The Interview

[DigitalChaos]

I think comparing his stance on this issue to the whole Bengazi debacle is an insane partisan distraction, and it could only be employed by people disinterested with resolving the current situation, which is already insane enough without the inclusion of political Buzz words. If you want to compare/contrast his treatment of this issue with the "innocence of muslims" video, why not wait until later. There will be plenty of time for that in the future.

Right now, let's just be glad he's siding with free expression, and telling Sony to harden up and release the movie. Let's have a bipartisan Christmassy moment where we all join hands and agree to getting behind that

Uh, because of the potential for future situations. And because it gives insight into the current situation. You are completely hung up on the anti-Obama angle from the article that you aren't able to extrapolate the many possibilities. There is nothing partisan in what I am talking about in the last few posts.

[Jinsai]

Uh, because of the potential for future situations. You are completely hung up on the anti-Obama angle from the article that you aren't able to extrapolate the many possibilities. There is nothing partisan in what I am talking about in the last few posts.

If I'm misunderstanding then I apologize... let's extract the issue about Bengazi for sake of clarity. What is it about his current stance regarding the issue of this movie that you disagree with?

How would you have preferred he respond?

[DigitalChaos]

If I'm misunderstanding then I apologize... let's extract the issue about Bengazi for sake of clarity. What is it about his current stance regarding the issue of this movie that you disagree with?

Nothing. Obama's comments were great.

Thinking about this not only looks into the future when this kind of thing is likely to happen again, but also can point to reasoning behind the current situation. It feels like we are covering a lot of new ground here. Lots of unknowns. Lots of things that are hard to look at through a lens of historical precedent.

I'm just wondering how this situation would look if it was anyone but NK. What would the implications be for the country? Would we be headed into another war? Would our government had taken a more softened angle? Etc.

[Jinsai]

I'm just wondering how this situation would look if it was anyone but NK.

The only reason NK has been allowed to operate this way for so long is because they can do so under the protection of China, and America is afraid to touch that issue.

If you want a real hot button issue when it comes to American diplomacy, we are owned by China, and that's why we're swatting away death threats from North Korea.

[DigitalChaos]

The only reason NK has been allowed to operate this way for so long is because they can do so under the protection of China, and America is afraid to touch that issue.

If you want a real hot button issue when it comes to American diplomacy, we are owned by China, and that's why we're swatting away death threats from North Korea.

Yet another reason I am really curious what a "proportional response" looks like. I had actually wondered if China helped at all with the hack. China and NK relations sound fairly strained lately. I recall China saying they wouldn't support/defend something NK was getting into recently.

So much about this is fascinating and frightening to think about. It could really turn into a pivotal point in our history... And Seth Rogan's name will be right there in the history books. w... t... f...

Someone should make a movie about this!

[Jinsai]

So much about this is fascinating and frightening to think about. It could really turn into a pivotal point in our history... And Seth Rogan's name will be right there in the history books. w... t... f...

maybe the most horrifying (and astonishing/fascinating) aspect to consider...

Relations between the two countries are "strained" only (I believe) on a diplomatic level. NK is still very obviously under China's thumb. If China cut them off, their bullshit would be ended within days by a UN resolution. China uses NK as wild card leverage, and "everyone" knows this. It's the elephant in the room... and it would be so strange if this stupid movie ultimately made that more apparent to a lot of people.

[tony.parente]

So the death scene got leaked on the internet yesterday.

http://bestshowsontvkasuwell.blogspo...interview.html

[Jinsai]

So the death scene got leaked on the internet yesterday.

http://bestshowsontvkasuwell.blogspo...interview.html

This has been floating around on the net since (shortly) before the movie got banned. I first saw this I think 4 days ago, alongside emails detailing what was censored to make it suitable for release, but we still haven't seen the uncensored clip. This is the highly toned down bit that Sony execs thought would be tame enough so it wouldn't be controversial.

The ironic part is that apparently they're so fucking pissed that this movie exists BECAUSE OF THIS SCENE... that they are going this nuts to stop us from seeing the movie at all... not realizing that the only SCENE THEY PRIMARILY DON'T WANT US TO SEE is now on loop on everyone's internet social media feeds... whereas, if you guys would have just shut up, nobody would have cared.

whoops.

And yeah, if that guy in South Korea with the balloons wants to drop a score of burned DVDs on North Korea, he doesn't need the whole movie to make the point clear that the rest of the world doesn't respect glorious leader. He just needs to burn discs with that scene.

[botley]

Yet another reason I am really curious what a "proportional response" looks like.

Proportional response is sometimes diplomatic speak for "retaliatory act of war." It is the same language that the Israeli government uses to justify its ongoing military strikes on Hamas targets in Palestine.

[DigitalChaos]

I... ... just... WHAT?!

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-30559136
- NK is calling for a joint investigation (whatever that is) OR ELSE!
- Sony is now saying they will release the video and the entire country simply got the entire situation wrong.

I mean, maybe an official sony rep saying they "had no further plans to release" the movie shortly after talking about releasing it on-demand was misinterpreted... but it seems like Sony is simply doing a 180. Kinda crazy it took THE PRESIDENT to convince a movie studio that they should actually release their Seth Rogan comedy.

If Sony comes out and tells everyone this was all a planned PR stunt... this might all become MORE sane.



More on this joint investigation request: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/21/wo...n-with-us.html
Seems NK insists they are innocent and wants to work with the US to prove it.

[Jinsai]

at this point, it's cute if Sony wants to back pedal and say shit like "Oh, you just got us wrong when we said that thing that was totally contradictory to what we're now saying..."

So many people are being fired at Sony right now I'm sure everyone's afraid to touch this issue. Oh, did you say that the movie will never come out on any format? You're fucking fired! Did you have anything to do with this fucking movie being made! Fired! Did you just tell some blogger that the movie will be coming out on SOME format? You're fucking fired too, probably, I don't know anymore, fuck!

The fucking president told you to harden up and release the fucking movie, so DO IT. You are no longer responsible for anything bad that happens here as a result of your shitty Seth Rogan comedy coming out. You can always have a cry and blame Obama.

But if Sony comes out and tells everyone this was all a planned PR stunt? Holy shit... people will be going to jail.

[Khrz]

- NK is calling for a joint investigation (whatever that is) OR ELSE!

NOW that's the North Korea I know...

[Hazekiah]

[botley]

China might not be propping up this regime for much longer.

[Fixer808]

I had actually wondered if China helped at all with the hack. China and NK relations sound fairly strained lately. I recall China saying they wouldn't support/defend something NK was getting into recently.

I'm not sure China would want anything to do with this NK venture. I can see their liaisons raising their eyebrows as the idea and the reasoning behind it were explained, and then saying "REALLY, guys? Hey, I think we're just gonna sit this one out, but you have fun."

So much about this is fascinating and frightening to think about. It could really turn into a pivotal point in our history... And Seth Rogan's name will be right there in the history books. w... t... f...

Hehehe, it just looks so WRONG...

[elevenism]

Slight drift, but movie theatres are open in the US on the 25th? That seems... slightly odd.

also, lots of Jewish folk go to the movies on Christmas day.

I am utterly torn on this issue.
I strongly doubt that North Korea has the capacity to strike the US. They threaten us pretty regularly and it barely makes the news. They were mobilized and prepared to attack the us last year when the US did those military drills with South Korea last spring. Nothing ever comes of it.

HOWEVER, i am sure that one or more random nutjobs WOULD have gone and killed people attending the movie, using the threat as an excuse.

I also feel that making a movie...silly or not...about assassinating ANY world leader is pretty fucking insensitive. As much as we might hate NK, that shit is just flat out mean. Like others said, what if a country made a movie about harming Obama or any other western leader? And remember, NK's leaders are worshiped as deities. I got interested in NK years ago because my brother's wife is Korean, and watched a lot of documentaries about the north. It is fucking NUTS.

This being said, it IS kind of fucked up to allow another country to dictate what movies we can see.

I GUESS the theater chains did the right thing. (and remember, the theaters said they wouldn't play it. they kind of forced sony's hand.)

I think the movie should at least be released on demand, and leaked at the VERY least.
@Jinsai , thanks for enlightening me on the China angle. I've always wondered why we don't shut NK's shit down, and i've never put 2 and 2 together.

The theory that NK had nothing to do with this is pretty damn intriguing too.

[marodi]

[Harry Seaward]

HOWEVER, i am sure that one or more random nutjobs WOULD have gone and killed people attending the movie, using the threat as an excuse.

Oh well. Not a reason to stop the release of a movie.

I also feel that making a movie...silly or not...about assassinating ANY world leader is pretty fucking insensitive. As much as we might hate NK, that shit is just flat out mean. Like others said, what if a country made a movie about harming Obama or any other western leader? And remember, NK's leaders are worshiped as deities. I got interested in NK years ago because my brother's wife is Korean, and watched a lot of documentaries about the north. It is fucking NUTS.

Oh well. Lots of movies are mean. It could be a 90 minute clip of Seth Rogen shitting in Kim Jong-Un's mouth and that would not make a tiny amount of difference. I've also heard people imply that if this movie were a smart, mature satire things would be different. No. The plot of the movie does not matter. Plus I don't think NK leaders are worshipped as much as the people have to pretend they worship them.

If some Asian comedians made a movie about killing Obama (you'll notice the premise of my hypothetical scenario doesn't make any sense, because Obama isn't a chillingly evil despot so nobody would make that movie), you know what the US government would do? Not watch it.

I GUESS the theater chains did the right thing. (and remember, the theaters said they wouldn't play it. they kind of forced sony's hand.)

Giving in to threats is never the right thing. Plus nobody forced Sony's hand. They're a media company, they could get the movie out if they wanted to.

[Harry Seaward]

North Korea accuses the US government of making the film and warms that "worse is coming," including an attack on America's "citadels." Welp.


http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/21/world/...html?hpt=hp_t1

[DigitalChaos]

North Korea accuses the US government of making the film and warms that "worse is coming," including an attack on America's "citadels." Welp.


http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/21/world/...html?hpt=hp_t1

Thing is, there is some truth to what NK is claiming when you look at the leaked emails.

Emails Reveal US State Department Influenced Sony’s “The Interview” so as to Encourage Assassination and Regime Change in North Korea
http://antiwar.com/blog/2014/12/18/s...the-interview/

Every time I think this story couldn't get any more insane, it does.

[Harry Seaward]

Thing is, there is some truth to what NK is claiming when you look at the leaked emails.

Emails Reveal US State Department Influenced Sony’s “The Interview” so as to Encourage Assassination and Regime Change in North Korea
http://antiwar.com/blog/2014/12/18/s...the-interview/

Every time I think this story couldn't get any more insane, it does.

Maybe I'm blind, but doesn't that article say the US Gov suggested the movie stay the way it is? Is there anything about the State Dept influencing the film, other than the title of the article? The way they phrased certainly implies that the Gov suggested changes.

[Deepvoid]

Maybe I'm blind, but doesn't that article say the US Gov suggested the movie stay the way it is? Is there anything about the State Dept influencing the film, other than the title of the article? The way they phrased certainly implies that the Gov suggested changes.

The title doesn't suggests changes. It states that US Gov influenced Sony so as to encourage the assassination and regime change.

It's exactly what the article says as well.

"The emails also reveal that a RAND corporation senior defense analyst who consulted on the film went beyond “blessing” and outright influenced the end of the film, encouraging the CEO of Sony Entertainment to leave the assassination scene as it was (in spite of misgivings at Sony) for the sake of encouraging North Koreans to actually assassinate Kim Jong-Un and depose his regime when the movie eventually leaks into that country."

Guessing Sony had an alternate ending they were preferring.

[Harry Seaward]

The title doesn't suggests changes. It states that US Gov influenced Sony so as to encourage the assassination and regime change.

It's exactly what the article says as well.

"The emails also reveal that a RAND corporation senior defense analyst who consulted on the film went beyond “blessing” and outright influenced the end of the film, encouraging the CEO of Sony Entertainment to leave the assassination scene as it was (in spite of misgivings at Sony) for the sake of encouraging North Koreans to actually assassinate Kim Jong-Un and depose his regime when the movie eventually leaks into that country."

Guessing Sony had an alternate ending they were preferring.

Well, ignoring the blog spam leads you back to the actual article from the site that dug up the emails: Source.

You'll notice their spin is slightly different. Still not seeing anything that says the US Gov influenced the film, beyond a thinktank watching it and saying "yeah this is cool." The only thing I've seen that posits the idea that the Gov did anything to change the film is that blog which just misinterprets the original article.

[DigitalChaos]

It would definitely be worth comparing the actual NK statement against the actual leaked emails, instead of the media rephrasing of them... those are frequently very jacked up and turn into the "telephone game."

NK statement: http://www.kcna.co.jp/item/2014/2014...1221-14ee.html

"The DPRK has clear evidence that the U.S. administration was deeply involved in the making of such dishonest reactionary movie.

It is said that the movie was conceived and produced according to the "guidelines" of the U.S. authorities who contended that such movies hurting the dignity of the DPRK supreme leadership and inciting terrorism against it would be used in an effective way as "propaganda against north Korea".


The U.S. Department of State's special human rights envoy went the lengths of urging the movie makers to keep all scenes insulting the dignity of the DPRK supreme leadership in the movie, saying it is needed to "vex the north Korean government".

The facts glaringly show that the U.S. is the chief culprit of terrorism as it has loudly called for combating terrorism everywhere in the world but schemed behind the scene to produce and distribute movies inciting it in various countries of the world."


If you normalize some of the typical NK hyperbole, what they are saying is fairly true. They are certainly over-representing the government involvement, but the fact that the government actually thinks this movie can help hurt NK is not something I would have ever assumed to be true until I read the emails.

[botley]

So — it looks like America DDoS'd the entire nation of North Korea to take out their Internet access.

[DigitalChaos]

And the possibility of this hurting the NK bubble of propaganda actually has potential. Apparently, black market DVDs have become a huge source of info about the world outside of NK and it is putting cracks in the NK control.

[DigitalChaos]

So — it looks like America DDoS'd the entire nation of North Korea to take out their Internet access.

THIS is their "proportional response" ?!
Because the playbook of "what would 4chan do?" wasn't enough for just NK, the US has to get in on that action too.

Some tech background: Doing this to NK is pretty trivial. They have a very small pipe to the outside. In fact, simply transferring the huge Sonly leak would have destroyed their pipe... which is why the hackers were very likely outside of the country and are not being remotely impacted by this DDoS.

I am still not convinced NK actually perpetrated this.

[marodi]

Oh, Anonymous...

http://mic.com/articles/106998/you-m...s-to-anonymous

[Space Suicide]

http://news.sky.com/story/1396088/no...he-white-house

Guess this movie was also a good reason for NK to start shit with the US.

[Khrz]

I am still not convinced NK actually perpetrated this.

And I'm not convinced the DDOS attack has anything to do with US services.

Or we're entering the golden age of civilization where nations, instead of destroying humans lives as retaliation, just shrug and troll the shit out of each other. I'd be okay with that.