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Thread: The Feminist Thread

  1. #31
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    A while back there was a conversation in other thread about Affirmative Consent and the "Yes means Yes" bill that passed in California and I had promised to give my take on it since I have done a lot of activism on this issue and continue to do so, but I totally forgot and never did!

    Anyways just about every critique I have read or heard about this approach is either on the lower end of the spectrum complete rape culture trash, and on the more humane intelligent side just simply misunderstand how things are usually handled now and what has definitively changed when something like this is put into place.

    The primary goal of this approach is to shift focus primarily to the alleged crime itself, which should seem like a no brainer but when it comes to rape and sexual assault this usually just isn't so when it comes to law enforcement and especially judicial committees on college campuses. Part of of the reason that batshit points of question like what the victim was wearing, why they would "put themselves in danger", whether they gave the wrong idea or not etc. are so prevalent is because the actual alleged crime aka engaging with sexual acts without receiving definitive consent is not the focus as it should be. The language in the affirmative consent bill was thankfully created by people who are very knowledgable about this issue and what is at stake. Furthermore, they were especially careful to avoid the bullshit that some people think the law requires like constant verbal confirmation and what not.

    For example the word affirmative was chosen because the most commonly understood definition of the word is that affirmations are verbal but that is not the only definition of the word. There are many ways to show affirmation. Within the context of the bill, unlike within most rape and assault investigations, those in charge are now required to focus (or at least ask, which is sadly a huge step) on why the alleged attacker thought they had consent. Again it seems like a no brainer but I think it if truly was this approach would not even be controversial.

    Does it not make complete and utter sense that when someone is accused specifically of doing something without the accusers consent that the accused should have to answer to what consent they received or why they thought they received it? Think of it this way. If I was accused of trespassing on someone's property and it was conceded that I was on the property but I claimed I had an invitation, should the focus not be what form that invitation took and why I thought it was valid? I hate to compare these kinds of crimes to property crimes but sadly I am sort of forced into that position when it comes to defending this.

    Of course it does not get rid of the inherent problem of that people could still simply lie, or say a sexual encounter never even took place, but these are the problems that should exist within any even semi just system. I simply cannot take people who are more concerned with the after math of affirmative consent rather than what is the norm presently very seriously. Like really? This rhetoric causes outrage over the horror of reality of what already takes place when all it does is force the issue of consent to be the center of an investigation specifically about the violation of consent? No longer can the accused use the excuse that they are "not a mind reader" or that they were unsure whether the person was down. Rather it would act as almost as a confession if these things were expressed. As it should be. There should be nothing controversial about the law stating more specifically that you are required to know the person you are having sex with wants to have sex with you.

    I hope this was helpful and I can go way more in depth about this if anyone has any questions or still is concerned about the rhetoric and function within these kinds of bills.

    Over all it doesn't fix much b/c schools can still decide to not honor their own policies as they do generally with sexual assault cases, but it was a very important step b/c it inches society closer to a necessary paradigm shift long overdue and it was the state's way of declaring that they have noticed there are vulnerable populations experiencing normalized violence on college campuses and that they care and want it to change.
    Last edited by littlemonkey613; 08-11-2015 at 09:36 PM.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by eversonpoe View Post
    i wish it worked like on firefly, where there are Companions, who are essentially on the highest tier of society, who get to carefully select their clients, and offer an experience that is physical, emotional, and spiritual. and i'm sure there are some sex workers who operate that way, but it's certainly not the majority of them, from what i understand.

    also, i realize it's unlikely that we'll reach a point like that across the board any time soon, but it would be fantastic.
    That's the conflicting thing, though; ultimately, it's just sex. Sex doesn't have to be some kind of spiritual or emotional experience, it doesn't have to be anything more important than a tennis game.

    It's a business transaction, nothing more. Actually, it should be under the same college category as physical therapy and you should be able to get a college degree in the subject ("sexual therapy") so you can get more money and good health insurance.

    If you look at @Mantra 's post, above, he says: "I remember years ago reading through this website for a full service escort agency and there were all these dudes writing their reviews for the different escorts, almost like they were writing an amazon review or something: "She was okay I guess, but I can't say I'd recommend her. She wasn't nearly as enthusiastic as some of the others I've tried and seemed kinda rushed. 2 stars out of 5."

    But if you change that text to this, it's different: "I remember years ago reading through this website for tennis instructors and there were all these dudes writing their reviews for the different tennis instructors, almost like they were writing an amazon review or something: "She was okay I guess, but I can't say I'd recommend her. She wasn't nearly as enthusiastic as some of the others I've tried and seemed kinda rushed. 2 stars out of 5."

    First one, creepy? Second one, okay?

    And the reasons for this, obviously, are many, mostly because of society's (albeit perhaps subconscious) puritanical attitudes about female sex, but also because the internet has made it all a lot more weird and has shone a spotlight onto something and evaluated something that was never "graded" or evaluated, before (which smacks of gender expectations) but also because, for the better part of history, houses of prostitution were owned and operated by females and somewhere along the line that changed and it primarily fell under male control, save for maybe Heidi Fleiss. So the big money goes to the males at the top, and the much smaller money goes to the female (or male) workers at the bottom, which is just more patriarchy. So somehow the capitalist colonialist patriarchy managed to take over even "the oldest profession in the world."
    Last edited by allegro; 08-12-2015 at 12:22 PM.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    feminists like me tend to get grouped by other feminists into this "frigid prude-y can't get laid hates sex" group, which is false and counterproductive. I am totally into sex-positive feminism but I never understood how this fit into that picture.
    Right, well I suspect it's because so much of the conversation around sex work draws upon a sense of morality that's either directly or indirectly informed by traditional/christian values, and so sex-positive feminists are reacting against that. Because some of that stuff actually can be kind of sex-negative and anti-feminist, where sex workers are all viewed as tragic and broken. Like my jehovahs witness grandma thinks it's heartbreaking to read about a woman selling her body when she should be saving it for her husband. She feels deeply sympathetic and (rightfully) upset to hear about the awful conditions that some sex workers have to endure, but ultimately her attitude doesn't really operate outside of a patriarchal value system, and she doesn't entirely see them as real, complex people just like her.

    So I totally understand the desire to move beyond that attitude, to stop painting sex workers as lost victims and instead start viewing them as three dimensional human beings who have agency and dignity and so on. The only sex worker I've ever known is my friend from college who says she loved her job for the years that she did it. She is intimidatingly smart but also has an incredibly warm and gentle personality and enjoys a happy life. I suspect it would be hard for someone like my grandma to reconcile the reality of my friend with the image in her mind of sex workers being these shattered souls. And so that's the stuff I totally agree with when it comes to being pro-sex work, the idea of viewing sex workers in a more positive/human light.

    But just as I don't want to see my friend perpetually viewed as some kind of lost victim, I also hate to imagine her being written about on that escort review site, with a bunch of assholes rating and assessing her like she's a fucking amazon product. Because that kind of bullshit also flattens her out and takes away her humanity, and it just seems so blatantly anti-feminist to me. I don't understand how to, on the one hand, be critical of the way mass media often portrays women, but on the other hand support escort review sites. That just makes zero sense to me. And in grand scheme of things, I don't understand how sex work is any kind of challenge to patriarchy (again, not that I'm fully informed about the opposing side on this issue).

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mantra View Post
    But just as I don't want to see my friend perpetually viewed as some kind of lost victim, I also hate to imagine her being written about on that escort review site, with a bunch of assholes rating and assessing her like she's a fucking amazon product. Because that kind of bullshit also flattens her out and takes away her humanity, and it just seems so blatantly anti-feminist to me. I don't understand how to, on the one hand, be critical of the way mass media often portrays women, but on the other hand support escort review sites. That just makes zero sense to me. And in grand scheme of things, I don't understand how sex work is any kind of challenge to patriarchy (again, not that I'm fully informed about the opposing side on this issue).
    And I totally understand what you are saying but I say to myself sometimes, would I feel the same way if it was a dude? There was this guy on the Bachelorette who was a male dancer and it was rumored online that he was also a het male escort, but do we view him as a lost soul who is being violated, or just a dude making a living who can't find a better job? Yeah, I guess we do often view those guys as pretty dumb, actually, like "guess he couldn't make it into college." We view the females with their precious flower being violated but the males as being dumb oafs who couldn't even get a job at the Mobile station. It's still all gender bias.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mantra View Post
    with a bunch of assholes rating and assessing her like she's a fucking amazon product
    But see now you are protecting her from the lions ...

    Like "Quality Control Testers" at the Bunny Ranch? LOL.
    Last edited by allegro; 08-12-2015 at 03:14 PM.

  5. #35
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    You guys have it mixed up I think in regards to escorts and prostitutes being rated and treated like they are a product. It's the SERVICE they provide that is the product, not them. Whether that be the sex or whatever escorts do, that is the service being rated. (This applies backwards to the service industry as well, though 100% agree you should never be rude to or treat your server like you own them. That double backwards to prostitutes as well!)

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfkiller View Post
    You guys have it mixed up I think in regards to escorts and prostitutes being rated and treated like they are a product. It's the SERVICE they provide that is the product, not them. Whether that be the sex or whatever escorts do, that is the service being rated.
    Right, I know what you're saying, I was actually thinking about this even as I was typing up that post, but I don't know.... I think it's kind of tough to make such a hard distinction between the actual person and the service they offer. It certainly doesn't seem like people draw those distinctions when they talk about other service workers. The person's personality is always a crucial part of the service. People are like "that server was so funny and nice!" or "wow, our server sure had a bitchy personality." No one ever follows that up with "Of course, I'm only referring to the SERVICE they provided! I obviously have no opinion on them as a person AT ALL." The service and the person are a package, and I think this applies to sex work just as much if not more, given the nature of the work. I don't think most guys are gonna leave and be like "Hmmm, excellent service" as if they're happy about getting a prompt pizza delivery. They're thinking/writing about their experience with that person. So I don't know.

  7. #37
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    The woman I spoke about earlier is doing an AMA right now... Might be interesting.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/commen...ly_in_nevadas/

  8. #38
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    So feminism ultimately comes down to gender equality, right? I'm all for that.

    When i went to have my MRI done the other day, the radiologist or nuclear physicist or whatever you have to be to run that machine, was gorgeous.
    I mean like, made me stutter, i wouldn't want to date her because she was TOO pretty and men would constantly hassle her, insanely utterly gorgeous.

    And i ALMOST told her. But i thought long and hard about it and it's an interesting question. Does she hear it all day? Would she feel threatened by it? Creeped out?

    It occurred to me that telling a girl that she's beautiful means that certain things have been crossing my mind, possibly involuntarily. But it's a MATING urge, isn't it? It's instinct.

    SO. Is it EVER ok to tell a girl that you don't know that you think she is pretty? It may sound crazy, but i think that the answer is no, unless you are trying to GET to know her because you would like to take her out.

  9. #39
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    Don't be a fuckboy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by elevenism View Post
    SO. Is it EVER ok to tell a girl that you don't know that you think she is pretty? It may sound crazy, but i think that the answer is no, unless you are trying to GET to know her because you would like to take her out.
    We had a discussion about this in the old thread.

    In the olden days, guys told me this in passing, but it didn't mean anything and it was okay, this was before the internet with information overload where people tell people everything and too much.

    I dunno if a medical setting is the proper venue, though. Very wrong venue.
    Last edited by allegro; 08-13-2015 at 10:15 AM.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarah K View Post
    The woman I spoke about earlier is doing an AMA right now... Might be interesting.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/commen...ly_in_nevadas/
    That was interesting!

  12. #42
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    Thanks @allegro.
    @orestes , what exactly is a "fuckboy?" lolol

    or maybe @Miss Baphomette or @eversonpoe or @allegro can answer me, since you guys "liked" it.

    i think the precise reason i asked the question is that i wanted you ladies, in your infinite wisdom, to help me AVOID being a fuckboy.

    that's if it just means what it sounds like and isn't some inside joke you girls have cooked up earlier in the thread.
    Last edited by elevenism; 08-13-2015 at 01:37 AM.

  13. #43
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    @elevenism , go look at http://straightwhiteboystexting.tumblr.com/

    That's fuckboy behavior. Basically guys who pay women "romantic" or sexual attention without caring what the other person thinks.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by elevenism View Post
    i think the precise reason i asked the question is that i wanted you ladies, in your infinite wisdom, to help me AVOID being a fuckboy.
    Point is: WHY would you say it?

    What's the purpose?

    (Rhetorical question)

    In the last 30 years, society (particularly American society) has grown accustomed to spewing pretty much anything we think, online and in person. Walk through the mall with a baby sometime and you'll see what I mean; get bombarded by 800 people spewing germs onto the baby, "look at that baby," "what a cute baby," "is it a boy or a girl?," etc. My niece is half-black and when she was a baby, we'd actually get white people guessing her ethnic origin, "is she MEDITERRANEAN?" Walk around with a visibly pregnant woman, see people wanting to touch her belly, give her unwanted advice, etc.

    So you have an attractive woman at work and you, the patient, her customer at her job, thinks she is "pretty" which has absolutely zero to do with her job, so do you tell her this for no gain other than you feel you have to tell her, and why? For you? Because you think she needs to know? For her job? For her self-esteem? Maybe she's wandering through life unaware of her beauty? And it might help her career?

    50 years ago, this comment was just a compliment; add years of sexual harassment, online harassment, social media harassment, cat-calling, not to mention that it also doubles as a pick-up line, and it's no longer just a compliment.

    The only people who go ahead and tell her this are children and old people, because they don't understand boundaries.
    Last edited by allegro; 08-13-2015 at 10:26 AM.

  15. #45
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    So you have an attractive woman at work and you, the patient, her customer at her job, thinks she is "pretty" which has absolutely zero to do with her job, so do you tell her this for no gain other than you feel you have to tell her, and why? For you? Because you think she needs to know? For her job? For her self-esteem? Maybe she's wandering through life unaware of her beauty? And it might help her career?
    Exactly, ask yourself first before just doing what you want.

    I'll never understand why people can't offer any consideration of what a person may feel about what you will say/do to them. Instead, it's mostly about self: "I just wanted to.." "I thought it would be best if.." "Seemed like the right thing for me to.." It's usually blamed on the recipient's sensitivity where in fact it's the deliverer's LACK of sensitivity that creates the issues. Are we all born this selfish and need to learn to shrug it off with maturity? I just don't get it. Maybe I'm just old and crotchety.

  16. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by sentient02970 View Post

    I'll never understand why people can't offer any consideration of what a person may feel about what you will say/do to them.
    I wholeheartedly agree with @allegro , but what you feel and what other people feel are vastly different.
    Some guys will take a compliment as flirting, some will take it at face value. Some will take obvious flirting as it is, some will just think you're being nice (and a bit confusing). Some people care about their appearance and appreciate the recognition, some others just want to feel awesome for themselves and couldn't give a fuck what you think one way or the other.

    What Allegro wrote is a good rule of thumb, and I agree with what you said when it comes to extreme cases ie catcalling. And @elevenism 's situation is just so fucking potentially awkward it hurts. But I think you should never assume what other people think, appreciate, or strongly react to. Obviously, with that said, it means that the best route of action is to be tactful and politely cautious.

    Just, try to be a human being. See how the people react to simple conversation pieces, do they even want to engage or are the politely monosyllabic ?

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    I pretty much have to deal with fuckboys on a daily basis at work and no, I don't work at Hooters. I just have to politely deal with idiots who think by me saying hello or smiling at them is an invitation into my personal life. (I work in retail management where being nice to the customer is necessary.) It wasn't always the case; I mean, I don't recall guys asking for my number when I was fifty pounds heavier but that's another issue.

    It's even worse when I have to deal with guys asking about my tattoos. I'm working on a half sleeve and even though I try to keep them covered as much as possible, they're very colorful and draw attention to customers. Just yesterday, an older guy decided to grab my arm to take a peak at my tattoos. He didn't ask to see them; he just decided it was his right to invade my personal space. I politely but firmly told him not to touch me and why you should always ask first to see someone's tattoos. This sounds like common fucking sense but you'd be surprised how much this goes out the window when it comes to tattoos. People seem to think that because tattoos are visible then they are for public consumption. I'm a human not some public works project. As if that incident wasn't bad enough, another guy later in the day started asking me questions about my tattoo-the same arm piece as before-that were none of his fucking business, like how much it costs and whether or not it hurt. (Tiny needles injected permanent ink below the surface of my skin, of course it fucking hurt.) After playing like I didn't hear the question or just plain avoiding answering his questions, he told me that curiosity got the best of him and he just *had* to see the tattoo for himself. He did ask but given the circumstances I had to tell him no.

  18. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarah K View Post
    The woman I spoke about earlier is doing an AMA right now... Might be interesting.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/commen...ly_in_nevadas/
    "I'm not interested in dating anyone who wouldn't call themselves a feminist."

    "
    Sex work exclusionary Feminists. They tell me that I'm a piece of meat to be bought and sold, I'm perpetuating violence against children and encouraging sex trafficking. No one has ever said such horrible things to me as the people who think sex workers don't have human rights. Tumblr is ablaze with SWERFS freaking out over Amnesty International's choice to support decrim of sex work. If they actually listened to sex workers, they'd get a better understanding of what we need, but they're caught up on scare tactics and faulty reports, misleading statistics."

    Interesting AMA overall; she's quite funny! Did not get the wizard joke, but saved herself with the DBZ reference.

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    Quote Originally Posted by orestes View Post
    I pretty much have to deal with fuckboys on a daily basis at work and no, I don't work at Hooters. I just have to politely deal with idiots who think by me saying hello or smiling at them is an invitation into my personal life. (I work in retail management where being nice to the customer is necessary.) It wasn't always the case; I mean, I don't recall guys asking for my number when I was fifty pounds heavier but that's another issue.
    This is actually very interesting. I remember a discussion which was about men and what things would be helpful for us if they were different, mainly because of gender roles, and one of the highest rated response was that - and I think it came from a woman - men should receive more casual compliments. Getting selfless compliments feels good, but it's socially much more acceptable to give it to girls, than boys, or at least among the same genders, but boys are hardly like "OMG DUDE, NICE HAIR", we rather go with "well, you don't look like shit now, I guess!", hah.

    A lot depends on the situation and the delivery, but I wouldn't label everyone a fuckboy or anything for giving a genuine compliment to some girl without expecting or even wanting to get something out of it. Just don't be a fucking creep about it.
    - let's say you are about to leave the restaurant, and after you paid up your waitress, you tell her how pretty her face or hair is, or she has a really nice pair of shoes, or whatever, and you leave. You don't wait around for telephone numbers, or expecting a conversation, you just leave. I don't think it would leave her devastated and/or annoyed, if anything, it would or at least could make her day.
    - now, if you've just arrived to the restaurant and the same wiatress is about to get your order, and you start bombing her with compliments, while staring into her soul through her eyes, and not saying anything else, or even being self-conscious during it... yeah, that's bad.

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    No, these are fuckboys. I can tell when someone is being genuine about giving a compliment, which I nicely receive by the way, and a guy simply trying to place himself in my personal space for my number. Fuckboys don't take no for an answer, even if you tell them you're in a relationship and don't want to "be friends" with a complete stranger who just walked up to you and demanded you give them your number.

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    I don't think it's ever appropriate when someone is at work.

    The problem is this... Nearly every single time a man compliments a woman, if we respond, it is viewed as an invitation to take it further. I can think of two times in my life where a man complimented me, I responded, and then that was it. They didn't get pushy or take it as an invitation to get weird. Two times.

    Edit - I'm fat as shit, and often times, people equate that with low self esteem, easy, etc. So maybe with more conventionally attractive women, it isn't as aggressive? I dunno. Or maybe they have it even worse.
    Last edited by Sarah K; 08-13-2015 at 12:04 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Volband View Post
    "Interesting AMA overall; she's quite funny! Did not get the wizard joke, but saved herself with the DBZ reference.
    She linked her Tumblr.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Volband View Post
    A lot depends on the situation and the delivery, but I wouldn't label everyone a fuckboy or anything for giving a genuine compliment to some girl without expecting or even wanting to get something out of it. Just don't be a fucking creep about it.
    This, specifically, is what defines fuckboys. That expectation/making it about them. That and unwanted/unsolicited sexual advances without taking the receiver into consideration.

    The key thing I think when complimenting someone is just to think about how it make them feel. Like, are they working? Will they have to respond? Is the compliment too personal for a stranger? Maybe they're alone at night.

    A respectful compliment that doesn't come with expectations or pressure and is a compliment for compliment's sake is nice.

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    now @orestes , as far as the tattoo thing goes, surely you knew that people would ask you about them when you got them.

    Gawking at them is one thing (and honestly, MOST people don't know not to do that.)

    Of course, GRABBING at you is utterly ridiculous behavior and you should have slapped the motherfucker.

    But being asked about them is par for the course.

    I have 1" plugs in my ears and 2 gauge plugs in my conches and i have had them for many years.

    If i go out in public here, at least 1 person asks me about them.

    And when i lived in dallas, it was more like TEN. Ten a day. in fact, 99 percent of the conversations with strangers that i had on the bus/train were started by my piercings, and i had at least one conversation every day. If i didn't wanna talk to people, i pulled my hood over my head.

    and btw, i am the opposite of a fuckboy thanks for clearing that up.

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    I didn't get my tattoos for someone else's approval. I don't mind talking about them if 1) I have the time and 2)they seem genuinely interested. But to have mostly guys ask me the same five questions on an almost daily basis can be draining.

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    Quote Originally Posted by orestes View Post
    I didn't get my tattoos for someone else's approval. I don't mind talking about them if 1) I have the time and 2)they seem genuinely interested. But to have mostly guys ask me the same five questions on an almost daily basis can be draining.
    i feel you.
    the thing with my plugs that is INSANELY draining is "did that hurt." or even worse, DOES that hurt. i don't even understand that one. like, does it hurt now?

    it obviously fucking hurt. and it obviously no longer hurts.

    i have been wearing big fat barbells in my conches and have taken to pushing up on them, so where before they just saw a ball, now they see how massive it is and freak out. and say "what? this?"

    but a lot of times i will talk to people. and for me it's actually cool. i LOVE meeting all kinds of people of various ethnic and socioeconomic backgrounds, and man, there was no better place to do that than on the train in dallas. i LOVE talking to people. and my piercings actually facilitated that.

    My brother is covered in tattoos and he taught me not to look at someone's ink without asking.

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    Yes, but this is the feminist thread, so we're talking about @orestes ' experience with tattoos while at work, with males coming up to her while she's at work and bugging her at work and actually touching her and invading her personal space, wasting her time while she's on the company clock, etc.

    And all of this is disrespectful to her in a number of ways, and all of it pretty much says "I'm not taking the fact that you are working right now very seriously, because I am not respecting you."

    That being said, G and I were at a restaurant / bar last Saturday night and we had a cute female waitperson who was obviously very very nervous and she finally admitted, when I tried to help her be a little less nervous, that it was only her third day on the job, and I told her she was doing a great job. It was busy, and there was a jazz trio in front of us, and we ended up joining tables with a couple next to us who were a LOT of fun, and I asked our waitperson about her really cute collar of tattoos, just to kind of break the ice a little, and that worked to some extent, and she told us about them, the older guy next to us asked what her parents thought and she told us about that, so in HER line of work, as a cocktail / food server, it worked. We were giving her funny advice like when she brought over a shaker of martinis she was just going to pour them ('the bartender already shook this, so ...") and we said, "nooooo, you gotta shake the shaker, too, like Tom Cruise in 'Cocktail', it'll get you more tips!" and the bartender was laughing and giving her Thumbs-up and stuff. So it all depends on the venue, etc., but dudes in retail, noooooooooo.

    We each left that gal a HUUUUUUUUUGE tip, btw.
    Last edited by allegro; 08-13-2015 at 02:27 PM.

  28. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    Yes, but this is the feminist thread, so we're talking about @orestes ' experience with tattoos while at work, with males coming up to her while she's at work and bugging her at work and actually touching her and invading her personal space, wasting her time while she's on the company clock, etc.
    Not having any tattoos myself and being a women, not a fuck boy, @orestes experience got me thinking: one of my yoga teachers has a sleeve that's a work in progress so every time I see her there is a bit more color and it's a really pretty integrated design of lilies and such. Am I being to forward complimenting it/her? I don't want to fuck her - but she is wearing a tiny tank top, she's not hiding it.


    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    "nooooo, you gotta shake the shaker, too, like Tom Cruise in 'Cocktail', it'll get you more tips!" and the bartender was laughing and giving her Thumbs-up and stuff. So it all depends on the venue, etc., but dudes in retail, noooooooooo.

    We each left that gal a HUUUUUUUUUGE tip, btw.
    Like she wasn't even a twinkle in her parents' eyes when THAT craptastic movie came out. :P

  29. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dra508 View Post
    Not having any tattoos myself and being a women, not a fuck boy, @orestes experience got me thinking: one of my yoga teachers has a sleeve that's a work in progress so every time I see her there is a bit more color and it's a really pretty integrated design of lilies and such. Am I being to forward complimenting it/her? I don't want to fuck her - but she is wearing a tiny tank top, she's not hiding it.
    i find that the best way to compliment someone in a way that they know it's simply a compliment and nothing else is to do it when leaving. so at the end of class, as you're walking out, say, "by the way, i love your sleeve!" and then leave. that way there's no question about whether or not you expect a response, or that you're trying to "get" anywhere; you're simply paying a polite compliment. same goes for ANYONE.

    if i see someone wearing a cute dress walking toward me on the sidewalk, i'll say, calmly, "i like your dress!" with a nice smile, and just keep going. i like making people feel good, but i don't like making them uncomfortable, so i do my best with things like that, and i've found it to be a good method. sometimes it makes someone's day, and i can see their face light up. other times, they kind of ignore it, and that is ABSOLUTELY FINE because it's up to THEM how to respond, not me. that's how to not be a fuckboy.

  30. #60
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    Holy shit, THIS. Giving compliments in a situation where you've REMOVED the possibility for expectations are the best. And they feel great to give because you know there won't be like any weirdness.

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