The Dark Knight Rises

[orestes]

That, and he's Bruce Fucking Wayne.

[ltrandazzo]

Wrong. He's the Goddamn Batman.

[onthewall2983]

My guess is Wayne Manor (and by proxy, the Batcave) was left unattended to.

[DF118]

See, this is the one thing that properly took me out of the movie. He was stranded in some remote middle eastern(?) location. With no resources and no passport. Then he's back in Gotham again and chatting away to Selena Kyle like nothing happened.

I did enjoy this and I wasn't disappointed. I actually lucky enough to follow Knightfall week by week when I was a kid, and this is as close as I could imagine anyone coming to realising that story, arguably sans verisimilitude. But some of the plot holes were a bit glaring.

[orestes]

My guess is Wayne Manor (and by proxy, the Batcave) was left unattended to.

Wayne Manor was across the bridge, outside Gotham, so it is possible.

[Piko]

What about the sewers? He easily could've snuck in from the ocean to the sewers. They had the city and bridges on lock down, but not the surrounding water. Sewer leads somewhere...

[ltrandazzo]

The funny thing about this is that there are actual people who are getting all bent out of shape over A) Bruce returning to the city undetected and B) the gasoline bat. IT'S BATMAN. That's what he does. I guess that it's too much to expect people to enjoy the spectacle of seeing something cool like a flaming bat without questioning the logistics of how it all came to be. Let go and enjoy it.

[Conan The Barbarian]

I dont understand why anyone cant understand that the scene was for dramatic effect. Signifying the return of the hero. Just use your imagination to fill in the gaps between the time.

[peter]

How did Batman survive the atom bomb, or how did he get away from the blast radius when it showed him in The Bat with 5 seconds to go on the timer? Also, the publics perception was that "Batman" died in the bomb blast. Why does Bruce Wayne get a funeral as well/how did he die in the public eye?

On that note, how in hell was Batman able to drag that unstable nuke all through Gotham, bumping into buildings like an oversized wrecking ball, without it going off?

[Fred]

The funny thing about this is that there are actual people who are getting all bent out of shape over A) Bruce returning to the city undetected and B) the gasoline bat. IT'S BATMAN. That's what he does. I guess that it's too much to expect people to enjoy the spectacle of seeing something cool like a flaming bat without questioning the logistics of how it all came to be. Let go and enjoy it.

IMO, far too many people play film critics these days. This is exactly the same as when "Prometheus" got slagged because of its "lack of realism." I've gone apeshit on several people who've complained about it, telling them straight up that if they think the films of today suck, they can thank themselves for making the studios turn to bloated unoriginal shit like "Avatar." Shut the fuck up, lean back and be entertained. I fear this is an ongoing trend, though; in the old days, a good story would suffice. Now we need 3D and IMAX to suspend our disbelief. It's pathetic.

Batman stories have to feature leaps of logic, otherwise, it's not the fucking Batman. The premise in itself is completely unrealistic. Why someone would buy into the premise of a billionaire playboy turning into a masked vigilante with almost superhuman strength and perception, only to criticize moments like the appearance of the flaming bat is beyond me.

[Corvus T. Cosmonaut]

On that note, how in hell was Batman able to drag that unstable nuke all through Gotham, bumping into buildings like an oversized wrecking ball, without it going off?

Of course actually a reactor can't just become a nuclear bomb, as they require very specific and precise engineering. Smashing the real thing into buildings would probably be a good way to deactivate it.

words

Honestly, guy, and I'll put this as lightly as I can: shut the fuck up. There's a big fucking difference between demanding sense and internal consistency in a film's narrative and plotting and demanding that the entertainment be outfitted with 3-D or whatever premium-ticket feature. The people complaining about the shittiness of today's movies aren't responsible for Avatar—seriously, what the hell?—because they're probably including it in their complaint (though at the very least I think we can give Cameron credit on that one for not (at that point) turning out another sequel or cannibalizing some already-popular source material).

[Deadpool]

I thought Bane's whole image was completely ruined by essentially making the end seem that he wasn't this brilliant master-mind after all, he was just following Talia. It probably could have been worth while if not for Talia only driving a truck for like 5 minutes afterwards and dying without doing much of anything.

I understand what you mean, but I didn't quite get the feeling that Bane was "just following Talia." Rather, it seemed to me that she she was just more personally motivated to conquer Gotham City, and perhaps came to Bane with the idea, but not the plan - or at least not all of it. Even if, at the end of the day, she was the true leader, a coup on that scale is something I imagine as a collaborative scheme between them. It was still Bane who executed most of the plan.

One thing I was trying to figure out my 2nd time was how much Bane had told his underlings about his relationship with Miranda/Talia - such as when she enters the Wayne Enterprises board room and he's there waiting. I got the vibe that it was something just between the 2 of them, like when Bane says towards the end "Bring her to me." The whole reveal definitely does something to undermine Bane, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that it removes all credit from him. He presents himself as a very intelligent, charismatic villain throughout the movie, and he would have to be, even if he was just an avatar for Talia... which I don't think he was.

I agree that Talia is in too little of the movie to make a real impact, but I appreciate her place in the story if only for the way she colors Bane's character. One of my favorite moments of the entire film is Bane's reaction to her flashback ("he was my protector") - Tom Hardy's tears are so believable, even though everything up to this point has portrayed him as a monster. I love Ra's and I love The Joker in the Nolan films, but there's no equivalent scene for either of those characters in Begins or Dark Knight, with the possible exception of Ra's/Ducard recalling the loss of his lover - which I don't find nearly as powerful (but I don't think it's supposed to be since he's still an ally at that point.)

Potentially stupid question: how did Bane know that Batman was Bruce Wayne?

[DF118]

Potentially stupid question: how did Bane know that Batman was Bruce Wayne?

I took from it that he learned though his affiliation with the League of Shadows. In Knightfall he worked it out, just by basically being a smart-arse. That would have worked okay here, but John Blake got in there first, with the smart-arsery.

I know that a lot's been said about the audability and intelligibility of Bane's voice in Rising, but really, did anyone find that it wasn't just him that was hard to hear? A lot of the characters seemed to be either muffled, or drowned out by the soundtrack. My wife and I couldn't work out if this was because the sound mixing in the cinema was fucked, or if it was just the movie. We weren't the only ones to be pissed off in the theatre by this, so I suspect it was the sound system...

Also, how does Bane eat?

[Fixer808]

Also, how does Bane eat?

Quickly.

Also this. I question some of the numbers though, like for the batarangs, he makes the damn things in his spare time (and maybe goes back to collect them when he's done):

[ImTheWiseJanitor]

The world would be a better place if every person who made that much money became Batman.

[Conan The Barbarian]

Got back from the Imax. Cannot wait for this blu ray.

[koz-ivan]

IMO, far too many people play film critics these days. This is exactly the same as when "Prometheus" got slagged because of its "lack of realism." I've gone apeshit on several people who've complained about it, telling them straight up that if they think the films of today suck, they can thank themselves for making the studios turn to bloated unoriginal shit like "Avatar." Shut the fuck up, lean back and be entertained. I fear this is an ongoing trend, though; in the old days, a good story would suffice. Now we need 3D and IMAX to suspend our disbelief. It's pathetic.

i'm not sure the dark knight rises thread is really the place to call something like "avatar" unoriginal, there's what thousands of batman stories out there? and this is the 3rd part of a trilogy and the seventh batman film in the last 20 years or so...

Batman stories have to feature leaps of logic, otherwise, it's not the fucking Batman. The premise in itself is completely unrealistic. Why someone would buy into the premise of a billionaire playboy turning into a masked vigilante with almost superhuman strength and perception, only to criticize moments like the appearance of the flaming bat is beyond me.

the various "leaps of logic" never bothered me, in all honesty it never even occurred to me that the batman would have difficulty getting into and out of gotham. in hindsight the burning bat would have required some time and planning - but batman has always been a sneaky bastard, capable of using stealth and secrecy to great effect.

of the various leaps, the one i had the most problems with was the setup / intro, the cia just grabs a few random masked guys, never checks them out and just puts them on their plane, which is then crashed in a fairly implausible manner, and apparently was meant to look like a "normal" plane crash.

all that being said, rises is not the crown jewel of the batman franchise, or even this trilogy. as a film it does not hold up well it felt like a great disappointment.

- bane - the voiceover work was terrible, the voice was just over the top and silly, given that so much of what bane was up was spoken - it was even more glaring. not the worst batman villan we've seen on the big screen (see the riddler, mr freeze or b&r's version of bane) but still danny devito's penguin managed to be less silly than this incarnation of bane. anyone stepping into the role of batman badguy had their work cut out for them, returns' joker & two face were brilliant. hardy may have brought good physicality to the bane role, but it was also poorly fleshed out and executed. though clearly not to the extent of the b&r version, he still felt more like a pawn and his plans seemed rather muddy.

- the batman and bruce wayne - it didn't seem like we saw enough of either these roles, alot of scenes didn't seem to involve them at all.

- gotham under siege - this flies in the face of the last point, but i never really got a feel for what bane's gotham was like or what the logistics there were. maybe not enough looting and rioting. i did like seeing the batmobiles re-purposed back to their origins as military vehicles and scarecrow as the judge in the kangaroo court.

---

the good parts

- catwoman - was as perfectly executed as possible a good foil for both bruce and the bat, independently capable, and could work with batman but not feel like the sous chef or robin role. all of her scenes were great, morally grey, and she did have her own plans, intelligence and agenda.

- speaking of "robin" this story arc was also well executed. his scene on the bridge was great, he could fill "robin's" shoes without having to resort to a yellow cape. well done.

[Leman Russ]

- speaking of "robin" this story arc was also well executed. his scene on the bridge was great, he could fill "robin's" shoes without having to resort to a yellow cape. well done.

I sincerely hope they don't even go the Robin route with any future films. I would much rather see the movie be JGL donning the Bat suit and becoming the next Batman, which is honestly what I took from the ending of the film. Call the next movie "The Dark Knight Returns" or something, and show the continuation of the Batman legacy.

IMO, that'd be much more entertaining than a Robin movie, and would segue quite nicely into any proposed JLA movie down the line.

[kdrcraig]

I sincerely hope they don't even go the Robin route with any future films. I would much rather see the movie be JGL donning the Bat suit and becoming the next Batman, which is honestly what I took from the ending of the film. Call the next movie "The Dark Knight Returns" or something, and show the continuation of the Batman legacy.

IMO, that'd be much more entertaining than a Robin movie, and would segue quite nicely into any proposed JLA movie down the line.

I'd rather them not do any more movies with this version of the Batman story. It's finished as far as I'm concerned, I don't take anything that happened with JGL at the end to mean they plan on doing another movie with him in the lead, it was just a bad ass way to finish the trilogy. Maybe they'll do it without Nolan cause as far as I know he said this is his last Batman movie. Not to say they can't continue on without him or reboot it, my money's on a reboot.

[onthewall2983]

If they do reboot it, I hope they consider doing it for television instead of another movie franchise.

[Conan The Barbarian]

That would be horrible as you know it will end up on the cw. And that network sucks.

[wight rabbit]

Edit: Retracted to avoid stating the obvious.

[frankie teardrop]

The funny thing about this is that there are actual people who are getting all bent out of shape over A) Bruce returning to the city undetected and B) the gasoline bat. IT'S BATMAN. That's what he does. I guess that it's too much to expect people to enjoy the spectacle of seeing something cool like a flaming bat without questioning the logistics of how it all came to be. Let go and enjoy it.

yeah i don't understand all this hulaballoo about getting batman back to gotham. wayne manor is outside of gotham proper, in a suburb akin to westchester, and i'm sure there's all kinds of tunnels/gadgets to get him back to the city undetected. i bet there's a tunnel or two that bane isn't aware of.

as for getting back from the prison location, we can expect to see a scene of bruce hitting up a friend and/or western union on the dvd release.

[Leman Russ]

I'd rather them not do any more movies with this version of the Batman story. It's finished as far as I'm concerned, I don't take anything that happened with JGL at the end to mean they plan on doing another movie with him in the lead, it was just a bad ass way to finish the trilogy. Maybe they'll do it without Nolan cause as far as I know he said this is his last Batman movie. Not to say they can't continue on without him or reboot it, my money's on a reboot.

Agreed, it was a bad ass way to finish the trilogy, and Nolan said it was his last. So WB can either quickly reboot the series, or continue in the same universe. With Man of Steel coming out next year, and a proposed JLA "soon", I can't see trying to reboot Batman at the same time. Especially considering how well received Nolan's trilogy has been. I just think of how everyone I know reacted to Amazing Spiderman: didn't we see this movie already, and it was better? I feel rebooting Batman again would suffer the same fate.

And showing Blake find the Batcave at the end of TDKR was kind of pointless unless you're going to continue the story with him at the center. It'd be like having Sam Jackson show up in all the movies leading up to The Avengers, and then not having Sam Jackson be in The Avengers.

[Conan The Barbarian]

I was wondering, do you think Robin would mask his voice like Bruce did? I could imagine him going up to gordon and talking to him in his normal voice and gordon asking. "Blake? What the fuck are you doing?"

[Fixer808]

"Uuuh... Halloween costume."

[Space Suicide]

Where The Joker Might Have Been During Blackgate Prison Breakout

[onthewall2983]

I maintain my position he was offed as revenge for the ferry takeover.

[orestes]

I laughed.



Also, if this isn't made of win then I don't know what is.

[Conan The Barbarian]

Holy shit on the animated series pics.