Down, but not out.
I'm sure there's a plethora of valid reasons to not have children and/or get married. If you don't mind sharing, what are your reasons for being one, the other, or both for that matter? If anything, I completely commend those that avoid getting married and/or having children for all the wrong reasons. They're both extremely moral/ethical decisions.
Last edited by Halo Infinity; 12-06-2011 at 09:54 PM.
Active Member
I don't believe in marriage. Which is to say, I don't mind what other people do, and I'm not judging anyone who chooses to get married at all, but to me it's an arbitrary thing. You can be just as in love, just as dedicated and have a relationship on the same level without going through a special ceremony or getting a piece of paper.
Like I said, though, it all depends on the people involved. For some people, it really does make some sort of a difference for them, and that's great. For others (myself included), they don't feel a need to do that to feel like their relationship is complete. I know it sounds like a no-brainer, but the way a lot of people talk about marriage really irks me, as if there is some actual innate difference that makes marriage better than just being in a relationship, and if you're not married then you're not on the same level as people who are, or your relationship is somehow not as valid, which is just blatantly untrue.
As far as kids go, I decided many years ago that I didn't want any, and I still feel the same. Kids are great, but I don't want any of my own. There are tons of actual reasons, but at the end of the day, it comes down to the way my brain is "wired" (for lack of a better term). I just don't have that natural urge or instinct to have children. Like I said, there are other factors as well. I love kids, and I'm sorry, I'm sympathetic to parents who are dealing with this, I really am, but every time I'm in a store and I hear some kid screaming his/her head off, I thank my lucky stars I don't have any of my own. It's just not something I want to deal with. Just as an example.
But, like I said, at the end of the day, if I really wanted children, if I had that drive, then I don't think the negative aspects of raising a child would prevent me from doing so. It's really the inherent lack of an interest in having children that stops me, not any other reason.
Throbbing Member
I've been having one too many debates with people about my decision on childbearing in the future. Yes I'm young, that's why i don't want you bringing it up because i'm in the frame of mind that i DON'T WANT CHILDREN! There's no use telling me "that might change." I KNOW, BUT UNTIL THAT CHANGES, STFU AND LEAVE ME ALONE.
Basically, i'm not going to plan my life around having kids, but if i grow older "and change my mind", well i'll deal it with then! I mean i could see it happen since i do enjoy kids on some level and i have been growing a stronger understand of what "family" is to me...who knows. but again until then STOP FUCKING ASKING ME ABOUT IT.
Active Member
I went through this a lot on the old forum - let's see if I can articulate it as well here.
I don't believe in marriage because the concept has lost all meaning. It doesn't celebrate love, it isn't the next level in a relationship. Otherwise gay people would be able to get married and straight people who've had 5 divorces or need a green card/health insurance (see: allegro in the other thread, and I'm sure she won't get mad at this) wouldn't. Marriage is a business contract. It's cold, and it's hard, and it's not something I want to experience. I'd love a wedding, but I can throw a giant narcissistic party whenever I want.
I don't believe in procreation at this point in the human evolutionary cycle. This is a shitty world, I don't think new lives should be brought into it until we have a handle on the existing ones. The world is overpopulated and we're killing the planet - human creation is the primary culprit of this. Millions of children all over the world are crying out for parents - you can't make a mummy through IVF. I think it's wholly dispassionate to create new life instead of looking after these innocent people in need of love. It is therefore not necessary to procreate - to do so is selfish and narcissistic.
I'd love to fall in love for life and I'd love to raise a little girl/boy, but I don't think the above concepts have any relevance to these goals.
Throbbing Member
I'm singularly unpleasant to live with, very set in my routines and incredibly demanding. So I'm not holding my breath waiting for someone to 'complete me'. I'm pretty happy by myself.
And I hate kids. With a fiery burning passion. They only get sort of fun from around 6 and upwards, and only for a limited amount of time. And really: if I can't care for a fish or a potted plant without freaking out about it 24/7 and it dying on me regardless, how am I gonna be with a kid, huh? Bad idea.
So yeah, I'm one of those selfish 'I don't want to change my life for another person' people. That said: I deal with kids five days a week, seven hours a day, and I love them dearly. So I do contribute to the continued welbeing of the species. Just not by spreading my own defective gene set.
Throbbing Member
What would any of you do in case their partner did find marriage essential? The relationship is great and all, yet the other person needs to have that ceremony. What then? That's a legitimate question by the way, I'm not berating you.
Banned
ooh excellent thread
I travel a lot and need to be free to roam. Everyone I know who is married and/or has kids just ends up bitching about what a burden it is. Scares the shit out of me
there's too many people in this world to settle on just one person for the rest of your life. Like these kids getting married at 18, 19, and 20. How the fuck do you know you've found the one you want to be with for the rest of your life at that age?
I've never been one to adhere to the "proximity relationship" thing either. Just because I live in one town doesn't mean my dream partner isn't living somewhere else entirely
Active Member
I'm 26, and currently, not sold on the idea of having kids. I'd always thought "not gonna happen, period," until this year. Then I started to open up to the possibility. Part of the problem is that I just don't have that instant "awwww, isn't that cute" reaction to things that little kids do. And frankly, I think most babies are pretty ugly. But then I think about the fact that they aren't kids forever, and when I'm older, I think I'd like to have a relationship like the one I have with my parents now.
Also, I currently work a job where traveling (literally not being home) 40-48 weeks out of the year isn't unheard of, and the pay isn't all that fantastic either. So...never home, and not making loads of money? Even if I somehow manage to find a woman willing to settle down with someone like me, I can't see how adding a child to the mix would work.
Throbbing Member
I'm married but don't have any kids… yet. I've been delaying it because I'm not so sure my husband and I can handle the financial burden of kids (Who looks after them while we're working? If I decide to take a year off to be a stay-at-home-mom, can my husband's income take care of us?) I know my husband wants kids sooner than later but he understands that it will ultimately be my decision.
Active Member
Totally agreed.Originally Posted by playwithfire
And being selfish isn't always a bad thing. People throw that word around as if it's always a negative. If you want to go to college to become a doctor but your parents always had their hearts set on you becoming a lawyer, guess what? You're being selfish. But is anyone going to look down on you for choosing your own path in life and doing what makes you happy? People are ok with that example, but when you say, "Well, kids just aren't for me," suddenly it's, "Oh my GOD, you are so selfish, get over yourself." How is it any different?
I'm not crazy about people telling me that, either. It's not so much them raising the possibility of me changing my mind, since that's stating the obvious. If they meant it in an innocuous way, where they're just pointing it out, ok. Yes, it's possible I could change my mind. But people generally don't seem to mean it as an innocent, non-judgmental statement. The subtext a lot of times is, "No, no, no, you will change your mind, when you get a little older and a little wiser, you'll see the error of your ways." And that kind of crap drives me up a wall. It's so presumptuous. It's the same sort of thinking as, "Well, when you're older and you have a little bit of money, you'll become a Republican." Um, no. As if your point of view and decision isn't based on anything solid, or that it isn't valid, and it's just a matter of time before you come to your senses.And it's SO NOT OKAY to tell me I'll "change my mind" or even to say that I might. You might change your mind about being a Christian or being gay.
Throbbing Member
My Wife and I have been together for almost 10 years and married for 5. We don't have kids yet for two reasons. First kids are expensive. My Wife and I are financially stable, but the way things are here in the U.S. we're worried that could change any day. We are terrified that as soon as we have a kid one of us might lose our job and we would be fucked. Second The World is kind of a shitty place at the moment. Who are we to bring another life into this mess. Here is the thing that really grinds my gears. When we were first engaged everyone kept asking us the same thing. "You're too young to get married; are you pregnant?" Now that we have been married for a while we keep getting asked a new question. "Married five years, and no kids; is everything okay between you two?" Seriously, I will lose my shit next time someone asks that...
Down, but not out.
I actually don't mind married couples and parents as long as they don't criticize and condemn others just because they don't want to have children or get married. However, the married couples and parents that actually go out of their way to make an attempt ridicule and vilify people that are childfree claim that anybody that's childfree and unmarried doesn't really know anything about love, and they certainly rub it in when they talk about how they're at a higher level love. That is, well, until they get divorced or end up with miserable children that hate them. And let's face it, not all children are pleasant. Some children are just downright obnoxious, arrogant and cruel. Assholes and ingrates come in all ages. That's why I just don't buy the whole idea that children are blessings. A beneficial end-product is more of a blessing from my perspective.
I'm sure most of you have been subject to the following questions/comments as well. I know I certainly have. Even if you don't flat-out reveal that you don't want to have children, they act like it's a fluke of nature with in you. As for the questions/comments, here they are. (I just filled in some responses that might be useful. You could make up your own responses if you'd like. "Childfree Bingo" is sometimes fun.)
1. Who's going to take care of you when you get old?
(To this I say, children are not a pension plan. Some children might resent you for that when they become adults, and not all children remain close to their parents. Some of them just drift apart, especially by the time they're middle-aged.)
2. Don't you want a smaller/younger version of yourself?
(That's not always a guarantee. And well, that idea sort of creeps me out. I would not want another me. I have too many flaws, and I wouldn't want to spread them. If contraception fails, I'd hope for that child to be the complete opposite of me.)
3. Why wouldn't you want to continue your legacy?
(This bothered me because a true legacy in my opinion is not putting other human beings into this world, when you, yourself, have a more than enough problems of your own to deal with. Besides, just because you're a genius doesn't mean that your child will become one too. See number 2.)
4. What if you fall in love?
(I don't know. What part of "don't want" do you deliberate chose to ignore and/or misunderstand?)
5. Why are you being so selfish? / Aren't you being very selfish?
(I could say the same about you.)
6. How could your life not be meaningless without children?
(I'm sure there's more to life than procreation.)
7. The human race would die out if everybody had the same views as you.
(So what? If I'm dead, I wouldn't be able to care about that now would I? And stop worrying, there's far more than enough people to go around, and you should be thankful that there aren't more people like me in the first place.)
8. Why don't you want to become a parent?
(Why didn't you want to become an astronaut, a soldier, a lawyer or a surgeon? Oh yeah, that's right. Those aren't the jobs for you, just like how having children and parenthood aren't the jobs for me either.)
9. When are you going to have children?
(When will you stop being so nosy?)
10. You and your parents wouldn't be here if they were childfree.
(Yeah, obviously, but an existent childfree person would have to be subject to the arguments you bring up.)
11. Oh yeah? But children are beautiful.
That. Is. Not. A. Valid. Reason. To. Make. More. Humans.
I think I went to town with this long enough, and I'm sure there's far more questions for "Childfree Bingo". You can find most of them here.
http://www.happilychildfree.com/
And for some comic relief, here's a joke I found on Google. I'll make sure to paste it in bold and blue letters. I have no idea who coined it.
A husband and wife are waiting at the bus stop with their nine children. A blind man joins them after a few minutes. When the bus arrives, they find it overloaded and only the wife and the nine kids are able to fit onto the bus. So the husband and the blind man decide to walk. After a while, the husband gets irritated by the ticking of the stick of the blind man as he taps it on the sidewalk, and says to him, "Why don't you put a piece of rubber at the end of your stick? That ticking sound is driving me crazy." The blind man replies, "If you would've put a rubber at the end of YOUR stick, we'd be riding the bus ... so shut the hell up."
And for the record, I wouldn't dislike children for just being children. That's just ageist and wrong. However, I only like or dislike them based on their personalities in the same way I'd regard a teenager or an adult.
Last edited by Halo Infinity; 12-07-2011 at 10:17 PM.
desperately chilled
the correct response to disarm someone asking the ever persistent "so when ya gonna have kids" question is to grimace and say:
"we're unable to conceive"
works every time, especially if one of you starts quietly sobbing.
Down, but not out.
Awesome. Now that's a good one.
God is an American
Define "essential". Marriage is supposed to be a union of two people, after all... if they find having another person united to them is essential to what defines who they are, then I'm not going to be terribly interested in them. This is a discussion you should have relatively early in a long-term relationship (within the first year or so) and if they aren't going to budge on their opinion then it's a pretty clear sign there'll be trouble down the road.
Active Member
I just came extremely close to spitting food out of my mouth with the addition of that last line.
Stubby Member
I would never, ever have my own child instead of adopting. And that's if my mind does a total flip in what I want in life, because I can't see wanting a child at any point.
I am married, but I didn't find it a necessary part of our relationship. My husband did- to him, it means sharing our love with our other loved ones (which we symbolized in our ceremony) and a way to show each other that we are fully committed, beyond everyday words and actions. I respect this fully, but had to take out any part of marriage I find sexist- there was no veil, my father did not give me away, I still have my birth name, and the color of my dress did not indicate the status of my virginity. I had a lot of people here actually bitching at me about not taking on his name, and it pissed me off more than I can say. Not to mention that I got bitching because my ring isn't gold or a diamond- seriously?
In other words, we made marriage what we believe it's about; in the end, marriage is for you and your partner, and doesn't have to have any relation with its past.
It pains me that homosexuals can't marry, and I do everything in my power to fight against this, but I can't let the stupidity of this country's politics damage my relationship's progression.
Active Member
Ok, that was quite blunt, but I don't not believe any of it.
Literally the objective truth. <3
Throbbing Member
That is the other thing. My wife and I agreed (prompted by my insistence) that she keep her name. She has worked too hard to make a name for herself, and it is foolish for her to change it now. Thing is my family, and her grandparents, refuse to accept it. They send letters, and emails, and what not addressed to her with my last name. Also my "friends" and co-workers say that she kept her name because "I have no balls". . .
Active Member
Your friends and co-workers are sexist. So is your family. They're also being incredibly rude by not respecting you and your wife's wishes. You're doing the right thing, so screw what they think.
Stubby Member
Have you asked them why they think it's fair to force that upon someone? The reasoning I heard was "What if you have kids one day- they won't feel like you're a real family." If it takes marriage and the same last name to feel like you're in a real family, then you don't understand family. And if it's that important, why aren't you bugging the man as well- he is welcome to take my name!
Bite me
Meh, that same shit happened to me, ignore it. People can use whatever the fuck name they choose. It's nobody else's business. Ultimately, it's not important. It's just a name. No more.
If you really want to fuck with them, both of you change your surname to "EatMe."
Down, but not out.
What the fuck? Seriously? That's actually an issue? That shouldn't even be their damn business. I'm just far more appalled that they're being so petty about something like that.
Oh yes, that's certainly one of the most condescending and presumptuous critiques married couples give to unmarried couples. If there's love, a positive rapport, and a secure foundation, that's all the truly matters.
This. +1. Precisely. Their thoughts on that matter don't mean shit, nor should they. It's just so, damn, such people actually make a fuss over those things? And I thought I bitched a lot.
Last edited by Halo Infinity; 12-07-2011 at 10:06 PM.
Throbbing Member
in the end that is more or less how we feel.
Bite me
Okay I wanna play!
1. Who's going to take care of you when you get old?
Hahaha, go visit any nursing home and see how many people are in there who were completely abandoned by their children. I'll give you a hint: Most of them.
2. Don't you want a smaller/younger version of yourself?
Um, why? That's sick, dude.
3. Why wouldn't you want to continue your legacy?
I'll do that via my Trust, dude. My Trust won't run off and blow it all on coke and hookers.
4. What if you fall in love?
We'll buy coke and hookers.
5. Why are you being so selfish? / Aren't you being very selfish?
Spawning children is the ultimate form of selfish.
6. How could your life not be meaningless without children?
Think of how meaningless your life will be when your kids run off with drunken coke addict hookers and you're left alone in a nursing home.
7. The human race would die out if everybody had the same views as you.
This wouldn't be a bad thing.
8. Why don't you want to become a parent?
None of your business.
9. When are you going to have children?
Why are you so ugly?
10. You and your parents wouldn't be here if they were childfree?
Bingo!
2.71828183
I have kids but I want to answer too - I waited over 7 years to have kids, while I was going to school, and it used to piss me off when my husband's relatives would harass us. I thought of many snappy comebacks, most of which I never used. Having kids is a personal choice and I wouldn't think less of anyone who chooses not to have them. It is not like we're running out of people.
1. Who's going to take care of you when you get old?
The people I'll be able to afford to pay, with the money I saved from not having kids.
2. Don't you want a smaller/younger version of yourself?
If that's why someone wants kids their misinformed, because guaranteed, your kids will NOT be smaller/younger versions of yourself. You will wonder if they are actually really your kids, based on how they act sometimes. They will be 100% themselves.
3. Why wouldn't you want to continue your legacy?
WTF does that even mean? Legacy? Life is about the good you put back into the world - you don't need kids to do that.
4. What if you fall in love?
What does that have to with anything.
5. Why are you being so selfish? / Aren't you being very selfish?
It is selfish, in a way, to have kids.
6. How could your life not be meaningless without children?
If you are having kids only to give your life meaning, you are really selfish!
7. The human race would die out if everybody had the same views as you.
And your point is?
8. Why don't you want to become a parent?
Uh, what if my kids turned out like you?
9. When are you going to have children?
Do you want to wait in the living room? We can go start trying now....
10. You and your parents wouldn't be here if they were childfree?
Yeah and I wouldn't know about it if I wasn't here.
Bite me
Those are good answers, too, RedShoes.
My own personal answer to this question is: I don't know. It's changed but, well, shit happens. It's all worked out and I'm happy. I'm happier than some of my friends WITH kids.
Last edited by allegro; 03-22-2014 at 09:53 PM.
Down, but not out.
If I actually encounter or find more bone-headed questions, I'll make sure to post them here. Thank you all for the laughs and breaths for fresh air so far. I really appreciate them. I've witnessed married couples and parents having the audacity in all seriousness to claim that people without a marriage or children had less meaningful, interesting and fulfilling lives. I clearly don't buy it, but how is that not insulting? They're basically implying that the childfree and the unmarried are sad, boring losers that have no lives.
This thread could also use some Bill Hicks too. If only ad infinitum were here right now.
Throbbing Member
No one answered me so I'm reposting my question (sorry about that, I won't re-repost it however, I promise), because I'd really like to know what you guys think about a situation like this:
Active Member
^^I don't really know. Perhaps I'd be like Tea and go through with it for them. But then, if they found marriage *essential* would I even get past a few dates with them?
HA! I LOVE this. Next time someone asks me I should just have sex in front of them.
Last edited by icklekitty; 12-08-2011 at 03:03 AM.
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