ario
    Posts
    3,362
    Mentioned
    139 Post(s)
    Samurai World was fucking hype!!

  26. #146
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Monterey Bay, Ca
    Posts
    1,998
    Mentioned
    42 Post(s)
    I really didn't think so... This was one of the worst episodes for me. It felt so plodding and distracted, it had very, very little to say. Briefly I had hoped that it was exploring the ties between samurai movies and western movies, but it touched on this only momentarily.

    Maeve and Dolores' arcs are building a very linear fashion and it's boring. Their powers and motivations are so seemingly random that it's hard to care about either of them any more. It no longer feels like this show has any real direction, sort of like old tv was written on the fly with no ending intended, or maybe like game of thrones, where they sometimes trap characters in useless subplots until it's time to use them again.

  27. #147
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Texas Panhandle
    Posts
    5,449
    Mentioned
    389 Post(s)
    I'm with @botley ; the mrs agrees with @Wretchedest .
    I will allow that you MIGHT be right about "trapping characters in useless subplots," but I still got a kick out of the whole thing in and of itself.

    Also, there's still time for cool twists and developments and such.

  28. #148
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Ontari-ari-ario
    Posts
    3,362
    Mentioned
    139 Post(s)
    The lexicon of this show has entered my everyday conversation. "Doesn't look like anything to me".

  29. #149
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Long Island
    Posts
    1,396
    Mentioned
    18 Post(s)
    The entire Samurai segment was fantastic between the last few episodes, and Maeve turning into one of my favorite characters. Ending of last night's episode had me smiling for sure.

  30. #150
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Ontari-ari-ario
    Posts
    3,362
    Mentioned
    139 Post(s)
    I feel they're really doing a good job with the different subplots, there are lots of competing character motivations going on; you can also read it as a subtly political fable about our world (there's plenty of very intelligent commentary out there on this, if you care to go looking for it). The contrast between Delores and Maeve's factions is telling: two vaguely recognizable sorts of Hosts, and we get to see how their character code is reacting in vastly different ways when a real-life scenario with actual enormous consequences plays out for them.

    I've just caught up with episode 6 today and Spoiler: I'm pretty certain the Maeve & Co. subplot's "we're going via the back ways, underground, sneaking out towards freedom, and oh by the way I can telepathically link to other Hosts" track will eventually lead to the Ghost Nation army joining up with them in the final fight for control of the Delos territories, over which all the different parks are built. Remember, the Ghost Nation have some idea of what Delos' army is going to look like, based on memory/dream/spirit connection to the image of their haz-mat uniforms. We ended this latest episode with Maev in a skirmish with them, but the humans in her party are about to peace out by chopper or whatever, and it'll just be Hosts vs. humans in the final fight.

    Also, while I'm enumerating good things about the plotting of this season so far: the payoff with the little boy was a good way to handle Ford's death and close the 'maze' throughline from season one. Though, of course, we just got a glimpse of what must be a 'cradle' version of Ford's consciousness still hanging around inside the park mainframe. And, from Bernard's point of view, we are also getting to see a bit of how Ford's motivations are playing out (another possible political analogue) and now we know there's also a version of Bernard that Delores is training as a ringer, to potentially throw the humans off. Plus, the whole episode with Host versions of James Delos repeating the same interaction with William and repeatedly going insane was absolutely brilliant.
    Last edited by botley; 05-29-2018 at 08:46 AM.

Posting Permissions