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Thread: The Childfree and/or Unmarried Thread

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by theruiner View Post
    Whaaa? Dude, they're just little kids, they don't know any better. This goes beyond life experience; biologically, their brains aren't fully developed. You can't fault them for that. Plus, at that age, bad behavior a lot of the time can be blamed on bad parenting, though, obviously, that's not always the case. Sometimes kids are just being kids, and they have no control of that. It's just where they are in their brain development.

    That being said, every time I hear a kid screeching and throwing a giant temper tantrum in the middle of a store I feel like jumping out a window. I don't blame the kid, and really, I don't blame the parent, because I know even the most well-behaved kids can have their moments, but God damn does it drive me up a wall. I have sympathy, but that doesn't make it any less annoying.
    Small children can't help it, and while current thought is that parents should not "give in" to tantrums (since that's why the kiddo throws them in the first place), it's just irritating as fuck to everyone around. Older than maybe 4 or 5, the kids should have enough discipline and self-control to not be whiny screaming brats. Those are the kids/parents that piss me off.

  2. #62
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    When a child or baby is doing that, no matter the age, the parents should remove the child. Period. That's the way it was for many generations, it's proper. That's why there are cry rooms in churches. My mother removed us, her mother removed her, it was always done, for good reason.

    Manners aside, it's sad for me to see a young child desperately trying to communicate with his/her mother, while said mother has completely tuned him/her out. I don't give a shit what they're teaching parents, now, that's sending a clear and indelible message to the kid: my mother is abandoning me for her iPhone or her friends; she is not reliable. Meanwhile, I get a migraine from this drama unfolding in Macy's.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by theruiner View Post
    Whaaa? Dude, they're just little kids, they don't know any better. This goes beyond life experience; biologically, their brains aren't fully developed. You can't fault them for that. Plus, at that age, bad behavior a lot of the time can be blamed on bad parenting, though, obviously, that's not always the case. Sometimes kids are just being kids, and they have no control of that. It's just where they are in their brain development.

    That being said, every time I hear a kid screeching and throwing a giant temper tantrum in the middle of a store I feel like jumping out a window. I don't blame the kid, and really, I don't blame the parent, because I know even the most well-behaved kids can have their moments, but God damn does it drive me up a wall. I have sympathy, but that doesn't make it any less annoying.
    I think this has more to do with Western-style parenting. In China, according to the following article, parents have tremendous control over their children's behavior. Of course, the Chinese style also seems to require quite a bit more discipline and time on the parent's part.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...528698754.html

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by theruiner View Post
    Whaaa? Dude, they're just little kids, they don't know any better. This goes beyond life experience; biologically, their brains aren't fully developed. You can't fault them for that. Plus, at that age, bad behavior a lot of the time can be blamed on bad parenting, though, obviously, that's not always the case. Sometimes kids are just being kids, and they have no control of that. It's just where they are in their brain development.
    I'm actually talking about older children and teenagers that are rebellious, rambunctious, obnoxious, noisy and arrogant. I do get your point though, and have taken that into consideration. And you're right, bad parenting is often the blame, as I won't deny that either. Sorry about that though, as I did type that out of anger, but some parents really do allow their children and teenagers to be a pain in the ass to others as if they're never in the wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by theruiner View Post
    That being said, every time I hear a kid screeching and throwing a giant temper tantrum in the middle of a store I feel like jumping out a window.
    I actually get where you're coming from. As for me, that also makes me feel very awkward.

    Quote Originally Posted by theruiner View Post
    I don't blame the kid, and really, I don't blame the parent, because I know even the most well-behaved kids can have their moments, but God damn does it drive me up a wall. I have sympathy, but that doesn't make it any less annoying.
    Exactly. It's a good thing that you do, but I can see why it has that effect on you regardless.

    Quote Originally Posted by sublimaze View Post
    Small children can't help it, and while current thought is that parents should not "give in" to tantrums (since that's why the kiddo throws them in the first place), it's just irritating as fuck to everyone around. Older than maybe 4 or 5, the kids should have enough discipline and self-control to not be whiny screaming brats. Those are the kids/parents that piss me off.
    Exactly. I always thought that there was something wrong with that. Children will be belligerent, and there's no question about that either, but such predicaments will obviously aggravate everybody else surrounding you.

    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    When a child or baby is doing that, no matter the age, the parents should remove the child. Period. That's the way it was for many generations, it's proper. That's why there are cry rooms in churches. My mother removed us, her mother removed her, it was always done, for good reason.
    Agreed.

    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    Manners aside, it's sad for me to see a young child desperately trying to communicate with his/her mother, while said mother has completely tuned him/her out. I don't give a shit what they're teaching parents, now, that's sending a clear and indelible message to the kid: my mother is abandoning me for her iPhone or her friends; she is not reliable. Meanwhile, I get a migraine from this drama unfolding in Macy's.
    Damn, that's just fucked up. Good listening skills are important in any sort of relationship and that certainly includes the child/parent one.
    Last edited by Kris; 12-16-2011 at 01:40 AM.

  5. #65
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    ^^Oh, I do understand about older kids and teenagers, though. Fuck teenagers with no manners. I know, they might grow out of it and become nice, decent adults. It happens. But they are old enough to know better, without a doubt. I see teenagers all the time hanging out at the local fucking Wal-Mart, running up and down the aisles and generally being loud, obnoxious brats.

    Plus, some of it is just bizarre. Today...just today...I'm at the library minding my own business and I hear this voice to the left of me: "Hey, would you like to date us?" This was perplexing, to say the least, so I turn around and it's a couple of teenage girls. I just shook my head and went back to what I was doing and they disappeared somewhere. It was weird. I mean, it wasn't, like, a huge deal or anything, but it was a little annoying (and weird). I'm sure they thought it was really funny for whatever stupid reason.

    That being said, I know of young people who are really great and well-behaved, so I know that's possible. And, even though I remember having some obnoxious moments as a teenager, for the most part me and my friends were pretty good kids. We never went around doing anything too awful and were generally pretty nice to people. So. You know. They're out there, too.

  6. #66
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    Oh absolutely. Some children and teenagers are very chill and decent folk. Sometimes it's not true and sometimes it isn't, but it shows through their parents because they're also pleasant to speak to. (Since not all kids are like their parents in that regard and vice-versa.) Thanks for hearing me out theruiner. I completely agree with you there as well.

    And yes, that was weird.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    Manners aside, it's sad for me to see a young child desperately trying to communicate with his/her mother, while said mother has completely tuned him/her out. I don't give a shit what they're teaching parents, now, that's sending a clear and indelible message to the kid: my mother is abandoning me for her iPhone or her friends; she is not reliable. Meanwhile, I get a migraine from this drama unfolding in Macy's.
    Oh, I see this so often on the bus/in the street and it makes me want to cry. Parents who shout at their kids when they try to speak, or even those that wheel their babies/toddlers onto public transport, turn their pram the wall, and then ignore them for the entire journey. I want to physically hurt these parents. These kids aren't strangers, they're people YOU MADE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by icklekitty View Post
    Oh, I see this so often on the bus/in the street and it makes me want to cry. Parents who shout at their kids when they try to speak, or even those that wheel their babies/toddlers onto public transport, turn their pram the wall, and then ignore them for the entire journey. I want to physically hurt these parents. These kids aren't strangers, they're people YOU MADE.
    All the more reason why the world needs to end asap.

  9. #69
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    Lots of research has shown that couples with children tend to be unhappier than couples without children.

    Further study have shown that this correlation is not causal, though. The real difference is that happier couples make the time to be kind to each other, and this is simply harder - but not impossible - to do when you have kids.

    Newspaper article.

  10. #70
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    I wanna do it! I wanna do it!

    1. Who's going to take care of you when you get old?
    When I become old and infirm, I'm going to turn to Mr. Magnum. Or Mr. Exhaust Pipe. Or maybe Mr. Huge Epic Cliff.

    2. Don't you want a smaller/younger version of yourself?
    What am I, Dr. Evil?

    3. Why wouldn't you want to continue your legacy?
    Oh yeah, like how Paris Hilton continued the legacy of Dick Hilton?

    4. What if you fall in love?
    Then we'll eat, fuck, and be merry. And we might even include other loving couples in our fucking. And no one will have children, because I have a vasectomy, and all will be right with the world.

    5. Why are you being so selfish? / Aren't you being very selfish?
    It's selfish to have children, and it's selfish to not have children. If you really must care for a future disease carrier, adopt.

    6. How could your life not be meaningless without children?
    How could your life be meaningful with children? I like non sequiturs, do you like non sequiturs?

    7. The human race would die out if everybody had the same views as you.
    Not if we become cylons, bitch.

    8. Why don't you want to become a parent?
    Because I fuckin hate children you dildo!

    9. When are you going to have children?
    When hell pops from nothingness into existence, and then proceeds to freeze over.

    10. You and your parents wouldn't be here if they were childfree?
    I see you understand cause and effect.

    YAY! That was fun.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alexandros View Post
    What would any of you do in case their partner did find marriage essential? The relationship is great and all, yet the other person needs to have that ceremony. What then? That's a legitimate question by the way, I'm not berating you.
    I would take the exact same attitude towards it that I do right now: it's just a piece of paper.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by theruiner View Post
    Whaaa? Dude, they're just little kids, they don't know any better. This goes beyond life experience; biologically, their brains aren't fully developed. You can't fault them for that. Plus, at that age, bad behavior a lot of the time can be blamed on bad parenting, though, obviously, that's not always the case. Sometimes kids are just being kids, and they have no control of that. It's just where they are in their brain development.

    That being said, every time I hear a kid screeching and throwing a giant temper tantrum in the middle of a store I feel like jumping out a window. I don't blame the kid, and really, I don't blame the parent, because I know even the most well-behaved kids can have their moments, but God damn does it drive me up a wall. I have sympathy, but that doesn't make it any less annoying.

  13. #73
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    ^^It was just a matter of time before someone brought Louis in here.

  14. #74
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    Honestly, if you've ever read interviews with him, or especially if you listen to WTF With Marc Maron podcast (which is amazing, by the way) he talks, in depth, about how having kids completely revolutionized and resurrected his life. Never thought Louis would make me emotional, but I was downright crying by the end of this episode. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WERoM...eature=related. There are 8 parts total, but it's so worth it. If there was ever an argument for having kids, it's Louis CK's life and career since he had them. I'm still at the "fuck it, I'm too young to worry about that shit, fuck you" point in my life, but I can see myself going back to the conversation between Marc and Louis when I'm actually grappling with the decision.
    Last edited by Aaron; 12-25-2011 at 02:51 PM.

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    ^^I've heard that whole interview and while, yes, it is awesome, it most certainly didn't even pull me in the direction of having kids.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by theruiner View Post
    I don't believe in marriage. Which is to say, I don't mind what other people do, and I'm not judging anyone who chooses to get married at all, but to me it's an arbitrary thing. You can be just as in love, just as dedicated and have a relationship on the same level without going through a special ceremony or getting a piece of paper.

    Like I said, though, it all depends on the people involved. For some people, it really does make some sort of a difference for them, and that's great. For others (myself included), they don't feel a need to do that to feel like their relationship is complete. I know it sounds like a no-brainer, but the way a lot of people talk about marriage really irks me, as if there is some actual innate difference that makes marriage better than just being in a relationship, and if you're not married then you're not on the same level as people who are, or your relationship is somehow not as valid, which is just blatantly untrue.

    As far as kids go, I decided many years ago that I didn't want any, and I still feel the same. Kids are great, but I don't want any of my own. There are tons of actual reasons, but at the end of the day, it comes down to the way my brain is "wired" (for lack of a better term). I just don't have that natural urge or instinct to have children. Like I said, there are other factors as well. I love kids, and I'm sorry, I'm sympathetic to parents who are dealing with this, I really am, but every time I'm in a store and I hear some kid screaming his/her head off, I thank my lucky stars I don't have any of my own. It's just not something I want to deal with. Just as an example.

    But, like I said, at the end of the day, if I really wanted children, if I had that drive, then I don't think the negative aspects of raising a child would prevent me from doing so. It's really the inherent lack of an interest in having children that stops me, not any other reason.
    This. Absolutely and entirely this.

    Would you like to... uh.. not marry me?

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    Manners aside, it's sad for me to see a young child desperately trying to communicate with his/her mother, while said mother has completely tuned him/her out. I don't give a shit what they're teaching parents, now, that's sending a clear and indelible message to the kid: my mother is abandoning me for her iPhone or her friends; she is not reliable. Meanwhile, I get a migraine from this drama unfolding in Macy's.
    While I'm not saying this is necessarily a good way to threat children, you don't know anything about their situation other than what you observe at the store. I've witnessed countless times, with my sister and her kids, where the children CONSTANTLY interrupt for non-important things. It's one thing if the kid actually needs something important or is an emergency, but going along with the development of their brains, they need to be taught when it is appropriate to talk to people. If they are clearly talking to someone else, whether it's in person or on a phone, they need to learn courtesy and patience enough to wait.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldfoot View Post
    While I'm not saying this is necessarily a good way to threat children, you don't know anything about their situation other than what you observe at the store. I've witnessed countless times, with my sister and her kids, where the children CONSTANTLY interrupt for non-important things. It's one thing if the kid actually needs something important or is an emergency, but going along with the development of their brains, they need to be taught when it is appropriate to talk to people. If they are clearly talking to someone else, whether it's in person or on a phone, they need to learn courtesy and patience enough to wait.
    IGNORING them is not the way to teach that. TELLING them what is unacceptable behavior is the way to teach that (and it doesn't give the rest of us a fucking migraine).

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    IGNORING them is not the way to teach that. TELLING them what is unacceptable behavior is the way to teach that (and it doesn't give the rest of us a fucking migraine).
    But you don't know how much of explaining may have gone on before the situation you witnessed. Again, I'm not blindly condoning this entire course of action, but I know that at a point you have to understand that the child KNOWS what you have said and is just testing to see how much you meant it. And when you are in public, they know the stakes are higher. They do. They may not be fully developed, but they are masters at manipulation in certain regards. A child will be told no by one parent and then immediately go ask another parent, or even a grandparent, for the same thing. They understand that the adults haven't had time to talk to each other about what is going on and they just want to hear the word "yes". So yes, in certain cases ignoring them may be the way to properly teach them.

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    Dude, I have god children in their 20s, I wasn't born yesterday, I ran a successful babysitting business for many years, and majored in Child Development in high school. I know all about what you're taking about, but that was NOT the situations I'm talking about. These weren't children; these were BABIES. None more than two years old.

    These moms are DEAF to this. Honest. It's the new hip rich parenting method: ignore them, they are a fashion accessory like a Coach bag. Even when the kid is reaching out to topple a giant display at Crate and Barrel, no shit, I've seen it too many times.

    My mom raised two kids as a single parent. And when she goes to a restaurant, she asks to sit where there are no kids.

    If you want to teach your screaming misbehaving kids by ignoring them, you do that AT HOME and NOT in public.
    Last edited by allegro; 12-26-2011 at 10:15 PM.

  21. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    Dude, I have god children in their 20s, I wasn't born yesterday, I ran a successful babysitting business for many years, and majored in Child Development in high school. I know all about what you're taking about, but that was NOT the situations I'm talking about. These weren't children; these were BABIES. None more than two years old.
    Ok, while I will admit that what I have been referring to doesn't apply to what you were talking about, you must admit you weren't clear in the age of these children. The term "young child" is NOT synonymous with "baby" and therefore I wasn't under the impression that it was an infant you were referring to.

  22. #82
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    Okay, I concede that you could misread it (although Icklekitty didn't). To me, a "young child" is still a two or three year old. Which isn't an infant, either.

    Either way, a public place is not the place for it, no matter the age. Remove them. Even Super Nanny does that.
    Last edited by allegro; 12-26-2011 at 11:08 PM.

  23. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    Dude, I have god children in their 20s, I wasn't born yesterday, I ran a successful babysitting business for many years, and majored in Child Development in high school. I know all about what you're taking about, but that was NOT the situations I'm talking about. These weren't children; these were BABIES. None more than two years old.

    These moms are DEAF to this. Honest. It's the new hip rich parenting method: ignore them, they are a fashion accessory like a Coach bag. Even when the kid is reaching out to topple a giant display at Crate and Barrel, no shit, I've seen it too many times.

    My mom raised two kids as a single parent. And when she goes to a restaurant, she asks to sit where there are no kids.

    If you want to teach your screaming misbehaving kids by ignoring them, you do that AT HOME and NOT in public.
    Seriously, that was very spot on. I've seen many parents do what you've just said, and I'm appalled at what they allow their children to do. And yes, some of them have actually paraded their children around as fashion accessories too.

  24. #84
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    There are seven billion people on the planet. It should be illegal to create more until we figure out what to do with the ones we already have.

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    Okay, I'll bite.

    1. Who's going to take care of you when you get old?
    I'll figure it out as I get closer to that point.

    2. Don't you want a smaller/younger version of yourself?
    Not right now. And I would want the kid to be his/her own person, not a Mini-Me.

    3. Why wouldn't you want to continue your legacy?
    Simply put, I'm not sure I can afford it right now.

    4. What if you fall in love?
    I'm already married. I'm in love. I just choose not to procreate at this point in time.

    5. Why are you being so selfish? / Aren't you being very selfish?
    I need to take care of myself before I can take care of another person.

    6. How could your life not be meaningless without children?
    There's more to life than having children. Helping the needy, rescuing injured animals, giving of yourself add tremendous meaning to life.

    7. The human race would die out if everybody had the same views as you.
    This is a stupid straw man argument. Humanity wouldn't die out, but it certainly wouldn't increase in population like it is right now.

    8. Why don't you want to become a parent?
    It's not that I don't want to become a parent. It's that I don't think I can handle the financial side of having children right now.

    9. When are you going to have children?
    When I'm ready. And that's none of your business.

    10. You and your parents wouldn't be here if they were childfree.
    Again with the stupid straw man argument. I'm here, aren't I?

    11. Oh yeah? But children are beautiful.

    Not gonna disagree, but they aren't beautiful when they misbehave and parents are too scared to discipline them.

    And a note to parents: don't be afraid to discipline your child in public. This does not mean you have the right to physically abuse or yell things at your child that would make even the saltiest of sailors blush. It means that you should deal with your child's tantrums before they turn into meltdowns. Keep your child under control and don't let them run off. Make them clean up any messes they make. Make them return anything they took without paying for and then apologize for taking it.

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    I thought it was gonna go something like this.

    Quote Originally Posted by leo3375 View Post


    11. Oh yeah? But children are beautiful.

    What are you, some kind of a pervert?

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    Before we got married, my fiancee (now my wife of almost 10 years) and I sat down and decided that we don't want biological children. We were serious about it, because there are many children who are already alive that need families, and we think having bio-kids is selfish. We might adopt one day, or maybe we won't. We'll see, but either way we're not in a rush.

    I went ahead and got a vasectomy when I was 23 (3 years into my marriage, so we didn't jump the gun). The best thing I ever did. However, I'd like to point out that our doctor made us go to therapy for 6 months before he did the surgery! I actually see his point, since it's irreversible, and I was very young, but still...

    Anybody can have kids. You can be a 14 year old white trash high school drop-out, and chances are people will still congratulate you and tell you that being a mom is wonderful and a fucking miracle. You can be incompetent, and not ready, broke, whatever, and you can have a baby.
    But when you want to make a decision NOT TO have one, oh no, are you sure about it? You should think it over a million times, and meditate on it, and you're so weird.

    It's also considered strange to actually MAKE A DECISION, people just got used to the idea that pregnancy is something that just HAPPENS.

  28. #88
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    If you want a vasectomy, you can still have kids. Just go to the orphanage and adopt one that aforementioned 14 year old white trash shat out a few months ago.

    Most children in this country wait over two years to get adopted. All we need to wait is 9 months; lucky us.

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    The adaption procedure in Belgium is ridiculous, no idea how it is in other countries. But it's easier to legally bring home a black market Chinese baby than to adopt a Belgian orphan.

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    People in the US have the common misconception that adoption is expensive and takes forever. Getting a white infant IS. It might be quicker to get a cute little infant from China...

    But if you adopt an older child, 4+ year old, through the public system (out of orphanage or foster care), it's not costly and it's very reasonable. Saddens me that people look at these children as "damaged goods", because they WILL have some issues, but you know what, fair enough. They are children who don't have families, of course they'll have issues!

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