2016 Presidential Election

[Mantra]

I care because politicians need to be accountable, especially politicians running for POTUS. Hillary has a reputation of being untrustworthy, above the rules that everyone else needs to follow, and part of the establishment. Her email situation is another example that puts all of that on display and there is significant evidence behind it. I don't want someone being given the top executive powers in our country who thinks they are above everyone else and will do whatever the fuck she wants and lie to the public.

Obviously the general principle of what you're talking about is true, but invoking that in this context is kind of a weird overreaction. She didn't stab someone and get away with it. She was a bit too careless about her email security. Big deal, there are bigger fish to fry. I mean, we could dig up some incident where she illegally jay walked and then sweet talked her way out of a ticket, and I could say "Look! Yet again she she thinks she's above the law and can do whatever the fuck she wants," but that would be crazy. It's absurd to make these dramatic indictments of her character and reputation over this petty nonsense. Sure, she could have handled the email shit better, but I still haven't seen anything that truly justifies this magnitude of outrage and obsession. This whole "controversy" is like a text book example of a red herring fallacy. It's a meaningless thing to focus on.

[allegro]

Technically, Texas has only been this red for a couple of decades. Here's hoping my vote counts this time.

Jimmy Carter in 1976 was the last Democratic presidential candidate to carry Texas.

[DigitalChaos]

Obviously the general principle of what you're talking about is true, but invoking that in this context is kind of a weird overreaction.

in what context?

She was a bit too careless about her email security. Big deal, there are bigger fish to fry. I mean, we could dig up some incident where she illegally jay walked and then sweet talked her way out of a ticket, and I could say "Look! Yet again she she thinks she's above the law and can do whatever the fuck she wants,"

People say this kind of thing and I always wonder if they are deliberately downplaying it, or if they truly don't understand the issue. In their heads they sympathize and think they would have little issue doing exactly what Hillary did. It's nothing like jaywalking. Every lower ranking person who broke security the way she did would have ended their careers, if not landed themselves in prison. That's not what happens when you get caught jaywalking.

This is like Hillary writing the nuke codes on the palm of her hand because it's easier than lugging around that giant bag.

The only people who downplay this issue the way you just did are people who have no understanding of InfoSec as it concerns military/government controls. Ask anyone who has been involved in government InfoSec and see if they feel this is a non-issue on par with simple jaywalking. Every single one will tell you how even much smaller offenses would end their careers at a minimum.

[allegro]

This is like Hillary writing the nuke codes on the palm of her hand because it's easier than lugging around that giant bag.

The nuclear codes are on a little credit-card-size card called a bisquit that they carry in their pocket or whatever. The briefcase (football) carries the plans for nuclear launches. The codes on the bisquit CHANGE DAILY.

Hillary has repeatedly indicated that she did not issue or discuss top secret commands via email. Ever. That was not disproven by the investigation. The fact that the military / government NEVER FIGURED OUT that the Secretary of State broke protocol with email until long after is a good indication of just how BAD our alleged "InfoSec" is in government.

The people at the top of the recent Wells Fargo mess do not have ended careers. And they committed FRAUD. As Elizabeth Warren indicated, a teller at the bottom would have been fired, instantly; the people at the top were the same who caused the mortgage crisis of 2008 and received not only no job discipline but no criminal charges, although the bank was charged millions in fines, and the people at the top received bonuses.

The Keating Five, which was part of the great S&L meltdown, same thing. And one of them went on to become the Republican Presidential nominee of 2008, instead of serving prison time. While hundreds of thousands lost their life savings, he is still Senator in Arizona.

The bottom line is that NO "lower ranking person" would ever have the AUTHORITY to make a decision like creating an outside server instead of using an official server in a government job: that is an impossible scenario, so it's a moot point.

[implanted_microchip]

http://nytimes.com/2016/09/22/us/pol...oters.amp.html

Ughhhhhhhhhhhhhh

I am so unbelievably tired of this man

[DigitalChaos]

The people at the top of the recent Wells Fargo mess do not have ended careers. And they committed FRAUD. As Elizabeth Warren indicated, a teller at the bottom would have been fired, instantly; the people at the top were the same who caused the mortgage crisis of 2008 and received not only no job discipline but no criminal charges, although the bank was charged millions in fines, and the people at the top received bonuses.

You comparing this to Hillary says everything. I agree. Hillary is very much like the people at the top of Wells Fargo who commit fraud and will get away with it. It's something very wrong and not something we should be ok with. Just look at the commentary from Sanders and Warren on that topic.


Wall Street for POTUS!



PS - Hillary didn't have the authority to create a private email server for classified material, as you imply she did. That's yet another problem with her.

[tony.parente]

Found this on reddit:

Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton are in a bar. Donald leans over, and with a smile on his face, says, "The media is really tearing you apart for that Scandal."
Hillary: "You mean my lying about Benghazi?"
Trump: "No, the other one."
Hillary: "You mean the massive voter fraud?"
Trump: "No, the other one."
Hillary: "You mean the military not getting their votes counted?"
Trump: "No, the other one."
Hillary: "Using my secret private server with classified material to Hide my Activities?"
Trump: "No, the other one."
Hillary: "The NSA monitoring our phone calls, emails and everything Else?"
Trump: "No, the other one."
Hillary: "Using the Clinton Foundation as a cover for tax evasion, Hiring Cronies, And taking bribes from foreign countries?"
Trump: "No, the other one."
Hillary: "You mean the drones being operated in our own country without The Benefit of the law?"
Trump: "No, the other one."
Hillary: "Giving 123 Technologies $300 Million, and right afterward it Declared Bankruptcy and was sold to the Chinese?"
Trump: "No, the other one."
Hillary: "You mean arming the Muslim Brotherhood and hiring them in the White House?"
Trump: "No, the other one."
Hillary: "Whitewater, Watergate committee, Vince Foster, commodity Deals?"
Trump: "No the other one:"
Hillary: "Turning Libya into chaos?"
Trump: "No the other one:"
Hillary: "Being the mastermind of the so-called “Arab Spring” that only brought chaos, death and destruction to the Middle East and North Africa?"
Trump: "No the other one:"
Hillary: "Leaving four Americans to die in Benghazi?"
Trump: "No the other one:"
Hillary: "Trashing Mubarak, one of our few Muslim friends?"
Trump: "No the other one:"
Hillary: "The funding and arming of terrorists in Syria, the destruction and destabilization of that nation, giving the order to our lapdogs in Turkey and Saudi Arabia to give sarin gas to the "moderate" terrorists in Syria that they eventually used on civilians, and framed Assad, and had it not been for the Russians and Putin, we would have used that as a pretext to invade Syria, put a puppet in power, steal their natural resources, and leave that country in total chaos, just like we did with Libya?
Trump: "No the other one:"
Hillary: "The creation of the biggest refugees crisis since WWII?"
Trump: "No the other one:"
Hillary: "Leaving Iraq in chaos? "
Trump: "No, the other one."
Hillary: "The DOJ spying on the press?"
Trump: "No, the other one."
Hillary: "You mean HHS Secretary Sibelius shaking down health insurance Executives?"
Trump: "No, the other one."
Hillary: "Giving our cronies in SOLYNDRA $500 MILLION DOLLARS and 3 Months Later they declared bankruptcy and then the Chinese bought it?"
Trump: "No, the other one."
Hillary: "The NSA monitoring citizens' ?"
Trump: "No, the other one."
Hillary: "The State Department interfering with an Inspector General Investigation on departmental sexual misconduct?"
Trump: "No, the other one."
Hillary: "Me, The IRS, Clapper and Holder all lying to Congress?"
Trump: "No, the other one."
Hillary: "Threats to all of Bill's former mistresses to keep them quiet? " Trump: "No, the other one."
Hillary: "You mean the INSIDER TRADING of the Tyson chicken deal I did where I invested $1,000 and the next year I got $100,000?
Trump" "No, the other one."
Hillary: "You mean when Bill flew with the director of the FBI director Loretta Lynch just before my hearing to cut a deal with her?"
Trump" "No, the other one."
Hillary: " You mean the one where my IT guy at Platte River Networks asked Reddit for help to alter emails?"
Trump" "No, the other one."
Hillary: "You mean where the former Haitain Senate President accused me and my foundation of asking him for bribes?"
Trump" "No, the other one."
Hillary: "You mean that old video of me laughing as I explain how I got the charges against that child rapist dropped by blaming the young girl for liking older men and fantasizing about them. Even though I knew the guy was guilty?
Trump" "No, the other one."
Hillary: "You mean that video of me coughing up a giant green lunger into my drinking glass then drinking it back down?"
Trump" "No, the other one."
Hillary: "You mean that video of me passing out on the curb and losing my shoe?"
Trump" "No, the other one."
Hillary: "You mean when I robbed Bernie Sanders of the Democratic Party Nomination by having the DNC rig the nomination process so that I would win?"
Trump" "No, the other one."
Hillary: "You mean how so many people that oppose me have died in mysterious was?"
Trump" "No, the other one."
Hillary: "I give up! ... Oh wait, I think I've got it! When I stole the White House furniture, silverware, when Bill left Office?"
Trump: "THAT'S IT! I almost forgot about that one".

[allegro]

You comparing this to Hillary says everything. I agree. Hillary is very much like the people at the top of Wells Fargo who commit fraud and will get away with it. It's something very wrong and not something we should be ok with. Just look at the commentary from Sanders and Warren on that topic. Wall Street for POTUS!

PS - Hillary didn't have the authority to create a private email server for classified material, as you imply she did. That's yet another problem with her.

Yes, Hillary did have the authority because SHE DID IT and nobody noticed AT ALL, nobody even told her she was not supposed to do it. Her only higher boss was the President. Those who care could have NOTICED and said that is not allowed. Neither happened.

Second, the only outrage about Wells Fargo is coming from Warren. I was pissed at them 12 years ago when I saw what they were doing in the mortgage industry. I am in that business! OBVIOUS mortgage fraud, they were the biggest offenders. And they hurt the whole country, cost us a LOT of money, people lost their houses, equity dropped like a stone, some never recovered.

And nothing HRC did (re deciding to control her own email server instead of having the nightmare security government do it) hurt anybody.

You asserted that lower people who "did what Hillary did" would be fired, which is faulty logic for several reasons: (1) lower people wouldn't have the authority to do it unless they were deliberately committing a criminal act; (2) Hillary was not intentionally doing anything nefarious or fraudulent, she was merely trying to keep the data more secure than she thought it would have been under government control which is an honest mindset and not fraudulent in intent, (3) using Warren's analogy, a bank teller who is accidentally short $20 in her drawer at the end of her shift would certainly NOT be fired (I know, I was a bank teller) but a bank teller who DELIBERATELY AND KNOWINGLY STEALS $20 from the drawer, and it can be proven, would be fired. Doing something with the INTENT to commit fraud and the INTENT to DECEIVE is very different than doing something with no ill will behind the intent, hence why no charges were brought against Clinton; her intent was, simply, to have more control over the security of her server which included her private emails, probably because she did not trust the security of the government servers. She could have (probably should have) thrown the government servers under the bus by indicating how BAD their security is, but she didn't choose to highlight that fact in public. But, nevertheless, the FBI (the ones WITH the bad security on their servers, pot calling kettle black) determined that there was no bad intent, no criminal intent, no deliberate coverup of anything, no "deal" was cut because that's just a STUPID allegation leveled by people with ZERO knowledge of law.

No, not even in Benghazi since she did not send EMAILS re Benghazi and SHE DID NOT CONTROL THE REPUBLICAN-CONTROLLED BUDGET.

[allegro]

The reddit thing is obviously from Republicans.

"Leaving Iraq in chaos."

President George W Bush made an agreement with Iraq in 2008 to withdraw our troops by the end of 2011 and Pres. Obama merely carried out that Act, per agreement. But Trump fans are blaming Clinton for it. There are several other dumb items on that list just like that, either bullshit, blaming her for shit that is Obama's fault, or blaming her for shit that is somebody else's fault. The Iraqi people and government WANTED US OUT, they didn't want to be OCCUPIED by an Imperialist government (U.S.). See also this. Never mind that we wouldn't have this problem had Bush not invaded Iraq in the first place.

Sullivan, Aug. 11: It was President Bush who set the withdrawal date for Americans from Iraq, not President Obama. President Bush signed an agreement that required us to be out by the end of 2011. The Obama administration urged [Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki] to approve our leaving a residual force behind. But Prime Minister Maliki … made it clear that he could not get the Iraqi parliament to do that. Not even for five- or ten-thousand troops.

Here are the responsibilities of the U.S. Secretary of State.

This one on the list:

"You mean that old video of me laughing as I explain how I got the charges against that child rapist dropped by blaming the young girl for liking older men and fantasizing about them. Even though I knew the guy was guilty"

THE GUY PLEAD GUILTY. READ THE FUCKING FACT CHECK.

[allegate]

Did you know that there was no racism before Obama? Damn him.

[Deepvoid]

Did you know that there was no racism before Obama? Damn him.

She just announced her resignation.

[implanted_microchip]

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/b2f...5-ae461809b9c3

I could get used to these happening with every candidate

[theimage13]

Did you know that there was no racism before Obama? Damn him.

"“If you’re black and you haven’t been successful in the last 50 years, it’s your own fault. You’ve had every opportunity, it was given to you,” she said.

“You’ve had the same schools everybody else went to. You had benefits to go to college that white kids didn’t have. You had all the advantages and didn’t take advantage of it. It’s not our fault, certainly.”

Holy fucking shit. I'm about the most passive person you can find but I want to punch her in the mouth. And then take her ass out of her high income school district and show her where a very large portion of the black community goes to school. Because spoiler alert: they're not the same schools that the well-off, or even modestly well-to-do white kids are going. Sure, sometimes they are. But come visit where I live. Go to the suburban, 95% white schools. Then go to the "same" schools one district over, where most of the students are black. Tell me that the quality of education in those "same" schools is actually equal. Tell me that the opportunities the students are given are the "same".

Wait, I'm sorry. Reading that back, it's all so obvious. The black families have all the same opportunities. All they need to do is just take new higher paying jobs, buy bigger and drastically more expensive houses in the better school districts, and send their kids there instead. Duh. Problem solved! It's so simple!

I'm so glad this ass clown resigned from her insignificant little post.

(Sorry. I know I'm veering off topic, but that really rubbed me the wrong way.)

[aggroculture]

Gary Johnson sounds like your typical Republican dick: http://www.alternet.org/election-201...t-wing-radical
https://thinkprogress.org/the-myth-o...fe6#.ksn324u04

[Mantra]

The only people who downplay this issue the way you just did are people who have no understanding of InfoSec as it concerns military/government controls. Ask anyone who has been involved in government InfoSec and see if they feel this is a non-issue on par with simple jaywalking. Every single one will tell you how even much smaller offenses would end their careers at a minimum.

It's true: I have no understanding of InfoSec as it concerns military/government controls. I don't know why I would, given that it has nothing to do with my life, and I'm pretty sure that 99.99% of the country knows just as much as I do. But if certain people feel that this fairly esoteric subject matter needs to be taken seriously as a point of discussion in this election, those people are going to have to explain WHY IT FUCKING MATTERS in ways that translate and make sense to regular folks. And so far, I've yet to see that happen.

I feel like your response mostly just doubles down on the argument that she mishandled the situation, which I guess I have no reason to doubt. But mishandling something simply indicates a lack of skill or expertise in that area. It's not an ethical failure, it's a technical failure. Allegro basically summed it up when she said, "Doing something with the INTENT to commit fraud and the INTENT to DECEIVE is very different than doing something with no ill will behind the intent."

If the response to her email situation was like "Okay, this isn't right, someone get this lady a top notch infosec expert to manage her shit, ASAP" I would understand. But instead people are like "Do you see how CORRUPT and WRONG and IMMORAL she was with her email account!?!!?" Which just don't make sense to me, because this doesn't really strike me as some serious moral/ethical problem where we need to discuss her values and character and whatnot.

[Dra508]

Jimmy Carter in 1976 was the last Democratic presidential candidate to carry Texas.

True. I was actually thinking in-state. You know like the last great politician, Tip O'Neill said "all politics is local".

[GulDukat]

I'm gonna miss this guy. Wish he could run for a third term.

[Mantra]

I'm gonna miss this guy. Wish he could run for a third term.

You're in luck, I was listening to some random AM radio channel a few months back while driving cross country and the host assured us all that Obama is planning to declare marshal law and suspend the upcoming election, so there you go. Obama ain't going nowhere.

[allegro]

I'm gonna miss this guy. Wish he could run for a third term.

Oh man that is awesome, I've never seen that, thanks for posting it.

[allegro]

Hillary Clinton on "Between Two Ferns"

http://www.motherjones.com/media/201...erns-interview

[Jinsai]

Hillary Clinton on "Between Two Ferns"

http://www.motherjones.com/media/201...erns-interview

My friend, who is a conspiracy theorist, was rejoicing in how this totally skewered Clinton and dragged her through the coals.

I responded to tell him that these are comedic scripted interviews, and that the script was totally approved by both parties beforehand. It was intended to make her seem more approachable and light-hearted; more appealing to younger voters. It was meant to show that she could take a joke.

He responded by saying "Oh man, if this was approved by her handlers, they just fucked up big time." What?! You believe every fucking conspiracy in the book, every single one. You think 9/11 was an inside job, you think the videos of people crying outside of disasters are crisis actors, you think terrorists are US plants, you think everyone who disagrees is an illuminati shill or a "useful idiot," but you don't believe my little conspiracy theory here? That a comedian and a presidential candidate that he supports made light-hearted fun of her controversies to endear her to a younger crowd that's been overblown with the concept that she's stiff and inhuman?

Did he really think that she went into that interview blind, knowing that she was about to spar with an edgy comedian, and he didn't even whip out a Monica joke?

[telee.kom]

I mean the video is really funny, but I'm not sure that "Hillary is more lighthearted" is what I would take away from this. I know this video works because she's playing the straight man, but really, she's just doing her usual "is she a robot or not" self.

[allegro]

I think she was herself, and showed a funny side which is a dry wit but it's still funny. I think she did a great job. I am not sure this is intended to appeal to a younger demographic (Zach Galifianakis is 46); I think she was asked, said yes, could reach a wider demographic and show that she isn't John Kasich ("oh my God, get the confetti out of my hair!!!"). It shows that she is aware of these conspiracy attitudes and isn't at home crying in her coffee, but isn't the whole premise of the show poking fun at that shit with sarcasm?

[DigitalChaos]

[Jinsai]

that was actually kind of disturbing

[allegro]

that was actually kind of disturbing

Heh, obviously the implication was that if he was allowed to be included in the debate, he ultimately would not be allowed to SAY ANYTHING (but his mere presence would send a message of inclusion).

[DigitalChaos]

The guy has the goofy grandpa thing going on. It was uncomfortable to watch, for sure. I sometimes wonder if he is partially autistic. It makes me cringe, but at least his "gaffes" (is this even a gaffe?) are innocent. Not so for the R & D candidates.

[allegro]

Yeah, he's kinda Dan Quayle.

[Deepvoid]

Ted Cruz has formally endorsed Donald Trump. Didn't see this one coming.

[implanted_microchip]

Ted Cruz has formally endorsed Donald Trump. Didn't see this one coming.

"I call him 'Lyin' Ted'"